Tangled (formerly Rapunzel) Discussion - Part II

All topics relating to Disney-branded content.

Do you like the new title change?

Yes
4
3%
No
50
34%
It's not that bad/I'm used to it by now
45
31%
I hate it with a passion
28
19%
I love it
1
1%
I don't care either way
18
12%
 
Total votes: 146

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Disney Duster
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Tangled

Post by Disney Duster »

sotiris2006 wrote:Floyd Norman and a cardboard clip-art version of Rapunzel.

Image
Thanks. Now THAT'S a good costume. It's not just the 2-D, there's something different, and better, about it here.

Oh, and as for the music - the last D23 issue talking about Rapunzel officially told us Alan Menken was doing 60's rock. We have not gotten any official word about any change in the music.

I suppose they could have asked Menken to write some new songs that are more 70's country rock, but not get rid of any old songs they already started animating so long ago.

But if they did change the music like that, this certainly isn't Rapunzel anymore, it's awful and horrible, and the people that changed it are too, and should be stopped.
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Post by Polizzi »

At last. Now we finally know what kind of music that Alan Menken has composed for Disney's, "Rapunzel (Tangled)," 60's rock. Thanks for the update, now we know.
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Post by Margos »

Polizzi wrote:I want to apologize for saying this against Disney's, "Home on the Range," but here it goes: the songs are not bad, especially Slim's yodel song which is kind of annoying, but the whole movie is just terrible. But I can tell you this, it reminds me of a fairy tale that involves four animals: a horse, a dog, a cat, and a rooster. These four animals decided to live on their own lives, and decided to scare off the crooks that live in a house to live on their own. When one of the crooks came in to the house to see who lives in the house, the crook got attacked by the four animals. Disney should have adapt that fairy tale that I wish I know what it is called, instead of the song, "Home on the Range."
I'm pretty sure you're thinking of "The Four Musicians of Bremen." I've never read it, but look it up on YouTube. Before there was a Disney Animation Studio, Walt Disney did adapt this fairy tale.
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Post by Polizzi »

Margos wrote:
Polizzi wrote:I want to apologize for saying this against Disney's, "Home on the Range," but here it goes: the songs are not bad, especially Slim's yodel song which is kind of annoying, but the whole movie is just terrible. But I can tell you this, it reminds me of a fairy tale that involves four animals: a horse, a dog, a cat, and a rooster. These four animals decided to live on their own lives, and decided to scare off the crooks that live in a house to live on their own. When one of the crooks came in to the house to see who lives in the house, the crook got attacked by the four animals. Disney should have adapt that fairy tale that I wish I know what it is called, instead of the song, "Home on the Range."
I'm pretty sure you're thinking of "The Four Musicians of Bremen." I've never read it, but look it up on YouTube. Before there was a Disney Animation Studio, Walt Disney did adapt this fairy tale.
So that is the name of the fairy tale, but I did not know that Walt Disney already adapted it. Then I should say that Disney's, "Home on the Range," could have been a remake, but too late, but they did well. Anyways, I shall look it up on Youtube. By the way, here is a little treat for you with my thanks:

Flynn Rider: Let down your ha...
(Rapunzel's hair falls on top of Flynn Rider.)
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Post by robster16 »

here's a more high-res version of the first teaser image:

Image
Last edited by robster16 on Thu May 13, 2010 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by robster16 »

told ya!
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Post by DisneyFan09 »

What a pity that we couldn't actually see those trailers.
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Post by Marianne81 »

It's good to finally see a hi-res photo. It looks amazing!! But all this discussion abiut the music leaves me confused and disappointed if it happens to be true. 60s or 70's rock? What are they thinking? Is this all a part of their attempt to appeal to boys. I'm sorry, but The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Beauty and th Beast, etc were all successful, and it's not as if only girls went to see those films. Maybe it's becasuse Princess and the Frog didn't do as well as they wanted, so now they're in a state of panic. But based on the look of this photo, will 60's rock even fit? It seems ridiculous.

I was so looking forward to the music in this film for the following reasons:

1. Alan Menken as composer and Glenn Slater as lyricist, as they worked on the news songs from The Little Mermaid on Broadway (which are beautiful). I was anticipating music akin to that show and Enchanted.

2. Mandy Moore and Zachary Levi as the voices. Both ae great singers and quite capable of singing music in broadway style. At least I know Moore can. Just listen to her rendition of "Secret Love."

Am I now going to be disapointed in a film I have been looking forward to for so long? I apologize for the rant, I hope we hear some more specifics soon.
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Post by robster16 »

I really wish eveyone would calm down regarding the music in the movie? All we have so far are rumors! No confirmed reports or clips of the music in the film. Untill we have those we really can't make any judgement on the quality of the music.

I agree, I liked the concept of the haunting song between Gothel and Rapunzel, but if it didn't fit in the new movie, then it simply didn't fit. I'm not freaking out about it yet. I have confidence in Alan Menken's abilities.

Also, some people are completely misinterepreting earlier reports and forgetting MAJOR details. Menken's statements that were made regarding the music mentioned 60's and 70's rock yes, BUT as major inspiration he mentioned singer songwriters like Cat Stevens and Joni Mitchell. Both are rock artists but with a very acoustic, melodic approach.

I for one am VERY thrilled by that prospect of guitar fueled singer/songwriter songs with great lyrics and awesome melodies.

Furthermore, Mandy Moore twittered a few months ago that she was recording music for Tangled with a huge orchestra. So I'm sure there will still be sweeping strings, horn sections etc.

When I think of 60's and 70's rock I think of Simon and Garfunkel's "Scarborough Fair" for instance. This version is sung by a girl. Just imagine a song as magical as this:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_45W-Lq7ftw&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_45W-Lq7ftw&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Just wait and be patient untill we hear more about the soundtrack and the songs on it. There's really no way we can make any judgements on that yet!
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Post by Elladorine »

robster16 wrote:Also, some people are completely misinterepreting earlier reports and forgetting MAJOR details. Menken's statements that were made regarding the music mentioned 60's and 70's rock yes, BUT as major inspiration he mentioned singer songwriters like Cat Stevens and Joni Mitchell. Both are rock artists but with a very acoustic, melodic approach.

I for one am VERY thrilled by that prospect of guitar fueled singer/songwriter songs with great lyrics and awesome melodies.

. . .

When I think of 60's and 70's rock I think of Simon and Garfunkel's "Scarborough Fair" for instance.
That's exactly what I've had in mind. :)
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Post by Edthehyena »

Ok, just to bring a little peace to our Poor Unfortunate Souls, maybe i should re-tell more precisely all i tried to say before, chronologically, even if it's all about pieces and memories and i'm sure of nothing, i have no official leaks at all, just a lot of my obsessionnal reading everywhere for a very long time...
We read somewhere that, from the very beginning, Menken, like 2 , 3 years ago or more, started workin on that soundtrack in a "Joni Mitchell" sound... guitar sound, 60-70 folk style... (60 or 70, sorry, i'm not sure, but just pick albums from the lady like "For the Roses" or "Hissing of Summer Lawns", it's just MY supposition... he even mentionned Stephen Stills rock, and sure, that last guy is cowboy type guy !)... Ok, all that was said even when Glean Keane was still in charge of the feature, and long even before we could simply a glimpse of the long haired girl's official lilac dress. Then we heard about the wonderful concept of "You are my Forever"... All i read on some threads, almost 6 monts ago i think, is that last song could be removed... I suppose it's because it was a little more too dramatic and intense for the new BOLT producers. The style of the whole music didn't change. It has always been "folk" and still is (and i think it's an original color for and original soundtrack). No matter the title of the ex or new songs, if that last song disappear or not, what is sure is that - at last i hope - we will have at least a "wish" song and a love song, and many others, funny or not, whatever... i trust Menken. Menken can do miracles even with strange management. He can mix all the styles, have a broadway jazz flavour, country, carribean, go from "friend like me" to "whole new world", from "a guy like you" to "out there", from "zero to hero" to "go the distance", from "under the sea" to "part of ur world"... or even deliver a gorgeous melancholic country song like "will the sun ever shine again" in a cow story, oh my, that song is so beautiful, listen to it again please ! If Rap sings a song like that watching by her window instead of a "beauty and the beast" ballad, i'll be in heaven. To sum up : lets' be trustful and wait for real new sounds and pictures..
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Post by Edthehyena »

Ok, just to bring a little peace to our Poor Unfortunate Souls, maybe i should re-tell more precisely all i tried to say before, chronologically, even if it's all about pieces and memories and i'm sure of nothing, i have no official leaks at all, just a lot of my obsessionnal reading everywhere for a very long time...
We read somewhere that, from the very beginning, Menken, like 2 , 3 years ago or more, started workin on that soundtrack in a "Joni Mitchell" sound... guitar sound, 60-70 folk style... (60 or 70, sorry, i'm not sure, but just pick albums from the lady like "For the Roses" or "Hissing of Summer Lawns", it's just MY supposition... he even mentionned Stephen Stills rock, and sure, that last guy is cowboy type guy !)... Ok, all that was said even when Glean Keane was still in charge of the feature, and long even before we could simply catch a glimpse of the long haired girl's official lilac dress. Then we heard about the wonderful concept of "You are my Forever"... All i read on some threads, almost 6 monts ago i think, is that last song could be removed... I suppose it's because it was a little more too dramatic and intense for the new BOLT producers. The style of the whole music didn't change. It has always been "folk" and still is (and i think it's an original color for and original soundtrack). No matter the title of the ex or new songs, if that last song disappear or not, what is sure is that - at last i hope - we will have at least a "wish" song and a love song, and many others, funny or not, whatever... i trust Menken. Menken can do miracles even with strange management. He can mix all the styles, have a broadway jazz flavour, country, carribean, go from "friend like me" to "whole new world", from "a guy like you" to "out there", from "zero to hero" to "go the distance", from "under the sea" to "part of ur world"... or even deliver a gorgeous melancholic country song like "will the sun ever shine again" in a cow story, oh my, that song is so beautiful, listen to it again please ! If Rap sings a song like that watching by her window instead of a "beauty and the beast" ballad, i'll be in heaven. To sum up : lets' be trustful and wait for real new sounds and pictures..
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Post by robster16 »

Here's more info, taken from that blog about the Tangled presentation in germany last week. The lecture was given by Leo Sanchez Barbosa. Earlier you already read the first part, the introduction of the presentation. Now it's time for the actual presentation which went into the characters of Flynn and Maximus, which are the two main characters Barbosa worked on. I will not be translating the full article, but try and get all the important pieces of information out of it and list them below. If you want to read the full report in german or try online translation services, then go to this link for the blog post:

http://esbinaca.wordpress.com/2010/05/1 ... re-teil-ii

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* Barbosa who is born in Barcelona, Spain has been working at Disney for a couple of years and was involved in projects like "Glago's Guest", "Bolt" and "Prep and Landing". He has been working on Rapunzel for over a year now.
* Barbosa's main work on Rapunzel is the characters of Flynn Rider and the horse Maximus, as well as Rapunzel's facial expressions.
* Barbosa worked together with character designer and animator Jin Kim on the design of Flynn. The many drawings Jin made were incorporated in his character design and model.
* A piece of art was shown where Flynn is sitting on Maximus all excited with Maximus looking less then thrilled. Another drawing shows Flynn and Rapunzel sitting side by side with him holding her hands
* As one of the many inspirations for the character of Flynn the actor and action hero "Eroll Flynn was used. He is also the reason of Flynn's name. The archetipal goodlooking guy.

Image Image

* A lot of inspiration has been taken from artists. For instance sculptures from Michaelangelor and Tim Bruckner to analyse body structures and the way light falls on them.
* Dreamworks artist Nathan Fowkes' blog also served as an inspiration: http://nathanfowkes.blogspot.com/
* Living celebrities that were an inspiration were soccer player David Beckham!
* Every so often the female Disney employees would be called together to ask them about their taste in men and what makes a man beautiful. They were often shown pictures of men and asked about their appeal.
* Other celebs that influenced the design of Flynn were Eric Bana, Jude Law and Brad Pitt who's headshots (based on lighting and shadowstructures really were very usefull).
* Photoshop was usefull to enhance shadows to be able to study their structures.
* Drappery of clothing on the human body was something they studied very closely as well.
* Even US president Obama was an example in terms of facial structures and posture.
* Other inspirational artists were Joseph Christian Leyendecker and sculptor Franz Xaver Messerschmidt. The last one is known for sculptures of faces with extreme facial expressions. Some of those ideas can be seen in the movie, for instance a shot where Flynn strongly squints his eyes or is extremely surprised.

Image

Image

* The modelling and creation of Maximus was also adressed. And like with Flynn pictures, drawings and sculptures of horses were very helpfull in his creation. Body structures of other animals like panthers were also studied.
* Barbosa demonstrated the use of the ZBrush technology how a model comes to life at Disney. Using a standard model of Flynn without a pose or expression on his face he showed how the brush can influence the mouth, eyes and body of the model to either soften or harden the look of the model and pose. They try to use the model to it's most extreme with the earlier mentioned extreme facial expressions before achieving his neutral look. You need to know how far you can go with a model untill you can finally be satisfied with it.
* Flynn's mouth is almost totally based on David Beckham's mouth. It was deemed both manly and sexy, which is something they were looking for in Flynn.
* Another technique is the "inside out" modelling. They create the model with his mouth wide open so they can get everything from structures inside the mouth to teeth etc and then work their way to the outside. They went into great detail to achieve a sense of reality.
* A funny anecdote was that Mattell has created some Rapunzel dolls in advance which were then used by the crew to act out certain poses and shots. Together with all the posters of Eric Bana and Brad Pitt on the walls this according to Barbosa was: „not good for the reputation, but I found my real me again“….
* Barbosa described the character of Maximus as very funny and cute. The girl at the presentation says she found him to look very powerfull, serious and strict in the models and drawings that were shown at the presentation. Which isn't weird when you think about the fact that the horse is the horse of the main guard.
* A lot of the designs and poses in drawings that were made by Jin Kim that were made during character development and influenced the design of the characters were eventually discarded because they didn't go with the vision the directors had for the characters.

* A lot of the techniques that they used have improved the work they can do in animation and those will be worked on in the future and even further improved. They will be using those in Disney's future projects, which he didn't talk about.

* At the end of the presentation was a Q&A session with the audience and the most important question was why the title of the project had been changed from "Rapunzel" to "Tangled". Barbosa didn't know why but he did say at Disney everyone still reffers to the movie as "Rapunzel", because that is what brought everyone together on this project and under which name they had been working on the movie for the past couple of years.

That's all about the presentation... Hope that gets you all excited as much as it does me!
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Post by robster16 »

During my research on the translation of that article posted above I came across these two designs on Jin Kim's blog, character designer for "Tangled". Which are clearly from the earlier, abandonned version of Rapunzel:

Image

Image
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Post by Marianne81 »

I really wish eveyone would calm down regarding the music in the movie? All we have so far are rumors! No confirmed reports or clips of the music in the film. Untill we have those we really can't make any judgement on the quality of the music.

I agree, I liked the concept of the haunting song between Gothel and Rapunzel, but if it didn't fit in the new movie, then it simply didn't fit. I'm not freaking out about it yet. I have confidence in Alan Menken's abilities.

Also, some people are completely misinterepreting earlier reports and forgetting MAJOR details. Menken's statements that were made regarding the music mentioned 60's and 70's rock yes, BUT as major inspiration he mentioned singer songwriters like Cat Stevens and Joni Mitchell. Both are rock artists but with a very acoustic, melodic approach.

I for one am VERY thrilled by that prospect of guitar fueled singer/songwriter songs with great lyrics and awesome melodies.

Furthermore, Mandy Moore twittered a few months ago that she was recording music for Tangled with a huge orchestra. So I'm sure there will still be sweeping strings, horn sections etc.
Menken can do miracles even with strange management. He can mix all the styles, have a broadway jazz flavour, country, carribean, go from "friend like me" to "whole new world", from "a guy like you" to "out there", from "zero to hero" to "go the distance", from "under the sea" to "part of ur world"... or even deliver a gorgeous melancholic country song like "will the sun ever shine again" in a cow story, oh my, that song is so beautiful, listen to it again please !
Thank you both so much. Hearing these insights has made me feel completely better. It did not occur to me to think of folk music/artists when one says 60s and 70s rock. And I trust Menken too. He does know how to mix genres. I think I just overreacted. Sorry :)
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

robster16 wrote:During my research on the translation of that article posted above I came across these two designs on Jin Kim's blog, character designer for "Tangled". Which are clearly from the earlier, abandonned version of Rapunzel:

Image

Image
Are we sure that the dog won't be in it? He looks so much like one of my dogs, I'd LOVE for him to be a Disney character!!! :p
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Post by Polizzi »

robster16 wrote:During my research on the translation of that article posted above I came across these two designs on Jin Kim's blog, character designer for "Tangled". Which are clearly from the earlier, abandonned version of Rapunzel:

Image

Image
That dog looks like Basil's dog from Disney's, "The Great Mouse Detective."
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Post by DisneyJedi »

Polizzi wrote:
robster16 wrote:During my research on the translation of that article posted above I came across these two designs on Jin Kim's blog, character designer for "Tangled". Which are clearly from the earlier, abandonned version of Rapunzel:

Image

Image
That dog looks like Basil's dog from Disney's, "The Great Mouse Detective."
Really? At first glance, I thought of that one dog from The Aristocats. :?
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Post by Scarred4life »

DisneyJedi wrote:Really? At first glance, I thought of that one dog from The Aristocats. :?
That's exactly what I thought.
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