The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part II

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KubrickFan
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Post by KubrickFan »

BelleGirl wrote: The reason why the song "If I never knew you" was cut from Pocahontas, was because the test audience seemed to become a bit impatient when watching the scene featuring this song, not because the song is weak (I think it isn't, by the way).

(And as for the general comment that Mel Gibson sang it badly: give the man a break, he was only an untrained amateur and he had to reach a real high note! :D )
That's exactly the reason. Even the animation of the scene was finished, which indicates the cut was made pretty late into production.
And as for Mel Gibson's singing voice, I was surprised to find out it was actually him. He sings pretty good, I think. Anyway, I have a bias for actors who try to sing, no matter how it sounds. It's always better than overdubbing.
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Post by Marce82 »

Ok ok...I admit it: it was wrong of me to bring into the topic the "blandness" or "strength" if the songs. I guess the real issue is whether they become the signature of the film. And in whether they automatically link to the film in collective consciousness.

Believe me, if I walk around asking people what film the song "Someday" belongs to, most people wont know. But everyone will know about "Can you feel the love tonight" or "a whole new world".

As for the visual style...im not saying that all Disney films should look the same. But they should "fit" with each other. Its kinda hard to explain.

And as far as ANIMATION goes...(and others have commented on this), it looks like TPATF has a little loony toones in it...I guess i dont think that belongs in disney films...maybe im too conservative.
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Post by Poody »

I was at Borders and they have a whole section for P&TF books now! :)
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Post by Just.A.Friend »

You can hear 30 seconds of each song of the entire soundtrack here: http://disneymusic.disney.go.com/albums ... dfrog.html
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Post by DARTH KNITE »

Marce, I agree with you completely. They simply don't look realistic enough. They're picking up with the animation style they left off with, when they should have gone back to their 90s style.

As far as the music goes, I lost ALL hope of that being any good when they brought in Newman. All his crap sounds the same, and even though he's not singing it (thank God), it's just all too lifeless and generic. Not a standout song in the batch. I really don't think this movie is gonna save them the way it could have. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
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John Lassetter Message

Post by not2foul »

Hello peoples, just wondering if anyone has seen Mr Lassetters video sent in email form?

It sounds like he and the studio are really genuinely excited about this movie, and are doing everything they can to promote it.

They also had a new trailer attached to it as well, and I'm now officially excited about this.

I truly hope this movie will be able to stand on its own, and not be seen as "formula copy" of past triumphs etc.

Anyway, looking forward so much to this, it does look special.
Just have to wait forever for it to be shown in Australia (Probably get it on dvd from the U.S. before it gets released to theatres here!!!!).

Take care!!!!!
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Post by Marce82 »

Ah....Darth Nite...

Glad to hear you agree with me, and that you understand what Im talking about. And yes, they should have gone back to their 90's style.

As for the music....Im not a Randy Newman fan either. And I agree that none really stand out. I gotta say I am liking "when we are human", but I think its more because I really like Bruno Campo's singing.

But where is the "show-stopper"? Where is the ballad? Will there be no romantic song in this film? It seems all the songs have a similar rythm...

Boy, where is Alan Menken when you need him?
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Post by pap64 »

Marce82 wrote:Ah....Darth Nite...

Glad to hear you agree with me, and that you understand what Im talking about. And yes, they should have gone back to their 90's style.

As for the music....Im not a Randy Newman fan either. And I agree that none really stand out. I gotta say I am liking "when we are human", but I think its more because I really like Bruno Campo's singing.

But where is the "show-stopper"? Where is the ballad? Will there be no romantic song in this film? It seems all the songs have a similar rythm...

Boy, where is Alan Menken when you need him?
I'm sorry, but it seems you weren't truly listening to the 30 second samples and just made assumptions in order to confirm your own beliefs and doubts about the film.

"Ma Belle Evangeline" WILL serve as the movie's ballad. Many stills of the film have Tiana and Naveen dancing in a romantic, so its very likely Ma Belle Evangeline will serve as the film's romantic tune.

The show stopper will definitely be "Dig a little deeper", considering it has a gospel choir (and footage of this song has Mama Odie performing against a huge choir of flamingos, if that doesn't scream show stopper nothing will).

I honestly don't know what you are talking about. The staples of the Disney soundtrack are present if the 30 second samples are to be believed. We have the theme song that represents the theme and story of the film (Down in New Orleans), the I want song that develops character and expresses a need (Almost There), the villain song (Friends on the other side and such), and the friends and sidekicks song (When we're human).

The difference is that its done by a different composer and a different musical style that fits the theme of the movie well.

I also find it amazing how some people are condemning this film for being too much like the 90s films (its trying too hard, the songs are unoriginal etc.), but others are damning it for not being true to the Disney formula ENOUGH (too Looney Tunes, too different, the style isn't true to the Disney style etc.).
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

Concept art!

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2009/ ... twork.html
(via disneyreport.com)

I received the email with the message from John Lasseter, but haven't yet read it yet, but I will sometime soon!

*edit*

Show Times for Tiana’s Showboat Jubilee
http://disneylandnewstoday.com/archives/5165
(via disneyreport.com)
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Post by CampbellzSoup »

They actually had a Tiana walking around the mall today lol AND on top of that they have a HUGE banner in the mall it was cool seeing so much promotion for it!
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Post by Kossage »

Marce82 wrote:Believe me, if I walk around asking people what film the song "Someday" belongs to, most people wont know. But everyone will know about "Can you feel the love tonight" or "a whole new world".
I think part of the reason for this is that Aladdin and The Lion King are seen as part of the Disney Renaissance whereas Pocahontas and The Hunchback of Notre Dame were never as popular as those two (at least over here). People would thus identify with the songs of the popular films whereas the tunes from the "less" popular films wouldn't be as widely recognized.

And for the record, I've enjoyed many of the Disney songs and score post-TLK. There are many "hidden" gems out there. :)
DARTH KNITE wrote:They simply don't look realistic enough. They're picking up with the animation style they left off with, when they should have gone back to their 90s style.
In my opinion the characters look realistic enough (and this is animation so I'm expecting exaggerated movements and such; it'd be bland if it didn't have at least some), and I actually enjoy how they're so vivacious (Facilier in particular looks like a villain I'll love to hate because of his mannerisms which are exaggerated and given more nuances depending on the scenes).

As much as I enjoy the "90's style", I think Disney should experiment with different styles and try new things every once in a while. All things considered the look of the film is quite pleasing to my eye, and I like how they're not making it the exact carbon copy of what has come before.
As far as the music goes, I lost ALL hope of that being any good when they brought in Newman. All his crap sounds the same, and even though he's not singing it (thank God), it's just all too lifeless and generic. Not a standout song in the batch. I really don't think this movie is gonna save them the way it could have. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
I admit that I'm not a big fan of Randy Newman because his songs and scores have often been bland. One of the few notable exceptions is Cats Don't Dance which actually had quite catchy and beautiful tunes (and I guess the score of CDD was superior to Newman's scores because it wasn't written by him but by another person xD).

However, I'm not quite sure how to feel about the OST yet, and those short clips don't really give too detailed a look on the album as a whole. The songs have potential, and I'm sure at least a couple of them will turn out to be good (the villain song is a good candidate), but the score will likely get the short end of the stick unless Newman manages to whip up something spectacular for this film. It'll be extremely interesting to hear how the overall music will sound like and if it'll be as positive a surprise as Menken's music for Enchanted.
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Post by Cordy_Biddle »

Randy Newman's music is all starting to run together for me, especially. It's always basically him croaking out some jazz ditty on a jangly piano. :roll: Find something different!
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Post by Poody »

CampbellzSoup wrote:They actually had a Tiana walking around the mall today lol AND on top of that they have a HUGE banner in the mall it was cool seeing so much promotion for it!
OMG did you take pics??!?!?!? LOL :lol:
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Post by Kram Nebuer »

not2foul wrote:Hello peoples, just wondering if anyone has seen Mr Lassetters video sent in email form?

It sounds like he and the studio are really genuinely excited about this movie, and are doing everything they can to promote it.

They also had a new trailer attached to it as well, and I'm now officially excited about this.
I agree!! They're really excited for the movie and I liked how he was sort of addressing us as Disney fans and not dumbing down the message to get regular Joe's excited about the movie. If it has the Lassetter seal of approval, I'm sure we will all be very happy with the result. He turned the Tinker Bell movie into something I didn't expect to love so much, so I'm sure this will be amazin!! :)

I didn't see a new trailer with the message. Did you mean there's a new trailer posted on the website?
blackcauldron85 wrote:Concept art!

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2009/ ... twork.html
(via disneyreport.com)

I received the email with the message from John Lasseter, but haven't yet read it yet, but I will sometime soon!
It actually leads to the concept art you just posted! There's also lots more than the ones posted in that blog.

I really like the concept art for the Mardi Gras floats! It looks like the directors wanted to give a nod to their past successes with an Aladdin and Little Mermaid float.

Here is the new concept art on the official Disney website:
http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/pri ... en_vidmsg1
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Post by Just.A.Friend »

Cordy_Biddle wrote:Randy Newman's music is all starting to run together for me, especially. It's always basically him croaking out some jazz ditty on a jangly piano. :roll: Find something different!
I completely agree..
I'm not a big Randy Newman fan. And from the small 30 second samples I've gotten to hear the music isn't any where near the greatness previous animated classics have had, for me. The 30 seconds of each song aren't something I should judge the entire soundtrack to, and I am not going to do that.

It sounds like from the samples however that the songs just don't have the mastery that Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid and The Lion King have, or even movies before that. I admit that Dig A Little Deeper sounds pretty nice, and I like the Prologue even though its only 15 seconds long or so.. but there doesn't seem to be any of the intense hits that the Renaissance movies have. And those movies still have atleast 2 each of those very well known and genuinely great songs.

It seems the songs have captured the New Orleans spirit, which is a good thing, but its like giving every single song that jazzy spirit was a little much. Aladdin did its part in capturing that arabian tune, but still had songs like A Whole New World without that tune which is probably the most well-known and one of the most loved songs of the movie. Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Lion King are the exact same way. I just wish that one song could be the "Whole New World" or "Beauty and the Beast" of the Princess and the Frog.. one of the greater and most beautiful songs of the movie that doesn't have to have the New Orleans sound to it.

Like I said though, I am not trying to judge the film or its music from these 30 seconds. I am very excited for the film no less, and will be buying the soundtrack as well. It just seemed that Princess and the Frog had such high expectations to live up to the acclaimed Disney animated classics...
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Post by CampbellzSoup »

Poody wrote:
CampbellzSoup wrote:They actually had a Tiana walking around the mall today lol AND on top of that they have a HUGE banner in the mall it was cool seeing so much promotion for it!
OMG did you take pics??!?!?!? LOL :lol:
Are you kidding me of course I did! I gotta upload them though.

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Post by PatrickvD »

Quite shocking to read how people are demanding 90s clones. Remember how in the late 90s Disney started cloning its own formula? Menken was part of that and although his music was consistently the best aspect of movies like Pocahontas, Hunchback and Hercules, Disney was quickly wearing out its own reinvention.

So yes, I understand people want his music back (and they'll get their wish next year) and I understand the apprehension towards Randy Newman but people need to stop acting as if The Princess and the Frog has interchangeable pop songs by Phil Collins inserted in every 10 minutes. Who said that because it's a musical it should therefore follow the Alan Menken formula?

There's not a love song? I'm pretty sure the firefly sings a lovesong as the prince and Tiana dance with eachother. How is that any different from Mrs Potts singing as Belle and the Beast dance or the entire Bella Notte scene from Lady & The Tramp? Was there a love song in Jungle Book? no. There were jazzy tunes though. I also don't recall Ariel and Eric singing to eachother.

It's very tiring to read these complaints from people who are mad because the movie isn't exactly the way they want it to be. And the songs aren't memorable? No one has heard full versions. And to me some of the songs sound close to existing Disney songs. Friends on the Other Side is instantly recognizable as the villain song, much like Poor Unfortuante Souls where the villain tricks the hero into a transformation. And how does When We're Human not sound like it came straight out of Jungle Book or The Aristocats?

I find the music refreshing and very fitting with the style and setting of 1920 New Orleans. Menken's music might not have reached this level of authenticity. He's much more broadway, something that in turn will be fitting to the fairytale world of Rapunzel.
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Post by ColorsOfTheWind »

PatrickvD wrote:No one has heard full versions.
Actually, I'm one of the few people who HAS listened to two full length songs from The Princess and the Frog (thanks to the D23 Expo) :P . The two songs were Dig a Little Deeper and Friends on the Other Side. I can say that Dig a Little Deeper is definitely the show-stopping song in this film. I think Newman has done a fantasic job with it because, in my opinion, it's just as great as many of the other show-stopping hits we've heard in the past AND it still fits really well with the 1920s New Orleans feel. Friends on the Other Side is the same: a great villain song that fits the time period and will still be quite memorable.

I'll admit that pretty much the only music I listen to is Disney music. I listen to everything from the classics like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Cinderella to more recent films, like Hercules and Hunchback of Notre Dame. I can easily see myself listening to Friends on the Other Side along with Poor Unfortunate Souls and Hellfire, and Dig a Little Deeper with Under the Sea. In fact, I've had them stuck in my head ever since listening to them at the Expo and I've been dying to listen to them again.

Give the music, and the film itself, a chance and don't write it off simply because the music is done by Randy Newman. I was very wary about it at first, too, until I heard the songs. Let's wait until seeing the entire movie before judging it so harshly :)
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Post by PatrickvD »

You're very lucky to have gotten a sneak peak. I can't wait to hear the songs.
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Post by bruno_wbt »

New Princess songs on The Princess and the Frog: Tiana and her Princess Friends

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1. Almost There (Performed by Tiana)
2. Happy Working Song (Performed by Giselle)
3. Beyond My Wildest Dreams (Performed by Ariel)
4. Down in New Orleans (Performed by Tiana)
5. I See a Princess (Performed by Belle)
6. Dare to Dream (Performed by Snow White)
7. I'm Happy (Performed by Cinderella)
8. Lesson Number One (Performed by Mulan)
9. Where Do I Go from Here (Performed by Pocahontas)
10. A Rose Is a Rose (Performed by Aurora)
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