Glen Keane News & Discussion

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Another article:

https://www.cbr.com/annecy-report-glen- ... -the-moon/

It turns out it was actually Glen Keane's idea to make the movie a musikal.

Also:

Even in CGI, however, Keane follows Michelangelo's philosophy that "drawing is the fountainhead of creativity," and made sure to maintain the principles of 2D animation. Rim estimates over 90% of the CG animation was drawn over by hand.

When she says CG animation, I assume she refers to character animation. If so, where was the CGI not drawn over by hand?
And I hope they have also made a documentary about the making of the movie. Many enjoys seeing what's going on during production and behind the scenes. Disney could be much better in making these, but maybe Netflix will, as there will be more documentaries from their list to chose from.

Also, if the movie is a success, I hope it doesn't lead to lots of children wanting a white rabbit as a pet. Rabbits are not that good pets for the youngest children. Like with cats and dogs, you need to know your pet as a species (and later as an individual) before you decide to buy one.

[Disney's Divinity]

It being a musical makes the film more interesting for me, so I’m glad.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Just realized something. Keane have always showed a love for the line. The animation in pencil tests is just black lines on a white background, and nothing more. Part of the reason for making Paperman was to preserve those lines, which are otherwise reduced in CGI.

The lunar creatures in the trailer, on the other hand, is the opposite. There is no lines or shadows there, only shapes of colors with no lines to frame them. Remove the color, and there is nothing left. Keane said he wanted the Moon to be visually different from the Earth, like when Dorothy visits Oz, and part of the solution appears to be this specific style.

[UmbrellaFish]

I just went down a Wikipedia hole and read the cast list for “Over the Moon.” Really great and with Broadway’s Phillipa Soo and Ruthie Ann Miles we should get a beautiful soundtrack!!

[Sotiris]

This is clearly a jab at Disney and probably against Lasseter and his Story Trust that had him removed from the director's seat on Tangled.

“Creative decisions here aren’t made by committee,” Mr. Keane said.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/busi ... aming.html

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I notice he says "decisions", not "suggestions". I remember when Lasster talked about the introduction of the "story trust" at Disney, inspired by Pixar's Braintrust, that he promised all the comments, ideas and suggestions should not be forced on the director. The director/scripwriter was supposed to have the last word, and they decided if they wanted to use the ideas or not. Based on Keane's comment, it's sounds like you couldn't always just dismiss an idea if you didn't like it.

[Farerb]

I notice he says "decisions", not "suggestions". I remember when Lasster talked about the introduction of the "story trust" at Disney, inspired by Pixar's Braintrust, that he promised all the comments, ideas and suggestions should not be forced on the director. The director/scripwriter was supposed to have the last word, and they decided if they wanted to use the ideas or not. Based on Keane's comment, it's sounds like you couldn't always just dismiss an idea if you didn't like it.

IDK even in the article itself this sentence has no context. What exactly is "here"? Pearl? Sony? Netflix?
I don't think the idea of the Story Trust is bad, sometimes people on the outside can notice problems and be more objective while the biased creator can't, that's why books have editors. Also these things didn't start and end with Lasseter and Iger, every big studio does that, even Eisner and Katzenberg were involved back in the 80's and 90's (a reminder of Katzenberg's insistence on cutting scenes from The Black Cauldron).

[Rumpelstiltskin]

IDK even in the article itself this sentence has no context. What exactly is "here"? Pearl? Sony? Netflix?
I don't think the idea of the Story Trust is bad, sometimes people on the outside can notice problems and be more objective while the biased creator can't, that's why books have editors. Also these things didn't start and end with Lasseter and Iger, every big studio does that, even Eisner and Katzenberg were involved back in the 80's and 90's (a reminder of Katzenberg's insistence on cutting scenes from The Black Cauldron).

It does have a context. It says "Glen Keane, a former Disney animator whose credits include Ariel in “The Little Mermaid,” is holed up at Netflix directing a feature-length musical called “Over the Moon” that is based on Chinese mythology."

So he is clearly talking about his Netflix production. Everything he has done since he left Disney has been smaller projects that doesn't require committees, so it's obviously a reference to Disney/Pixar. We don't know how he said it; was it an objective comment, a bitter sentence or did he smile when saying it? Not sure if it matters.

Having someone looking at the progress objectively can help, but there is a difference between feedback and suggestion which the director is free to reject or not, and decisions that are forced on the director by a whole team of people. It's about freedom as a director and the others working on the project.

When Lasseter became the new boss at Disney animation, they did introduce a lot of changes, including a copy of their Braintrust. That had never been around at Disney before, not even with Eisner and Katzenberg.

[Disney's Divinity]

Lasseter regularly undermined and chased off directors at both WDAS and PIXAR, and would then turn around and lie to the press about how the directors have all the power. That’s been known about Lasseter’s time at the studio for ages, long before he was ousted. So, so glad he no longer holds power there. Not that it'll ever undo the past, sadly.

[Farerb]

IDK even in the article itself this sentence has no context. What exactly is "here"? Pearl? Sony? Netflix?
I don't think the idea of the Story Trust is bad, sometimes people on the outside can notice problems and be more objective while the biased creator can't, that's why books have editors. Also these things didn't start and end with Lasseter and Iger, every big studio does that, even Eisner and Katzenberg were involved back in the 80's and 90's (a reminder of Katzenberg's insistence on cutting scenes from The Black Cauldron).

It does have a context. It says "Glen Keane, a former Disney animator whose credits include Ariel in “The Little Mermaid,” is holed up at Netflix directing a feature-length musical called “Over the Moon” that is based on Chinese mythology."

So he is clearly talking about his Netflix production. Everything he has done since he left Disney has been smaller projects that doesn't require committees, so it's obviously a reference to Disney/Pixar. We don't know how he said it; was it an objective comment, a bitter sentence or did he smile when saying it? Not sure if it matters.

Having someone looking at the progress objectively can help, but there is a difference between feedback and suggestion which the director is free to reject or not, and decisions that are forced on the director by a whole team of people. It's about freedom as a director and the others working on the project.

When Lasseter became the new boss at Disney animation, they did introduce a lot of changes, including a copy of their Braintrust. That had never been around at Disney before, not even with Eisner and Katzenberg.

The truth is that we don't know - no one was at WDAS or Pixar at these times, we don't really know how the story trust operated or what was the relationship between Lasseter and the directors, to me it is also weird that we focus on the male directors or other creative men when some of them go to work for him and some praise him, but we don't focus on his real victims, which were women, ones who were just at the start of their careers unlike well established animators, directors or composers. But that's just my opinion.
What I'm saying is that intervening with the creative process is not a Lasseter-specific problem, but a corporate problem. Katzenberg and Eisner didn't have a "Story-Trust" because they were making all the shots. It took them a lot of efforts to convince Katzenberg to keep Part of Your World, generally it seems like people have forgotten how petty Katzenberg was, and if Eisner didn't like an idea, it didn't happen. The concept of a Story Trust is not bad, it depends on its execution and we don't really know how they used to do things at Disney.

[Sotiris]

Lasseter regularly undermined and chased off directors at both WDAS and PIXAR, and would then turn around and lie to the press about how the directors have all the power. That’s been known about Lasseter’s time at the studio for ages, long before he was ousted. So, so glad he no longer holds power there. Not that it'll ever undo the past, sadly.

Exactly. Not to mention, Lasseter used personal problems like Glen Keane's heart attack (which I'm convinced was induced by the stressful and hostile conditions he created) and the passing of Aaron Blaise's wife to kick them off the director's seat on their projects (Rapunzel and King of the Elves, respectively.) In theory, the Story Trust was a good idea, but not how it operated under Lasseter. It became an exclusive club made out of people Lasseter liked who functioned as yes-men and pushed the ideas he wanted. And of course, the directors had to follow their instructions otherwise they'd get the boot. It was anything but a healthy creative environment.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

The truth is that we don't know - no one was at WDAS or Pixar at these times, we don't really know how the story trust operated or what was the relationship between Lasseter and the directors, to me it is also weird that we focus on the male directors or other creative men when some of them go to work for him and some praise him, but we don't focus on his real victims, which were women, ones who were just at the start of their careers unlike well established animators, directors or composers. But that's just my opinion.
What I'm saying is that intervening with the creative process is not a Lasseter-specific problem, but a corporate problem. Katzenberg and Eisner didn't have a "Story-Trust" because they were making all the shots. It took them a lot of efforts to convince Katzenberg to keep Part of Your World, generally it seems like people have forgotten how petty Katzenberg was, and if Eisner didn't like an idea, it didn't happen. The concept of a Story Trust is not bad, it depends on its execution and we don't really know how they used to do things at Disney.

I remember the articles, where many at Disney were angry because of what they saw as a reconstruction of how the whole studio was run, and said that Disney had their own traditions.
And again, Lasseter said that the trust was only there to provide the director with suggestions and ideas. Based on Keane's comment about "decisions", it sounds like it was more than that. Imagine if you are making a movie, and then you have to stand there in front of a selected group of people who are not really involed in the production, telling you what they like and not, what you should do or not (possibly following some notes from Lasseter about how a movie is supposed to be), and then being told to do what they say. If that's how it happened, I can see why many became really frustrated.
Yes, there were issues about Lasseter regarding women, but that's kind of off-topic in this discussion.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Anyway, I wonder if Lasseter has put together a new brain-/story trust over at Skydance Animation.


Netflix also posted a video with some new seconds of footage and one of the songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVpyijl4K58

[Farerb]

Finally a date and oh look it's my birthday!

[blackcauldron85]

That was great! That got me a little misty-eyed, and I really like the song! Thanks for sharing!

[Sotiris]

I also really liked the song. I think Over the Moon will be the feature to beat at the next Oscars, which of course Soul will. By the way, the lyric video doesn't contain the full song. There are two verses in the beginning that are missing, possibly because of the spoiler that her dad found a new girlfriend. You can find the full song in the link below.


Source: https://overthemoon.lnk.to/rttm

[Rumpelstiltskin]

You welcome.

I haven't seen any of the movies yet, but I think I'm a little more exited about this one.

When recording the song, the apparently only needed a single take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I947H7XaCKE

(farerb: Now we know when your birthday is)

[D82]

I liked the song too. In one of the videos Rumpelstiltskin posted, Glenn Keane said there'll be eight songs in the movie, so this will really be a musical. I hadn't thought about it's Oscar chances until now that you mentioned it, Sotiris, but I guess it's likely that it will get at least a nomination for Best Animated Feature. By the way, thanks for keeping us updated on this movie, Rumpelstiltskin! And what a great present to get this movie on your birthday, farerb!

[Farerb]

Yes! Animated films are never released on my birthday since they are always released in June or November and sometimes in March, so it's nice to have that one and a musical too!

[Disney's Divinity]

Sorry, I'm really late, but I love the song, too. Her voice is really beautiful and has that nasally quality at some points that reminds me of Belle's Streisand moment from B&tB. This really made me excited to see this. She, plus so many other members of the cast (Margaret Cho, Sandra Oh, Ken Jeong) on top of it being made by Keane, I hope this will be great. Hopefully the music will get a soundtrack release. Who knows, based on that, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being the best animated musical of the past twenty years after Frozen / Frozen 2.