Fantasia: 2-Movie Collection - 11/30/10 (Part 2)

tlc38tlc38 · Post by **tlc38tlc38** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Prince Edward wrote:Got my Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 Blu-ray collection in the mail today:) Have not watched it yet though... I am planning to save it (and the Beauty and the Beast release as well!) for X-mas^^

You've got greater willpower than me. I would've done popped that puppy in my player!

yamiiguy · Post by **yamiiguy** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:44 am

DVDBeaver review

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:30 am

BK wrote:There is no defense. They dropped the ball majorly with Fantasia.

Hold on buddy. Slow down there. I said Disney were wrong not to include the Fantasia/2000 DVD features on the disc, and there was no excuse no to. I think somebody's letting their anger cloud their judgement when reading.

You see, the world isn't black and white. It's often grey, with no definitive right and wrong.

People ignore my post in the other thread which shows that Disney only released 10 movies that are catalogue titles this year. Most of them had mediocre transfers and depleted features.

No, not really. My response on here was partly in response to that post too. While I agree Disney's catalogue collection of Blu-ray titles is scant, I don't believe most of them have had "mediocre" transfers. After all, the sources you quoted gave Fantasia 80 of out 100. No way is it an 8/10 for video quality.

With their main releases, all animation obviously since Disney think that having them means they can ignore their everything else, BATB dropped features and again screwed with the original theatrical cut, screw colours, they didn't have the right scenes. With Fantasia/2000 it's worse than Aristocats/Tarzan re-releases and there is so much space on the disc. With Toy Story 1/2 they again dropped features.

What exactly have they dropped from Beauty and the Beast? There's no point in carrying the games over, there's a new HD documentary... so the picture galleries may be smaller - to compensate we have more footage explaining how certain characters were developed. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else missing. Care to enlighten me?

As for the colours, I'm not going into that again. As for the legitimacy of the "original Theatrical Cut" I doubt anyone expected the true original to be on the release after knowing how the DVD was released.

What's even more annoying is the fact that Toy Story 1/2 had more of a packed release than Up/Toy Story 3 but only got 1 disc, so if they had 2, there would be no reason to not include features. Up's release is pathetic really and TS3 has the film again on disc 2. Stupidity.

Or its the rush to get these discs out of the door that means they're not as packed as they could be. Not a sin unique to Disney or BVHE.

I can't comment on Toy Story 3 (its not been released here yet) but UP! is far from pathetic.

You mention you don't want to see recycled material? The news here buddy is that because Disney continuously make their DVDs for a limited time only, not everyone actually got to see it. Fantasia/2000 went OOP, what, 7-8 years ago? Not to mention it was a packed set sold at an expensive price. Not many people would have it. If the material before covered everything already and it did it well, or other aspects that the new features did not touch upon, they SHOULD be on the disc.

And I stated they SHOULD be on disc.

Also, you've ignored my comment that the majority of people complaining about the lack of ported features seem to already own them. Yes, I know some people don't (which I again stated) and I know lots of younger people will be coming to the Fantasia movies for the first time.

But guess what? The majority of those first timers will be coming to Fantasia on DVD - and you've still said nary a word about the much more lacking and offensive DVD release and continue to rant and rave about the Blu-ray discs.

This is Disney, after all, you KNOW from past experience they drop features for no reason so I have no idea how any defense can be made. I didn't know that Sound of Music or whatever recycled everything but if they did a good job before there's no reason to do it again considering they may have covered everything that is relevant and interesting.

But let's take The Wizard of Oz as an example (I don't have Sound of Music). Everything on the discs is either from the DVD set (including a no-longer relevant featurette on the movie's restoration), with the new stuff from the Warner Bros archive. A "new" TV movie. A "new" documentary on "1939" and a re-packaged DVD release on MGM. The latter two "extras" were put into the Gone with the Wind set as well. To me, it seems like little thought or effort was put into the release - and boy, if you want to complain about poor quality transfers wait until you see the quality of the "new" "Dreamer of Oz" TV Movie included on the set...

Meanwhile, while withholding stuff back, Disney has recorded a new commentary track for Fantasia, included a full length documentary on Disney and Dali and 20/25 minutes or so of other new content. They're also taken the time to rethink how still galleries are presented, resulting in a much more immersive, satisfying and user friendly was to view and select from hundreds of pictures.

Like I said, nothing is black and white, but grey. In an ideal world we'd have all the stuff I mentioned, plus the DVD content, plus the mooted "Fantasia World" stuff.

But then... when you mentioned the original DVD set and how people may not have it, you mentioned the price didn't you? It was "an expensive price" (to use your words). Well for me, at least, in the UK, this twin-pack is far from expensive.

Again, shades of grey. What you loose on the content you gain on the price.

The main selling point for many of those older titles is the new transfer obviously considering age and etc. BATB does not need to be restored at all. They purposely made it go OOP fast so if they are going to reissue it they need something to entice us with. If Disney decided to really put effort into their discs and make a stellar complete one (At the time) then they wouldn't have to waste any money making new features that turn out to be not as good as the first and really now with all the voice talent, artists and etc aging, how much more can you update Snow White or Fantasia? They are purposely not putting things in because they deliberately want to squeeze money from you.

But people buy movies for different reasons. And that's especially true when it comes to re-buying movies. The movie should be the selling point. But most people do want more - they want to see that they are getting more. So most re-releases from all studios will always include new content. Again taking The Sound of Music, Wizard of Oz or Gone With the Wind as an example here the studios included not only "new" content (of varying relevance and expense) but also produced expensive "gift sets" filled with various souvenirs to entice people to re-purchase.

Yes, talent is going to age and die. But Disney always have the older documentaries available to use on future releases either in their entirety or in clips.

And are you really suggesting that one single unfinished deleted scene missing from Snow White's Blu-ray was done with the sole purpose of making people re-buy the movie again in 2018 (or whenever it is re-released). Or do you think it was perhaps a mistake? Something easily overlooked?

While I'm, no fan of the structure of the Snow White "Hyperion Tour" I can't believe you are complaining that Disney only wants people to rebuy its films when - regardless of how it ultimately turned out - Disney put a lot of time, effort and ambition into creating the Hyperion Tour content. Most of which was new.

Yes, Disney hold back on some features, but rarely (Fantasia aside) of any single dramatic import. I recently managed to get the UK "The Day The Earth Stood Still" on Blu-ray and its missing the original mono-soundtrack. The 5.1 remix track available has new foley effects and is not the original. The mono track on the US disc, but thanks to Fox's crappy region locking of even catalogue titles from 1951 I can't purchase and play it. That annoys me much more than missing supplements (and I believe the disc has a couple of features from the Cinema Reserve DVD version I own missing). Most studios have held back on features from their DVDs - even the sainted Warner (I believe their Blu-ray release of Forbidden Planet doesn't include the 40minutes or so of Film Trailers which were on the DVD and HD-DVD release).

Yes, all studios do that, but Disney basically do that with the only 12 titles they actually decide to treat semi-well. So whilst you have other studios just double/triple dipping on any movie in their catalogue but with either actual additions or additions that are not necessary so they don't actually get that much more revenue anyway, Disney are pimping 12 titles and only 12 since they haven't released anything else worthy, and yet they don't or purposely screw you over with them. They are the worst of the lot.

You are kidding? Nothing else released is "worthy" apart from the Platinum/Diamond line? Surely now you are having a laugh? BVHE (as a company) have released plenty of exceptional catalogue releases on Blu-ray.

I also like how in your post in the Diamond Release schedule you complain about lack of quality control on Disney's early DVD releases (which plagued Disney DVD for years and years - you never knew when a recycled LD transfer would turn up on DVD - sometimes in the wrong ratio) and yet here you're complaining that they're taking too long to release stuff on Blu-ray. (And I repeat once more to generalise; I find BVHE is one of the most consistent studios when it comes to A/V quality of their Blu-ray releases. Edge enhancement, DNR and other common complaints can rarely be attributed to BVHE releases.)

jpanimation · Post by **jpanimation** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:54 am

BK · Post by BK » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:45 am

2099net wrote:
BK wrote:There is no defense. They dropped the ball majorly with Fantasia.
Hold on buddy. Slow down there. I said Disney were wrong not to include the Fantasia/2000 DVD features on the disc, and there was no excuse no to. I think somebody's letting their anger cloud their judgement when reading.

You see, the world isn't black and white. It's often grey, with no definitive right and wrong.

People ignore my post in the other thread which shows that Disney only released 10 movies that are catalogue titles this year. Most of them had mediocre transfers and depleted features.
No, not really. My response on here was partly in response to that post too. While I agree Disney's catalogue collection of Blu-ray titles is scant, I don't believe most of them have had "mediocre" transfers. After all, the sources you quoted gave Fantasia 80 of out 100. No way is it an 8/10 for video quality.

With their main releases, all animation obviously since Disney think that having them means they can ignore their everything else, BATB dropped features and again screwed with the original theatrical cut, screw colours, they didn't have the right scenes. With Fantasia/2000 it's worse than Aristocats/Tarzan re-releases and there is so much space on the disc. With Toy Story 1/2 they again dropped features.
What exactly have they dropped from Beauty and the Beast? There's no point in carrying the games over, there's a new HD documentary... so the picture galleries may be smaller - to compensate we have more footage explaining how certain characters were developed. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else missing. Care to enlighten me?

As for the colours, I'm not going into that again. As for the legitimacy of the "original Theatrical Cut" I doubt anyone expected the true original to be on the release after knowing how the DVD was released.

What's even more annoying is the fact that Toy Story 1/2 had more of a packed release than Up/Toy Story 3 but only got 1 disc, so if they had 2, there would be no reason to not include features. Up's release is pathetic really and TS3 has the film again on disc 2. Stupidity.
Or its the rush to get these discs out of the door that means they're not as packed as they could be. Not a sin unique to Disney or BVHE.

I can't comment on Toy Story 3 (its not been released here yet) but UP! is far from pathetic.

You mention you don't want to see recycled material? The news here buddy is that because Disney continuously make their DVDs for a limited time only, not everyone actually got to see it. Fantasia/2000 went OOP, what, 7-8 years ago? Not to mention it was a packed set sold at an expensive price. Not many people would have it. If the material before covered everything already and it did it well, or other aspects that the new features did not touch upon, they SHOULD be on the disc.
And I stated they SHOULD be on disc. Also, you've ignored my comment that the majority of people complaining about the lack of ported features seem to already own them. Yes, I know some people don't (which I again stated) and I know lots of younger people will be coming to the Fantasia movies for the first time.

But guess what? The majority of those first timers will be coming to Fantasia on DVD - and you've still said nary a word about the much more lacking and offensive DVD release and continue to rant and rave about the Blu-ray discs.

This is Disney, after all, you KNOW from past experience they drop features for no reason so I have no idea how any defense can be made. I didn't know that Sound of Music or whatever recycled everything but if they did a good job before there's no reason to do it again considering they may have covered everything that is relevant and interesting.
But let's take The Wizard of Oz as an example (I don't have Sound of Music). Everything on the discs is either from the DVD set (including a no-longer relevant featurette on the movie's restoration), with the new stuff from the Warner Bros archive. A "new" TV movie. A "new" documentary on "1939" and a re-packaged DVD release on MGM. The latter two "extras" were put into the Gone with the Wind set as well. To me, it seems like little thought or effort was put into the release - and boy, if you want to complain about poor quality transfers wait until you see the quality of the "new" "Dreamer of Oz" TV Movie included on the set...

Meanwhile, while withholding stuff back, Disney has recorded a new commentary track for Fantasia, included a full length documentary on Disney and Dali and 20/25 minutes or so of other new content. They're also taken the time to rethink how still galleries are presented, resulting in a much more immersive, satisfying and user friendly was to view and select from hundreds of pictures.

Like I said, nothing is black and white, but grey. In an ideal world we'd have all the stuff I mentioned, plus the DVD content, plus the mooted "Fantasia World" stuff.

But then... when you mentioned the original DVD set and how people may not have it, you mentioned the price didn't you? It was "an expensive price" (to use your words). Well for me, at least, in the UK, this twin-pack is far from expensive.

Again, shades of grey. What you loose on the content you gain on the price.

The main selling point for many of those older titles is the new transfer obviously considering age and etc. BATB does not need to be restored at all. They purposely made it go OOP fast so if they are going to reissue it they need something to entice us with. If Disney decided to really put effort into their discs and make a stellar complete one (At the time) then they wouldn't have to waste any money making new features that turn out to be not as good as the first and really now with all the voice talent, artists and etc aging, how much more can you update Snow White or Fantasia? They are purposely not putting things in because they deliberately want to squeeze money from you.
But people buy movies for different reasons. And that's especially true when it comes to re-buying movies. The movie should be the selling point. But most people do want more - they want to see that they are getting more. So most re-releases from all studios will always include new content. Again taking The Sound of Music, Wizard of Oz or Gone With the Wind as an example here the studios included not only "new" content (of varying relevance and expense) but also produced expensive "gift sets" filled with various souvenirs to entice people to re-purchase.

Yes, talent is going to age and die. But Disney always have the older documentaries available to use on future releases either in their entirety or in clips.

And are you really suggesting that one single unfinished deleted scene missing from Snow White's Blu-ray was done with the sole purpose of making people re-buy the movie again in 2018 (or whenever it is re-released). Or do you think it was perhaps a mistake? Something easily overlooked?

While I'm, no fan of the structure of the Snow White "Hyperion Tour" I can't believe you are complaining that Disney only wants people to rebuy its films when - regardless of how it ultimately turned out - Disney put a lot of time, effort and ambition into creating the Hyperion Tour content. Most of which was new.

Yes, Disney hold back on some features, but rarely (Fantasia aside) of any single dramatic import. I recently managed to get the UK "The Day The Earth Stood Still" on Blu-ray and its missing the original mono-soundtrack. The 5.1 remix track available has new foley effects and is not the original. The mono track on the US disc, but thanks to Fox's crappy region locking of even catalogue titles from 1951 I can't purchase and play it. That annoys me much more than missing supplements (and I believe the disc has a couple of features from the Cinema Reserve DVD version I own missing). Most studios have held back on features from their DVDs - even the sainted Warner (I believe their Blu-ray release of Forbidden Planet doesn't include the 40minutes or so of Film Trailers which were on the DVD and HD-DVD release).

Yes, all studios do that, but Disney basically do that with the only 12 titles they actually decide to treat semi-well. So whilst you have other studios just double/triple dipping on any movie in their catalogue but with either actual additions or additions that are not necessary so they don't actually get that much more revenue anyway, Disney are pimping 12 titles and only 12 since they haven't released anything else worthy, and yet they don't or purposely screw you over with them. They are the worst of the lot.

You are kidding? Nothing else released is "worthy" apart from the Platinum/Diamond line? Surely now you are having a laugh? BVHE (as a company) have released plenty of exceptional catalogue releases on Blu-ray.

I also like how in your post in the Diamond Release schedule you complain about lack of quality control on Disney's early DVD releases (which plagued Disney DVD for years and years - you never knew when a recycled LD transfer would turn up on DVD - sometimes in the wrong ratio) and yet here you're complaining that they're taking too long to release stuff on Blu-ray. (And I repeat once more to generalise; I find BVHE is one of the most consistent studios when it comes to A/V quality of their Blu-ray releases. Edge enhancement, DNR and other common complaints can rarely be attributed to BVHE releases.)

Clearly you are more knowledgeable than I am about this and I thank you for replying because otherwise I would know no better.

I do maintain what I said about Disney being sloppy though. (The Fantasia release was a German reviewer by the way, and it was only one review, but I added it because there was a score.) Disney are fantastic for only two things; new releases and animation because the rest were appropriately deemed mediocre. Could you give an example of another movie Disney did right, or rather, over and beyond the call of duty?

Also on a more random note, I don't care about the colours either, hence screw colours, but more that they didn't release the real theatrical cut properly when there really was no reason not to. Similarly, yes, it may be a mistake but considering how much time they put into SW and BATB, being their crown jewels, there really is no excuse for any mistakes seeing that for other releases they can't even transfer picture files and what was already on the empty last release (GMD, TBC & others). Look at the Dinosaur BR compared to it's DVD counterpart.

Regarding the aging talent, what I mean is that, considering Disney seems to want to solely focus on animation as their catalogue, they shouldn't just ignore other releases and when they actually want to try and carve out a proper, pimped-out release they should go head-first into getting the right people or rather the remaining people so that they don't have to think next time, oh let's update the feature with just anyone talking who have no relation to the original project or rather comparatively newer people to history, the industry etc. Look at even Toy Story, the voice of Slinky Dog passed away and the voice of Doc in Cars did too. When you consider they had Ed Asner voice Carl and Peter O'Toole, Anton Ego in Ratatouille the people making these features should take into consideration an aspired-to-be proper job in the future might not be better than actually doing a proper job now. I'm just giving Pixar examples because I know them better just to try and reinforce the fact that many people who actually worked on say the package features, Fantasia, Sword in the Stone etc might have already passed on or just get more and more obscure. So, Disney should really try to put more effort into everything else, which they clearly do not, sorry to say.

Being that you stay in the UK, and I currently do, I do really find it annoying that features and even specifications change across the Atlantic. For the recent HTTYD BR apparently they dropped the short Legend of the Boneknapper Dragon. For what reason, I have no idea, but I'm now waiting for a decent alternative option to pop up because although I loved that movie, I cannot stand the fact that they decided to just not give us something that there is space for. (Did they maybe include the BD-Live documentary, apparently the best part of the package?) I've also held off on Pirates and Matrix even though I love those franchises, because at the end of the day, yes, I loved the movies and maybe I might not have the time to watch all the features, I have seen them before and because I like them, I want to know more and those features not being there is almost a crime. It's a differentiated product and actually inferior in relation to another one. Aren't they all produced in the same factory? Why is there a need to change specifications/features? This was worse with DVD because of the 9 regions whilst only 3 in BR, but I think even now there are some dodgy releases that differ in the same region, which is, IMO, inexcusable.

You were also talking about DVDs, and whilst I agree with you that they now completely suck with so many exclusive features on BR, especially with Disney and especially with new releases/special editions (BR-exclusive) from other studios, it is inevitable. They want us to switch and for movies like the Sound of Music or whatever (this means I don't know which releases) they are solely released on Blu because the transfer was done for that, and not another DVD edition. Thus, with the supposed more work put into it specifically for a new format, they would want a higher price (though, now DVDs are higher, I have no idea why) for it. So, yes, you might complain about being shafted, but those releases had only BR in mind, the 'upgrade', so yeah. Of course with current releases it is not so black and white, yet, at the end of the day, the price for a combo pack for those available, and normally those available are popular movies anyway, are cheaper than buying a DVD and then a BR. The features are there, and though you may not get it, they gave you, or forced you into the better deal choice that would get you the features anyway. From a logical, bargain, pricing standpoint, there's no reason for you not to get the combo-pack.

This is different to across the ocean changes because it is not easy to get another region release and then play it on your region-coded player. Not to mention the absurd shipping costs you have to pay to get that when it should have been standard considering the amount of space in the disc.

Lastly, two things, I haven't actually seen the Up release but from reading the reviews it just seems much smaller than what I have seen (Nemo, Incredibles, bits of Toy Story). Ever since Cars it does seem like what is available shrank. Maybe the previous releases had lots of shorter pieces making it seem more or content-wise they are on-par, but quantitative-wise, and yes, I know quality>quantity, they seem much smaller and cover fewer aspects. As I've said before, I love these movies and want to know more, not like a I-couldn't-care-less-what-you-did-because-the-movie-sucks, so when it seems they don't cover as much as they should or have, I get annoyed, especially when they use disc-space or something as an excuse since the discs seem empty and are empty. Look at TS3, I don't think they really needed to put the commentaries on disc 2 and thereby taking up more space by putting the movie there again albeit at a lesser quality. What was the point? They could have switched the features, reduced the nonsensical advertising that gets outdated, (I know that it's not plausible), I mean, if you are going to say that the movie is for all, then let's not try and gear the discs toward kids. I couldn't care less about games, and chances are, NO ONE does. I am dumbfounded to find any kid who would choose playing a game on a TV with terrible controlling than who would just go online to play a flash game or computer game or whatever, even at that age. The Pixar releases have been better but Disney especially should realize that NO ONE cares about the games so let's not waste time/effort/money putting them in. Remember Peter Pan's nonsensical sing-along?

Secondly, I do realize I was being a bit of or a complete hot-head before and I apologize if I did make you annoyed. Some practices, especially at Disney, since I know the most about them (stuff like non-lossless SR at WB as well) piss me off when there is no reason, financial or commercial to not do it.

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:09 am

Well, it depends what you call "Disney". If you just mean Disney branded films then their entire catalogue of Blu-rays is small. My guess is, they know most Disney films are ultimately watched by children in their bedroom after the first few viewings, and most bedrooms don't have HDTV/Blu-ray player combinations. However, they did (for example) a superb Nightmare Before Christmas Blu-ray.

And of course, Disney has a bias towards their newer titles - because new titles sell - its often hard getting shelf-space for archive releases if you're not willing to put in the advertising spend.

If you mean Buena Vista films, then there's superb Blu-rays of Sin City, Clerks, Chasing Amy and (the new) Gangs of New York. Buena Vista isn't exactly full of high-profile catalogue titles, and some of those that they do have were shovelled out in the first two waves or so (BD25, MPEG2 encoding, limited extras) and won't be "double-dipped" for some time (such as Con-Air, Pretty Woman etc.).

You can see my Blu-ray collection in the link in my sig. Mostly I buy UK discs because they tend to be cheaper since the pound sank on the currency exchange and there is still the issue with region locking. But I'm not afraid to import a disc if I know it will work and it seems better. I agree, there's no excuse to hold-back on extras on international releases - Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland being another example of a non-US Blu-ray mysteriously missing content.

Remember though, in some cases, non-US Blu-rays have more soundtrack options, which can impact on space (more bandwidth rather than space I would guess though). For example Disney's releases often have lots of languages and the commentaries dubbed (effectively doubling the number of soundtracks listed on the box). It's just something we're going to have to put up with I guess. I've no doubt the missing mono track on The Day The Earth Stood Still was for no other reason than the UK release has more soundtracks than the US release.

[shrugs] But again you could say that of most studios. I guess at least Warners and Paramount are almost always region free - so you could import HTTYD if you really want it.

Class316 · Post by **Class316** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:19 pm

zackisthewalrus · Post by **zackisthewalrus** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:21 pm

Class316 wrote:

Why so frowny? The new transfer looks very nice!

Coolmanio · Post by **Coolmanio** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:16 pm

Walked into a f.y.e. today and they had the Fantasia Anthology!!!!! Picked it up lol!! So now I din't have to worry about losing bonus features with the Blu-ray!

TheSequelOfDisney · Post by **TheSequelOfDisney** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:18 pm

Coolmanio wrote:Walked into a f.y.e. today and they had the Fantasia Anthology!!!!! Picked it up lol!! So now I din't have to worry about losing bonus features with the Blu-ray!

Very, very, very wise choice

How much was it?

Coolmanio · Post by **Coolmanio** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:23 pm

TheSequelOfDisney wrote:
Coolmanio wrote:Walked into a f.y.e. today and they had the Fantasia Anthology!!!!! Picked it up lol!! So now I din't have to worry about losing bonus features with the Blu-ray!
Very, very, very wise choice How much was it?

$49.99. Kinda pricey, but it was the first time I have ever seen it in a store, and it's a lot cheaper than buying it online.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:22 am

Random question. will this set include shorts such as "one by one" and "the little match girl"? I'd love to see these in HD. And since they were intended for a third Fantasia shouldn't these be on it?

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:26 am

Kyle wrote:Random question. will this set include shorts such as "one by one" and "the little match girl"? I'd love to see these in HD. And since they were intended for a third Fantasia shouldn't these be on it?

Yes, they should but no, they are not. We only get Destino.

KubrickFan · Post by **KubrickFan** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:14 pm

2099net wrote: But let's take The Wizard of Oz as an example (I don't have Sound of Music). Everything on the discs is either from the DVD set (including a no-longer relevant featurette on the movie's restoration), with the new stuff from the Warner Bros archive. A "new" TV movie. A "new" documentary on "1939" and a re-packaged DVD release on MGM. The latter two "extras" were put into the Gone with the Wind set as well. To me, it seems like little thought or effort was put into the release - and boy, if you want to complain about poor quality transfers wait until you see the quality of the "new" "Dreamer of Oz" TV Movie included on the set...

Meanwhile, while withholding stuff back, Disney has recorded a new commentary track for Fantasia, included a full length documentary on Disney and Dali and 20/25 minutes or so of other new content. They're also taken the time to rethink how still galleries are presented, resulting in a much more immersive, satisfying and user friendly was to view and select from hundreds of pictures.

While Disney has to be commended for producing new features constantly, it's not really useful in this case. We already had great bonus features, and they were all on the Anthology box set. To purposefully not include them, while produce only a few new ones strikes me as odd. Warner Bros. at least understands that if you have a wealth of existing material, you don't need to produce new ones, just for the sake of having it in HD. And they put hours and hours of existing content both on the Wizard of Oz and Gone With the Wind Blu-rays. I prefer it if Disney just emptied out their archives and filled a Blu-ray with SD material than what they're doing now.

2099net wrote: I also like how in your post in the Diamond Release schedule you complain about lack of quality control on Disney's early DVD releases (which plagued Disney DVD for years and years - you never knew when a recycled LD transfer would turn up on DVD - sometimes in the wrong ratio) and yet here you're complaining that they're taking too long to release stuff on Blu-ray. (And I repeat once more to generalise; I find BVHE is one of the most consistent studios when it comes to A/V quality of their Blu-ray releases. Edge enhancement, DNR and other common complaints can rarely be attributed to BVHE releases.)

They can rarely be attributed, because Disney rarely releases catalog titles. How many live-action titles from before 1980 have Disney released? None. Compare that to Warner's output (while still delivering quality transfers and outstanding bonus material), and it's a shocking difference in quantity.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:18 pm

Sotiris wrote:Yes, they should but no, they are not. We only get Destino.

Well that's disappointing to hear to say the least.

BK · Post by BK » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:58 pm

KubrickFan wrote:
2099net wrote: But let's take The Wizard of Oz as an example (I don't have Sound of Music). Everything on the discs is either from the DVD set (including a no-longer relevant featurette on the movie's restoration), with the new stuff from the Warner Bros archive. A "new" TV movie. A "new" documentary on "1939" and a re-packaged DVD release on MGM. The latter two "extras" were put into the Gone with the Wind set as well. To me, it seems like little thought or effort was put into the release - and boy, if you want to complain about poor quality transfers wait until you see the quality of the "new" "Dreamer of Oz" TV Movie included on the set...

Meanwhile, while withholding stuff back, Disney has recorded a new commentary track for Fantasia, included a full length documentary on Disney and Dali and 20/25 minutes or so of other new content. They're also taken the time to rethink how still galleries are presented, resulting in a much more immersive, satisfying and user friendly was to view and select from hundreds of pictures.
While Disney has to be commended for producing new features constantly, it's not really useful in this case. We already had great bonus features, and they were all on the Anthology box set. To purposefully not include them, while produce only a few new ones strikes me as odd. Warner Bros. at least understands that if you have a wealth of existing material, you don't need to produce new ones, just for the sake of having it in HD. And they put hours and hours of existing content both on the Wizard of Oz and Gone With the Wind Blu-rays. I prefer it if Disney just emptied out their archives and filled a Blu-ray with SD material than what they're doing now.

2099net wrote: I also like how in your post in the Diamond Release schedule you complain about lack of quality control on Disney's early DVD releases (which plagued Disney DVD for years and years - you never knew when a recycled LD transfer would turn up on DVD - sometimes in the wrong ratio) and yet here you're complaining that they're taking too long to release stuff on Blu-ray. (And I repeat once more to generalise; I find BVHE is one of the most consistent studios when it comes to A/V quality of their Blu-ray releases. Edge enhancement, DNR and other common complaints can rarely be attributed to BVHE releases.)
They can rarely be attributed, because Disney rarely releases catalog titles. How many live-action titles from before 1980 have Disney released? None. Compare that to Warner's output (while still delivering quality transfers and outstanding bonus material), and it's a shocking difference in quantity.

1990 actually.

Escapay · Post by **Escapay** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:13 pm

BK wrote:
KubrickFan wrote:They can rarely be attributed, because Disney rarely releases catalog titles. How many live-action titles from before 1980 have Disney released? None.
1990 actually.

2000 actually. Unless we're counting Touchstone/Miramax/Hollywood Pictures/Dimension. Then 1990 would be correct, as Pretty Woman was released last year on Blu-Ray. From Disney, their earliest live-action title is Remember the Titans, although TRON will be coming out next year with the Blu-ray & DVD release of TRON Legacy. After that, who knows? I'm surprised a heavy hitter like Mary Poppins isn't on Blu-ray yet. And I'll likely be waiting years for The Rocketeer to go Blu.

albert

KubrickFan · Post by **KubrickFan** » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:01 pm

BK wrote:
KubrickFan wrote: While Disney has to be commended for producing new features constantly, it's not really useful in this case. We already had great bonus features, and they were all on the Anthology box set. To purposefully not include them, while produce only a few new ones strikes me as odd. Warner Bros. at least understands that if you have a wealth of existing material, you don't need to produce new ones, just for the sake of having it in HD. And they put hours and hours of existing content both on the Wizard of Oz and Gone With the Wind Blu-rays. I prefer it if Disney just emptied out their archives and filled a Blu-ray with SD material than what they're doing now.
They can rarely be attributed, because Disney rarely releases catalog titles. How many live-action titles from before 1980 have Disney released? None. Compare that to Warner's output (while still delivering quality transfers and outstanding bonus material), and it's a shocking difference in quantity.
1990 actually.

And that makes it even sadder.

MJW · Post by **MJW** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:13 am

What do you think we're looking at for a starting price in stores on release day?

Amazon has it listed for $28.99 currently, but I am hoping that some stores sell it for less than that, so that with my $10 coupon I can get it as cheap as possible! Toys R Us was great with $22.99 for BATB, making for a $12.99 price after coupon.

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:41 am

Escapay wrote:
BK wrote: 1990 actually.
2000 actually. Unless we're counting Touchstone/Miramax/Hollywood Pictures/Dimension. Then 1990 would be correct, as Pretty Woman was released last year on Blu-Ray. From Disney, their earliest live-action title is Remember the Titans, although TRON will be coming out next year with the Blu-ray & DVD release of TRON Legacy. After that, who knows? I'm surprised a heavy hitter like Mary Poppins isn't on Blu-ray yet. And I'll likely be waiting years for The Rocketeer to go Blu.

albert

Yeah, but compared to other studios, how many pre-1990 titles for a general (rather than children's) market does Disney have? It's comparing apples to oranges.

Warners may have lots of good classic, archival releases (but not that many really still compared to their DVD releases) but how many are aimed at "children"?

Warner has a DVD sub-label called Warner Family Entertainment. How many of these or other childrens/family titles have been released on Blu-ray? The Iron Giant? Free Willy? The Witches? Little Shop of Horrors?

Correct me if I'm wrong but we've had Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Gremlins (no Gremlins 2) and the Goonies. Maybe one or two others, but hardly a flood of such releases.

And where's Fox's pre-2000 Family films? Home Alone and Doubtfire? What about Universals? No Land Before Times on Blu-ray yet, despite it being a huge DVD money spinner. How about Matilda or Annie from Sony/Columbia?

Other studios may release more pre-2000 films on Blu, but they have films which are suitable for a broader audience.

Like it or not, Disney doesn't own a lot of 'adult' older movies. A lot of their live action 'adult' movies have already been put on Blu-ray when the format was launched. And no studio is pushing older childrens/family movies while Blu-ray remains mainly in people's living rooms, not people's bedrooms.

I'm pretty sure Disney/BVHE have released more pre-2000 films aimed at children/family audiences than any other major studio.

Yes, the bias is heavily (heavily!) on animation - but let's face it, so has the last 3 or 4 years of their DVD releases! I don't see why people expected it to change with Blu-ray. Hopefully as and when blu-ray gains market share, they'll be more willing to invent in proper restorations of such films for blu-ray and other HD format usage.

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