Is Disney Done with DVD? (The Never Ending Blu-Ray Debate)

[The_Iceflash]

SOMEONE said this on another FORUM and I think it is 100% true...

DVD was an intermediate format that just happened to become a phenomenon. Watching 480p material on a 1080i/p capable display never made real sense.

Yeah...I don't buy that. I don't believe for a minute that DVD was an intermediate format.

I'm sorry but I'm not discarding DVDs like yesterdays news. They aren't yesterday's news. There's nothing wrong with them and the picture and sound on them on great. They aren't an inferior format but an alternate format. I'm still working on getting Disney DVDs let alone getting them on Blu-Ray. I'm not going to have half-Disney DVD and half-Disney Blu-ray. There's nothing wrong with the DVDs I have and there's nothing that should make me think otherwise. Blu-Ray is like SACDs to me. A nice alternate that's there for whoever wants it. SACDs didn't take over CDs (after everyone switching over from vinyl, who would want to replace their music collections yet again with ones with larger space and better sound?) Sound familiar? Switching from vinyl to CD was a large jump. From CD to SACD? Not so much. Same with VHS's to DVDs to Blu-Ray

[drfsupercenter]

Well the thing that amazes me is how people automatically think 1080p is the best video format ever.

Who picked the resolution 1920x1080? Obviously it's better than 720x480... but why not MORE? Blu-Ray might be useless in a few years too... they'll start getting bigger and bigger.

And that's why I say nothing is better than using an actual projector for a home theater. It's the closest to an actual movie theater, and the resolution doesn't matter (to a point.) You can hook up a DVD, Blu-Ray, whatever, and it'll look nice regardless.

And that's also why I say HDTVs are intentionally made to cripple upscaling... I've upscaled some 480p stuff to 1080p on my computer, using some filters, and made it look pretty darn close to an actual 1080p encode. Again. It's all a scam by the industry to get people to buy stuff they don't need.

So it's not that I don't like Blu-Ray as much as I don't like this "Blu-Ray is the best thing ever" mindset. Ideally, they should have a video format that does not depend on the resolution, and it can be anywhere from 640x480 to 1920x1080 and even higher. The problem is just that all the HDTVs are pixel-based so anything SMALLER gets resized by the TV, and like I already said, they're intentionally given horrible resizing methods to keep people buying Blu-Ray.

[2099net]

There's actually one major difference between SACD and Blu-ray (well two actually). SACD was not a recordable format, and even if it was, there was no source of audio you could record which would take advantage of the increased audio resolution.

You can already get Blu-ray recorders, and with HDTV you already have a source which is worthwhile recording on Blu-ray over normal DVD. In addition, Blu-ray has potential for computer data storage - again especially with recordable Blu-ray discs (but is already being used to some extent on the PS3 - sadly the drive on the PS3 is a little to slow, thus the tendency for data to be copied to the PS3 HDD).

It's not correct to state Blu-ray is going to be the next SACD. However, I'm sure its not correct to say Blu-ray is going to be the next DVD. DVDs success was unpredicted and unprecidented. Many factors helped DVD domiate - not just convenience.

Remember, before DVD (in the US at least), you couldn't buy big name, theatrical releases months after their cinema showings for a decent price. Most of the VHS tapes were priced for rental - typically you would have to wait longer for priced to own VHS releaes. DVD not only offered audio/video and playback enhancement, but it enabled people to "own" recent Hollywood movies for the first time at a sensible price.

I don't really see what most of the complaints are with Blu-ray. The fact all players play DVDs mean that unlike Laserdisc or VHS, nobody HAS to repurchase any title. The fact all players upscale DVDs to some extent (some better then others) shows that the manufacturers are even making your DVDs look better than ever before. Disney, and other studios likewise aren't going to drop DVD anytime soon - check out the Digital Bits for some facts (they regularly update the following information at the foot of their hompage):

SOFTWARE MARKET SHARE - BD VS DVD (YTD through 11/16/08 - Nielsen/VideoScan):
Week End. 11/16 Blu-ray Disc: 4 DVD: 96

TOTAL U.S. PLAYER SALES (last data reported 8/24/07 - CEA): 133,443,356
Editor's Note: The Consumer Electronics Association has discontinued its reporting of DVD player sales data, and they have not begun reporting on Blu-ray player sales. However, our original CEA DVD Player Sales chart will remain available here for future reference.

They no longer count DVD sales, but at last count there was over 133m DVD players sold in the US. Do you really think Disney's going to ignore more than 120m players anytime soon?

It's a shame that it appears some DVDs are getting lesser features than Blu-ray discs... but I'm not convinced this wouldn't have happened anyway. Did Blu-ray affect the decision to make Cars a single disc? Is Blu-ray responsible for the Enchanted DVD being so poor? Or did Blu-ray result in POTC: At World's End DVD release from being lighter than the other Pirates films? Going further back did Blu-ray stop the 2 Disc Vault Disney titles?

I think studios had learned that they didn't need to go all-out to sell their DVDs, they could sell as many without going that extra mile. So I think its something that would have happened to some extent regardless of Blu-ray or any other format. But at the moment they do have to go the extra mile to make the Blu-ray seem attractive, especially given the pricing premium charged for Blu-ray (but I repeat, there's lots of bargain Blu-ray discs if you take the effort to shop around).

So to conclude: DVD isn't going anywhere fast, Blu-ray isn't taking over anytime soon, when it does, you can still play your DVDs and they'll look better than ever so the option to upgrade is not being forced on you and finally Disney were cutting back on supplements before Blu-ray was even launched.

[ZOOMBOOM0688]

I don't really see what most of the complaints are with Blu-ray. The fact all players play DVDs mean that unlike Laserdisc or VHS, nobody HAS to repurchase any title.

So to conclude: DVD isn't going anywhere fast, Blu-ray isn't taking over anytime soon, when it does, you can still play your DVDs and they'll look better than ever so the option to upgrade is not being forced on you and finally Disney were cutting back on supplements before Blu-ray was even launched.

Exactly, you don't have to drop DVD, it just seems to be a better choice for purchasing NEW movies that you DON'T have on DVD.

And, yeah DVD was really amazing in what it did for movies and home entertainment. I just wish DVD had the qualities of BLU-RAY and they could have made it last for 20+ years... THEN we wouldn't need to be discussing this now..

[Goliath]

Yes, technological innovations are all a ploy by the greedy bouregoise to steal the wealth of the poor herd-like proletariat, who have no choice but to buy, buy, buy.

C'mon, man.

Your sarcasm couldn't be more out of place. The car was a technological innovation. The telephone was a technological innovation. The refrigirator was a technological innovation. BluRay is a marketing ploy 'invented' only to make you buy the same product you already had twice. There's no need for it. The 'need' is made up.

ALSO, Goliath, I don't understand why you are so hateful towards BLU?

It's not only BluRay. It's also the whole HDTV hype, flatscreen tv's, plasma screens etcetera. It's just more crap we don't need. And it makes me 'angry' to see people buying into it and rush out to the store to buy it, when they own a perfectly good tv and dvd player at home. That's money that could have been spend so much more wisely. But no, we have to stuff a few bucks extra in the corporation's pockets. Like they didn't have enough already...

Do you ACTUALLY hate the technology BLU-RAY? or you are just mad because they are trying to "FORCE" you to change (Which BTW, NO ONE is asking you to) If you don't like it don't buy it.

If that were really true, then why are advertisements still around? Of course they force us. They only force us in such a way we hardly notice it anymore. Sure, nobody is pointing a gun to my head and saying: you have to buy BluRay, or else... But psychologically speaking, yes they do... They will tell all of us we won't be happy watching a movie we like anymore if it isn't in BluRay. And all of a sudden, people are treating their dvd's like it's trash and you can't make out what's on the screen anymore... You being only one example. They create a desire out of thin air by the way they market it. And yes, in that regard, they force us.

however I IS a fact that blu ray is superior to DVD. [...] This make NO sense what-so-ever...

The "desire" (even with DVD) was to view our movies in a higher quality to "recreate a movie theater experience"

Blu just fulfills the desire BETTER...

That's exactly what they want you to think. And it further proves my point.

[drfsupercenter]

It's not only BluRay. It's also the whole HDTV hype, flatscreen tv's, plasma screens etcetera. It's just more crap we don't need. And it makes me 'angry' to see people buying into it and rush out to the store to buy it, when they own a perfectly good tv and dvd player at home. That's money that could have been spend so much more wisely. But no, we have to stuff a few bucks extra in the corporation's pockets. Like they didn't have enough already...

That's pretty much exactly it. CRT TVs were fine for YEARS, and then people wanted to go BIGGER than 36", and they had to have a method.
So companies made rear-projection units. That looked great at the time, and now look like crap.

So now they have "high definition" flat TVs that look even better than the rear projections.

But I can guarantee you a CRT TV of say 25" will look better than any HDTV of the same size.

It's just another product to come along and make bigger, bigger, bigger.

My ideal home theater setup is an actual projector, because it's the closest to having a real cinema. And when I go off to college, I won't be wasting $2000 on a TV, just a couple hundred on a projector and a screen.

So as I've been saying... higher resolution is nice but it's really getting hyped up more than it needs to be... Who knows if LCD and plasma will even look good in 4-5 years? By then they'll probably have something BETTER that has the same problem rear projection did a few years ago. (Where people will go "Wow, look at how horrible these Blu-Rays look on this new TV! We need some sort of new media format to make up for it!")

[Kyle]

we already have something better than plasma and LCD, it uses lasers. we can now get true blacks. it consumes even less energery than lcd, and is nearly paper thin. It'll be a while before its affordable enough for your average consumer though.

[drfsupercenter]

That's precisely what I'm getting at... any idea if that has a resolution larger than 1080?

[2099net]

That's pretty much exactly it. CRT TVs were fine for YEARS, and then people wanted to go BIGGER than 36", and they had to have a method.
So companies made rear-projection units. That looked great at the time, and now look like crap.

Rear projection cannot "create" definition, just as upscaling cannot "create" definition. But admittedly it can make things look better, and probably "good enough" or "fine enough" for the purpose. However lots of things were "fine", but have been surpassed. LPs were "fine" at the time, but replaced by CD. Academy ratio movies were "fine" at the time but more or less replaced by various widescreen formats, leading me to say 4:3 TVs were fine at the time, but replaced by widescreen tvs. Or even my electric boiler was "fine" at the time, but has since been replaced by a more energy efficient one.

Just because something is "fine" doesn't mean it can't be improved, and often is improved. Of course, it's your decision if you think the improvement is worth the cost, but over time the cost will decrease due to economies of scale.

As for advertising being used to force people to upgrade.. you may as well complain about Nike or whoever forcing you to upgrade your sneakers or any other "fashionable" item twice a year.

[The_Iceflash]

That's pretty much exactly it. CRT TVs were fine for YEARS, and then people wanted to go BIGGER than 36", and they had to have a method.
So companies made rear-projection units. That looked great at the time, and now look like crap.

Rear projection cannot "create" definition, just as upscaling cannot "create" definition. But admittedly it can make things look better, and probably "good enough" or "fine enough" for the purpose. However lots of things were "fine", but have been surpassed. LPs were "fine" at the time, but replaced by CD. Academy ratio movies were "fine" at the time but more or less replaced by various widescreen formats, leading me to say 4:3 TVs were fine at the time, but replaced by widescreen tvs. Or even my electric boiler was "fine" at the time, but has since been replaced by a more energy efficient one.

Just because something is "fine" doesn't mean it can't be improved, and often is improved. Of course, it's your decision if you think the improvement is worth the cost, but over time the cost will decrease due to economies of scale.

As for advertising being used to force people to upgrade.. you may as well complain about Nike or whoever forcing you to upgrade your sneakers or any other "fashionable" item twice a year.

Not even close.

[drfsupercenter]

But who says Blu-Ray can't be improved?

That's what I'm saying... what's the big deal about 1080p? It's better than 480, but it's nowhere near the quality of an actual 35mm film reel.

So I'm not getting too excited about Blu-Ray... something better will come along in a few years to replace it.

DVD was just a big deal because it was the first DIGITAL format... and at the time 720x480 was an amazing resolution for a movie... like 1080p is now.

[2099net]

Something better will always come along. Why buy an iPod now? Or a new phone? Why buy a computer at all? But because technology is always improving doesn't mean you shouldn't look to the here and now.

Incidently, it appears the next big breakthrough in home displays will be 3D, not higher resolution (although this too is being worked on) and Blu-ray should be able to cope with future 3D displays.

I also don't see why blu-ray marketing is that far removed from people coming on TV telling you to change your shoes or clothes or whatever to stay fashionable. As with fashion, the choice is yours - the fact Blu-ray plays DVDs means you don't have to repurchase anything you already have on DVD.

[ZOOMBOOM0688]

It's not only BluRay. It's also the whole HDTV hype, flatscreen tv's, plasma screens etcetera. It's just more crap we don't need. And it makes me 'angry' to see people buying into it and rush out to the store to buy it, when they own a perfectly good tv and dvd player at home. That's money that could have been spend so much more wisely. But no, we have to stuff a few bucks extra in the corporation's pockets. Like they didn't have enough already...

That's pretty much exactly it. CRT TVs were fine for YEARS, and then people wanted to go BIGGER than 36", and they had to have a method.
So companies made rear-projection units. That looked great at the time, and now look like crap.

So now they have "high definition" flat TVs that look even better than the rear projections.

But I can guarantee you a CRT TV of say 25" will look better than any HDTV of the same size.

It's just another product to come along and make bigger, bigger, bigger.

My ideal home theater setup is an actual projector, because it's the closest to having a real cinema. And when I go off to college, I won't be wasting $2000 on a TV, just a couple hundred on a projector and a screen.

So as I've been saying... higher resolution is nice but it's really getting hyped up more than it needs to be... Who knows if LCD and plasma will even look good in 4-5 years? By then they'll probably have something BETTER that has the same problem rear projection did a few years ago. (Where people will go "Wow, look at how horrible these Blu-Rays look on this new TV! We need some sort of new media format to make up for it!")

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

First of all I actually needed a TV when I bought my HDTV... Second, people wanted flatter, lighter TVs AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE... I am not REPLACING my DVDs I am buying the NEW movies on this format...

ALSO, It is people like you who don;t allow technology to advance and If blu-ray was invented as a "Marketing gimmick" then so was THE CAR, THE TELEPHONE and everything else you mentioned...

"I'm fine with my horse , I don't need this "horse-less machine they created"

The cell phone was just a different type of telephone and what about the 900mhz, 2.4ghz, 5,8 ghz and now the 6.0....

So what you are saying is that ALL TECHNOLOGY is a marketing gimmick.

In your words, DVD was a marketing gimmick it's just that you thought this gimmick was worth a shot where as the new gimmick Blu-ray isn't.

Something better will always come along. Why buy an iPod now? Or a new phone? Why buy a computer at all? But because technology is always improving doesn't mean you shouldn't look to the here and now.

Exactly! it's like saying "Why should I eat now when I know in a few hours I'll be hungry again"

Now that might not be a good example because it is a NEED being compared to a WANT.

A good example is computers, they changed them SO FAST if you keep waiting for the next best one or for the current one to get cheaper you will be waiting FOREVER!

[Kyle]

That's precisely what I'm getting at... any idea if that has a resolution larger than 1080?

nah, 1080p will be around for quite some time. there are now other areas to improve other than resolution, like viewing angles, power consumption and such. of course, non of these things will make new technology a must have outside of those who have to have the latest and greatest.

[Goliath]

However lots of things were "fine", but have been surpassed. LPs were "fine" at the time, but replaced by CD. [...]

The difference between a LP and a CD is enormous; the difference between a DVD and BluRay is not.

As for advertising being used to force people to upgrade.. you may as well complain about Nike or whoever forcing you to upgrade your sneakers or any other "fashionable" item twice a year.

Who says I don't complain about that?

Something better will always come along. Why buy an iPod now? Or a new phone? [...]

A new phone can come in handy... When my old one is broken. So I'll buy a very recent model to be sure it will last as long as possible... But I'm not going to replace my perfectly good phone with a iPhone, just because "all the cool kids have got one", or because you can download 92648 stinkin' wallpapers, 726543 irritating ringtones and 52864 useless games on it. And anybody who has bought one just to be 'hip' better not brag about it when they're around me, or I'll slap them silly!

[...] As with fashion, the choice is yours - the fact Blu-ray plays DVDs means you don't have to repurchase anything you already have on DVD.

I think it's false to assume you have a choice. Ever heard of 'peer pressure', or 'keeping up with the Jones'? If these psychological mechanisms wouldn't work, then why are people on this forum begging Disney to bring out certain movies on BluRay ("make them blu!")? They can play their regular dvd's on a BluRay player, but somehow they just have this urge to buy the movie again... Hmm...

[tlc38tlc38]

I think it's false to assume you have a choice. Ever heard of 'peer pressure', or 'keeping up with the Jones'? If these psychological mechanisms wouldn't work, then why are people on this forum begging Disney to bring out certain movies on BluRay ("make them blu!")? They can play their regular dvd's on a BluRay player, but somehow they just have this urge to buy the movie again... Hmm...

It's not a fact of "just because it's on Blu I wanna buy it". I always double/triple dip on Disney releases simply because I'm a Disney film collector and I want the latest release. However, if it just so happens to be on released on Blu, then I'll choose Blu over DVD anyday. Since I have a Blu-ray player, why wouldn't I choose Blu over DVD??!!


Let's face it, not everyone is going to agree on everything. Really this topic is pointless. Why should we be arguing over this? What's going to happen with the "format" is going to happen.

[Goliath]

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

You see, the way you're so fanatic about 'defending' a consumer product actually frightens me. I don't think this attitude is healthy.

ALSO, It is people like you who don;t allow technology to advance and If blu-ray was invented as a "Marketing gimmick" then so was THE CAR, THE TELEPHONE and everything else you mentioned...

The comparison doesn't ring true. The car and the telephone were inventions that brought great progress to society.

The car enabled people to bridge far greater distances than they had ever before. It connected places that were totally isolated before. Especially in a country like America that was very important. It made transportation much more efficient. It contributed to the economy to be able to transport goods in this new time saving way.

The telephone made it possible for people to communicate directly to one another even if the other person lived thousands of miles away. You didn't have to wait three months anymore to receive a letter. And again, it helped the economy because orders could be placed on every given moment.

Can you imagine the world without cars and telephones? No, because those were very important, history altering inventions that actually made progress in society. Can you imagine a world without BluRay? Yes, it's called dvd! The car and telephone were necessary inventions; BluRay is a luxury that doesn't add value.

[Goliath]

It's not a fact of "just because it's on Blu I wanna buy it". I always double/triple dip on Disney releases simply because I'm a Disney film collector and I want the latest release. However, if it just so happens to be on released on Blu, then I'll choose Blu over DVD anyday. Since I have a Blu-ray player, why wouldn't I choose Blu over DVD??!!

The difference is, I'm talking about pushing Disney to release them on BluRay. Not just buying the BluRay when it happens to come out, but actually pushing, pleading, cheering and begging for it. (Like you do in your signature.) And complaining when a Disney film is (re-)released on dvd and not on Blu. I think that proves my point about marketing.

Let's face it, not everyone is going to agree on everything. Really this topic is pointless. Why should we be arguing over this? [...]

Well, that is true about any topic that is discussed on this forum. If that is the norm, we might as well shut down the forum.

[tlc38tlc38]

The difference is, I'm talking about pushing Disney to release them on BluRay. Not just buying the BluRay when it happens to come out, but actually pushing, pleading, cheering and begging for it. (Like you do in your signature.) And complaining when a Disney film is (re-)released on dvd and not on Blu. I think that proves my point about marketing.

Why not push for something you want??!! Everyone wants different things. I just so happen to want something you don't want.

[Goliath]

Why not push for something you want??!! Everyone wants different things. I just so happen to want something you don't want.

The question is not whether you should or shouldn't ush for something you want. Somebody else made the point nobody is forcing us to switch to BluRay, because you can play your old dvd's on a BluRay player. This was said in trying to prove BluRay is not a cynical marketing ploy. So I asked: if that's true, then why do people beg Disney to release the same movie they already own on dvd and which they can already play on a BluRay player, to come out again on a BluRay disc? Because that proves it is a cynical marketing ploy.