Disney Classics that are good but you don't like

[DC Fan]

There are Disney movies that are good but you don't seem to like.

I'm not taking about the great ones or beloved ones that you're one of the few people that don't like. I'm saying well regarded movies that you don't seem to like even though there's no reason for that.

-The Fox and the Hound: Don't find it at all appealing. The songs are bad, the movie is depressing for the sake of being depressing and I find it feels incomplete. Not just those certain animated sequences. I mean that it feels to me incomplete. Just a feeling.

-The Great Mouse Detective: I know it's very good, it's from the beloved 80s era, is dark, revolves around a mystery; all this I love...but I can't like it.

-Oliver and Company: 80s movie, most of the songs I like but it's not for me. Maybe it's the setting and/or the story and characters.

-The Recuers Down Under: I can appreciate it for the animation and as a 90s movie but it doesn't compare to the original. I find it very bland.

-101 Dalmatians: Don't get it. Cruella is a great villain and the last part (escape) is tense. But other than that not for me. The animation style isn't my thing either.

-Lady and the Tramp: The animation is amazing and well acted. Other than that is sooo slow and boring.

-Meet the Robinsons: From that awful CGI movie era this one is supposed to be the best regarded. I don't get it at all.

[Farerb]

I don't like anything from the post Walt/Dark Age/Bronze Age with the exception of The Great Mouse Detective. I also Don't like anything from the post Renaissance except TENG, Lilo and Stitch and Treasure Planet (and the latter is just slightly above the rest that I didn't mention). I also don't like Wreck-it Ralph, Big Hero 6 and Ralph Breaks the Internet. From Walt's films I don't care for the package films or The Sword in the Stone.

The only Pixar films I like are Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, WALL-E, Brave, Coco and Incredibles 2.

[thedisneyspirit]

Tarzan. Not a bad movie in any way, but I can't say I really like it or connect with it.

Snow White. Beautiful and technically impressive, but the pacing is dull.

Hercules. I like the characters, I like the music, I like the design/animation...Something's missing for me to adore. Maybe the wacky humor doesn't cut it for me, I dunno. Maybe the plot's a little too directionless.

Pixar: I just find it dull and pretty much a boy's club. Hence why I can't really get into most of their films. I still love the first two Toy Story, Ratatouille and Coco tho. Brave and the Incredibles I like depending on the day.

Most of the Revival. And I'm not gonna say more since I know people are gonna scream at me for that. But I just find them so childish and unsubtle, plus CGI Disney just looks uninspired.

[JeanGreyForever]

Peter Pan: I don't actually think this movie can even be considered good but fans are just blinded by nostalgia. It's clearly Walt's weakest besides The Sword in the Stone and at least TSITS had the excuse of not having Walt's involvement unlike this film. Whereas Cinderella took the best elements of the 1950s, Peter Pan takes the worst and creates a very toxic titular character and even Wendy loses a lot of spunk. One major mistake was making Hook so comical and the fact that Disney chose to keep him alive at the end because he knew audiences wouldn't want him to die shows the problem when the villain is more sympathetic than the main character(s). The most magical scenes are ironically in the nursery than Neverland itself. The film really doesn't understand the book's themes and waters them down into something that is the antithesis of what the book stood for (choosing to never grow up is not supposed to be a good thing). And frankly, while I dismiss a lot of claims that the Walt era was racist, this movie has the most racist sequence out of any, moreso than films that more typically get that label like Song of the South, Dumbo, Lady and the Tramp, etc. The only reason that the Indian song from Peter Pan hasn't been censored is because there doesn't seem to be a powerful Native American group to lobby for its removal or that Disney felt it would offend if they retained it in this day and age which is a shame because it shows the hypocrisy of Disney.

Robin Hood: This one is generally trashed by critics but a subgroup of fans really love this film and hail it as one of the best, probably from nostalgia from all the VHS tapes. There's a reason Disney felt this film could be so readily released on VHS because if the film's reputation was tarnished in the process, it wouldn't be a big deal. I'm always mystified at how many people love this film. I tried watching it the other day on Disney Plus since I hadn't seen it in 3-4 years and I could barely get through it and had to force myself to watch the whole thing. The characters are all so bland and unlikable, or the good guys or anyway, and the songs leave so much to be desired. There's definitely an issue when I find myself rooting for Prince John and Sir Hiss over the rest of the film's cast of characters because they're the most entertaining despite being the least sympathetic. And the animation is abysmal after Sleeping Beauty and pretty much every other scene reuses animation from an old film.

Hercules: There's some charm in this film considering who made it but you can tell that they weren't interested in making this film, or at least not on an ancient mythological figure. The film is Aladdin on steroids but without any of the heart and it gets tiresome when every line delivered by pretty much every single character is a zinger. They need to be used sparingly but this film doesn't know the meaning of the word. The songs aren't bad at all but they aren't the typical Disney fare and thus aren't nearly as memorable and the animation style frankly isn't for me. The plot is fraught with plotholes and inconsistencies and that's not even looking at the bastardization of the source material (no wonder Greece was outraged and refused to premiere the movie). Hercules himself pales as a character compared to the rest of the 90s protagonists starting from Ariel all the way to Tarzan. And finally, that CGI Hydra scene was dated even when the film came out. I know people nitpick about the CGI in Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, Anastasia, etc. now but all of the CGI in those films still gel really well unlike how it was used in Hercules.

Mulan: In the 2000s, a lot of people claimed this film was super underrated and deserved more, something I could agree with. However, now it feels as though young millennial fans regard this film as the apex of Disney, whether its from the songs, humor, or characterization, and frankly this film isn't really as good as it's been made out to be now. It endures in the current generation because of the feminist story and how well that aspect has aged, but there's a reason that outside of that, most older fans don't know or care about this film. The first act works best but then Mushu, as funny as he is, comes in and completely alters the tone of the film for the worst. It's never as bad as Hercules but the drama has definitely been upended into a pure comedy, farce and all. The biggest issue of this film for me as how it's riddled with anachronisms whether it's Mushu whipping out toothpaste or Mulan hugging the Emperor at the end. Mulan and Mushu (despite his issues) are well done, but the rest of the characters are pretty bland, including Shang and Shan Yu especially. Mixing together anything that even remotely seems Chinese and putting it altogether in this film is perhaps the worst offense imo.

Tangled: Besides Peter Pan, this is probably the film on the list that has the most popular consensus from general audiences but I'm not a fan at all. Even when it first came out and I was less critical, the film simply didn't do anything for me. The best moments, like the boat scene and the near-death/healing scene, are basically poached from better Disney films and the characters aren't nearly as memorable. The Dreamworks style of humor, starting from the narration, doesn't work for Disney and Flynn Rider and the Pub Thugs seem like they belong in a completely different film. I could go on forever about how Rapunzel isn't a realistic character at all considering her experiences being locked in a tower with no human contact besides Gothel. Yet, she's a perky and sunny teenager who can accomplish anything with ease, clearly to pander to today's generation of young girls that yes, you're just like a Disney Princess. I don't normally use the term Mary Sue because I think it's pretty sexist in pretty much all applications but Rapunzel might be the best definition of this. Gothel doesn't work as a villain for me and I despise the animal sidekicks. The setting is just a hodge-podge of anything European and the songs are frankly some of Menken's lesser works. Honestly, it's a real shame that we lost out on Glen Keane's Rapunzel for this film and while the CGI has aged well, this film really started the trend of the bug-eyed characters that Disney has become synonymous with now.

Inside Out: I think Pete Docter's films tend to be pretty overrated in general outside of Monsters, Inc. Up pretty much is only remembered for the first scene of the film but even that's not as bad as this film imo. I really don't like Riley at all and she feels like a cipher of a character. Even Andy from the Toy Story films is more memorable. Riley's parents are pretty sexist stereotypes and the actual emotions are okay but either Joy or Sadness (depending on the viewer) tends to be pretty grating. I imagine that's supposed to be the intent of the film, however it's a real shame that the dynamic of the five emotions is waived aside so that the film can be reduced to a standard buddy comedy that Pixar likes to make. I will say that I do like Bing Bong a lot even though some other people are really critical of him.

There are a few other films that I don't have a high opinion of but they tend to not be liked by audiences either. These are the main ones which either have near-unanimous acclaim from audiences (Peter Pan, Tangled, Inside Out) or have major fanbases online (Robin Hood, Hercules, Mulan).

I don't like anything from the post Walt/Dark Age/Bronze Age with the exception of The Great Mouse Detective. I also Don't like anything from the post Renaissance except TENG, Lilo and Stitch and Treasure Planet (and the latter is just slightly above the rest that I didn't mention). I also don't like Wreck-it Ralph, Big Hero 6 and Ralph Breaks the Internet. From Walt's films I don't care for the package films or The Sword in the Stone.

The only Pixar films I like are Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, WALL-E, Brave, Coco and Incredibles 2.

Your taste when it comes to classic hand-drawn Disney films is pretty similar to mine although I also like The Rescuers (and Winnie the Pooh if that counts) from the Dark Age, and I'm a little less keen on TENG from the 2000s films.

I don't care for the package films either or The Sword in the Stone, but I'd throw Peter Pan into that list as well. It's the only Walt film which I feel hasn't aged well at all.

[Disney Duster]

Wow, it's so sad to hear so many people not liking such wonderful Disney movies! LOL I am slightly teasing, as not every Disney or Pixar film is a winner and everyone has their own unique feelings.

DC Fan, I totally agree with everything you say about 101 Dalmatians, except I do actually like the art style. I also agree with you about Lady and the Tramp, which my friend would be sad to hear. I love The Rescuers Down Under, but that's from the last time I saw it which was when I was a kid. I just love the adventurousness of it and the epicness, and the animation. Plus I love Joanna and McLeach and the animals and all that Cody and the animals do to try to escape from the cages. I think The Fox and the Hound is an excellent film because of the emotion it managed to stir in me. It has sucky songs for sure, and Todd and Copper needed to develop a little more of their friendship first, but the rest is great.

farerb, I'm just about with all of that, man.

thedisneyspirit, I agree with a lot of what you say, and am surprised you don't like the Revival so much. How ever I will always think Snow White is near the very top of Disney's masterpieces.

JeanGreyForever, as always, very well said! We will always disagree on Peter Pan though, because you are very attached to the book (which I'm still ever slowly reading, sorry!) and it's themes of how Peter actually isn't such a great character. Wait, or in the book is he a great character, better than the Disney one, it's just him never growing up is bad? Anyway, you dislike this very much, but I like that Disney thought it would be cool if you never grew up. It's almost like Never Land is heaven. A little sad that's it's a heaven where you can't enjoy grown-up pleasures, but it's a kind of heaven. But yes, the Indians are racist and Disney is hypocritical. I enjoy Robin Hood's peacefulness, I like the music because it is so idyllic and, like, so nostalgic with "Robin Hood and Little John walkin' through the forest. Laughin' back and forth at what the other'ne has to say. Reminiscin', This-'n'-thattin' havin' such a good time", I dunno, I picture two buddies doing that and there's something sweet about it. It's not a masterpiece but it's nice. A lot of furries probably love it though, lol. I love Hercules the character because he is so cute. So handsome and with such a nice personality to match. I also like Meg. She's funny. You are right that in Tangled it's like the pub thugs are from a totally different movie! I feel they were added for boys to like. And the songs are totally not Menken's best. Rapunzel should have a great "I Want" ballad, but she doesn't. And "At Last I See the Light" is so repetitive and meh. I think Inside Out is great except I didn't think the ending was clever. She resolves everything by her parents finally hugging her? That's all she needed? Riley couldn't figure that out before?!

The Sword in the Stone is booooring!

[Semaj]

The Sword and the Stone: I don't hate this movie, but I'm not enthusiastic about it either. The film has been consistently praised for the Wizards' Duel, and some of the Nine Old Men have frequently pointed to this film as featuring their most favorite work. The problem with the movie is that there's not enough story material to justify its length. The fact that Walt had little involvement really shows.

The Fox and the Hound: Not a bad film. Features terrific animation from the then-new school animators. They made an attempt to make a more mature story, but there's that nagging feeling that they could've done more. Sad to say that it boils down to whether they should've killed off a character who was not even THAT unlikeable; storywise, it would've added that much intensity to the eroding friendship of Tod and Copper. The whole point behind the book is that life drives people apart; everyone in the story dies by the end. But this was made at a time when Disney was skiddish about taking real risks; even when they killed off Tod's mom at the beginning, it was so downplayed that it barely left an impact, other than setting up the main story. Again, very awkward and morbid details, but this is the paradox behind aiming cartoons strictly for kids.

Bolt: Can't find anything to hate about the film. It's just so run-of-the-mill that I'm left wishing they stuck with Chris Sanders' version.

[Disney's Divinity]

Movies I think are good, but I don’t like? Brother Bear, Peter Pan, and Big Hero 6, I guess…. There are some films I’m not emphatic about or that are slightly flawed or boring to me in ways, that I still ultimately like / can enjoy (the WIR films, Tarzan, Alice, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Hunchback, Oliver & Company, Aristocats, Meet the Robinsons, Bolt, etc.). I’d say that description is PIXAR’s whole schtick—films that aren’t very exciting at the same time, and yet not terrible or unwatchable enough to hate or turn off.

On the other hand, Chicken Little is awful and I don’t like it either. So are the Cars films. Most DTV sequels fall here, too, except maybe Bambi II and the TLK and Aladdin sequels.

[JeanGreyForever]

thedisneyspirit, I agree with a lot of what you say, and am surprised you don't like the Revival so much. How ever I will always think Snow White is near the very top of Disney's masterpieces.

JeanGreyForever, as always, very well said! We will always disagree on Peter Pan though, because you are very attached to the book (which I'm still ever slowly reading, sorry!) and it's themes of how Peter actually isn't such a great character. Wait, or in the book is he a great character, better than the Disney one, it's just him never growing up is bad? Anyway, you dislike this very much, but I like that Disney thought it would be cool if you never grew up. It's almost like Never Land is heaven. A little sad that's it's a heaven where you can't enjoy grown-up pleasures, but it's a kind of heaven. But yes, the Indians are racist and Disney is hypocritical. I enjoy Robin Hood's peacefulness, I like the music because it is so idyllic and, like, so nostalgic with "Robin Hood and Little John walkin' through the forest. Laughin' back and forth at what the other'ne has to say. Reminiscin', This-'n'-thattin' havin' such a good time", I dunno, I picture two buddies doing that and there's something sweet about it. It's not a masterpiece but it's nice. A lot of furries probably love it though, lol. I love Hercules the character because he is so cute. So handsome and with such a nice personality to match. I also like Meg. She's funny. You are right that in Tangled it's like the pub thugs are from a totally different movie! I feel they were added for boys to like. And the songs are totally not Menken's best. Rapunzel should have a great "I Want" ballad, but she doesn't. And "At Last I See the Light" is so repetitive and meh. I think Inside Out is great except I didn't think the ending was clever. She resolves everything by her parents finally hugging her? That's all she needed? Riley couldn't figure that out before?!

The Sword in the Stone is booooring!

The Revival films in general aren't very popular on here although there's still a lot of love for Zootopia and the Frozen films while Tangled and Wreck-It Ralph seem to elicit pretty mixed reactions, either being hated or loved. Big Hero 6 and Moana are more lukewarm here.

He's really not supposed to be a likable or sympathetic character in the book either, he's just a lot more charming and he's supposed to win the hearts of everyone around him, at least at first. I personally never get that from the Disney version of the character, which in part probably comes from his impish appearance that has way too much of a resemblance to Lampwick, who is hardly a beloved Disney character. Also while Bobby Driscoll could easily have played the character in the 40s, but 1953, his voice was too aged for the role and he sounds like a very cocky and stereotypical 50s teenager so all the youth and "innocence" of the character is robbed. Some people have theorized that Neverland was a place where all dead children went although the book makes it clear that Neverland is created from children's dreams and whatever you dream or fantasize about ends up coming true there.

I'm not a fan of buddy comedies in general and I didn't like how Disney wanted to get rid of the Merry Men to make Robin Hood one of their first buddy comedies. I think the Toy Story creators even cited Robin Hood as inspiration at one point because of that.

Meg is my favorite part of Hercules. I wish the rest of the film was up to par with her. I know Hades is pretty popular but I was never a fan, especially now after how disgusting of a human being James Woods has been exposed as.

Surprisingly enough I like I See the Light, or at least I like the melody. The lyrics may be a little generic true, but the melody is really pretty. I know Menken wanted the song to be even more dramatic and powerful but was told to tone it down for the final film. I love hearing it during the Soundsational Parade because it's built up way more and sounds more like how Menken would have wanted it imo. I also really like the Healing Incantation but the rest of the songs are either meh or plain yuck.

Yeah, Inside Out has a lot of issues in general. I never even realized how contrived the ending is until you mentioned it.

The Sword and the Stone: I don't hate this movie, but I'm not enthusiastic about it either. The film has been consistently praised for the Wizards' Duel, and some of the Nine Old Men have frequently pointed to this film as featuring their most favorite work. The problem with the movie is that there's not enough story material to justify its length. The fact that Walt had little involvement really shows.

The Fox and the Hound: Not a bad film. Features terrific animation from the then-new school animators. They made an attempt to make a more mature story, but there's that nagging feeling that they could've done more. Sad to say that it boils down to whether they should've killed off a character who was not even THAT unlikeable; storywise, it would've added that much intensity to the eroding friendship of Tod and Copper. The whole point behind the book is that life drives people apart; everyone in the story dies by the end. But this was made at a time when Disney was skiddish about taking real risks; even when they killed off Tod's mom at the beginning, it was so downplayed that it barely left an impact, other than setting up the main story. Again, very awkward and morbid details, but this is the paradox behind aiming cartoons strictly for kids.

Bolt: Can't find anything to hate about the film. It's just so run-of-the-mill that I'm left wishing they stuck with Chris Sanders' version.

I'm surprised people are including The Sword in the Stone in this thread only because practically nobody thinks that film is good. There's a reason that it's the only Walt-era film that's basically been completely forgotten or just isn't cared for at all. Honestly, it feels more like a Dark Age film and the lack of Walt's presence in the film completely shows. One could easily swap this film and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh from their respective eras and it would make more sense.

I actually do like The Fox and the Hound after having watched it on Disney Plus for the first time since I was a kid, however I agree that the main issue is Chief not dying. That really takes away the kick from the end of the story and I can't help but wonder if the film would be better regarded as the Bambi of its time with just that change. Frankly, the songs are not very memorable but Bambi is hardly known for its songs either.

Bolt is pretty generic and there's very little that marks it as a Disney film for me. Practically any studio could have made it. The only thing I love about the film is the character of Mittens. Otherwise, I agree that Chris Sanders should have been allowed to make his film because Lilo & Stitch is one of my favorites.

[Farerb]

Moana is pretty much despised around here. That's why I try to not mention the film.

[D82]

Moana is pretty much despised around here. That's why I try to not mention the film.

I really like Moana. It's my third favorite film from the revival after Tangled and Zootopia. And I think there are other members who also like it. Anyway, I know how you feel. I don't speak much about Tangled either for the same reason. But we shouldn't be afraid of talking about our favorite films because of that. If anything, we should do it even more to show there are also people who support them. Though, I'm no one to give advice about that, because as I said, I don't do it either.

Regarding the thread's topic, some Disney films I think are good but I don't like as much as other fans are, for example, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Lilo & Stitch. I like them and I think they're good films, but I don't love them.

[RyGuy]

The admins may delete my account for this but Bambi.

I find the film beautiful to look at but I find the story incredibly dull. And I didn’t see the film until I was in high school. I guess my mom took my older brother when he was small and he had nightmares for weeks so my younger brother and I never got to see it. So there is no nostalgia for me the way there is with other films I find to be dull like Lady and the Tramp and 101 Dalmatians.

[Semaj]

Moana is pretty much despised around here. That's why I try to not mention the film.

News to me.

My only nitpicks with Moana is that this was where Ron n' John conformed to the CGI protocol before one of them retired, as had been the trend for many 2D veterans at Disney. It also became clear, thru Eric Goldberg's ancillary animation for the film that Disney gives what few hand-drawn artists they have left very little to do, despite efforts to prove otherwise.

[JeanGreyForever]

Moana is pretty much despised around here. That's why I try to not mention the film.

It gets criticism for being bland or unoriginal and while it's true that it's generally not people's favorite here, I also haven't heard anyone outright hate it. Tangled is the film from the Revival that tends to cause extreme division on this forum because it has some major fans and some major haters as well.

[Disney Duster]

Wow Semaj, didn't know everyone dies in The Fox and the Hound!

That's so weird, I could have sworn Revival films were very popular here. I guess they aren't. Peter seemed very like a rather mean and somewhat heartless jerk in the first few chapters of Peter Pan I've been reading. I don't know why I imagine him as I do but I suppose others see him as charming. I find the animated one more charming myself. I like his design and personality so much that if he became an adult I would crush on him. Not all of his personality would I like, and especially since he's so masculine that wouldn't work out, but there's something about him. I wonder if I missed Mrs. Darling and Wendy talking about how Neverland is whatever children dream come true when I read the first few chapters. I think I like buddy comedies. I guess I find that such a general situation it can be done bad or well. Now that I know James Woods is awful, it makes me absolutely hate Hades. "I See the Light" is not bad, I just feel it repeats to much and is lukewarm. Maybe I would have liked Menken's grander song, if it had a different melody. Yeah, sorry, not big on the melody.

We should have had the Chris Sanders version of Bolt.

Bambi's songs are my favorite Disney songs ever! Every one is good except "Let's Sing a Gay Little Spring Song".

I never had nostalgia with Bambi because I don't even think I ever saw the whole thing when I was young. I saw it in full when I was a teenager in high school, when the Platinum Edition came out. It hit me with powerful feelings about life and also made me think about fathers taking their boys hunting in the 40's, strangely enough. I have no nostalgia for it and think it's a masterpiece. I strangely find stuff with the Ronno and the fire a little dull, but that's it. It's all about growing up and becoming an adult in nature. It's great!

[Farerb]

I disagree that it's bland or unoriginal. Sure it has second act problems for being too long, but it also has well rounded three dimensional characters, a good original twist that hasn't been done before and probably the best climax out of all the revival films. In my opinion Moana managed to combine a lot of good aspects of Disney films, mostly Renaissance and Revival and execute it "without interruptions", which makes for a linear and cohesive film, which might be the problem for a lot of people. I can see in the film that Musker and Clements managed to drop every little idea that was thrown at them in order to benefit the film, unlike TPATF, which while I really like it, is kind of a mess.
Bland, unoriginal, not enough story, Moana is a Mary Sue is some of the criticism I see around here. And let's not forget LMM's involvement which is always a fun topic here

[JeanGreyForever]

Wow Semaj, didn't know everyone dies in The Fox and the Hound!

That's so weird, I could have sworn Revival films were very popular here. I guess they aren't. Peter seemed very like a rather mean and somewhat heartless jerk in the first few chapters of Peter Pan I've been reading. I don't know why I imagine him as I do but I suppose others see him as charming. I find the animated one more charming myself. I like his design and personality so much that if he became an adult I would crush on him. Not all of his personality would I like, and especially since he's so masculine that wouldn't work out, but there's something about him. I wonder if I missed Mrs. Darling and Wendy talking about how Neverland is whatever children dream come true when I read the first few chapters. I think I like buddy comedies. I guess I find that such a general situation it can be done bad or well. Now that I know James Woods is awful, it makes me absolutely hate Hades. "I See the Light" is not bad, I just feel it repeats to much and is lukewarm. Maybe I would have liked Menken's grander song, if it had a different melody. Yeah, sorry, not big on the melody.

We should have had the Chris Sanders version of Bolt.

Bambi's songs are my favorite Disney songs ever! Every one is good except "Let's Sing a Gay Little Spring Song".

I never had nostalgia with Bambi because I don't even think I ever saw the whole thing when I was young. I saw it in full when I was a teenager in high school, when the Platinum Edition came out. It hit me with powerful feelings about life and also made me think about fathers taking their boys hunting in the 40's, strangely enough. I have no nostalgia for it and think it's a masterpiece. I strangely find stuff with the Ronno and the fire a little dull, but that's it. It's all about growing up and becoming an adult in nature. It's great!

The book is very dark and super depressing. I'm not sure why Disney ever thought to adapt it into a film but I think it was a favorite of Woolie Reitherman's kids which is why he chose it.

I think this forum is more critical and discerning of the Revival films compared to general audiences, but that doesn't mean the Revival films are outright hated. Even the most ardent critics of the era tend to like one or two films.

Well, he is supposed to be a heartless jerk, but Barrie says that every woman and mother especially would be utterly captivated by him, including Wendy's mother. Barrie's point was that children are inherently selfish and if left to their own whims and desires, could be downright dangerous and even murderous. Not because they're evil or anything but because they don't have the maturity to think beyond "me, me, me" so they're only concerned with appeasing themselves.

For example, when Wendy and her brothers are flying to Neverland, Michael falls asleep several times and nearly falls and drowns. Peter waits until the very last minute to save him but it's more out of bravado than because he actually cares about saving Michael, something Wendy notes. Peter is also known for starving the Lost Boys, stretching or thinning their physical shapes, and even killing them if any of them start to get older. Despite what Disney and pop culture may tell you, in the book, living in Neverland doesn't make someone never grow older. Only Peter is unique in that aspect by never growing up.

Another thing about Peter is that he has terrible memory and can't really remember anything beyond the now. He forgets Wendy several times and she has to remind him of who she is. He's supposed to visit Wendy every year for spring cleaning and while he does so the first year, Wendy asks him about Tinker Bell and Captain Hook, and Peter has no idea who they are (fairies live a very short time so Tinker Bell presumably dies shortly after Wendy leaves and Hook is killed unlike the Disney film). While Peter remembers to come to Wendy the first year, he forgets the next year and doesn't come back until the very next and has no idea that he missed a year. After that he forgets completely until Wendy has a daughter of her own and Peter has no idea that all this time has passed because an ageless character with barely any memories or care wouldn't have a sense of time.

As for the Disney version, I'm not a fan of his design because even Lampwick physical appearance aside, the tights don't really suit him when Peter is supposed to be a child of nature, not a Robin Hood knockoff. I much preferred the David Hall concept art of Peter where he actually looks like a child, has blonde hair and I think blue eyes, and wears a red costume that would suit a child more than Robin Hood's castoffs. I'm pretty sure that the mention of Neverland being based off of children's dreams comes in one of the first few chapters of the book. Barrie describes all three Darling children's dreams and how they each have their own Neverland.

A lot of people don't like I See the Light on here, I've noticed. I personally think the song is super overrated because I always see it win polls and stuff outside of this forum, rivaling Beauty and the Beast and A Whole New World, which I find to be sacrilegious. There's a reason it's not an Oscar winner.

I like "Love is a Song" from Bambi. However the songs aren't really well known to the general public like Heigh Ho, When You Wish Upon a Star, Bella Notte, Cruella De Vil, Baby Mine, etc.

I disagree that it's bland or unoriginal. Sure it has second act problems for being too long, but it also has well rounded three dimensional characters, a good original twist that hasn't been done before and probably the best climax out of all the revival films. In my opinion Moana managed to combine a lot of good aspects of Disney films, mostly Renaissance and Revival and execute it "without interruptions", which makes for a linear and cohesive film, which might be the problem for a lot of people. I can see in the film that Musker and Clements managed to drop every little idea that was thrown at them in order to benefit the film, unlike TPATF, which while I really like it, is kind of a mess.
Bland, unoriginal, not enough story, Moana is a Mary Sue is some of the criticism I see around here. And let's not forget LMM's involvement which is always a fun topic here

I like the twist with Te Fiti however I'm not sure how original it is because it feels not too far off from Elsa and how she's painted out to be a monster but essentially redeems herself at the end. I don't think Moana is a Mary Sue, but I also don't think she brings anything original that Disney's former heroines haven't already done. And I know a lot of people were ticked off from the marketing and promotion and how Moana (both the character and film) was touted as the best thing Disney had ever created and how basically every film beforehand was dated, sexist, and racist, and only existed so that one day Moana could come into fruition. It really wasn't God's gift to the world despite how it was being made out to be.

Yes, Miranda is a huge can of worms in this forum. I'm glad there isn't a His Dark Materials BBC/HBO thread here because people would lose it over Miranda's new take on a beloved character from the show.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, well I like some of the Revival but not all. Pretty much anything fairy tale, and yet also strangely Zootopia.

Peter Pan, I had read that stuff about him in the book, too, I just forgot the book said he was charming. I didn't get far enough about the lost boys or Hook's end or Peter visiting Wendy again. Well I have gotten to the lost boys getting preyed on through the land as they walk and the pirates follow and the crocodile follow (random, is the crocodile a female in the book?).

I prefer the Disney design of Peter because he looks like he could be 18 and he has brown hair and eyes and pointed ears so I guess it's kind of "bad boy", but I must admit the David Hall one looks more like a little boy and is an innocent and appealing design. Maybe I like the final Disney one also because I'm very attracted to the typical Robin Hood design.

Why do you feel the term Mary Sue is sexist?

There is a His Dark Materials thread here.

Yes, farerb, what was the original twist? I felt like Te Fiti going back to normal when she got her heart back I had seen in plenty nature-related or even just magic-related stories.

[JeanGreyForever]

I think the crocodile is female now that you mention it.

I suppose so although Peter Pan is supposed to be anything but 18. He's not even supposed to have lost any of his baby teeth yet. Also doesn't have he have red hair in the movie, not brown? The pointed ears is another weird decision Disney made which I'm not sure about, alongside claiming that Tinker Bell is a pixie, not a fairy.

Because most often you'll hear people brand female characters Mary Sues whereas similar male characters are rarely ever labeled the male equivalent, Gary Stus. And usually if a female character who is being called a Mary Sue was a male, most fans wouldn't question anything about him. Somehow the character is too perfect or OP if it's a female though.

Yes, I've seen that thread but there's not really any discussion in it.

[thedisneyspirit]

My beef with the Revival is pretty much a compression of what JeanGrey said. Maybe they’re not liked here, but everywhere else where I go it’s always the same song and dance: how the Revival atones for the sins of Disney’s past, how Moana and Tangled are the second coming of Christ, how Zootopia redeemed Disney of past mistakes like Aladdin or Song of the South, and how the new Revival princesses are so much better than the old ones. I sorta feel with the Renassaince and even the Experimental Era we managed to evolve naturally without being so in your face about it.

NOT to mention they just feel samey to me, either I’ve seen these characters before in other kids media or the CGI animation makes them all look like they belong in the same movie, which I don’t like. Add to that the spelled out messages, the cliches we all have gripes with (buddy comedy, twist villain, meta jokes), and they just come off as generic and childish, no different from the typical Dreamworks or Sony out there. I want Disney films to be events, not be similar to the wannabes. And when a genuinely good movie outside the studios comes out, the Awards ceremony praises Disney because brand loyalty. (I’m still salty Princess Kaguya was robbed by BH6).

My beef with Miranda lies pretty much with him claiming ownership of TLM. Despite having an obnoxious fanbase (Hamilton is just alright, not the second coming of Christ guys ) him coming over to make the soundtrack of a new movie isn’t an issue. Howard Ashman was also an outsider when he started out at Disney and gave us magic.

[DC Fan]

Snow White grew up on me. The animation is gorgeous but SW voice and singing is a pain to the ears. Aside from Oliver and Company is the only Classic where the time it was made is reflected on the movie.

Sleeping Beauty was similar to me. However, I didn´t like it because it was too slow paced and nothing much happens. However, the design and animation is amazing. Prince Phillip is the first prince to have a personality. Maleficent is Maleficent. The fairies are very entertaining. And I consider Aurora as the perfect Disney Princess.