Where do collectors go from here?

[milojthatch]

I'll be sticking with physical media until it dies. I don't like the idea of some faceless organization taking away films you've legally paid for, by twisting copyright and ownership laws.

Bingo! I feel the same way!

[GreatGreg]

I think it is a generational thing. The older generation is used to physical media, while the younger generation (<25) embrace it quite well.

[Elladorine]

I mean, it isn't rocket science. And at the end of the day, if you put in the extra few minutes to keep a consistent template going for an entire collection of films, people are going to be more likely to buy them. It would create a stronger brand. I think that's what I'm looking for in something else to collect - something that actually feels like a collection, rather than a hodge-podge of movies that I know ought to be. They used to have this under control back in the VHS and into the DVD days. The Masterpiece Collection, the Gold Collection - all of them were very consistent. They feel like a collection.

And don't forget these.

I think it is a generational thing. The older generation is used to physical media, while the younger generation (<25) embrace it quite well.

I agree that people will have different overall mindsets based on what they grew up with.

Hmm . . . think I could pass for being <25?

[SWillie!]

Ahhhh the Sing Along Songs. Fond memories. And yes! That's a collection, that feels like a collection! (Although what the hell happened to Oliver and Co?) of course theres the Treasures Collection, which is about as good as it gets, and just a couple years back, they had the Disney Animation Short Films Collection, which was also very well done - which shows me that they're still capable of it, and yet they just don't care. The Platinum collection was definitely decent, although I think the inconsistency started there. And it seems that things just continue to get more and more inconsistent as we go along. It's like they grab the newest intern at DHE and say 'okay, we need a cover for the New Groove 2 movie collection. Don't look at any of our previous releases, an just do your own thing.

[GreatGreg]

While the SING ALONG SONG series has (mostly) consistent covers, the songs themselves change quite a bit from volume to volume. Some of them have the bouncing ball, others have highlighted words.

It just goes to show that having a consistent format sustainable over several years (and several management teams) is not realistic, nor conducive to innovation.

Still, I am not one to expect complete consistency. Just give me a kick-ass HD transfer and I will be happy.

[Elladorine]

(Although what the hell happened to Oliver and Co?)

The Oliver & Co. tape seen here was the fifth part of the original set of Sing Along videos, back when they were actually numbered volumes and had the different set of designs. If I recall correctly, that particular volume was skipped over when they redesigned the series for a re-release and dropped the numbers. I'm guessing they didn't bother bringing it back at the time since it was the last original-run theatrical film that didn't result in an immediate home video release, meaning the characters and songs had less exposure than other volumes. And of course, that was the very reason it ended up being my favorite.

[SWillie!]

It just goes to show that having a consistent format sustainable over several years (and several management teams) is not realistic, nor conducive to innovation.

Innovation?? How is slightly changing the placement of a title on a spine innovative? Or putting the edition name on one and not the other? Or not lining the character icon up with previous releases? That's not innovation, that's just apathy. The people who give the final design the OK just don't care enough to compare them directly with previous releases. They're not attempting to be innovative.

Having a consistent format sustainable over several years IS realistic, as it has been done before in the examples I've already cited, and has been proven successful. The Treasures Collection is still one of the most sought after collections Disney has ever released. That was over a period of 9 years, and the design did not change once! And it was because there was someone in charge who cared enough to make sure they were putting out a high quality product. If that's stifling innovation, I certainly don't see how.

Edit: After looking at my Treasures Collection, I see there was a slight design change after the very first wave. The character images on the spine are slightly larger in Wave 1 than in the rest of the collection. Also, I remember that one or two of the releases came in a white case rather than a black one, which I have since switched out. Other than those slight annoyances though... the entire collection is about as good as it gets.

[Elladorine]

They should release something called The Definitive Disney Collection or something along those lines, as a special and consistent treatment of each DAC with a collect-them-all attitude. Stylishly matching cases, full-color artwork on the discs, a generous amount of bonus features, and maybe even included steelbooks. Something that would be the be-all, end-all of Disney releases. At least until the next format comes out.

But this is Disney we're talking about, nothing's been consistent with their home video releases since the early DVD days.

[SWillie!]

They should release something called The Definitive Disney Collection or something along those lines, as a special and consistent treatment of each DAC with a collect-them-all attitude.

We can just rename the thread "things Disney would never ever do." We can dream, can't we?

That would be the ideal collection - even if they weren't the most loaded releases we had ever seen. Hell, I'd settle for just the movie and a solid "making of" if each film was treated equally, with the design sense consistent and all those OCD things taken care of.

[milojthatch]

Hey pro-digital people, check this out:

Update: Is It Legal To Sell Your Old MP3s? Judge Says No.*
by CAITLIN KENNEY
April 01, 2013 5:31 PM


Last month, we reported on a company called ReDigi that's basically a digital version of a used record store. You can sell them your old mp3s, and you can buy "used" mp3s that other people have sold.

Capitol Records sued ReDigi for copyright infringement. Their complaint alleged that "ReDigi makes and assists its users in making systematic, repeated and unauthorized reproductions and distributions of Plaintiffs copyrighted sound recordings."

ReDigi argued that what it does is perfectly legal under the "first sale" doctrine.

The company says that you own the songs, and you should be able to resell them just like you can a physical CD. It says its technology can ensure compliance with copyright law, first by verifying that you legally own a song, and then by removing all traces of the song from your computer and synced devices once you decide to sell it.

A judge in New York disagreed. He just ruled in favor of Capitol:

The novel question presented in this action is whether a digital music file, lawfully made and purchased, may be resold by its owner through ReDigi under the first sale doctrine. The Court determines that it cannot.
...the Court concludes that ReDigi's service infringes Capitol's reproduction rights under any description of the technology. ReDigi stresses that it "migrates" a file from a user's computer to its Cloud Locker, so that the same file is transferred to the ReDigi server and no copying occurs. However, even if that were the case, the fact that a file has moved from one material object – the user's computer – to another – the ReDigi server – means that a reproduction has occurred. Similarly, when a ReDigi user downloads a new purchase from the ReDigi website to her computer, yet another reproduction is created. It is beside the point that the original phonorecord no longer exists. It matters only that a new phonorecord has been created.
The word "phonorecord" was at the heart of this case.

First sale doctorine states that "the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made" is entitled "to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord."

The lawyers for Capitol argued that Redigi couldn't be protected by first sale because the process of selling digital music through their platform created a "new phonorecord." Redigi argued that it was the "same phonorecord."

Jason Schultz, a law professor at UC Berkeley who first told me about the case, was disappointed by the ruling.

He says the term "phonorecord" doesn't work anymore. Copyright law defines phonorecords as "material objects in which sounds, other than those accompanying a motion picture or other audiovisual work, are fixed." Schultz says that's fine for a vinyl record or a book printed on paper, but the digital world doesn't work that way.

"When you don't print a book on pulp anymore, but you download it to a flash memory chip that is in a Kindle, well the material object is there, but have you actually fixed the book in it? " says Schultz. "One could argue no. No digital goods are fixed anymore in any real way, not in the same way as when we print a book or press a record or make a movie reel. These words just don't map anymore."

The judge in this case defined phonorecord in a very specific way. **He ruled that "first sale" doctrine can protect someone who wants to resell a digital work, but only when that person sells "her 'particular' phonorecord, be it a computer hard disk, iPod, or other memory device onto which the file was originally downloaded."**

ReDigi hasn't yet said whether they will appeal the ruling, but Schultz says the case has implications beyond what happens with their company. He argues that defining a "phonorecord" as a physical thing could prevent consumers from reselling all kinds of digital goods.

"There is a lot of value both economic and social that we get from having secondary markets... places like eBay, Amazon, used book stores, libraries are secondary markets where we get to go and borrow books, music, and movies," says Schultz. "All these things depend on the first sale doctrine. This case potentially kills them all off for the digital world."

We'll have a more in depth look at this case and the issues surrounding digital resale on Friday's show.

Update: ReDigi says it will continue to keep its service running and will appeal the judge's ruling. From a statement:

The case has wide ranging, disturbing implications that affect how we as a society will be able to use digital goods.The Order is surprising in light of last month's United States Supreme Courts decision in Kirtsaeng v. Wiley & Sons, which reaffirmed the importance and applicability of the First Sale Doctrine in the United States of America. Also, within the past year the European Court of Justice has also favorably underscored the importance of the "first sale" or the "copyright exhaustion" doctrine and its direct application to digital transactions.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/04/ ... ge-says-no

[SWillie!]

And again, this thread is not about digital vs. physical. Take that elsewhere, please.

[GreatGreg]

It just goes to show that having a consistent format sustainable over several years (and several management teams) is not realistic, nor conducive to innovation.

Innovation?? How is slightly changing the placement of a title on a spine innovative? Or putting the edition name on one and not the other? Or not lining the character icon up with previous releases? That's not innovation, that's just apathy. The people who give the final design the OK just don't care enough to compare them directly with previous releases. They're not attempting to be innovative.

Are you simply talking about box art?

I'm saying that over the years, technology allows for new features that were not available before. Things like Disney's Second Screen were not available for SLEEPING BEAUTY, just as the style for the Sing Along tapes changed over the course of the years.

Having one 'consistent' format may be an apple in someone's eye, but it is unrealistic in today's technological world. We'll be lucky if they can get through all of the DACs in one media format's lifetime.

[SWillie!]

Are you simply talking about box art?

I was, yes. At least at that point in the conversation, I was thinking in terms of physical collectibility - something that *looks* like a complete collection - that's why I was citing things like the Treasures or Sing Alongs. It's the fairly simple attention to detail that today's Disney Home Entertainment seems to be incapable of.

But now that you bring up the technology side - I do understand what you mean, definitely. I guess this side of things doesn't bother me as much, as I am definitely all for innovation. Second Screen is a good example - while I certainly wish they could go and add it to releases that never got it, it doesn't bother me that they can't. Because in this situation, it IS innovation that is driving the decisions, rather than laziness regarding simple product-design concepts. I guess I'm more design-centric when it comes to the collector in me.

[GreatGreg]

You see, that is where this conversation ends for me.

If you are talking box art or DVD/BD art, you will have unlimited sources as long as you have fanpics and real artists that work for commission. Art of Disney stores will be your friend.

[SWillie!]

Well yes, of course there are all kinds of different sources for artwork out there, but I don't think that replaces official Disney releases.

Anyways - speaking of consistency, I've recently been into collecting this line of mugs that have been released in waves on Disneystore.com. The Movie Moments mug collection:


Fantasia and Dumbo are the only ones missing from the picture. Each one is really gorgeous - they use art from the film itself and the original title card logo of the movie. I'm hoping they keep going with this collection - they released the first four films (chronologically), then the next three, then the next three. Each wave was a month or so apart. But it's been a couple months since they had a wave of them, sooo I'm hoping that doesn't mean they're done.

[Avaitor]

Oh wow, I need some of those.

[SWillie!]

Right? They're very nice. And they seem to be selling really well, as they are already all sold out on disneystore.com. I'm hoping they'll at the very least do one more wave to finish off all of Walt's films (minus the package features) - 101 Dalmatians, Sword in the Stone, and Jungle Book.

[Avaitor]

I can't find the Fantasia mug on the site. That's the one I want the most.

[SWillie!]

They're running a little expensive by now since that one was part of the first wave released last year, but you can find a few on eBay right now for 25-30 bucks.

[milojthatch]

And again, this thread is not about digital vs. physical. Take that elsewhere, please.

I never said it was, but this ruling will have an effect on collectors.