Goliath and Lazario....I dedicate this song to you and maybe you two will come to mind and just agree to disagree..... I Think this argument is stupid and I pray you both come to your senses and let bygones be bygones....and quit feuding
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Roseanne's TV Article / Lazario Leaves the Forum
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disneyboy20022
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Want to Hear How I met Roy E. Disney in 2003? Click the link Below
http://fromscreentotheme.com/ThursdayTr ... isney.aspx
http://fromscreentotheme.com/ThursdayTr ... isney.aspx
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Super Aurora
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disneyboy20022 wrote:Goliath and Lazario....I dedicate this song to you and maybe you two will come to mind and just agree to disagree..... I Think this argument is stupid and I pray you both come to your senses and let bygones be bygones....and quit feuding
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0DzrAbLp3WE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This is why Pokemon is so damn awesome.
<i>Please limit signatures to 100 pixels high and 500 pixels wide</i>
http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o68 ... ecf3d2.gif
http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o68 ... ecf3d2.gif
No, THIS is why Pokemon is awesome...Super Aurora wrote:disneyboy20022 wrote:Goliath and Lazario....I dedicate this song to you and maybe you two will come to mind and just agree to disagree..... I Think this argument is stupid and I pray you both come to your senses and let bygones be bygones....and quit feuding
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0DzrAbLp3WE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This is why Pokemon is so damn awesome.
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nZCZ7M_lifM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Laz I wasn't trying to "smack you down" but perhaps I did get a little carried away. But in general I do get annoyed by the implied assumption by Americans and American TV that our TV isn't good enough. It generally gets ignored, shoved away on niche networks as "cult" viewing or we have to suffer the indignity of it being "remade" for the US audience - often with disastrous results which all but miss the point of the original.
But I think I have said this before, but I am genuinely perplexed by the claim that Roseanne was so dramatically different than TV before it.
I don't watch a lot of US TV - our main channels tend not to import as much as they used to and I rarely watch the "new" digital channels which tend to show the same programmes in multiples, several times a week. I simply don't have the time or inclination to have to sit and watch three episodes of The Big Bang Theory or CSI two or three times a week.
But was Roseanne really that different? Surely since the 1950's there's been other shows about working people on TV. Why would so many people want to watch dramas or comedy about people with lifestyles that don't reflect theirs? I can understand why such shows would be popular to some extent - but surely an entire TV landscape of such shows will be like an all-you-can-eat dessert buffet. Eventually, you'll just feel sick.
I also don't understand this obsession with youth. I know we are told the youth have more disposable income than any other age range - that's fair enough and worth targeting. But targeting almost everything at the same market? The US is a huge country with a huge population and I guess that like most countries, has a ever increasing ageing population. They may not have as much money to spend, but they still spend it. And, ironically, they're the segment of the population that watches TV the most. Why isn't there more programmes for "older" viewers.
In the UK Downton Abbey was created last year specifically to appeal to an older audience then most TV dramas and it was a great success, getting some of the highest viewing figures of the year.
I think that there's a problem with the majority of US Television in that it simply goes on too long.
It's hard to sustain a show for around 20 episodes a year for five, six or seven years. You can only sustain a show like that if it is a show that embraces change.
To some extent, Roseanne did. It had to, because it was a show about a family, and unless you're a cartoon family, families tend to grow-up and change. I for one have no problem with the different actresses playing Becky. I really don't know what the issue is with actors and actresses being replaced. Don't you think its a bit selfish for us to expect a person to commit to seven years out of their lives simply to entertain us, when we have no idea of the issues, problems and details of their own lives. In fact, I would praise Roseanne for handling the change the way it did.
But going back to my point, while its possible for dramas to handle and work change into their ongoing narrative, and especially soaps, its difficult for sit-coms to do so.
Had Roseanne simply finished after three or four years I think I would it would have been better. Instead, like most programmes on US TV it became nothing more than a commodity to be churned out in a television factory. Somebody asked if a show was ruined by a poor last season. While I can see their point - it really shouldn't matter if one season was sub-par - it emotionally does, even if logically we all know we can ignore those episodes. Humans still tend to function as emotional rather than logical beings and you simply cannot "unwatch" poor episodes.
I'm not disparaging Roseanne and the hard work she obviously put into the show. Her show. But almost everything I have watched of US TV I tend to find myself getting bored with it (really, how silly can Glee continue to get) or the quality suffers (no matter how much I adore Buffy, even season five which most people tend to be so-so on, season six was a complete disaster and the show never recovered IMO).
Ironically just as I was tiring of the X-Files, they (slowly, too slowly) got rid of Mulder and stirred things up with the introduction of Dogget and Reyes and got me interested again, only for the "fans" to complain and the show to shutter (see my comments on Becky above for my view on that).
But that's not saying UK programmes don't fall into the law of ever diminishing returns - even at 6 or 8 episodes a year every other year or so, far too many of our shows have had their own "jump the shark" moments.
Going back over my post again, perhaps I should make something clear. Being as Britain (in general if you ignore soaps) tends to have short seasons, I guess it is easier to experiment more, as there's no massive upfront commitment to 20+ episodes. However, the aspect Laz seems to find so ground breaking (showing "real people" with "real issues") really isn't out of the ordinary here - most of our drama is like that, and a lot of our comedy uses the British class system as one of the main aspects of humour so most tends to show working class people.
What interest's me about Roseanne is that it was a comedy created, starring and managed by a woman. Again, while I submitted many shows with strong female presences, sometimes showing female struggles and sacrifices TV is still a mainly male dominated medium (as is film, to a much greater extent). And it is still true that it's hard for a woman "of a certain age" to find roles in film or TV in the UK, US or (I would imagine) anywhere else in the world. There seems to be a collective denial that woman are allowed to age and change naturally, or that an "average" woman can be a good wife, mother or even remain single and be a good citizen unless she follows a health and beauty regime.
What's even more interesting about Roseanne is that women doing comedy aren't as common as men. Personally I'd love to see more female comedians/comedy actors but again, its the men who have the power.
Finally Laz, I know this post has jumped around a lot, but I know you are on Netflix. See if you can get The Street ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Street_(TV_series) ) on your queue. I think I read one or two of the seasons are out on DVD over there. It's an amazing series covering every single aspect of human life. It's real drama, affecting real people with real issues.
But I think I have said this before, but I am genuinely perplexed by the claim that Roseanne was so dramatically different than TV before it.
I don't watch a lot of US TV - our main channels tend not to import as much as they used to and I rarely watch the "new" digital channels which tend to show the same programmes in multiples, several times a week. I simply don't have the time or inclination to have to sit and watch three episodes of The Big Bang Theory or CSI two or three times a week.
But was Roseanne really that different? Surely since the 1950's there's been other shows about working people on TV. Why would so many people want to watch dramas or comedy about people with lifestyles that don't reflect theirs? I can understand why such shows would be popular to some extent - but surely an entire TV landscape of such shows will be like an all-you-can-eat dessert buffet. Eventually, you'll just feel sick.
I also don't understand this obsession with youth. I know we are told the youth have more disposable income than any other age range - that's fair enough and worth targeting. But targeting almost everything at the same market? The US is a huge country with a huge population and I guess that like most countries, has a ever increasing ageing population. They may not have as much money to spend, but they still spend it. And, ironically, they're the segment of the population that watches TV the most. Why isn't there more programmes for "older" viewers.
In the UK Downton Abbey was created last year specifically to appeal to an older audience then most TV dramas and it was a great success, getting some of the highest viewing figures of the year.
I think that there's a problem with the majority of US Television in that it simply goes on too long.
It's hard to sustain a show for around 20 episodes a year for five, six or seven years. You can only sustain a show like that if it is a show that embraces change.
To some extent, Roseanne did. It had to, because it was a show about a family, and unless you're a cartoon family, families tend to grow-up and change. I for one have no problem with the different actresses playing Becky. I really don't know what the issue is with actors and actresses being replaced. Don't you think its a bit selfish for us to expect a person to commit to seven years out of their lives simply to entertain us, when we have no idea of the issues, problems and details of their own lives. In fact, I would praise Roseanne for handling the change the way it did.
But going back to my point, while its possible for dramas to handle and work change into their ongoing narrative, and especially soaps, its difficult for sit-coms to do so.
Had Roseanne simply finished after three or four years I think I would it would have been better. Instead, like most programmes on US TV it became nothing more than a commodity to be churned out in a television factory. Somebody asked if a show was ruined by a poor last season. While I can see their point - it really shouldn't matter if one season was sub-par - it emotionally does, even if logically we all know we can ignore those episodes. Humans still tend to function as emotional rather than logical beings and you simply cannot "unwatch" poor episodes.
I'm not disparaging Roseanne and the hard work she obviously put into the show. Her show. But almost everything I have watched of US TV I tend to find myself getting bored with it (really, how silly can Glee continue to get) or the quality suffers (no matter how much I adore Buffy, even season five which most people tend to be so-so on, season six was a complete disaster and the show never recovered IMO).
Ironically just as I was tiring of the X-Files, they (slowly, too slowly) got rid of Mulder and stirred things up with the introduction of Dogget and Reyes and got me interested again, only for the "fans" to complain and the show to shutter (see my comments on Becky above for my view on that).
But that's not saying UK programmes don't fall into the law of ever diminishing returns - even at 6 or 8 episodes a year every other year or so, far too many of our shows have had their own "jump the shark" moments.
Going back over my post again, perhaps I should make something clear. Being as Britain (in general if you ignore soaps) tends to have short seasons, I guess it is easier to experiment more, as there's no massive upfront commitment to 20+ episodes. However, the aspect Laz seems to find so ground breaking (showing "real people" with "real issues") really isn't out of the ordinary here - most of our drama is like that, and a lot of our comedy uses the British class system as one of the main aspects of humour so most tends to show working class people.
What interest's me about Roseanne is that it was a comedy created, starring and managed by a woman. Again, while I submitted many shows with strong female presences, sometimes showing female struggles and sacrifices TV is still a mainly male dominated medium (as is film, to a much greater extent). And it is still true that it's hard for a woman "of a certain age" to find roles in film or TV in the UK, US or (I would imagine) anywhere else in the world. There seems to be a collective denial that woman are allowed to age and change naturally, or that an "average" woman can be a good wife, mother or even remain single and be a good citizen unless she follows a health and beauty regime.
What's even more interesting about Roseanne is that women doing comedy aren't as common as men. Personally I'd love to see more female comedians/comedy actors but again, its the men who have the power.
Finally Laz, I know this post has jumped around a lot, but I know you are on Netflix. See if you can get The Street ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Street_(TV_series) ) on your queue. I think I read one or two of the seasons are out on DVD over there. It's an amazing series covering every single aspect of human life. It's real drama, affecting real people with real issues.
Most of my Blu-ray collection some of my UK discs aren't on their database
The following is off-topic and really shouldn't be here.
Not saying that I can't be nasty. I can be, when I fire back. But the keyword here is 'back'. I don't take myself or this forum very seriously, so I won't make this reply into an essay. But I would just wish people would stop the false equation or the 'where two fight, two are in the wrong' meme. Anybody who's ever been in a fight with the schoolyard bully knows it's not true.
Now I hope this thread continues on-topic. I think 2099net wrote two very good replies and I think it's a good starting point to continue the discussion.
I agree: it is stupid. But like I said to Disney's Divinity, I didn't seek this feud. I've never sought any feud Lazario and me ever had. I know that sounds very holier-than-thou and I wouldn't blame you for being sceptical about it, but it's true. The past few months, I have been responding to lots of threads started by Lazario, and we have politely discussed issues such as movies and music. Then I give him three laughing smilies because he said something silly... and he goes ballastic on me. I was taken completely by surprise, and that's not the first time it happened like this. I can't explain it, I don't know why this keeps happening. It seems like every few months, suddenly, unexpectedly... WHAM! I get smacked down.disneyboy20022 wrote:Goliath and Lazario....I dedicate this song to you and maybe you two will come to mind and just agree to disagree..... I Think this argument is stupid and I pray you both come to your senses and let bygones be bygones....and quit feuding
Not saying that I can't be nasty. I can be, when I fire back. But the keyword here is 'back'. I don't take myself or this forum very seriously, so I won't make this reply into an essay. But I would just wish people would stop the false equation or the 'where two fight, two are in the wrong' meme. Anybody who's ever been in a fight with the schoolyard bully knows it's not true.
Now I hope this thread continues on-topic. I think 2099net wrote two very good replies and I think it's a good starting point to continue the discussion.
Last edited by Goliath on Mon May 23, 2011 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lazario
Yeah, sure Goliath. Nobody ever had a better recounting of events than you. Just ask yourself.
Well, Michael was right. Nobody is paying attention to this fight. In fact, nobody usually pays attention to you. Think what you want. Say whatever. I no longer care. I lost all my respect for you a month ago. Enigmawing (a person who can surely stand up for herself), SWillie!, and anyone who has the profound misfortune of coming across you can take the job of putting up with you. From now on- you're no longer my problem. And I'm not sticking around here to watch you time and time get away with your bullshit either. Like several others, strong people and one-time loyal members, I'm outta here!
As for the rest of y'all... I had a much longer tribute signature but 5 lines and 300 characters is all that's allowed. Directly below is what got cut plus a few other sentiments that needed to be said.
Goodbye, Thank-You's, and MUCH Love to:
Escapay/Albert - of course.
Amy/bc85 - you, Albert, and Enigmawing are The Official UD Saints. Your heart never knew bounds!
Avaitor - the pure definition of awesome!
Dave Wadding - UD's rockstar.
slave2moonlight - for kicking my ass when I deserved it.
Divinity - I know we didn't always agree but I never gave you enough credit.
pap64 - I REALLY hope I see you around somewhere.
dvdjunkie & Little Fuzzy - my favorite fellow horror nuts. Stay old.
2099net - I'm sorry I didn't listen to you more often. I will try to check out your recommendations, that's a promise!
Alice - WHERE THE HELL are you? You had excellent taste in music!!
And thanks for your humor and/or- wish I had gotten to know you better: FlangerHanger, PeterPanfan, Key, SpringHeelJack, David S., Prudence, Duckburger, Chernabog Rocks, James, Sunset Girl, MadonnasManOne, Loomis, Jack Skellington, Enigmawing, Little Red Henski, DisneyDuster, TheValentineBros, Kraken Guard, Jay, ajmrowland, Sotiris, magicalwands, Cordy Biddle, jeremy88, Pasta67, Iceflash, SuperA, buffalobill, Dr. Frankenollie, Alan, Isidour, Jackoleen, anger is pointless, ichabod, Margos, Paka, Zoltack, numba1lostboy, Ting Ting, and everyone I forgot.
Memnv - you deserve a special mention because we fought BITTERLY for a long time and... we got over it. You were cool for awhile and then split. It's days like the ones leading up to this last weekend where I think the forum needs you back.
The rest of you (Siren, PrincePhillipfan, JustMyself, Michael, Julian)- I got you on Facebook. And I can't thank you enough for friend-ing me. Especially Siren, whom I (probably still) owe a few apologies to.
Oh, and... CHRIS- I didn't try to friend you on MySpace because I had a thing for you. That's my way of trying to say you're cool. We've had our fights, and guess what? You were always wrong.
Especially about KFC grilled chicken.
BYE ALL! It's someone else's turn to be the freak.
Well, Michael was right. Nobody is paying attention to this fight. In fact, nobody usually pays attention to you. Think what you want. Say whatever. I no longer care. I lost all my respect for you a month ago. Enigmawing (a person who can surely stand up for herself), SWillie!, and anyone who has the profound misfortune of coming across you can take the job of putting up with you. From now on- you're no longer my problem. And I'm not sticking around here to watch you time and time get away with your bullshit either. Like several others, strong people and one-time loyal members, I'm outta here!
As for the rest of y'all... I had a much longer tribute signature but 5 lines and 300 characters is all that's allowed. Directly below is what got cut plus a few other sentiments that needed to be said.
Goodbye, Thank-You's, and MUCH Love to:
Escapay/Albert - of course.
Amy/bc85 - you, Albert, and Enigmawing are The Official UD Saints. Your heart never knew bounds!
Avaitor - the pure definition of awesome!
Dave Wadding - UD's rockstar.
slave2moonlight - for kicking my ass when I deserved it.
Divinity - I know we didn't always agree but I never gave you enough credit.
pap64 - I REALLY hope I see you around somewhere.
dvdjunkie & Little Fuzzy - my favorite fellow horror nuts. Stay old.
2099net - I'm sorry I didn't listen to you more often. I will try to check out your recommendations, that's a promise!
Alice - WHERE THE HELL are you? You had excellent taste in music!!
And thanks for your humor and/or- wish I had gotten to know you better: FlangerHanger, PeterPanfan, Key, SpringHeelJack, David S., Prudence, Duckburger, Chernabog Rocks, James, Sunset Girl, MadonnasManOne, Loomis, Jack Skellington, Enigmawing, Little Red Henski, DisneyDuster, TheValentineBros, Kraken Guard, Jay, ajmrowland, Sotiris, magicalwands, Cordy Biddle, jeremy88, Pasta67, Iceflash, SuperA, buffalobill, Dr. Frankenollie, Alan, Isidour, Jackoleen, anger is pointless, ichabod, Margos, Paka, Zoltack, numba1lostboy, Ting Ting, and everyone I forgot.
Memnv - you deserve a special mention because we fought BITTERLY for a long time and... we got over it. You were cool for awhile and then split. It's days like the ones leading up to this last weekend where I think the forum needs you back.
The rest of you (Siren, PrincePhillipfan, JustMyself, Michael, Julian)- I got you on Facebook. And I can't thank you enough for friend-ing me. Especially Siren, whom I (probably still) owe a few apologies to.
Oh, and... CHRIS- I didn't try to friend you on MySpace because I had a thing for you. That's my way of trying to say you're cool. We've had our fights, and guess what? You were always wrong.
Especially about KFC grilled chicken.BYE ALL! It's someone else's turn to be the freak.
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Elladorine
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disneyboy20022
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I agree with thisJust Myself wrote:It's a shame to see you go, Laz. I'll miss your posts, they added a spark to most discussions, and I'm glad I'll be able to read your posts on FB. Hopefully, something can be worked out in the future and we can see you return to the forum.
Want to Hear How I met Roy E. Disney in 2003? Click the link Below
http://fromscreentotheme.com/ThursdayTr ... isney.aspx
http://fromscreentotheme.com/ThursdayTr ... isney.aspx
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Dr Frankenollie
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I don't frequent most parts of this forum anymore, so not sure on the details of this whole feud. But I must admit Lazario just up and leaving is a bit silly I mean obviously the forum is something he cares about so just to leave because of whatever it is that happened is a bit odd. But whatever to each his own.
"I have this tremendous energy. I just loved and love life. I love it today. I never want to die."
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