Tangled Discussion Part VI: Let the Drama continue...

All topics relating to Disney-branded content.
Locked
rj.disney
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:46 pm
Location: Philippines
Contact:

Post by rj.disney »

Mobje wrote: www.frs.nl (Rapunzel not listed yet) and www.bol.com ship abroad, but the sites seem to be in Dutch only.
Google translate perhaps?
Or anyone here from Holland who knows if they can be switched to English?
DVD and Blu-ray are Region 2/B though!
Thanks! Google Translate worked fine. And my player's not region-locked :D
"Hey Disney, we still exist!"
-Herc and Quasi
User avatar
Goliath
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4749
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:35 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Goliath »

SWillie, thanks for your well thought-out and nuanced reply. Just to make one thing clear from the get-go: I don't have a problem with you at all, or the way you (usually) post. I just didn't agree with your 'defense' of Duster. That's all. :)

Some of the debates between Duster and me have gone out of hand. Many haven't, because eventually, I mostly give up. After some time it's like talking to a wall. Now, I know that fully well before I start the discussion, but hey... it would be a dull place without any debate, wouldn't you agree? And of course, sometimes I just like to see him explode by slamming Cinderella's character. Yeah, I can be a jerk like that. :D

You're right that most of us already know that debating Duster is mostly futile. You say: then let him talk, he does no harm. That's right, in the grand scheme of things, what's being discussed on here is insignificant. But on the other hand, why should we accept that we are being called "wrong" on almost every subject because he thinks he "knows" what "Walt would have wanted"? It's actually things like that which create hostility on the forum.

Not that I think the forum is hostile, by the way. Everybody has a different level of tolerance toward other people's opinions and a lot of the time, disagreeing opinions get taken way too seriously. I know one member once went completely ballistic because I slammed a certain character in PatF. We're all here because we like Disney. If we just keep that in mind, everything should turn out fine.

Disney's Divinity wrote:[...] Even the way you phrased that last bit makes it seem as if it doesn't really matter what I have to say, because you've already judged me and that's the end of it. That's why I've always said I can't debate with you, because you're not looking for a debate.
That's strange, because that's not any different at all from the way Duster or Lazario debate. I can't count the times Lazario has said things like: "That's just how it is" or Duster has said: "I know for a fact that..."

So I'm still very curious why you have decided to single me out. Because I don't feel that way about you at all.
User avatar
disneyprincess11
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4363
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:46 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Post by disneyprincess11 »

Hey guys! I'm Emily, and I'm new here! I meant to join in December, but wasnt active until today. :D

Anyway, I LOVE Tangled! I saw it twice---Opening and my 17th Birthday which was couple weeks ago...Janauary 29th.

Loved the music and Rapunzel is my 3rd fave Princess! :) My mom and I always cracked up with little Pascal and Maximus. Mother Gothel was a great villian. I personally better like her than Dr. Facilier b/c he killed my fave character in PATF...Ray :( Sorry if I gave it out. I dont how to put in spoilers.
User avatar
SWillie!
Collector's Edition
Posts: 2564
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:28 am

Post by SWillie! »

Goliath, it sounds like we're really more or less on the same page about the whole ordeal. I do agree that it would be dull without any kind of debate going on whatsoever. And I totally understand pushing the buttons, lol... but like I said, (and maybe I took them out of context) I think BigOnes posts are just a big unnecessary overreaction. That's all.



disneyprincess11 - Welcome to the forum! Sorry you had to come in in the middle of a drama-fest.

Don't worry about spoilers about PaTF at this point... everyone on here by now pretty much knows about Ray's death. But for future posts, you do spoiler text by typing this, without any of the spaces in between the brackets:

[color= white] Your spoiler gets typed here. [ /color]

So it looks like this when you do it without the spaces:

Your spoiler gets typed here.
User avatar
Rapunzel
Limited Issue
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:21 am

Post by Rapunzel »

Disney's Divinity wrote: I kind of disagree with that. I mean, I agree that Flynn and Aladdin are fairly different from one another, but I actually feel the reverse. Aladdin never really seemed to care as much about money. He dreamed of being in a better place, of getting respect--of not being a street rat--but that was never a goal he really pursued, just something he wanted. Well, he did go to the Cave of Wonders, but that's pretty much the end of any I-want-to-be-rich storyline there might've been. Even later, when he becomes "Prince Ali," it's all about impressing Jasmine, and nothing about money.

Flynn, on the other hand, when we first meet him is all about money. Whereas Aladdin stole "only what [he] can't afford," Flynn steals out of greed, for appearances' sake. And he doesn't want to share what he has either (unlike Aladdin). I mean, I'm not quite sure how "he isn't trying to be anyone other than who he is" if he doesn't even use his real name and keeps his real identity a secret. I think he ends up having a similar character arc to Aladdin though, about being sincere and not lying about who he really is.


I think I see what you mean. Okay, I can see how Flynn was more money obsessed and yes he was lying about who he was. When I said that Flynn was not trying to be someone else, I meant that Flynn steals and is a thief and he seems comfortable with that kind of life and as long as he gets riches to himself he is fine with it. That is until Rapunzel shows him what life could be about. Then he remembers that he wanted to be a good guy like the Flynn Rider of his stories.

Aladdin on the other hand does not want to be a "street rat" and makes it very clear that his way of living makes him unhappy. His goals are different. He wants to be someone important who could marry a princess. So I feel like he has more of the "I want" syndrome going on. Of course he is the main character in his story, so it makes sense that he would have a "I want" story. Like how Ariel wants to be on land, Belle wants a new life, and Mulan doesn't want to be married off.

So, I guess I should say I see your point. They do both have similar character arcs. I was just thinking that Flynn embraces his lifestyle at the beginning, while Aladdin wants out of it from the get-go and isn't happy being who he is.
Disney's Divinity wrote:
I mostly agree with you on Rapunzel and Ariel though. With Rapunzel, there's more internal conflict. Still, in Ariel's defense, I think Mermaid shows that Ariel does care about the people around her--she saves several lives throughout the movie. And she often seems to have a lot of friends that want to help her, and you don't get those by being mean and self-centered. Of course, you could argue that she treats Triton badly by running away, but--if I was her--I would just want to get away from him, too. A person's relationship with their parents is often very different than their relationships with others. Plus, Rapunzel's only human interaction before Flynn is Gothel, so she's not exactly in a "normal" situation like Ariel is--she doesn't think of herself as independent of her mother, because she's never been (and she's never seen other children leave the nest either).
I agree with you on all that. I really like Ariel. She just has a different life than Rapunzel.
Disney's Divinity wrote:Yeah, I don't think there's the same "I hate you!" attitude between Flynn and Rapunzel, but until the fire scene, Flynn really doesn't want to be there. He kind of has disdain for having to "babysit" Rapunzel and takes her to the bar to scare her. Rapunzel is just too excited to even care who she's with. But the fire scene does have the same function as in TP&TF--they learn more about each other, and open up to one another finally.
I agree with you on this too.
"you came for your darling, but the sweet bird sits no longer in the nest, and sings no more"
User avatar
Disney's Divinity
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 16239
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
Gender: Male

Post by Disney's Divinity »

To Rapunzel, about Flynn/Aladdin: Oh, okay. I really wasn't sure what you were saying there. :lol: I agree now.
Goliath wrote:That's strange, because that's not any different at all from the way Duster or Lazario debate. I can't count the times Lazario has said things like: "That's just how it is" or Duster has said: "I know for a fact that..."

So I'm still very curious why you have decided to single me out. Because I don't feel that way about you at all.
Probably because I rarely come into contact with them on the forum these days. I mean, we rarely discuss the same things. Whereas you're in every topic, so I discuss with you more often. But I have had frustrating debates with them, too, in the past. Lazario, in particular, can turn into a monster at any moment based on something random you said. With DDuster, I've usually come to avoid the things I know we won't agree on.
Image
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
User avatar
Patrick
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 6:39 am

Post by Patrick »

So I started collecting Disney's mini snowglobes because they're so cute and cheap.. and I just found a picture of this on hellyeahtangled.tumblr.com. Has anyone seen them in stores? I'm hoping it's not a park thing...

Image
User avatar
disneyprincess11
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4363
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:46 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Post by disneyprincess11 »

[quote="SWillie!"][b]Goliath[/b], it sounds like we're really more or less on the same page about the whole ordeal. I do agree that it would be dull without any kind of debate going on whatsoever. And I totally understand pushing the buttons, lol... but like I said, (and maybe I took them out of context) I think BigOnes posts are just a big unnecessary overreaction. That's all.



[b]disneyprincess11[/b] - Welcome to the forum! Sorry you had to come in in the middle of a drama-fest.

Don't worry about spoilers about PaTF at this point... everyone on here by now pretty much knows about Ray's death. But for future posts, you do spoiler text by typing this, without any of the spaces in between the brackets:

[color= white] Your spoiler gets typed here. [ /color]

So it looks like this when you do it without the spaces:

[color=white]Your spoiler gets typed here.[/color][/quote]

Thanks and thanks! :D

[quote="Patrick"]So I started collecting Disney's mini snowglobes because they're so cute and cheap.. and I just found a picture of this on hellyeahtangled.tumblr.com. Has anyone seen them in stores? I'm hoping it's not a park thing...

[img]http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg62x ... o1_500.jpg[/img][/quote]

*LE GASP* I wantz! :o
User avatar
Goliath
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4749
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:35 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Goliath »

Disney's Divinity wrote:Whereas you're in every topic, so I discuss with you more often.
Yeah, I'm pretty inescapable! :D
User avatar
Elladorine
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4372
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: SouthernCaliforniaLiscious SunnyWingadocious
Contact:

Post by Elladorine »

Patrick wrote:So I started collecting Disney's mini snowglobes because they're so cute and cheap.. and I just found a picture of this on hellyeahtangled.tumblr.com. Has anyone seen them in stores? I'm hoping it's not a park thing...
Oh shoot, you know I think I've seen them at the Disney Store but I can't remember now. And if taoayumu's the one that posted it, it's quite likely . . . we probably shop at the same Disney Store. XD
Image
User avatar
Super Aurora
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4835
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:59 am

Post by Super Aurora »

Goliath wrote:
Disney's Divinity wrote:Whereas you're in every topic, so I discuss with you more often.
Yeah, I'm pretty inescapable! :D

Image
<i>Please limit signatures to 100 pixels high and 500 pixels wide</i>
http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o68 ... ecf3d2.gif
User avatar
Patrick
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 6:39 am

Post by Patrick »

enigmawing wrote:Oh shoot, you know I think I've seen them at the Disney Store but I can't remember now. And if taoayumu's the one that posted it, it's quite likely . . . we probably shop at the same Disney Store. XD
Ahh I hope so. I actually called the one closest to me and they said they had a medium sized one that sells for $24.50 and plays a song. But judging by the size of that tag, I'm pretty sure this is one of the mini ones. :( And.. I really want it. xD The new Dumbo, Jack Skellington and Lady and the Tramp ones are really adorable. And that's so crazy you guys are so close!

Edit: Oh wait, I lied! The tag actually says it plays a song! Hmm... so I wonder how tall it is, then? I'll have to investigate tomorrow. :lol:
User avatar
Elladorine
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4372
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: SouthernCaliforniaLiscious SunnyWingadocious
Contact:

Post by Elladorine »

Patrick wrote:
enigmawing wrote:Oh shoot, you know I think I've seen them at the Disney Store but I can't remember now. And if taoayumu's the one that posted it, it's quite likely . . . we probably shop at the same Disney Store. XD
Ahh I hope so. I actually called the one closest to me and they said they had a medium sized one that sells for $24.50 and plays a song. But judging by the size of that tag, I'm pretty sure this is one of the mini ones. :( And.. I really want it. xD The new Dumbo, Jack Skellington and Lady and the Tramp ones are really adorable. And that's so crazy you guys are so close!

Edit: Oh wait, I lied! The tag actually says it plays a song! Hmm... so I wonder how tall it is, then? I'll have to investigate tomorrow. :lol:
I just happened to notice that she and I live in the same city, and we've only got one "regular" Disney Store here, lol.

I wish I'd have paid more attention but I was fully focused on getting to the clearance area for some aluminum Jack Skellington water bottles (they were cheap)! I think it might have been medium-sized though; I don't remember seeing any Tangled minis (I've been thinking about collecting those myself).
Image
User avatar
Patrick
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 6:39 am

Post by Patrick »

enigmawing wrote:I wish I'd have paid more attention but I was fully focused on getting to the clearance area for some aluminum Jack Skellington water bottles (they were cheap)! I think it might have been medium-sized though; I don't remember seeing any Tangled minis (I've been thinking about collecting those myself).
Well the Cinderella snow globe is on the website right now at a clearance price of $2.99 if you're interested! :lol: It's weird because that's the only image of the Tangled snow globe I can find... I'll report back after I go check it out. Maybe I'll look around for some Jack water bottles, too bahaha :)
TheValentineBros
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1119
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:26 am
Contact:

Post by TheValentineBros »

Super Aurora wrote:
Goliath wrote: Yeah, I'm pretty inescapable! :D

Image
:lol:
Image
User avatar
Rapunzel
Limited Issue
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:21 am

Post by Rapunzel »

Those mini globes are cute. I'd love to see a photo of your collecion...and the Tangled one if anyone finds it. Next to something that you can compare the size of it.
"you came for your darling, but the sweet bird sits no longer in the nest, and sings no more"
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 21073
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Post by Sotiris »

Alan Menken Interview: Tangled, Movie Scores, Musicals, Enchanted 2, Snow Queen and More
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/725326/ ... _more.html

Q: Are my ears deceiving me, or did you sneak a music cue from Beauty And The Beast right near the beginning of Tangled?

A: It might be there inadvertently! There is one thing that is advertent, which is somewhere in the film, but I won't tell you where. Oh, I will tell you where! I'll give you a clue.

There's a two-measure, big swell, that is basically the same, I don't know if it's the same key, but it's right out of Enchanted. It's in the film, and it's almost in an analogous spot from the spot in Enchanted.
Q: The thing that intrigues me about your work is that it's across so many different collaborations and tones. You take your work on Hunchback Of Notre Dame, which goes to some really dark places, for instance. Presumably, the differing collaborations work very well for you?

A: Yeah. Most of my collaborations, certainly post-Howard Ashman but even with Howard, are music first.

Before I met any of these collaborators, I was a lyricist, and a good one. When I write the music for any of my songs, I write as a composer-lyricist in my head. I know whether or not I'm writing the words in my head or not. I know the conversation. I know what is going on dramatically, and I know what my pre-conceptions.

So, I guess the answer here is that, in a sense, I can function as a common denominator dramatically, because I have a sense of what I want dramatically.

Q: Are you not tempted to take on the lyrics for one of these films? That must be a temptation?

A: Yeah, that's a temptation. I have. After Howard died, I wrote some of the songs for Aladdin. But the problem is that a) writing lyrics is far more time consuming, and b) there's a lot of nit-picky stuff that happens that I frankly don't have the patience for.

I've been blessed by having wonderful lyricists. Whatever I gain from writing lyrics, I feel I lose a little bit for the musical aspect by having that lyrical burden on me. But when I'm liberated from worrying about the words, frankly, I feel I'm a better composer.
Q: What you seem to have with the directors on Tangled is coming back to the ethos of Disney in the late 80s, early 90s. Nathan Greno and Byron Howard are young, very driven, and seem almost fearless.

Yet, you're in a very different position now to how you were back in the time of The Little Mermaid and Beauty And The Beast. You have a far more extensive backlog of credits and experience. So, how does the mechanic change for you? Presumably, the directors are respectful of your work?

A: Respectful, yeah. And we're separated by at least 20 years of age. People want to establish their own ground. So, when you bring in the sort of ‘old master', that can be a little bit daunted. So, on the one hand they're respectful, and on the other they go, "No, Alan. We don't want that, we want this." And there are times I have to go [zips mouth].

There's a place in the movie where I had a concept for the score. We had initially had a song for the character Flynn. Where he sang a sea shanty. He was singing about what he wanted in his life and his father used to sing him this lullaby. So, it's a lusty sea shanty, then he sings it wistfully, and then later on, she sings it to him in a tender way. And the song got cut. Okay, fine.

But when we meet Flynn, I said I can almost see this being a Robin Hood moment and really going for that swashbuckling, big, thematic chase. And so, I wrote the cut that way, and the directors said, "Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. No, no, no, no, no, no, no."

There was a lot of nervousness, and there was a temptation to get defensive and say, "Guys, this is what we talked about." Sorry, I'll try it again...!
Q: There seems a fear. Lots of films had songs for the sake of it for a while, but we went through a spate of animated films with two or three music CDs for little reason. Do you think we're getting the anti-reaction now?

A: Yes, yes. The way I see it is that there's a wide spectrum of what a musical is. At one end of the spectrum you could say is Hunchback and Beauty And The Beast. At the other end of the spectrum, and I'm talking Disney musicals now, you could say Tarzan and Emperor's New Groove, which are basically pop-driven. And then there's all the stuff in between.

And at any given part of the process, they're going to be going, "We want this. No, we want that. No, that. We want that."

So, it's always navigating what kind of musical is this. And frankly, Tangled is certainly far from your classic break into song musical. It's essentially an action-adventure, romantic comedy with songs. If people respond to the songs, it could become a musical. That could happen. At the same time, it could almost be something that exists without songs.

There is, at Disney, always a constant questioning about what is a musical. Musicals can be very dangerous. Because a) they're expensive, and b) they either respond to them and it's big, or they respond to them not at all.
Q: We're in danger of losing an art. In Tangled, we have a proper score, a different score, one with its own identity. Yet, for you as a composer, watching what's happened with movies, you're doing stage musicals and theatre now. Presumably, there must be a reason for that?

A: I came from theatre, of course. But yes, right now, I have nothing in the pipeline for Disney.

Q: Nothing at all?

A: No. Snow Queen is not happening. That could turn around like that.

Q: The film version of the Beauty And The Beast Broadway musical?

A: That was canned.

Q: So, nothing?

A: I'm on [stage musicals] Sister Act, Leap Of Faith. I'm developing a musical. An MGM-RKO idea.

Q: From scratch?

A: Yeah. It's an original idea I'm working on, with David Zippel.

With Disney, whether there's going to be a sequel to Enchanted? Right now? No.

Q: Would you like there to be? You're not a sequel person, really.

A: I've never had a sequel. That's true.

I don't know what's going to be. But honestly, I'm fine with or without there being more!
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Toky
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:18 am
Location: the Netherlands

Post by Toky »

heey, i noticed people were talking about dutch sites to order the Rapunzel dvd...
Bol.com as well as FRS.nl do not ship to foreign countries as im aware of.. I think the best way is to search ebay or maybe try marktplaats.nl its a dutch site(person to person), but the chance of finding a person who wants to sent a package abroad is very small...
mmm maybe i'll go and search for some dutch sites that do ship abroad..

i dont know if you ever thought about shipping things overseas between people on the forum here(but i dont know how much the shipping cost will be) ;)
greets


Edit: I just found out they did ship abroad, silly me...on bol.com the shipping costs to north america are 17,35 euros(be aware these sites don't guarantee slip-covers)...and be aware of costs that will be charged when a package crosses the border, if it eventually even will....
maybe there are american sites, were more people can order something and all the packages will be shipped togheter, sort of community-order...there are dutch sites, which do the same for american e-shops..:)
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 21073
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Post by Sotiris »

"Rapunzel" Characters Line-up (Old Version)

Image

For larger version of the image, click here:
http://cosmoanimato.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... rsion.html
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
pinkrenata
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1915
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:33 pm
Location: Mini Van Highway
Contact:

Post by pinkrenata »

So, is the guy next to Rapunzel supposed to be the love interest? If so, Disney almost used the fat guy/tiny girl formula (very popular in sitcoms, particularly on CBS).

Not that I'm necessarily against this, you just rarely see it used the opposite way.
WIST #1 (The pinkrenata Edition) -- Kram Nebuer: *mouth full of Oreos* Why do you have a picture of Bobby Driscoll?

"I'm a nudist!" - Tommy Kirk
Locked