How to be Tactful at the UltimateDisney/DVDizzy Forums

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pap64
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How to be Tactful at the UltimateDisney/DVDizzy Forums

Post by pap64 »

How to be Tactful at the UltimateDisney/DVDizzy Forums

There's no denying it. UltimateDisney/DVDizzy is a great community, filled with some of the smartest, creative and funny people around. But even then, things can get a little out of control, especially during heated debates. This is where a little thing called tact comes in...

Before I begin, I just want to state that I am NOT singling anyone out with this thread. This is for ALL OF US, myself included, since all of us have made these mistakes in the past and we all could use a refresher course on forum etiquette.

Without further delay, here is how to be tactful at UltimateDisney/DVDizzy.

What is tact?

Dictionary.com defines tact as a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense and a skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations.

In other words, tact is knowing what to say and how to say it at the right time. This might seem like an impossible thing for some, but it is possible. Regardless of how touchy a topic might seem, you can have a healthy debate without intentionally/unintentionally making anyone feel offended or upset. Tact starts with you.

Here are a few tips as to how to be tactful at the UltimateDisney/DVDizzy Forums.


Insults never help

Let's face it, insults and swearing are a part of our daily lives. Whether it’s done by us or by the people around us, it is an unavoidable form of communication. We may curse when we are angry, we may insult when we feel threatened or judged unfairly. Sometimes we may even curse when we are very happy. However, constantly swearing can make you look less intelligent than what you really are, especially if you do it often. If you rely on insulting the other poster when debating, then people might label you as someone that can't handle himself in a debate. There are millions of words in the English language. We do not need to resort to swearing to get our point across.

Ideally, posters should refrain from insulting anyone or using swear words to present an argument. It doesn't matter if the debate is extremely heated and the other poster(s) is/are bothering you. Keep your cool and focus on what you want to say rather than swearing worse than a over-excited sailor on a Saturday night.

This goes triple for racial slurs. Freedom of speech or not, such language is inexcusable and can never be justified.

Speaking of which...


If you are getting too angry or upset, take a step back, breathe, and leave the discussion

Sometimes, debates can get so heated that we get very upset with what we are reading. This is because there are two people with different arguments, and neither of them want to admit defeat or come to terms with what the other has to say. If you are beginning to get really angry, leave the discussion. There are plenty of discussions on the forum to partake in. Calm down in other discussions, and when you feel you can return to another discussion, you can. It's still there, after all, it didn't go anywhere.

When we are angry we often lose control of what we say, and at times this can lead us to saying things we later regret, such as very personal insults. If the thread is bothering you, it may be better to not say anything. Remember what Thumper said, "If you can't say something nice, don't say [anything] at all." Which leads me to the next tip...


It's just a debate

Many of us love to discuss our favorite subjects, and can get pretty passionate during some debates. We may hate reading a dissenting opinion, simply because such a point of view just does not "click" with how we view things. Those opinions are just as valid as your own. But at the end of the day, it's just a debate. Try to not take it too seriously. This isn't the debate club. No prizes are on the line, a school's pride isn't dependent on your skills, nor you will "win" the internet.

That's not to say you don't get some satisfaction out of a great discussion, but it isn't healthy to be so adamant about proving a stranger wrong. Who knows, maybe you'll learn more about a subject when you read about it from another person's point of view. They are allowed to offer their opinion just as you can offer yours. And that leads to the next tip.


Opinions are NOT Fact

This is one of the most common mistakes not just on the internet but on the real world as well. People believe that opinion is indeed fact, that the way they view a particular topic must be the right way. After all, it makes sense to them, right? So why doesn't it make sense to someone else? Obviously, they don't understand it how you do.

Don't ever think that way. When we do, and our opinion conflicts with another's, it can lead to people fighting about it as if it were the end of the world.

Want to know the difference between fact and opinion?
  • Fact: The four seasons are Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter.

    Opinion: Winter stinks. Save for Christmas, I hate the snow and the cold.
See? Fact confirms a truth, something that can't be denied regardless of what anyone says. Opinion, however, is the complete opposite. They are formed out of the thoughts, beliefs and knowledge of a person. They represent the ideas of said individual, and those CAN be debated.

Opinions can easily clash because they represent a very personal side of the poster. This being a Disney forum, the Disney films can mean a lot of people. Don't be too surprised if someone says that (insert Disney Movie A) stinks and someone else is arguing about it.

Like I said, opinion can be debated. But they are never fact, so you can't say that they are RIGHT or they are WRONG. You can AGREE or DISAGREE. But you cannot tell someone their opinion is wrong. It's theirs, not yours.

Here are examples of what NOT to do...
  • Poster 1: I'm not a big fan of Sleeping Beauty. The animation is beautiful and so is the music, but the overall storyline is weak. I like Maleficent, but everyone else feel dry. I think it's the weakest Disney film in their canon.

    Poster 2: You are wrong! Disney and his team did their best to bring us a beautifully illustrated world complete with characters we can relate to. I KNOW they accomplished this, and you are wrong for thinking otherwise.
What did Poster 2 do wrong? They believe that their opinion is the right one, and so when they see one that doesn't fit into their opinion, it must be wrong. There is no right or wrong to an opinion, just an ability to agree or disagree.

Here is how it should be handled:
  • Poster 1: I'm not a big fan of Sleeping Beauty. The animation is beautiful and so is the music, but the overall storyline is weak. I like Maleficent, but everyone else feel dry. I think it's the weakest Disney film in their canon.

    Poster 2: I disagree. I do agree that the story is kind of light, but the visuals and music are strong enough that I feel it makes for an enjoyable movie experience. I personally like the three good fairies the best as they add a lot of character and charm. But It was interesting to read how you feel about the film.
See how that went? There was a debate but both posters kept their cool. Even if this leads to a very long discussion, everyone will be willing to participate because there is no tension and no one feels that they are wrong, they just share different points of view.

Finally, remember that opinions can be formed in a small or long amount of time. And people often stick to their opinions. If someone did not like The Hunchback of Notre Dame for the past ten years, five minutes of arguing on the internet will not change that. Respect that a person's opinion is their own, but don't try to change it simply because you disagree with it.

You can be open to listening/understanding another person's opinion. But to intentionally try and change can be pretty futile. If they do change it, let them do it on their terms. Not because you want them to. You only know your fellow poster through the words they type. There may be a variety of reasons why they feel certain ways about certain topics. And that brings me to my next helpful tip.


Don't be quick to judge

Often we get full of ourselves, especially those that have been on forums for years and know how to handle a discussion. We start believing that we know how the other posters think and thus we start to judge them on how they post, how they think, and how they make their statements.

Unfortunately, you don't. No one does.

No matter how much you claim to know how forums work, the human mind is complex. Just because they said something familiar it doesn't mean that they DO think that way all the time. They are an individual with their own thoughts and feelings. Similarities between another individual are just that, similarities. It does not make them one and the same, no matter how many or how little similarities exist between how many or how little people. For example...
  • Poster 1: I think the Disney package films are very underrated. They may not be rich in extensive narratives but they do offer a lot of fun stories, some of them featuring stunning visuals and unforgettable music.

    Poster 2: I hope you realize that you are the only Disney fan that feels this way. The rest of us think they're worthless.
What does Poster 2 do wrong? Poster 2 immediately isolated Poster 1 based on one opinion. Does Poster 2 know every Disney fan? Can Poster 2 speak for every Disney fan? No. Poster 2 can only speak for themselves.

Simply put, it's annoying. Trying to psychoanalyze a poster during a debate in order to create a discussion will make you look ignorant to actual psychoanalysis, as well as just looking like a jerk. This is a discussion forum, not a Psychology class. There is no need for an "I know you and how you act" attitude. Psychologists even know this. One of the first things they are taught when dealing with trauma patients is to never say "I know how you feel." You don't know how they feel. You may sympathize/empathize with their feelings. But how they feel is something that belongs to them. You can make comparisons, but you can never say you know what they are feeling. That would be extremely arrogant of you. You are not inside their head, you don't really "know" them, only what they are saying. Focus on your discussion instead. Since debating often deals getting involved with the other person, here is our next rule..

Be careful with how you address people
Often in a discussion forum, we want to talk directly to people, either because we like their argument or we want to debate it. That's fine and good, but how you decide to address them makes a huge difference between letting the thread continue smoothly or letting it go to hell.

Here's an example of what not to do:
  • Poster 1: Hannah Montana is overrated. I doubt that its target audience is interested in it. It's shallow bubblegum pop at its worst.

    Poster 2: Excuse me, but are YOU a parent? If you were, then you would have known that Hannah Montana is very popular among teenage girls right now.
What poster 2 did is address poster 1 in the most rude manner possible. Granted, poster 1 did open himself to the argument since he made a broad statement about Hannah Montana fans without truly thinking about it, but poster 2 could have fought that comment without being rude. It all goes back to the rule of not pre-judging posters, because it's likely that poster 1 just lacks the information needed to complete his argument.

Here's how it should be done:
  • Poster 1: Hannah Montana is overrated. I doubt that its target audience is interested in it. It's shallow bubblegum pop at its worst.

    Poster 2: Actually, I am the parent of a 12 year old and she LOVES Hannah Montana. Her friends are also big fans so there is an audience for this kind of music. It also helps that at the moment Hannah Montana is one of Disney's most profitable franchises at the moment.

    Poster 1: I didn't know that. I still don't like her, though, but I understand who might enjoy her.
See the difference? Instead of belittling poster 1 due to his misinformation, poster 2 used the right kind of words to address his thoughts and the point still came across.

Just because no direct insults were made it doesn't mean that you were tactful. It shows that you lack manners when it comes to starting a conversation, and in the worst case scenario, you don't know how to disagree with people in an argument. It's best to try and talk to a poster in the most neutral way possible. But that doesn't mean the poster has to be a stranger...


Get to know the poster better

We get many new members each day. Some are veterans of the internet, others are still learning the ropes, but regardless if we've been here five days or five years, we still will make mistakes. If a posting style or a comment bothers you, don't insult them. Once again, you don't know who these people are. They might act that way because they are young, they don't know that what they are doing is wrong, and most important, they might not have control over the attitude due to a disease. None of those are reasons for you to insult them.

Instead, try to be friends with them. Help them by pointing out what is acceptable and isn't. We have a helpful UD Forum Posting Guidelines and Helpful Links thread that helps many new members get acquainted with the forums. There are threads for introductions, and a whole Off-Topic Forum where they can introduce themselves in their own thread if they wish.

They may like to write a certain way, they may like posting about certain things. If they decide to change, it's a change on their terms, not yours. Don't jump on their throats simply because you don't understand how they work. If you want to jump on their throat, take a step back and think about this next tip...


Think before you write

Sometimes a discussion will get so heated that we rush to write what we think, or at times we don't think at all and just write. Some of us can't help it, but it's certainly something we can work on changing. ;)

If you start thinking that what you are going to say might offend people, it may be best to not say it. Or rather, think about how you can say it without offending anyone, or if it's worth saying at all. If you are going to insult or judge a poster in what you say, put yourself in their shoes first. How would you feel if someone called you out unfairly? What would happen if someone claimed that you are something you aren't? If any of those upset you, then you shouldn't do it yourself.

The key word here is thinking. It's not that hard to do, and the more well-thought a post is, the more people will respect you for it.

The other key word we have is change, which has been discussed earlier here and is our next tip...


Tactful doesn't mean changing your whole personality

OK, so it's likely that you are reading this and saying to yourself, "What? Is he asking ME to change the way I post? Forget it! This is who I am, and this is what I will always be!"

We are not asking you to drastically change your posting style or your personality. You can still be any kind of poster you want to be and still be tactful towards others. Tact is flexible enough that you can be any personality type and be courteous towards others. Like the definition says, it is about what you say and how you say it. It's best to know what to say, and whether or not it's worth saying as we go to our next tip...


If the topic is controversial, it might be wise to not post it

Yeah, I realize that this might be some form of censorship. But if a certain topic has been known to cause trouble in the past, and it's against the rules, don't post about it. If you dive deep into a controversial topic and are tactless about it then its going to be disastrous.

The official guidelines for what kind of topics to post about merely say "Use your best judgment." And that is true, use your best judgment. Get a feel for what kind of topics are met with open arms and what topics generally are considered too controversial or too mature. Even adding a disclaimer like "For Mature Readers Only" is an invitation for controversy.

Remember, the forums are Disney-focused. Families read the topics. Children will be reading the forums, either with their parents or on their own. The minimum age for posting is 13, and while the average age of posters here is in the 18-24 range, that does not mean only people 18 and above are reading. Be considerate of that. Be considerate of every topic. There is no need to go into one with the intent on riling up the people discussing in that topic. And that goes great with the next tip.


Don't troll topics

This is one rule that is universal and appears on all forums. Trolling is when you constantly post negative comments about a topic just to get a reaction out of the participants. Most people know trolls as being like this...
  • Poster 1: I like Beauty and the Beast.

    Poster 2: So do I!

    Troll 1: BAH YOU GUYS SUCK, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST IS FOR GAY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LULZ!

    Poster 1: *sigh* another troll.

    Troll 1: YOU GUYS ARE IDIOTS FOR LIKING THIS CRAP!

    Poster 3: Don't feed it. What do you think of the ballroom scene?

    Poster 1: It's my favorite part of the movie.

    Troll 1: PAY ATTENTION TO ME! WHAT I SAY IS SUPPOSED TO GET YOU MAD!

    Poster 2: I always loved "Belle" in the beginning. Such a memorable song.

    Poster 4: I disagree. I think "Belle" isn't that memorable. It's got a great melody and does its job, but there are other songs in the movie that I'll remember.

    Poster 1: Interesting. Thanks for sharing, Poster 4.

    Poster 4: You're welcome, Poster 1.

    Troll 1: ...fine, I'll go somewhere else and wreak havoc.

    Moderator 1: No, you won't. I've given you a warning. If you don't stop trolling, you'll get banned.
That is obvious trolling, and is not tolerated.

However, there is also such a thing as intellectual trolling, which is when the troll in question indirectly insults the topic and the posters in a calm and intellectual manner, but the intentions remain the same. How do you detect this? When the poster has mentioned several times how he and she dislikes the topic but still comes back to it to post his or her negative opinions thinking that he or she is contributing to it. Let's revisit our posters and see how an intellectual troll would be trolling.
  • Poster 1: Anyone catch last night's episode of "Joe and Bob"?

    Poster 2: I did. It was very funny.

    Troll 1: "Joe and Bob" isn't every funny. I don't know how it ever got on the air or why people watch it. They must be on something.

    (a week later)

    Poster 1: Oh man, "Joe and Bob" was great last night! I loved that scene with the toilet plunger and the duck!

    Poster 3: Yeah, that part was hilarious!

    Poster 2: I missed it last night. Will have to watch on Hulu.

    Troll 1: Poster 2, why waste your time with "Joe and Bob"? You should watch a show that's actually worth your time and watch "Bob and Joe". It's so much better and is actually funny! People who watch "Bob and Joe" actually have taste, and you certainly have taste, don't you?
Simply put, if you don't care for the topic then don't post. Sure, you can express your opinion, but if you insist of belittling everyone else, it is not contributing positively to the topic at hand and that can lead to problems. The UltimateDisney/DVDizzy Forums generally prefer for people to get along. And speaking of the forums...


UltimateDisney/DVDizzy is not like every other forum

Let's pretend that you are a new member to UltimateDisney/DVDizzy. Now, in your old forum some things were acceptable. You try to do these things here and you get scolded for it. You might be saying “But why?? This was ACCEPTABLE on my old forum!”. That's because UltimateDisney/DVDizzy is not your old forum. It was founded under different rules, different trains of thought and different ideas. Please respect those rules if you wish to be a member of the forums. What may have been acceptable on that forum doesn't mean it will be quickly adopted here. Rather than acting as if everything is acceptable, read the rules, consult other members or the moderators and start off neutrally. Speaking of the moderators...


When in doubt, contact the moderators

Try not to take justice into your own hands. In the event that a discussion is getting extremely heated and another person is insulting you in a harsh manner, don't try and fight back. In addition, don't assume a position of authority and blatantly say "Okay everyone, stop, move on, end of discussion." You don't have that power on the forum, no matter how annoyed you are at the argument or how long you've been here.

Instead, contact one of the moderators, explain to them what is going on and direct them to the thread. They will take care of it. That's what they're there for.

At the same time, remember that they're only human, and that they're not monitoring the forums 24/7. If something slips by that you think they should have noticed, contact them. They can't keep one eye on the forums and the other on the rest of their life.

Why do I mention this? Because the road to becoming more tact starts with handling tense situations in the right manner. Speaking of handling situations...


Be careful when being funny

Sometimes we hide our anger behind a joke. But not everyone reads a post the way you intend. You may mean something in jest, but they may take it seriously.

Simply, be careful when you're being funny. Yes, some of us are naturally humorous by nature, and like to work harmless little funnies into what we say. But sometimes, we use humor as a defense mechanism. We use it to hide our true feelings. A friend of mine once said "humor is just anger with its make-up on." It's a very good comparison.

There's a time and a place to be funny. They can help alleviate a tense discussion, but sometimes being funny during a tense discussion can be taken the wrong way. You may think that what you say is hilarious, when in reality it can be hurtful. Everyone reads words differently, don't assume everyone will read it the way you do. Speaking of how words are read differently...

Be careful of what words you use to describe something bad
There are many negative adjectives to describe something that is bad. Stupid, mediocre, annoying, plain 'ol bad, terrible, horrible, annoying and many more. So why insist on using words like "gay" and "retarded" to describe something bad?

This may sound like the work of the PC police, but think about it for a second. There are many members here who are openly gay, and some have a form of mental problem. They are still human and still active participants. So using these words to express your thoughts on something bad can be seen as a form of insult towards them. That say, for example, X Disney movie is about as bad as mental retardation and homosexuality.

And no, just because they are used in humorous context it doesn't give you the right to use it. This ties to the being humorous and thinking what you are going to say rules. No on likes being labeled as something, which leads to our next rule of conduct...

Generalizations don't help, either

Generalization is when you group people under the same banner or ideas.

Here is an example of this at work:
  • Generalizer 1: The only ones that care are Disney fanboys who are too busy worshiping everything Disney.

    Poster 1: That's not true. I like Disney but I'm not fond of (insert name of Disney Channel star).

    Generalizer 1: Well, then you're the exception. But all Disney fans are crazy, they'd drink Walt's blood if they could.

    Poster 2: Dude, do you even know what you're saying?

    Poster 3: I think he's calling us vampires?

    Generalizer 1: Speaking of vampires, all Twilight fans are horny little girls in wuv with Roberta Patterson or whoever she is.

    Posters 1, 2, 3: ...
There are many kinds of Disney fans. Some like the movies, other prefer the theme parks. Some of them are not that devoted and will criticize the company if they did something wrong. There is no such thing as a "true" fan. There are many levels of fandom and many types of fans. Labeling all Disney fans as one type of fan (be it Walt worshiping blood drinkers or anything else) is unfair and wrong.

If you are going to talk about a fanbase or group of people, do not generalize them all. You can make an observation that some of them (that you have encountered) act a certain way. But that does not apply to all of them. Everyone has a reason for liking/disliking Disney, they may be shared reasons, but each reason is unique to the fan. Don't generalize one fan on the basis of one hundred. And don't generalize one hundred fans on the basis of one. Finally, the last tip...

EVERYONE IS HUMAN

This might be derivative of the other rules, but this is an important one. You need to realize that behind every username, colorful avatar, and/or signature sits a human being at their keyboard.

This human being has a mind, a heart, a soul.

They have feelings.

They have opinions.

They have the cognitive ability to agree and disagree with what the read.

They have the emotional ability to get hurt and upset if you insult them, even if they write that they are not hurt.

They have lives, they have issues to deal with, they have problems of their own.

Their life does not begin and end on the forums. They do not simply disappear when you log off and close your browser. They are still there, either behind or away from their computer. They can still remember what you said.

If you are being mean to them, YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

In fact, it's likely that they are venting their own problems through these discussions. They may have an anger in someone that they don't want to bring to the forum, so they'll go into a discussion and critically dissect Disney Character #33 to blow off steam. They have that right. You have that right.

Remember that behind the words you're reading is an intelligent person who wrote them. Sometimes people say it's easier to separate the words from the person, and just respond to the words. While that may be helpful, there is still a person behind those words. They will still be affected by what you are saying to their words, even if they say "I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to what you're saying."

So once again, think before posting an insult or trying to be better than them. No matter who you are or where you come from that is no excuse to try and belittle others.

If you've read through this lengthy post about being tactful at UltimateDisney/DVDizzy, then thanks for reading! I hope it's proved helpful.

This was written mainly out of a concern for how we talk to each other on the forums. Many topics get very intense and words are exchanged that in retrospect some of us wish we could take back. It is my hope that this thread allows people to realize just how powerful the words they say are, and hopefully the entire forum's atmosphere and attitude will change for the better.
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Wonderlicious
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Post by Wonderlicious »

What can I say? Or more like, what can I do? Oh yes, this...

:clap:

Thank you for such a good topic! I really agree with all of it. Really. In actual fact, I think this ought to become a sticky or an announcement, as it's extremely handy for people to see and be reminded of.
pap64 wrote:Generalizer 1: Speaking of vampires, all Twilight fans are horny little girls in wuv with Roberta Patterson or whoever she is.
I know for one thing Fangirl would not be happy with Generalizer 1! :lol: And despite what others may think (or think of Fangirl), I realise that a lot of fans of Twilight are intelligent (a lot of female friends of mine love it, most of whom are sane). :p
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SmartAleck25
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Post by SmartAleck25 »

Great tips, pap64! I'll be more mindful of what I say next time...
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Post by The_Iceflash »

:clap: :clap:

Well said! Great topic! I also think that it would be a good idea if this were made a sticky.
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Goliath
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Post by Goliath »

Pedro, I appreciate your intentions and your contributions to keep the UD forums a nice place to visit and discuss. Having said that, I really don't think this thread was necessary. I think 99% of all discussions on UD are going fine. Sometimes they're heated, yes, but not unhealthy or out of control. Sometimes we go too far and get corrected by a moderator (it has happened to me), but most of the time, we regulate ourselves. We apologize to each other after we realize we have been wrong. So I'm not sure why you felt the need to start this thread.

Frankly, I found a lot of it to be rather patronizing. Especially when you talk in terms of "what should be done" or "what should be avoided". I'm not saying that was your intention, but that's the nerve it struck with me. I felt your section about 'being careful' and 'not being controversial' and all that stuff was way overdone and indeed seemed to be set up to instill self-censorship on the UD members. As one of the more outspoken members, you're probably not surprised I take this position. ;)

I like to spice up my posts with a little over-the-top rhetoric or hyperbole every now and then. Instead of saying: "I didn't care for Home on the Range", I would say: "it's a horrible failure of a film". Instead of saying: "I think Louis is an annoying character", I would say: "I wish they had shot that alligator early on in the film." And when there are certain people around in a thread of whom I know they will go nuts over certain issues, I can't resist poking at them a little. For example, when Disney Duster is around, I may trash the character of Cinderella to an extent I normally wouldn't. Just for the sake of it. :D

I think we can all deal with that. I know a lot of people on UD have Aspergers, or autism or something like that and it is said (so I have read, but I'm no doctor and not pretending to be one) that they're more likely to strongly hold onto their own worldview and are not so good in having that view challenged. Now, I don't know if that's true for the people on UD. But I'm not going to treat them differently because of it. Nor will I be extra careful with them. Not to be mean, but to show them I respect them. I have enough respect for them to not change my tone just for them. I think they want to be treated just like everybody else.

What's appropriate or not on UD, I leave that to the moderators. Everybody has different opinions on that. Some people may find some particular words inappropriate, when I don't. You point to the fact that UD is a family forum and children could be reading. Let me tell you, kids would be bored to death with our discussions and never-ending posts (like mine). No way they're reading this. UD members are in their 20´s or above. And even if kids come here, I don't think there are any words that are inappropriate or will 'damage' them. Other people may disagree.

We agree on the 'opinion vs. fact' issue. However, on a discussion forum like UD, I assume we all know that everything a person says is "in his opinion". So I think it's not neccesary to add "in my opinion" to every sentence. I do think it's important not to speak on behalf of other people. So, no claims like: "Walt Disney would never approve of this-and-that", because that's presenting something like a fact when we can never know if that would be true. An important aspect I wanted to add, is: people should acknowledge facts as facts. A lot of what we say is opinion-based, but some things can be checked and controlled as being facts. There are some people who refuse to do this. For instance, we have had some people in Off-Topic who equated 'science' with 'opinion'. Saying "what scientists say is only their opinion". I'm sorry, but that's not true (unless it's about social sciences, which it was not) and they should be called on that.

All in all, like I said, I appreciate your intentions and I hope you don't mind me explaining some of my objections. I always say: 'live and let live'. :)
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Post by pap64 »

Goliath, first of all, I didn't do this for the heck of it. I talked to the moderators and admins before I even begun to write one word, and re-wrote this several times until it was approved by the moderators and admins. I would never do anything related to the forums without heavy consultations.

Second, sorry if it feels patronizing, but trust me, that wasn't the intention. Like I said, this is aimed at EVERYONE, not just you, me or anyone else, since we have made at least one of these mistakes, and often don't realize it.

Finally, I don't see this as being useless. Yes, the forums have significantly calmed down thanks to several locked threads as well as warnings being given, and I thank the mods for doing that. That being said, it wouldn't hurt to try and avoid making the same mistakes, and learning about it shouldn't just take place when everything is extremely out of control.
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Post by Goliath »

pap64 wrote:Second, sorry if it feels patronizing, but trust me, that wasn't the intention. Like I said, this is aimed at EVERYONE, not just you, me or anyone else, since we have made at least one of these mistakes, and often don't realize it.
Don't worry, like I said: I knew that wasn't your intention. Just like I knew no part of your post was aimed at me personally. Regardless, I (me, personally, in my humble opinion) feel the thread was not 'neccesary'. But then again, half of the threads on U aren't, so not a big deal. :P
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Scarred4life
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Post by Scarred4life »

Goliath wrote:You point to the fact that UD is a family forum and children could be reading. Let me tell you, kids would be bored to death with our discussions and never-ending posts (like mine). No way they're reading this. UD members are in their 20´s or above.
Agreed, for the most part. I'm still a teenager, but I don't know a single person my age who would want to read this, or who would have the patience to sit at a computer and read peoples opinions.
Goliath wrote:And even if kids come here, I don't think there are any words that are inappropriate or will 'damage' them. Other people may disagree.
Believe me, any children above 13 have already been exposed to the 'inappropriate' comments here.
pap64 wrote:Finally, I don't see this as being useless.
Nor do I. Especially for newer members, it's a more in-depth explanation of what's appropriate and what's not than the official rules. But yes, some of it is a bit redundant. And some people do need to learn to not get offended so easily, because not everyone will be tactful in life.
Last edited by Scarred4life on Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Super Aurora »

Trying to take away my entertainment and fun? ImageImage




and all seriousness(lol me?) i agree with Goliath. Half the reason I do the stuff I do is cause I find the forum to get quite...boring. Compared to other places I go.

I also think people should improve their reading comprehension skills and learn context of the post if they don't want to feel offended(even when there is nothing to get offend over.)
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Post by The_Iceflash »

Goliath wrote:
Frankly, I found a lot of it to be rather patronizing. Especially when you talk in terms of "what should be done" or "what should be avoided". I'm not saying that was your intention, but that's the nerve it struck with me. I felt your section about 'being careful' and 'not being controversial' and all that stuff was way overdone and indeed seemed to be set up to instill self-censorship on the UD members. As one of the more outspoken members, you're probably not surprised I take this position. ;)
I don't see what's wrong with "self-censorship". All you really doing with that is asking yourself whether what you're posting will offend others, start unnecessary fights, etc. We'll use your tea party thread as an example. What if there were any UD members that were tea party members? Did you even consider that or did you say "If there are any tea party members on UD I don't like them so it doesn't matter if I offend them"? Saying American Democracy is in danger and then putting blame onto a group and trashing them is going to greatly offend any member who is of that group. One would ask themselves before posting it whether that is too offensive. The two things people are most passionate about are politics and religion. For that reason, being tactful should be most important when it comes to those issues. You may not care about offending others with your posts and threads, but having tact is just a way to be respectful of those who don't share your beliefs. Believe it or not, it's ok for others to have beliefs that are different than your own. :)

It's one thing to be controversial and it's another to be offensive for the sake of being offensive. I'm sure most posters would rather enjoy UD for what it is than deal with posters who are offensive for the sake of being offensive.
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Post by Mayhem »

TL;DR

So what was that about tact? :wink:

I'm guessing the intentions are good... as the old PC-unfriendly line goes "Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded"...

I've been around on the net long enough (18 years and counting, I'm an internet adult hah hah) to not let anything like that get to me (and I indeed fight fire with fire) but generally I often facepalm at the stupidity of how some people act. What you wrote Pap IS a good policy to follow... if people can be bothered to adhere to it. Sadly, I notice more and more than people just don't take things in...
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Post by Disney Duster »

I don't know when I will get to read the entire thing...but for now, I am going to say this was a great idea to do, no matter what anyone says, after all, it's your opinion too that matters, and it looks like it's all a very big, good one that everyone can agree with, that perhaps should even be made a sticky. So, :clap:
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Post by totallyminnie86 »

Bravo, Pap! Well said. And I think this is something that is always good to be reminded of. Trust me. I've been on enough forums for long enough to have seen to various degrees of everything you've mentioned. It's good to remind people of why we're here... and if people take it into account, there is a lot less drama, which in fact, drives people away from forums and posting. I've bailed out on several others due to that.
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Post by Siren »

Pap well said all across the board and frankly the post could be said for nearly all forums.

Though I did find some amusement here. Hehe
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Post by Wonderlicious »

Mayhem wrote:I've been around on the net long enough (18 years and counting, I'm an internet adult hah hah)
You've been using the Internet since 1992? :shock: You must have really been amongst the first using it (relatively speaking, that is; considering that billions of people use it, being amongst the first two or three million classes you as one of the first to use it ;)).
Mayhem wrote:I often facepalm at the stupidity of how some people act. What you wrote Pap IS a good policy to follow... if people can be bothered to adhere to it. Sadly, I notice more and more than people just don't take things in...
Agreed. This thread isn't necessarily a rules thread per se (like what Aaron and CJ did here), more as a set of helpful suggestions. I have to say that in a number of threads, especially in Disney Discussion, we've been going round in circles a bit, and topics go off, well, off topic, mainly out of people "agreeing and disagreeing". Somehow a film about the worst opening for an animated film can turn into a discussion as to whether Sleeping Beauty is overrated or not, people start trying to start debates in personal questionnaires for studies (like the media studies assignments on Disney's characterisation of women), just to name a few examples. And I especially agree that the psycho-analysis thing (aka guessing/assuming what people think) really ought to be avoided, mainly as we're practically little more than a group of strangers, and it's just weird to make concrete assumptions.

Now, of course, there's always going to be arguments and disagreements, mild or major, and spicing up one's language isn't unwelcome. But it's nifty to have a thread like this to remind people of what needs to be done or avoided as much as possible, just as looking at the proper rules thread would be (even if some of those rules are glaringly obvious to the majority of posters).
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Post by Goliath »

The_Iceflash wrote:We'll use your tea party thread as an example. What if there were any UD members that were tea party members? Did you even consider that or did you say "If there are any tea party members on UD I don't like them so it doesn't matter if I offend them"? Saying American Democracy is in danger and then putting blame onto a group and trashing them is going to greatly offend any member who is of that group.
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. I'm not going to watch my language because Tea Party members might get offended. They have no reason to be offended. They should apologize to the rest of America, for having offended so many groups of people in the last years (African Americans, Latinos, immigrants, homosexuals, progressives etc.). I wouldn't lower my tone for them. Just like I wouldn't lower my tone to appease gay-bashers or racists or anti-semites. If one is a UD member who is also in the Tea Party, they deserve to get called on the stupid and dangerous things their movement's leaders are spouting. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If one chooses to be in a fanatical cult like the Tea Party, one has to bear the consequences.
The_Iceflash wrote:You may not care about offending others with your posts and threads, but having tact is just a way to be respectful of those who don't share your beliefs. Believe it or not, it's ok for others to have beliefs that are different than your own. :)
Of course that's okay --to a certain extent. If you disagree with me about music, or tv shows, or movies, or whatever topic, I'm fine with that. I will always be careful not to offend people when discussing such topics. Sometimes I still do, with my hyperbolic languages or expressions, but it's never my intention, and I will apologize. But I draw a line when it comes to issues of great importance, like whether or not we should allow the Tea Party to turn the US into a 14th century theocracy. If one believes that Christine O'Donell was right when she said there's no such thing as seperation of church and state, I'm not going to 'agree to disagree'. Because it's not true. I call bullshit when I see it.
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Post by Sotiris »

Goliath wrote:Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. I'm not going to watch my language because Tea Party members might get offended. They have no reason to be offended. They should apologize to the rest of America, for having offended so many groups of people in the last years (African Americans, Latinos, immigrants, homosexuals, progressives etc.). I wouldn't lower my tone for them. Just like I wouldn't lower my tone to appease gay-bashers or racists or anti-semites. If one is a UD member who is also in the Tea Party, they deserve to get called on the stupid and dangerous things their movement's leaders are spouting. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If one chooses to be in a fanatical cult like the Tea Party, one has to bear the consequences.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Post by DaveWadding »

To be entirely tactful, this thread sucks.

I'm kidding. ;)
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Post by CJ »

This thread was created to be a helpful tutorial (much like my quoting tutorial) for the forum. If it helps one person on this forum become a better poster, it has succeeded.

This thread is starting to be derailed, please keep the political posts out of this thread. There are plenty of other politically related threads to discuss politics in.
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Post by milojthatch »

The_Iceflash wrote::clap: :clap:

Well said! Great topic! I also think that it would be a good idea if this were made a sticky.
I second that. A great reminder to be more thoughtful when you do anything. The internet, it seems, is starting to form this stigma that anything goes. May people these days are so caught up with making sure they are not censored or that they have their First Amendment Rights, that they get lost to the wisdom that comes with those rights.

Uncle Ben in "Spider-Man" said it best, "Just becuase you can do a thing does not mean you should." Thumper in "Bambi" then brings up some more wisdom (or his dad more accurately) when he said, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothn' at all."

Freedom is not free as we are all slaves to our actions. A better understanding of that reality would goo a long way in this World. Bravo on this post! Make it a sticky!
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