Tim Burton Discussion

Maerj · Post by **Maerj** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:53 pm

Since his new movie just went into wide release and since we were discussing his films on another thread, I thought I would start a whole new thread just for ol Tim!

How about a poll question too? Which Burton film was your favorite? Which one was the least? Discuss!

Just a note, I am including Nightmare Before Christmas even though he didn't direct it. It has his stamp on it so much that I think we can consider it a Burton film.

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:57 pm

It's hard. I've gone for Edward Scissorhands because it's a wonderful, flawless modern fairytale (as is "Nightmare" but Depp's performance makes Edward Scissorhands).

Really Edward Scissorhands, Nightmare Before Christmas and Ed Wood are all of almost equal standing.

I actually dislike Pee Wee more than Planet of the Apes. Go figure.

Maerj · Post by **Maerj** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:40 pm

I agree with you on Edward Scissorhands...100%! It is a tough decision, there are so many good films there and so many different types of films!

Batman is a great superhero flick, Scissorhands is a great fairy tale. Sleepy Hollow was a fun horror movie and Ed Wood was a really great flick too.

You didn't like Pee Wee's Big Adventure? For shame! I loved that movie! Burton should have done the sequel as well, it would have been much better. Burton's vision served Pee Wee very well.

Loomis · Post by **Loomis** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:04 pm

Can I vote for them all?

I think you've listed half my fave films there.

The comic book fan in me wants to say Batman 1 & 2, because they truly brought out the dark lanscapes of Gotham, while at the same time capturing the feel of the modern Batman comic.

Ed Wood was such a classic piece of cinema it is hard to overlooked. It sparked my love for Ed Wood's films, and it not only paid tribute to them, but it was able to spoof them without being nasty. In other words, it was a beautiful film about a semi-tragic figure.

Sleepy Hollow has Christopher Walken. End of story.

However, I ultimate chose Edward Scissorhands because it has all of the above qualities (except for Chris Walken, but it had Vincent Price which is even better). It really brought out Burton's visual style in the context of a fairy tale. I don't think any lover of classic Disney animation could dislike this film as it has the same innocent charm that those films embodied.

And that Johnny Depp...he make-a me cry

Maerj · Post by **Maerj** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:40 pm

Loomis wrote:Can I vote for them all?

I think you've listed half my fave films there.

Obviously another big Burton fan! Tell me... what did YOU think of Planet of the Apes? I consider it his weakest film and I think that most of Burton's fans would agree.

My first Burton film was Pee Wee's Big Adventure, which I loved, hillarious film with some zany special effects.

His next film, Beetlejuice, I actually DIDN'T like... the first time I saw it! I watched it a second, then a third time. At that point I loved it and 'got it,' if you know what I mean. The first viewing I thought "Why was this called Beetlejuice? The stars are those other two people!" I found it to be funnier on each showing as well, it just got better the more I watched it.

What about this Willy Wonka remake? I HOPE its going to be good... Johnny Depp, I think he can do practically anything. On the other hand, Burton is taking a much loved, classic film, and is going to re-imagine it. His re-imagining worked for Batman and Sleepy Hollow, but not for Planet of the Apes. Will people be able to accept this new version of Wonka?

Loomis · Post by **Loomis** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:29 pm

Maerj wrote:
Loomis wrote:Can I vote for them all?

I think you've listed half my fave films there.
Obviously another big Burton fan! Tell me... what did YOU think of Planet of the Apes? I consider it his weakest film and I think that most of Burton's fans would agree.

[...] Will people be able to accept this new version of Wonka?

I actually and coincidentally made a comment over in the ROTK thread. I'll cut n paste here:

Loomis wrote:I am a huge fan of Burton. I think, if nothing else, he is one of the most visually interesting directors about. (Perhaps the only film I didn't enjoy as much was Planet of the Apes, a combination of the fact that I love the original so much, and the remake...err...reimagining being a fairly "typical" Hollywood blockbuster. "Typical" is not what we have come to expect from Burton).

As for Wonka, I believe if anyone can pull off a new version that will be loved or as visually interesting as the original, he can...

MickeyMousePal · Post by **MickeyMousePal** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:32 pm

I voted for Batman because I'm a Batman fan.
Both Batman and Batman Returns are great.
A Nightmare Before Christmas was awesome something different and entertaining.

I also enjoy the remake of Planet of the Apes.

jambo*rafiki · Post by **jambo*rafiki** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:54 pm

Loomis wrote: As for Wonka, I believe if anyone can pull off a new version that will be loved or as visually interesting as the original, he can...

Definately agree with you there Loomis. Tim Burton + Johnny Depp = almost certain masterpiece . . . that's why I voted for Edward Scissorhands, though Nightmare is great and I'm looking forward to Big Fish. I'm looking forward to Willy Wonka even more though . . . just wondering, does anyone know who's signed up to play Charlie, Grandpa Joe or any of the other main characters?

Post by **Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:12 pm

I enjoyed "Big Fish" more than I expected to, but I'm still dreading the idea of trying to do a new "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" adaptation since the 1971 film is just so perfect.

I've had a general "liked, not loved" feeling about just about all of the Tim Burton movies I've seen. "Beetlejuice" is probably my favorite, though.

Lady · Post by **Lady** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:23 pm

Batman Returns and Sleepy Hollow are two of my all-time favorite films. I'm really keen on the atmosphere and visual look of a film, which Tim Burton does a great job of creating. I would go so far as to say Tim Burton is my favorite director.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:53 pm

For, me, it's a tie between Pee-Wee and Batman, with a slight edge to Batman for being the best comic-book movie to date (IMO).

Big Fish could have easily been my favorite if only it weren't as long as it were. I think the movie would've been perfect if they'd trimmed it down to 90-100 minutes.

Never seen Nightmare, Ed Wood, Mars Attacks, Sleepy Hollow. I beat myself up for not having rented them sooner.

STASHONE · Post by **STASHONE** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:36 pm

2099net wrote:It's hard. I've gone for Edward Scissorhands because it's a wonderful, flawless modern fairytale (as is "Nightmare" but Depp's performance makes Edward Scissorhands).

This movie was much more of a social commentary than a modern fairytale from my perspectives..

Id elaborate but i just got back from a 3 and a half hour philosophy lecture and have class at 7:30 tomorow morning, so... goodnight!

PS - Planet Of The Apes is one of the worst films ever made.

Paka · Post by **Paka** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:38 pm

Think I'll just cut and edit my earlier post from the RotK thread...

As for Burton in general - yes, I lurve his stuff. It's all so twisted - in a good kind of way. Nothing truly freaky or repulsive about it.
I voted Nightmare Before Christmas, personally. Haven't seen Beetlejuice, Ed Wood, or Sleepy Hollow. Don't really want to see Pee-Wee's Big Adventure anytime soon - but I did watch its supposedly inferior sequel, Big Top Pee-Wee, a lot as a kid - so I'd prolly enjoy the original in theory.

I also don't feel compelled to see Mars Attacks! in the near future, either - looks like Burton tried too hard to spoof the genre, or something. O_o
And I really need to watch Edward Scissorhands, Batman, and Batman Returns a few more times to know what I think. ES is just kinda weird, with some concepts (i.e. Ed making ice sculptures is the reason it snows, etc.) kinda tough to accept. Those same outlandish concepts are present in Big Fish, but since they're taken as stories from the start - complete with disgruntled skeptic son - it's easier to watch. You even start sympathizing with the dad not long into it. ES's story was so - fable-y - that it kinda put me off. Less whimsical and more cutesy, or something. But, as few times as I've seen the Batman movies, I really like how well-made they are. In my opinion, the Batman movies and the X-Men movies are the only comic book adaptations that are really good. They actually root them in reality, and it makes them work better on the screen than a literal adaptation would. Like yellow spandex...

Of the films I've seen, I really appreciate Nightmare's surreal world the most. Vincent's great short, and Frankenweenie is a cute throwback to '50s tv. It's like a very odd episode of Leave It to Beaver.

And Big Fish was a lot of fun - with a tear-jerker ending. *sniff*
But Planet of the Apes was bad. Me no likey. And I still have no idea why he's "re-imagining" Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Especially with Johnny Depp rumored to be Wonka himself. I mean, the guy does a silly whimsical character in Pirates - can't we just leave it at that? No - he must now be the Candy Master!
...and Tim Burton having used him several times before doesn't make it any more of an inspired choice... e_e I'd rather have seen Christopher Walken, if you wanna talk about uninspired type-casting - the guy's weird enough in real life to fit the role... LOL
That, and he "looks" more age-appropriate for Wonka. I know Depp is 40, but he still looks too "young" to be Wonka. Walken is 60 and shows it. Plus I've always seen Wonka, in both the book and the movie, as a man who looks old and acts young - it fits his character. Plus, Walken could pull off the eccentric, potentially frightening behavior of Wonka more effectively, I think. Depp just doesn't feel threatening enough - even when he has played creepy characters.

STASHONE · Post by **STASHONE** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:12 am

I saw Big Fish over the weekend and found it to be way overrated. Visually, it was terrific like most Burton films but I thought it was a tad sentimental-tacky at times, even trite.

I got the sappy point about water before the title sequence ended, I didn't need it in every scene.

Worth seeing especially if you like the whimsy and surrealism of Amelie or Baron Munchausen. It wasn't bad like Planet Of The Apes or anything. It was pretty, but kinda shallow.

I don't know why, but I left feeling the characters were more cartoonish than real, particularly Ewan Macgregor's depiction of younger dad but that is kinda the point with all Burton movies. He isn't exactly a genius when it comes to character development and often seems to rely more heavily on the scenery to dress up the magic complexities his characters are supposed to have. That's fine with me.

And Billy Crudup's acting was pretty terrible, but I guess it fit into his humorless character. Even his telling of the last story seemed forced and contrived.

The only decent thing was Steve Buscemi. I couldn't even say that Danny Elfman's score was decent and I love him. It would have been a much better movie if the schmaltz level wasn't so high.

Everyone should go see Lost In Translation, easily the best movie this year!

blackcauldron85 · Post by **blackcauldron85** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:08 am

Burton profiled
http://animatedviews.com/2010/burton-profiled/

Lazario · Post by **Lazario** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:15 am

It was Beetlejuice as a child. Now I like Batman a little more.

It'll probably shift yet again in the future.

rexcrk · Post by **rexcrk** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:57 pm

Definitely Nightmare Before Christmas for me, it's been a favorite movie of mine since I was a little kid (I hate wearing shirts of it though, I always feel like people see me wearing a Nightmare shirt and are like "Pfft, he's just one of those Hot Topic kids and it's just a fad!" but that doesn't stop me from wearing 'em lol)

Lazario · Post by **Lazario** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:16 pm

Of course the funny thing about Nightmare Before Christmas... it wasn't directed by Tim Burton. It should be removed from the list. Henry Selick - the guy who did James and the Giant Peach and Monkeybone - directed it instead.

It doesn't even, apart from the look of it and Danny Elfman score, feel like a Tim Burton movie.

Super Aurora · Post by **Super Aurora** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:24 pm

I'm not a Tim Burton fan but the two movies I absolutely love is the two Batman movies he did. Usually I don't like Burton gothic style all that much. I find it too shove in your face and that Burton use same overall atmosphere theme all the time. But with the two Batman movies, he really broke away from that and tried more along actual comic's feel. The city was excellent. Way more so than the Nolan films. The city actually feel like Gotham with it's grittiness and some art deco. Of the two though I'd have to say Batman Return was the better of the two. But both were fantastic. To me the city and atmosphere were characters itself and that's what I love about those two films.

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:31 pm

Lazario wrote:Of course the funny thing about Nightmare Before Christmas... it wasn't directed by Tim Burton. It should be removed from the list. Henry Selick - the guy who did James and the Giant Peach and Monkeybone - directed it instead.

It doesn't even, apart from the look of it and Danny Elfman score, feel like a Tim Burton movie.

I know that Selick directed it.... But the story was Tim Burton's, he came up with it, and he had probably the most influential role in mapping out the story, etc. So even if he wasn't the director, he was a very active producer.

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