Has anybody noticed....(Fandom Discussion)

[Aqua]

How the fanbases of each film of the "Fabulous Four" routinely like to berate and attack the other three? You know, like it's a competion or something. We often share anger and animousity to those who hate Disney for whatever reason but goddness, who would've thought even fans can stoop so low! I understand the passion and love people must have for The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King but I've noticed the pattern in which where if a certain group likes film A the most said group will attack films B, C, D (you can subsitute any of the Fab Four to any of the letters) to make A look good. I hope I'm making sense. These four movies really overshadow the later Disney titles, I'm sorry....

You can aruge that BATB is more overrated than Lion King or vice versa but ultimately the "Fab Four" gets so much recognition than the latter films, that each have a sustained a infinite amount of fans, praise and borderline "worship". Hey, BATB is my all time favorite and I think one of the best but my "love" for that film has never stopped me from enjoying the other Disney movies pre-Little Mermaid or post-Lion King. You can still enjoy HOND, Hercules, Mulan and etc... and any Disney movie of the "Dark Ages" or BS like that! Another thing I've noticed that also involves berating and attacking are the Disney Princesses. Yeah, the Princess line is beyond ridiculous but sheesh must we rip into their respective films? Do we really need to attack Belle (or other characters) to justify why Cinderella is a good character (our favorites and such).

There's been a lot of tension between those who like Disney's older movies, post-Little Mermaid and beyond. The same goes for those prefer the "Princess" movies, those who like fairy tails/fantasy or more action-orienated movies. Heck, let's not forget the Disney vs. Pixar or 2D Animation vs. 3D debates. Oh and any form of criticism involving the Disney company being "too negative" or "making them look bad". Eh, Disney has released a lot of BS and they do irriate me with some stuff they do. Yeah, they really should be criticised more often no matter how much we love them.



I'm sorry for the long rant but it's just shocking and overwhelming! I thought the Disney fandom wasn't anything like that but I guess I was naive to believe that because all fandoms have a....Well, ugly side. I haven't been at UD in a long time so, yeah. HAD TO LET THIS OUT! Sorry

[IagoZazu]

Fandoms can be addicting. As much as I love Aladdin and The Lion King, I don't let them try to overshadow my other favorites such as HOND, The Little Mermaid, Tarzan, Sleeping Beauty, 101 Dalmatians, and The Black Cauldron.

It's bad enough to be biased with Disney, but to be biased within Disney is way too much. I have a problem where I only watch Disney movies and prefer them over non-Disney ones, and I even haven't liked Pixar as much as I do Disney even though they are a partnership. I love Toy Story and Up, but because people keep referring to Pixar as a separate entity, the more I believe it's so. Now I'm trying to not be that way, but when you've grown up watching the movies you love it gets hard to expand borders. It's like eating a different flavor of crackers instead of always eating the ones you loved.

That said, I think its best to not be biased and so immersed into a fandom that you think you own and control it.

[Scarred4life]

I pretty much love all the Disney films, regardless of how popular/ what 'age' they are from. And I don't hold any of the films in a higher regard just because they are my favourite. I wouldn't put a film down just because it's not in my top ten, or whatever. And I still love the princess movies, even though they are so over marketed.

[Goliath]

I tend to criticize the 'Fab four' because they get SO much attention, both from fans and Disney itself, that the films that came after them tend to be forgotten. Even though I love The Little Mermaid and Aladdin, I can't deny that later films (like Hunchback and Mulan) have way better animation, story structure/writing and overall production values than any of the 'Fab four'. I also dislike that term. I dunno why. I just do.

Anyway, I feel Beauty and the Beast is really overrated. I always held it in high regard, but upon re-watching it not too long ago, I noticed how clumsy the story structure is, how shoddy the animation is at times, and how unneccessary some songs are ('Gaston' comes to mind). The Lion King is really overrated. I can't find a heart or soul in the film. Plus it's completely ripped-off from Kimba.

What I dislike most, is how a lot of people tend to define 'Disney' by just Walt's films and the 'Fab four' --and that's it. Even Disney itself does this, in their advertisement, marketing and merchandising. It makes no sense to shut out certain films, just because they don't fall in those two categories. Why do we have to shut out Oliver, Basil, Bernard and Bianca, or Robin Hood?

[Aqua]

I always liked The Rescue Rangers, The Great Mouse Detective, Oliver & Company, Duck Tales: The Movie and The Rescue Rangers: Down Under on the same level as the Fab Four. Basically, I would watch them just as I would with the others!

[Goliath]

I always liked The Rescue Rangers, The Great Mouse Detective, Oliver & Company, Duck Tales: The Movie and The Rescue Rangers: Down Under on the same level as the Fab Four. Basically, I would watch them just as I would with the others!

You've got The Rescuers and Chip 'N Dale Rescue Rangers mixed up!

[DisneyJedi]

What I dislike most, is how a lot of people tend to define 'Disney' by just Walt's films and the 'Fab four' --and that's it. Even Disney itself does this, in their advertisement, marketing and merchandising. It makes no sense to shut out certain films, just because they don't fall in those two categories. Why do we have to shut out Oliver, Basil, Bernard and Bianca, or Robin Hood?

This sadly reminds me of Michael Jackson's song, "They Don't Care About Us." They just don't care for their other movies.

[milojthatch]

As a "Star Trek" fan I am used to this, sub-fan group within over all fan groups. Some people only like The Original Series, other The Next Generation, some like both but not Voyager and on and on and on.

Dare I say it, it may be worse in Disney. And it goes beyond just animation or even movies! Did you know some people love Disneyland but hate everything else Disney? I'm still not sure how you can do that, but my Uncle is one of them.

When it comes to Disney Animation, you get a lot of different takes. Certainly you get the studio that pushes only the films "that made money." But that itself is dumb as a number of the old classics they push were themselves box office bombs originally (Fantasia, Sleeping Beauty) and yet somehow the studio nor the general public seem to care. Yet films that didn't do some well originally after Walt died forever carry the scarlet letter?

As a Disney fan I ofter finding myself not really being happy with the company I claim fandom for in the first place. They just do some many dumb things! It always happens however that you get "brown noising fans" or fans who like whatever the studio tells them to like.

My advise for fans like me who have brains and know what you like, pay no attention to the rest. Based on what I have seen just on this forum, there are plenty of "Great Mouse Detective" and "Princess and the Frog" fans out there that enjoy these films just as much if not more then 'Beauty and the Beast" or "The Lion King." Make sure whatever you enjoy it is because YOU enjoy it and not because someone tells you to enjoy it. And never be too serious about arguing what film is better, ever is the person you are fighting with is wrong. HA!

[ajmrowland]

Fandoms can be addicting. As much as I love Aladdin and The Lion King, I don't let them try to overshadow my other favorites such as HOND, The Little Mermaid, Tarzan, Sleeping Beauty, 101 Dalmatians, and The Black Cauldron.

It's bad enough to be biased with Disney, but to be biased within Disney is way too much. I have a problem where I only watch Disney movies and prefer them over non-Disney ones, and I even haven't liked Pixar as much as I do Disney even though they are a partnership. I love Toy Story and Up, but because people keep referring to Pixar as a separate entity, the more I believe it's so. Now I'm trying to not be that way, but when you've grown up watching the movies you love it gets hard to expand borders. It's like eating a different flavor of crackers instead of always eating the ones you loved.

That said, I think its best to not be biased and so immersed into a fandom that you think you own and control it.

^^^This.

And Im so addicted to the Kingdom Hearts fanbase right now, it hurts.

[Goliath]

When it comes to Disney Animation, you get a lot of different takes. Certainly you get the studio that pushes only the films "that made money." But that itself is dumb as a number of the old classics they push were themselves box office bombs originally (Fantasia, Sleeping Beauty) and yet somehow the studio nor the general public seem to care. Yet films that didn't do some well originally after Walt died forever carry the scarlet letter?

What's especially curious, is how some of those films, like Robin Hood and The Rescuers were real big box-office hits back in the days! Nowadays Disney is reasoning: "well, but they didn't make as much money as TLM or TLK". Yeah, but *no* film did back then. You have to look at those numbers in the context of the time. Those two films did very well. And like you said, Walt's 'Classics' often did not perform well, but Walt knew those films had to find an audience. So he continued to promote them until they were appreciated for what they were. Image if Walt had left Pinocchio alone for decades after its initial box-office bomb. It might be as obscure nowadays as The Rescuers is.

In itself, it makes literally no sense, the way Disney thinks. They think: "we aren't going to promote this film, and we're not going to use the characters anymore, because nobody knows this film." Well, I have news, Disney: it's YOUR decision to hide them and bury them from the public. It's a never-ending circle.

As a Disney fan I ofter finding myself not really being happy with the company I claim fandom for in the first place. They just do some many dumb things! It always happens however that you get "brown noising fans" or fans who like whatever the studio tells them to like.

Let's not forget bad managment. Any company that has Bob Iger as CEO can't be trusted. Any executive that cancels Twin Peaks has proven to me that he doesn't have a clue whatsoever about *anything*.

[Aqua]

So is it safe to assume that The Lion King gave Disney unrealistic expecations for future films?

[milojthatch]

When it comes to Disney Animation, you get a lot of different takes. Certainly you get the studio that pushes only the films "that made money." But that itself is dumb as a number of the old classics they push were themselves box office bombs originally (Fantasia, Sleeping Beauty) and yet somehow the studio nor the general public seem to care. Yet films that didn't do some well originally after Walt died forever carry the scarlet letter?

What's especially curious, is how some of those films, like Robin Hood and The Rescuers were real big box-office hits back in the days! Nowadays Disney is reasoning: "well, but they didn't make as much money as TLM or TLK". Yeah, but *no* film did back then. You have to look at those numbers in the context of the time. Those two films did very well. And like you said, Walt's 'Classics' often did not perform well, but Walt knew those films had to find an audience. So he continued to promote them until they were appreciated for what they were. Image if Walt had left Pinocchio alone for decades after its initial box-office bomb. It might be as obscure nowadays as The Rescuers is.

In itself, it makes literally no sense, the way Disney thinks. They think: "we aren't going to promote this film, and we're not going to use the characters anymore, because nobody knows this film." Well, I have news, Disney: it's YOUR decision to hide them and bury them from the public. It's a never-ending circle.

As a Disney fan I ofter finding myself not really being happy with the company I claim fandom for in the first place. They just do some many dumb things! It always happens however that you get "brown noising fans" or fans who like whatever the studio tells them to like.

Let's not forget bad managment. Any company that has Bob Iger as CEO can't be trusted. Any executive that cancels Twin Peaks has proven to me that he doesn't have a clue whatsoever about *anything*.

I totally agree. The only reason a film like "Pinocchio" isn't as obscure as "Robbin Hood" is because Walt took care of his baby if you will. Very sad.

I agree with Aqua as well, "Lion King" not only gave Disney unrealistic expectation of animation, but all of Hollywood. That is why so many animator were hired in the 90's and then let go later. The same thing is going on now with CGI films. "Toy Story," "Shrek," and "Ice Age" made a bunch of money and now all of Hollywood thinks that is the way to go. Hollywood CEO have no brains based on what I've seen, at least modern day ones don't. They are so caught up with making money then end up loosing it!

[Super Aurora]

I agree with everyone's statement on the subject matter. Hollywood seems to be no different than fashion as they go with the "in" thing or fad.

[WDWLocal]

Let's not forget bad managment. Any company that has Bob Iger as CEO can't be trusted. Any executive that cancels Twin Peaks has proven to me that he doesn't have a clue whatsoever about *anything*.

Watch what you say about Iger! You are wrong about him in every way.

He DOES have a clue about things. He's the best CEO Disney has had to date. He's been doing a great job of getting the company out of the dump that Evil Eisner got it into.

(And please don't start with any "Bring back Eisner" nonsense! To say something like that is VERY short-sighted.)

[Rudy Matt]

So is it safe to assume that The Lion King gave Disney unrealistic expecations for future films?

Yup. You don't even have to assume it, it is simple fact.

[Flanger-Hanger]

So is it safe to assume that The Lion King gave Disney unrealistic expecations for future films?

Yup. You don't even have to assume it, it is simple fact.

Sounds like Aqua should go see Dream on Silly Dreamer and Waking Sleeping Beauty!

And to respond to the original question, any fan base about anything is likely going to feel more passionate about what they're into than people who are not. Difference of opinions can lead to crazy stuff.

On a seperate note, I have to wonder what would have happened to The Rescuers had the scandal and big recall of tapes not occurred.

[Super Aurora]

Let's not forget bad managment. Any company that has Bob Iger as CEO can't be trusted. Any executive that cancels Twin Peaks has proven to me that he doesn't have a clue whatsoever about *anything*.

Watch what you say about Iger! You are wrong about him in every way.

He DOES have a clue about things. He's the best CEO Disney has had to date. He's been doing a great job of getting the company out of the dump that Evil Eisner got it into.

(And please don't start with any "Bring back Eisner" nonsense! To say something like that is VERY short-sighted.)

[BelleGirl]

For me the 'Fab four' still applies to The Beatles only! I see no remarkable difference in quality between the so-called Disney 'fab four' and the other films of the 90s that followed. But that is just me. Maybe "The Lion King" was the 'apogee of a trend' as Richard Corliss suggested in an article in Time Magazine.

I still don't know who coined the term 'fab four' in the first place. Was it a film critic?

[IagoZazu]

And Im so addicted to the Kingdom Hearts fanbase right now, it hurts.

You're talking about a fandom now...

Outside Disney, I'm more biased on video games by being a big fan of Nintendo. Of course, that's because I play nothing but my Nintendo Wii and Nintendo DS and I haven't even touched a 360 or PS3 in a long time, so that's obvious. Like my Disney fandom, I'm wanting to be less biased with Nintendo by trying out the other video games. My only problem is that the other guys don't have the kind of games that intrest me.

At any rate, it doesn't matter if it's Disney, video games, anime, comics, or TV. You're going to find that for every kind of entertainment there's its kind of fans and competition. It's better to be open to everything instead of just one thing.

[Goliath]

Watch what you say about Iger! You are wrong about him in every way.

Oh, shut the hell up already!