Widescreen or Fullscreen animated movies??? What's up?

[DARTH KNITE]

So I'm just curious about this. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but the Disney animated DVDs seem to be switching between fullscreen or widescreen formats. Is there a year when films stopped being filmed a certain way, or what? I feel like I'm missing something. A little help?

[Escapay]

I'm sure it's been discussed before

Yes, it has:

UltimateDisney.com: Aspect Ratios Explained (needs updating)

Disney's Widescreen and Fullscreen Issue explained

60s and 70s Aspect Ratios

and to an extent:

Correct aspect ratio for pre-widescreen releases...

So you don't have to pore through all the threads:

Filmed and Projected in 1.37:1 Academy Ratio:
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Pinocchio (1940)
Fantasia 1940)
Dumbo (1941)
Bambi (1942)
Saludos, Amigos (1943)
The Three Caballeros (1945)
Make Mine Music (1946)
Fun and Fancy Free (1947)
Melody Time (1948 )
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad (11949)
Cinderella (1950)
Alice in Wonderland (1951)
Peter Pan (1953)

Lady and the Tramp (1955) - this is the alternate Academy-drawn version, which was used for theatres not equipped with widescreen in 1955. It has been released on laserdisc, but not DVD.

101 Dalmatians (1961) - this was initially believed to be part of the "filmed in 1.37:1, exhibited in 1.66:1 or 1.75:1" group, but disneyfella acquired the official pressbook which states that 1.37:1 is the intended ratio for theatrical exhibition.

Filmed in CinemaScope:
Lady and the Tramp (1955) - the original camera negatives are 2.55:1, but due to the addition of the soundtrack to 35mm film prints, it is exhibited in 2.35:1. The 1999 Limited Issue DVD presents the 2.35:1 ratio and the 2006 Platinum Edition DVD presents the 2.55:1 ratio.

Filmed in Technirama:
Sleeping Beauty (1959) - the original camera negatives are 2.55:1 (it was originally to be shot in CinemaScope, but instead was done in Technirama). Super Technirama 70mm film prints were exhibited in 2.20:1 and 35mm reduction prints were exhibited in 2.35:1. The 2003 Special Edition DVD presents the 2.35:1 ratio, the 2008 Platinum Edition DVD & Blu-Ray present the 2.55:1 ratio.

The Black Cauldron (1985) - same as Sleeping Beauty, except it was always intended for Technirama, not CinemaScope. The 2000 Gold Collection DVD presents a non-anamorphic 2.35:1 ratio and not the 2.20:1 70mm ratio.

Filmed in 1.37:1 Academy Ratio, Projected in 1.66:1 or 1.75:1 Matted Widescreen:
The Sword in the Stone (1963) - DVD is 1.33:1

The Jungle Book (1967) - 1999 Limited Issue DVD is 1.33:1, 2007 Platinum Edition is 1.75:1.

The Aristocats (1970) - 2000 Gold Collection DVD is 1.33:1, 2008 Special Edition is 1.75:1. Matted ratio verified by an official pressbook acquired by disneyfella.

Robin Hood (1973) - 2000 Gold Collection DVD is 1.33:1, 2006 Most Wanted Edition is 1.75:1.

The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (1977) - DVD is 1.33:1

The Rescuers (1977) - 2003 DVD is 1.66:1. Intended theatrical ratio is 1.75:1. Matted ratio verified by an official pressbook acquired by disneyfella. A note of interest is that a comparison of the matted 1.66:1 film versus 1.33:1 clips on the DVD's "Under the Hat Villains" show that the "complete" image would measure 1.45:1 (see this thread for the image).

The Fox and the Hound (1981) - Intended theatrical ratio is 1.75:1. Matted ratio verified by an official pressbook acquired by disneyfella. A comparison of 1981's "The Illusion of Life" special also shows the film projected on a screen in matted form, though it is on all home video releases in 1.33:1.

The Great Mouse Detective (1986) - DVD is 1.66:1.

Oliver & Company (1988 ) - DVD is 1.66:1.

The Little Mermaid (1989) - 1999 Limited Issue DVD is 1.66:1, 2006 Platinum Edition DVD is 1.75:1.

Filmed in 1.66:1 CAPS, Projected in 1.85:1 Matted Widescreen: (unless noted, all are on DVD in 1.66:1)
The Rescuers Down Under (1990)
Beauty and the Beast (1991) - DVD is 1.85:1
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King (1994)
Pocahontas (1995)
The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996) - DVD is 1.85:1
Hercules (1997)
Mulan (1998 ) - 1999 Limited Issue/2000 Gold Collection DVD is 1.85:1, 2004 Special Edition DVD is 1.66:1
Tarzan (1999)
Fantasia 2000 (1999) - also exhibited in 1.55:1 IMAX.
Dinosaur (2000) - CGI film, rendered in 1.66:1, but exhibited in 1.78:1.
The Emperor's New Groove (2000)
Lilo & Stitch (2002)
Treasure Planet (2002)
Home on the Range (2004)

Filmed and Projected in 2.35:1 Widescreen:
Atlantis: The Lost Empire (2001)
Brother Bear (2003) - the Prologue is 1.85:1 and is pillarboxed on the 2.35:1 image.

CGI Films in 1.78:1
Chicken Little (2005)
Meet the Robinsons (2007)
Bolt (2008 )

Traditional Animation Films in 1.78:1 (?)
The Princess and the Frog (2009)

albert

[AlwaysOAR]

Filmed in CinemaScope:
Lady and the Tramp (1955) - the original camera negatives are 2.55:1, but due to the addition of the soundtrack to 35mm film prints, it is exhibited in 2.35:1. The 1999 Limited Issue DVD presents the 2.35:1 ratio and the 2006 Platinum Edition DVD presents the 2.55:1 ratio.

While I know that's true of Sleeping Beauty, I had thought that Lady was shown at both 2.55:1 and the redrawn academy ratio 1.33:1 upon it's initial release to theatres. Was it also shown at 2.35:1?

Filmed in Technirama:
Sleeping Beauty (1959) - the original camera negatives are 2.55:1 (it was originally to be shot in CinemaScope, but instead was done in Technirama). Super Technirama 70mm film prints were exhibited in 2.20:1 and 35mm reduction prints were exhibited in 2.35:1. The 2003 Special Edition DVD presents the 2.35:1 ratio, the 2008 Platinum Edition DVD & Blu-Ray present the 2.55:1 ratio.

The Black Cauldron (1985) - same as Sleeping Beauty, except it was always intended for Technirama, not CinemaScope. The 2000 Gold Collection DVD presents the 2.20:1 ratio (I think, I'll have to check).

albert

The Black Cauldron GC DVD is a non-anamorphic 2.35:1, hence my holdout for second release. (coming soon I hope)

[Escapay]

Filmed in CinemaScope:
Lady and the Tramp (1955) - the original camera negatives are 2.55:1, but due to the addition of the soundtrack to 35mm film prints, it is exhibited in 2.35:1. The 1999 Limited Issue DVD presents the 2.35:1 ratio and the 2006 Platinum Edition DVD presents the 2.55:1 ratio.

While I know that's true of Sleeping Beauty, I had thought that Lady was shown at both 2.55:1 and the redrawn academy ratio 1.33:1 upon it's initial release to theatres. Was it also shown at 2.35:1?

It must have been since all CinemaScope pictures at the time would be reduced from 2.55:1 to 2.35:1 with the addition of the soundtrack. Also, since Disney used 2.35:1 for the 1998 Laserdisc and 1999 DVD, they obviously had film prints in that ratio.

The Black Cauldron GC DVD is a non-anamorphic 2.35:1, hence my holdout for second release. (coming soon I hope)

Thanks, I'll update that part.

albert

[AlwaysOAR]

101 Dalmatians (1961) - this was initially believed to be part of the "filmed in 1.37:1, exhibited in 1.66:1 or 1.75:1" group, but disneyfella acquired the official pressbook which states that 1.37:1 is the intended ratio for theatrical exhibition.

While I reluctantly have to agree that's probably true, I have yet to see anyone comment since this info became available on this...



My question is on the 101 Dalmations Platinum, or for that matter the Limited Issue, are we getting the full theatrical ratio that Dalmations was shown in theatres, on the DVDs. Just wondering...

[AlwaysOAR]

While I know that's true of Sleeping Beauty, I had thought that Lady was shown at both 2.55:1 and the redrawn academy ratio 1.33:1 upon it's initial release to theatres. Was it also shown at 2.35:1?

It must have been since all CinemaScope pictures at the time would be reduced from 2.55:1 to 2.35:1 with the addition of the soundtrack. Also, since Disney used 2.35:1 for the 1998 Laserdisc and 1999 DVD, they obviously had film prints in that ratio.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, SB was only shown in theatres upon it's release in the 2.35:1 and the reformatted for academy 1.33:1? Making the recent platinum incorrect in it's presentation? Thanks for the info...

[ajmrowland]

Oh, the Platinum is very correct. It just wasn't initially shown in 2.55:1. Doesn't mean it wasn't made that way.

[AlwaysOAR]

Oh, the Platinum is very correct. It just wasn't initially shown in 2.55:1. Doesn't mean it wasn't made that way.

While I respect your opinion, I just don't agree. I want the original ratio(s) a film was released in theatres in, not the way it was filmed. Most live action and many animated films since 1953 have been filmed one way, and matted in the ratio the director wants in their release to theatres. Now they could easily put both the theatrical ratio and the open matte ratio on a two or more DVD release, most other studios do. But the original theatrical ratio shouldn't be sacrificed at the expense, IMO, of another ratio.

[Escapay]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, SB was only shown in theatres upon it's release in the 2.35:1 and the reformatted for academy 1.33:1? Making the recent platinum incorrect in it's presentation? Thanks for the info...

I think you meant Lady and the Tramp, not Sleeping Beauty.

Anyways, I did a quick re-check at Wikipedia (yeah, yeah) to see if it hd more to say about the addition of soundtracks, and forgot about this:

• The original aspect ratio of CinemaScope was to be 2.66:1, shooting the full aperture ratio of a 35mm film. The three-track stereophonic soundtrack, a major selling point of the system, would be interlocked on a 35mm strip of magnetic film, as was the case with a number of 3-D Films of the time.
  
  When it was considered too costly and beset with synchronization problems, Hazard E. Reeves' sound company designed a method of coating 35mm stock with magnetic stripes. Four tracks would replace the original three, with the extra enabling a surround channel. In order to fit these tracks in otherwise unavailable areas of the film, the normal KS perforations were reduced to nearly a square, thus, the CinemaScope, or CS perf was born. With the addition of the tracks, the ratio of the image was reduced to 2.55:1.
  
  In March of 1954, with the demand of drive-ins and hard-top theaters unable to play stereophonic sound, Fox re-designed the CinemaScope print to fit a standard optical track in. With the center point of the imaged shifted due to the optical soundtrack, the aspect ratio of the image was now reduced to 2.35:1.

So it can be safe to assume that Lady and the Tramp with a stereophonic soundtrack was 2.55:1, while the movie is 2.35:1 when with the optical soundtrack. I should probably reword my original blurb for the movie to reflect on that. Also, when you compare Lady and the Tramp to other CinemaScope pictures of 1955 (The Seven Year Itch, Guys & Dolls, Oklahoma!: CinemaScope Version, Rebel Without A Cause, etc.), all of them use the 2.55:1 ratio.

albert

[AlwaysOAR]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, SB was only shown in theatres upon it's release in the 2.35:1 and the reformatted for academy 1.33:1? Making the recent platinum incorrect in it's presentation? Thanks for the info...

I think you meant Lady and the Tramp, not Sleeping Beauty.

Anyways, I did a quick re-check at Wikipedia (yeah, yeah) to see if it hd more to say about the addition of soundtracks, and forgot about this:

• The original aspect ratio of CinemaScope was to be 2.66:1, shooting the full aperture ratio of a 35mm film. The three-track stereophonic soundtrack, a major selling point of the system, would be interlocked on a 35mm strip of magnetic film, as was the case with a number of 3-D Films of the time.
  
  When it was considered too costly and beset with synchronization problems, Hazard E. Reeves' sound company designed a method of coating 35mm stock with magnetic stripes. Four tracks would replace the original three, with the extra enabling a surround channel. In order to fit these tracks in otherwise unavailable areas of the film, the normal KS perforations were reduced to nearly a square, thus, the CinemaScope, or CS perf was born. With the addition of the tracks, the ratio of the image was reduced to 2.55:1.
  
  In March of 1954, with the demand of drive-ins and hard-top theaters unable to play stereophonic sound, Fox re-designed the CinemaScope print to fit a standard optical track in. With the center point of the imaged shifted due to the optical soundtrack, the aspect ratio of the image was now reduced to 2.35:1.

So it can be safe to assume that Lady and the Tramp with a stereophonic soundtrack was 2.55:1, while the movie is 2.35:1 when with the optical soundtrack. I should probably reword my original blurb for the movie to reflect on that. Also, when you compare Lady and the Tramp to other CinemaScope pictures of 1955 (The Seven Year Itch, Guys & Dolls, Oklahoma!: CinemaScope Version, Rebel Without A Cause, etc.), all of them use the 2.55:1 ratio.

albert

Okay, so L&TT, and I did mean L&TT not SB (I hate when I do that), had three theatrical ratios - 2.55:1, 2.35:1 & 1.33:1, if I'm reading/understanding you correctly. Thanks again Albert.

[Escapay]

Okay, so L&TT, and I did mean L&TT not SB (I hate when I do that), had three theatrical ratios - 2.55:1, 2.35:1 & 1.33:1, if I'm reading/understanding you correctly. Thanks again Albert.

Hopefully yes, and you're welcome.

Though now I wonder if someone will chime in and say "Disney should release that 2.66:1 ratio if it exists!"

albert

[AlwaysOAR]

101 Dalmatians (1961) - this was initially believed to be part of the "filmed in 1.37:1, exhibited in 1.66:1 or 1.75:1" group, but disneyfella acquired the official pressbook which states that 1.37:1 is the intended ratio for theatrical exhibition.

While I reluctantly have to agree that's probably true, I have yet to see anyone comment since this info became available on this...


My question is on the 101 Dalmations Platinum, or for that matter the Limited Issue, are we getting the full theatrical ratio that Dalmations was shown in theatres, on the DVDs. Just wondering...

Anyone, anyone... Bueller, Bueller...

[KubrickFan]

While I reluctantly have to agree that's probably true, I have yet to see anyone comment since this info became available on this...


My question is on the 101 Dalmations Platinum, or for that matter the Limited Issue, are we getting the full theatrical ratio that Dalmations was shown in theatres, on the DVDs. Just wondering...

Anyone, anyone... Bueller, Bueller...

Just because there's image on the film itself doesn't mean that's meant to be visible.

[AlwaysOAR]

Anyone, anyone... Bueller, Bueller...

Just because there's image on the film itself doesn't mean that's meant to be visible.

I think you misunderstood me... if Dalmations was filmed and shown in theatres upon it's release at the academy ratio of 1.33:1, then their shouldn't be that much image showing on the side, unless I'm mistaken. Which it could mean that the image we have on DVD is a zoomed in version of the academy ratio, I just don't know.

[Poody]

This is random but it bugs me a lot....

Why in the world if a movie on DVD is in widscreen (with no full screen option) do they make the MAIN MENU of the DVD in Full Screen???

[KubrickFan]

I think you misunderstood me... if Dalmations was filmed and shown in theatres upon it's release at the academy ratio of 1.33:1, then their shouldn't be that much image showing on the side, unless I'm mistaken. Which it could mean that the image we have on DVD is a zoomed in version of the academy ratio, I just don't know.

I don't think I did. Just because there is more picture info on the film frame itself, that doesn't mean it's meant to be seen when the film is projected. Maybe the side gave way to an audio track on the side, while the widescreen bit you're comparing it to didn't. Fact is that most of the animated movies have an aspect ratio of about 1.20:1 if you only look at the frames themselves. But they're projected in 1.85:1 when matted, and that's the way they're supposed to look like.

[Dragonlion]

Poody...Because they feel like it? [/b]

[Poody]

^well that's a load of crap!

[AlwaysOAR]

I think you misunderstood me... if Dalmations was filmed and shown in theatres upon it's release at the academy ratio of 1.33:1, then their shouldn't be that much image showing on the side, unless I'm mistaken. Which it could mean that the image we have on DVD is a zoomed in version of the academy ratio, I just don't know.

I don't think I did. Just because there is more picture info on the film frame itself, that doesn't mean it's meant to be seen when the film is projected. Maybe the side gave way to an audio track on the side, while the widescreen bit you're comparing it to didn't. Fact is that most of the animated movies have an aspect ratio of about 1.20:1 if you only look at the frames themselves. But they're projected in 1.85:1 when matted, and that's the way they're supposed to look like.

Okay, I've been off the net for a few days... I had thought that all movies pre-1953 and those that used the same methods after, 101 Dalmations having been proved to be intended in the academy ratio, were filmed in 1.33:1, and with the soundtrack added, projected in theatres at the 1.37:1 ratio, resulting in a slight sliver of the filmed frame disappearing with the soundtrack.
This image from the platinum, supposedly the full 1.37:1 ratio, with the resulting image on that side, is more than a slight sliver. My only conclusion is that we aren't getting the full 1.37 ratio on the DVD, being that the pressbook that Disneyfella got states that Dalmations is to be projected in the academy ratio, and not matted at a wider image.

[KubrickFan]

Okay, I've been off the net for a few days... I had thought that all movies pre-1953 and those that used the same methods after, 101 Dalmations having been proved to be intended in the academy ratio, were filmed in 1.33:1, and with the soundtrack added, projected in theatres at the 1.37:1 ratio, resulting in a slight sliver of the filmed frame disappearing with the soundtrack.
This image from the platinum, supposedly the full 1.37:1 ratio, with the resulting image on that side, is more than a slight sliver. My only conclusion is that we aren't getting the full 1.37 ratio on the DVD, being that the pressbook that Disneyfella got states that Dalmations is to be projected in the academy ratio, and not matted at a wider image.

Again, there's a difference between what's on the film itself, and what's intended to be projected. I admire your 'quest' for OAR, but perhaps there is no problem here.

And to be really nitpicking, you're already getting the 1.37:1/1.33:1 ratio. A ratio is just a shape, whether it's zoomed in or not is a different subject.

I also still think it's odd that every major studio converted to widescreen moviemaking in the 50's, but that 101 Dalmatians apparently slipped through. But that's a different matter.