Why are the Disney Animated Classics differnet in the UK?

[Escapay]

For years, BVHE in Europe has had different "official" lists for the DACs when compared to BVHE US. BVHE Europe almost always included the hybrid films (Mary Poppins, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Pete's Dragon) to their list of the Classics, and according to Neal (I think), they used to be included in the US official list before they were removed in the late 80s. There was a big brouhaha when The Wild was added to the BVHE UK list for the classics (two threads were even devoted to it here: click here or click here to read them). And of course, when BVHE US added Dinosaur last year, it caused some hubbub as well.

But why bother with any lists at all? Can't we enjoy a movie for what it is without attaching it to a list or number?

albert

[SpringHeelJack]

Can't we enjoy a movie for what it is without attaching it to a list or number?

Um, if you can't watch a movie without becoming extremely anal-retentive about how it fits into a canon, maybe you shouldn't even be on UD, Albert.

[milojthatch]

For years, BVHE in Europe has had different "official" lists for the DACs when compared to BVHE US. BVHE Europe almost always included the hybrid films (Mary Poppins, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Pete's Dragon) to their list of the Classics, and according to Neal (I think), they used to be included in the US official list before they were removed in the late 80s. There was a big brouhaha when The Wild was added to the BVHE UK list for the classics (two threads were even devoted to it here: click here or click here to read them). And of course, when BVHE US added Dinosaur last year, it caused some hubbub as well.

But why bother with any lists at all? Can't we enjoy a movie for what it is without attaching it to a list or number?

albert

Like I said, Europe does some strange stuff!

Thanks for the info, that makes more sense. I have a hard time thinking of Dinosaur as in the official cannon, but it defiantly belongs there more then "The Wild."

I don't know, I'm been rather anal about the "official cannon" since I was a very young child. Some habits don't die easy, plus it is kind of important for my DVD covers that I'm making.

[Goliath]

I've read that leaflet, too, but I didn't add any of the stickers on my dvd's, because I don't like the commercial "collect them all" nature of it. Plus, I'll probably never buy certain titles (Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Pete's Dragon, The Wild, Bolt, Chicken Little) so it makes no sense for me to add numbers to dvd's when I'm not going to buy them all and have "holes" in my collection.

I was more shocked by finding out that The Little Mermaid will *not* be a Diamond Classic!

[jlppr]

I don't know, I'm been rather anal about the "official cannon" since I was a very young child. Some habits don't die easy, plus it is kind of important for my DVD covers that I'm making.

i've always been anal about the canon list as well. personally though i like to include marry poppins, bedknobs and broomsticks, and pete's dragon as canon. i was actually surprised to see dinosaur as a canon recently. i know it wasn't always one but it's a good movie. the wild should definitely NOT be a canon. as for sequels only fantasia 2000 and the rescuers down under. when i was younger i also used to think that a goofy movie was part of the canon

[Elladorine]

But why bother with any lists at all? Can't we enjoy a movie for what it is without attaching it to a list or number?

Blasphemy!!! You'll label your movies with numbers and like it!

[milojthatch]

I don't know, I'm been rather anal about the "official cannon" since I was a very young child. Some habits don't die easy, plus it is kind of important for my DVD covers that I'm making.

i've always been anal about the canon list as well. personally though i like to include marry poppins, bedknobs and broomsticks, and pete's dragon as canon. i was actually surprised to see dinosaur as a canon recently. i know it wasn't always one but it's a good movie. the wild should definitely NOT be a canon. as for sequels only fantasia 2000 and the rescuers down under. when i was younger i also used to think that a goofy movie was part of the canon

I mean if we are really going to count toughs films, why not add "Enchanted," "Nightmare Before Christmas," "Ducktales The Movie," Doug's First Movie," "Recess The Movie," "Song of the South," "So Dear to My Heart," "James and The Giant Peach," and all the theatrical Pooh films.

[Elladorine]

Honestly, this sounds more to me like a "collect them all" gimmick than anything else. If I was gonna add numbers to my movies I might be tempted to do it my own way, which wouldn't follow any official list.

[drnilescrane]

i've always been anal about the canon list as well. personally though i like to include marry poppins, bedknobs and broomsticks, and pete's dragon as canon. i was actually surprised to see dinosaur as a canon recently. i know it wasn't always one but it's a good movie. the wild should definitely NOT be a canon. as for sequels only fantasia 2000 and the rescuers down under. when i was younger i also used to think that a goofy movie was part of the canon

I mean if we are really going to count toughs films, why not add "Enchanted," "Nightmare Before Christmas," "Ducktales The Movie," Doug's First Movie," "Recess The Movie," "James and The Giant Peach," and all the theatrical Pooh films.

The way I see the cannon is the fact that legally, there are four entities in play - WDAS, Pixar, DisneyToon and The Walt Disney STUDIOS. Each of these studios has their own greenlight authority and produces/executive produces the films independently of each other, but they are all distributed and marketed by Walt Disney PICTURES.

Using a hybrid film for example, that film would have been greenlit and produced by the Walt Disney Studios. However, they would have contracted WDAS to provide the animation as part of a WDS production. I don't consider this to be cannon. Similarly, James and the Giant peach would have been a joint production/contract with an external studio.

Dinosaur IS cannon. It was greenlit by and produced by a division of Walt Disney Feature Animation under Peter Schneider/Tom Schumacher, not the main studio. The Secret Lab's building was even called Feature Animation Northside.

However, there are exceptions. While The Wild was paid for and produced by WDFA, like Toy Story, I don't consider it cannon because it was not produced by a wholly owned subsidiary. I feel A Goofy Movie SHOULD be cannon because that was produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation at their French studio - It was greenlit by Jeffery K & Peter Schneider as a Feature Animation project at one of their studios. Does that mean the first 6 minutes of Hunchback is not cannon either?

[Sotiris]

I was more shocked by finding out that The Little Mermaid will *not* be a Diamond Classic!

What!? Where did you hear that??

[BelleGirl]

I've read that leaflet, too, but I didn't add any of the stickers on my dvd's, because I don't like the commercial "collect them all" nature of it. Plus, I'll probably never buy certain titles (Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Pete's Dragon, The Wild, Bolt, Chicken Little) so it makes no sense for me to add numbers to dvd's when I'm not going to buy them all and have "holes" in my collection.

I was more shocked by finding out that The Little Mermaid will *not* be a Diamond Classic!

I'm not inending to collect them all either, but since new dvd releases will be coming out with a number on the case, I think it might look a bit better if the older dvd's have numbers too, so that the new ones won't stick out so much. I can always take the stickers off after all. (but what to do with te carton slipcase?)

[jlppr]

I mean if we are really going to count toughs films, why not add "Enchanted," "Nightmare Before Christmas," "Ducktales The Movie," Doug's First Movie," "Recess The Movie," "Song of the South," "So Dear to My Heart," "James and The Giant Peach," and all the theatrical Pooh films.

i agree wit some of the movies you mentioned, i wouldn't include doug or recess as part of the canon, some of the others yes

[milojthatch]

I mean if we are really going to count toughs films, why not add "Enchanted," "Nightmare Before Christmas," "Ducktales The Movie," Doug's First Movie," "Recess The Movie," "Song of the South," "So Dear to My Heart," "James and The Giant Peach," and all the theatrical Pooh films.

i agree wit some of the movies you mentioned, i wouldn't include doug or recess as part of the canon, some of the others yes

I wouldn't count any of them. My point is where does this end? The "list" goes back so far as I'm aware to back when Walt himself was around and he never counted Marry Poppins or the other films like that.

Check out some of the trailers for the "Cannon" films, they even give the number for that film. That number depending on the film match the list I gave.

An example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNtbZf0JhmA

[pick]

To anyone who bought the dvd... could you post pics from the Snow White number, and the stickers? I don't live in the US, and I'm curious to see it! =)

[Duckburger]

First post - let's make it a good one.

There's a very logic explanation to why those movies are not included in the 'classic' line-up. Nightmare before Christmas is almost completely stop-motion - and originally Touchstone. The animation in Enchanted was outsourced and wasn't done 'in house', same goes for all the DisneyToon Studios movies that were mentioned. So, that means the list only includes movies that involve animation done by the 'in-house' Disney animators - in America. Therefore explaining why Europe does include Mary Poppins, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, The Wild, etc., because the animation in those movies were also 'in-house'. The question is more, why doesn't Disney in America do this, much easier. Especially The Wild, I mean if they can include Dinosaurs, why not that one?

BTW: This is what I think, not sure. Though it sounds very logical to me.

[Margos]

Well, I believe "Dinosaur" was done in-house, although I'm not completely sure. "The Wild," however, was made by some tiny, obscure studio that gave it to Disney to distibute so it could make more money.

[BelleGirl]

Well, I believe "Dinosaur" was done in-house, although I'm not completely sure. "The Wild," however, was made by some tiny, obscure studio that gave it to Disney to distibute so it could make more money.

And that's why it makes no sense that "The Wild" is included in the list and "Enchanted" not.

[Margos]

I agree. Besides, "Enchanted" was a wonderful, delightful film. I've never seen "The Wild," but I was told by a friend that it's basically an inferior reversal of DreamWorks' "Madagascar." If something can be called inferior to anything that DreamWorks has done, then it certainly shouldn't be considered a part of the Disney cannon.

[jotaabs]

I think you're talking about this

http://www.cinemapassion.com/covers_tem ... 062006.jpg
This is the french 2001 Snow White dvd cover. It has the nº1.

France lists 97 "Great Classics" (grand classiques). Here's the list: http://www.lesgrandsclassiques.new.fr/ (click the link 'List Complete')

They list almost every disney movie as you can see:

http://www.jaquette.ch/images/jaquette- ... custom.jpg Song of the South is nº 9

http://www.covers-qualite.com/_covers/7987.jpg The Return of Jafar is nº 39


Portugal and Spain list 50, with Bolt being the last entry:

http://images2.coveralia.com/dvd/b/Bolt-Caratula.jpg

[Margos]

Egad! No offense, but could you maybe link to those images instead of placing them directly on the board? It's really stretching everything out and causing my computer (and probably other people's computers as well) to move slowly.