The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part II

[Jules]

Could that good friend of yours be Floyd Norman?

Just guessing ...

[Neal]

Early stages? They are doing clean-up work. The film is almost done, I thought?

[bluemoon86]

Yeah it can't possibly be in early stages, it's getting released in less than six months.

[pap64]

Recent tests? I know the film is still in production but why would it still be doing tests? These tests should be done before production even begins. Did he mean an early version of the film? The one Disney screened a few months ago?

No offense to that animator but I rather see it for myself and judge from there. The previews do make the film look magical and colorful and while I have noticed the humor technically Aladdin could also be qualified as a "Warner Bros." movie and that was a great and magical film.

Who was this animator?

[Siren]

Its coming out in November right? I would think all the major animation is finished and currently the post-production of cleaning up the audio track, soundtrack etc is going on. If its being released in just 4 months, a vast majority of it is probably finished.

Also on the WB's humor comment...I've only seen what has been officially released, clips and trailers and I don't see a WB humor connection. Does it have the same magic as say Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty, no probably not. The humor in this one is more dated for modern times, both when the movie is set and for the audience of today. Aurora would never had said, "Excuse me?" with that Southern attitude. Even great movies like Finding Nemo and Lion King have fart jokes. Its a sign of the times. Do we label that Nickelodeon humor?

[pap64]

Its coming out in November right? I would think all the major animation is finished and currently the post-production of cleaning up the audio track, soundtrack etc is going on. If its being released in just 4 months, a vast majority of it is probably finished.

Also on the WB's humor comment...I've only seen what has been officially released, clips and trailers and I don't see a WB humor connection. Does it have the same magic as say Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty, no probably not. The humor in this one is more dated for modern times, both when the movie is set and for the audience of today. Aurora would never had said, "Excuse me?" with that Southern attitude. Even great movies like Finding Nemo and Lion King have fart jokes. Its a sign of the times. Do we label that Nickelodeon humor?

It comes out on December 11th, which means they have more than enough time to finish the film.

Going back to the humor, from what I've seen it looks pretty tame compared to what we have seen in recent animated films (mainly Dreamworks).

Everyone seems to remember that this film is being directed by Ron Musker and John Clemens, guys who LOVE to inject their movies with lots of humor. The Little Mermaid had Flounder, Sebastian, Chef Louie and even Ursula which has a comedic edge. Aladdin had the Genie making pop culture references faster than a minute of Family Guy. Hercules was 100% comedic and finally Treasure Planet had BEN, Doppler, Amelia and that fart speak alien.

Yet their films are excellent and unforgettable with enough humor and heart to satisfy any type of audience. Aladdin was very comedic yet it features one of the most magical musical moments ever.

My favorite still from Princess and the Frog is the one where Naveen and Tiana are dancing on lily pads while Ray is providing mood lighting. I thought that was pretty damn magical. And of course the iconic balcony scene where it pretty much pays tribute to Disney characters wishing upon a star.

[Disney's Divinity]

Ron Musker and John Clemens have thus far delivered, but I don't think that means we should automatically think this is going to be as good or even as successful as their other films. Particularly focusing on the comedy, Treasure Planet was pulled down by most of those characters you mentioned and I know I wouldn't want another Aladdin.

As for the Charlotte clip, I haven't watched it. I'm trying my best not to spoil much of anything on this movie until I go see it in theaters. But if the film does revolve around your theory of Tiana not believing in magic or wishing stars, I'll be severely disappointed. That storyline's cliche and overdone, only good enough for Disney in the form of a sequel (Return to Neverland). I just hope it has a good plot instead of the "I'm a cynic--this stuff is not my thing" nonsense. But I'm always open to surprises.

And while I sympathize with your dislike of the Princesses

You do?

I meant that I know what it feels like when something you don't like keeps getting made. Sort of how I felt about the DTV sequels or the romantic, teenage vampire crap.

[Siren]

I wonder what leads upt to Tiana looking out on that balcony. Before Naveen shows up, she has a mixture of sadness and wistfulness to her face. I think Charlotte is the key to that scene. Either its something Charlotte says or does that reminds Tiana how important wishing and magic was to them as children. I doubt she says anything out loud about it. But I bet her fairytale dreams are going through her head and then she sees Naveen, as a frog, and being she was in deep thought of magical moments, she asks if he was looking for a kiss....not expecting him to speak. Where as many of Disney's other princesses thought nothing of animals communicating with them. There was no shock with them. Where as Tiana is surprised.

[pap64]

Ron Musker and John Clemens have thus far delivered, but I don't think that means we should automatically think this is going to be as good or even as successful as their other films. Particularly focusing on the comedy, Treasure Planet was pulled down by most of those characters you mentioned and I know I wouldn't want another Aladdin.

You are right, but I am not about to write them off either. Even if Hercules and Treasure Planet are not my personal faves they manage to deliver very solid storytelling, humor, music and heart.

I honestly believe that fans want this movie to be EXACTLY like the older Disney films, especially the Walt era ones. I realized a long time ago that while this movie pays homage to the Disney era it will also be very unique in style and presentation.

And I think people are getting confused about Tiana. I never said she is cynical towards magic nor she lacks the quality of a Disney Princess. Once again I point to the "Almost There" scene in the previews in which she is overjoyed to see her future restaurant., even though its very old and destroyed. That to me tells me that she IS hopeful. But instead of sitting down and wish for it to happen she works towards it, a very modern ideal.

As for Charlotte and the balcony scene, I honestly believe the scene is just making fun of people who believe things happen like that. Think about it for a second. Tiana is just annoyed because Charlotte is throwing a fit over her prince not showing up and the evening star not granting her wish. I think Charlotte says something that hits Tiana hard. Maybe it has to do with her father and her dream of the restaurant? Maybe Charlotte told her that dreams don't always come true, forcing Tiana to go into this hopeful mode where she remembers the magical stories her parents told her, and when she sees the evening star it stirs a series of emotions that take her into a journey of self discovery?

I think the previews aren't showing the whole thing because it is a pivotal scene in the movie. Anyone notice how these previews mainly show the comedic elements? Notice how they were shown on the DISNEY CHANNEL, currently tween central?

I believe that fans are coming up with these negative conclusions because Disney was catering to the lowest common denominator with these previews. Everyone thought the movie looked magical and amazing in the trailer, which showcased everything about the movie (magic, danger, romance, comedy, music and dreams coming true).

OK, sorry. I was rambling but the movie's story does intrigue me since it looks to be more than what it seems.

[Siren]

Oh, I don't think you are saying she is cynical, just more logical. One can wish, but still know, they have to work to earn what they want.

[Neal]

SPOILERS:























We know from a book based on the movie that Tiana comes to the party at Charlotte's in that brown/beige outfit. She has made beignets for Charlotte. Charlotte has promised to pay the remaining fee for the restaurant thanks to this order. Tiana spots Mr. and Mr. Fenner - twin brothers who own the rights to the building she wants for her restaurant. Turns out, they aren't going to grant her the lease. They are in a horse costume, and as they walk away, she pulls their tail, it comes off and she flies into her beignets. She ruins her outfit so Charlotte tells Tiana she can wear one of her dresses. Tiana puts on the blue dress we're used to seeing.

So, I believe that when she is on the balcony with Charlotte in brown outfit is before the accident with the beignets.

The scene after is (I believe) her realizing that nothing works out as planned. Here she was so happy that she finally had the money to buy the building, yet, the Fenner Brothers screw her over. Being as she now is wishing upon a star when before she told Charlotte not to, and earlier she was in the brown outfit but is now in the blue dress, this seems to be the proper order of events.

[Disney's Divinity]

You are right, but I am not about to write them off either. Even if Hercules and Treasure Planet are not my personal faves they manage to deliver very solid storytelling, humor, music and heart.

True, but my point was that we shouldn't lean one way or another. The people involved don't guarantee a good or bad movie.

I honestly believe that fans want this movie to be EXACTLY like the older Disney films, especially the Walt era ones. I realized a long time ago that while this movie pays homage to the Disney era it will also be very unique in style and presentation.

I guess you're not talking to me, but I wouldn't want this movie to try to be like the older films. Not just because it would most likely fail to do so, but because I wanted to see a new Disney film. But I don't think there's anything wrong with hoping the film has class like older films.

I believe that fans are coming up with these negative conclusions because Disney was catering to the lowest common denominator with these previews. Everyone thought the movie looked magical and amazing in the trailer, which showcased everything about the movie (magic, danger, romance, comedy, music and dreams coming true).

I personally didn't feel any different about the trailer than I do now. There's still the sense of hope that this could be a good movie, but there's also that feeling of dread that this could turn out to be horrible.

[pap64]

For "Princess and the Frog" to be a horrible movie they would have to royally screw it up. I would accept "disappointment" and expect the movie to be good but not good enough. But I doubt it will be horrible. Not even Chicken Little, which was maligned by me and many others at the time of release, is horrible.

[ajmrowland]

I don't think Tiana's a cynic, per se. Her wishing upon a star might be that she's waiting for the right guy and believing in love at first sight. This would make it even more unlikely that she'd fall in love with Naveen, which she does in the end.

[kurtadisneyite]

A good friend of mine, a Disney animator since SLEEPING BEAUTY, saw a bunch of recent tests of TPATF. His general comments:
Technically it looks great.
Storywise, it's more akin to Warner Brothers than old school Disney. It doesn't create a "magical world" rather than present a contemporary viewpoint and dialog lacking any special qualities akin to the older Disney films.

Both my friend and I come from an older era.
But we both understand that culture and audiences change, and films have to change with them. (example; Cinderella III's updating its heroine to take charge/act directly).

Whether the "world" TPATF creates is appreciated enough to last 50 or more years (as most of Walt's films have) will be decided by future audiences, not us. They may fervently embrace Tiana and her like as they cast off the older "princesses" like Velveteen rabbits.

In any event, It's good that Disney is trying to restart and update its 2D franchise, though in all honesty there are many old Disney hands that would like to help, but will __never__ get the chance.

[Kyle]

there are many old Disney hands that would like to help, but will __never__ get the chance.

what do you mean by that?

[CampbellzSoup]

Wow ok so I'm gonna dip out of this thread until November as it seems to have become spoiler ridden...

to those who read the spoilers or who have to get every ounce of inforamtion on the movie, be warned now, you are going to be highly dissapointed.

[pap64]

Wow ok so I'm gonna dip out of this thread until November as it seems to have become spoiler ridden...

to those who read the spoilers or who have to get every ounce of inforamtion on the movie, be warned now, you are going to be highly dissapointed.

That's what I've been saying for a while now. I admit I have somewhat ignored my own advice but I still kept away from many spoilers. The only thing I've seen are the official promotional material released by Disney themselves and they are pretty basic(we still haven't even seen a musical scene from the movie).

[yukitora]

All the previews make it took like a timeless classic, but I felt that the timing of things in the sneak preview just felt odd. In the end, I think it'll be a great, sucessful movie.

I also thinks it's funny how they keep saying stuff like "she'll won't be waiting for her prince" and "the prince won't be just a prize" when those movies (the three walt princess films) will always be regarded as highly suprior to anything else. and to snow whites/cinderella/rose's defence, theres not much else you can do when your locked in a tower or in a coma

[Elladorine]

Luckily I'm not a very spoiler-sensitive person.