What a great read. I really truly agree with you as well. While Blu Ray still might not have an advantage in sales with the already 8 year old DVD it's quickly gaining ground. I also do like Disney's approach to including the DVD along with the Blu Ray as it sorta gives customers an insentive to buy without feeling like they missed out.
Personally I love Blu Ray. People here might not think it's worth it, but if you have a high def television set with surround sound it truly is a treat to have these films in the best possible viewing experience.
Is Disney Done with DVD? (The Never Ending Blu-Ray Debate)
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ajmrowland
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CampbellzSoup
This is why Blu Ray will never be the no 1 format:
Look what happened to the regular CD.
Many things with superior quality have been on the market (super audio cd, etc), and some of them had big promotional campaigns.
It takes A LOT for something to become the mainstream format.
But, the main reason the regular cd is still the main stream format, is that more and more things will become digital. With the computers, downloads, Itunes, mp3's, a whole new digital era is coming.
So I think in time you can buy some sort of sticks with digital data and the Disney Classics on them.
And some sort of players will be available that play regular dvd's, but also have a port to put such a stick in. Or maybe you can just download them.
Blu-ray is just an extra little "in between step".
The players will always play dvd's, and this next digital step won't be far from now. So, for the Blu-fanboys it's nice that some players also play bly-rays, but I predict it will follow the same path as the audio business.
So regular dvd's will always be there, and players will always play them, and maybe Blu-ray can exist next to it.
They won't be replaced by a new format, the will be replaced in time by the "digitalization".
Look what happened to the regular CD.
Many things with superior quality have been on the market (super audio cd, etc), and some of them had big promotional campaigns.
It takes A LOT for something to become the mainstream format.
But, the main reason the regular cd is still the main stream format, is that more and more things will become digital. With the computers, downloads, Itunes, mp3's, a whole new digital era is coming.
So I think in time you can buy some sort of sticks with digital data and the Disney Classics on them.
And some sort of players will be available that play regular dvd's, but also have a port to put such a stick in. Or maybe you can just download them.
Blu-ray is just an extra little "in between step".
The players will always play dvd's, and this next digital step won't be far from now. So, for the Blu-fanboys it's nice that some players also play bly-rays, but I predict it will follow the same path as the audio business.
So regular dvd's will always be there, and players will always play them, and maybe Blu-ray can exist next to it.
They won't be replaced by a new format, the will be replaced in time by the "digitalization".
Last edited by Marky_198 on Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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CampbellzSoup
Marky, and everyone else, you keep ignoring the fact Blu-ray has a higher market penetration NOW than DVD did in it's equivalent time period, despite the fact Blu-ray was locked in a "format war" with HD DVD for the first 2/3rds of its life cycle - not something DVD had to contend with.
There's plenty of reasons CD is still preferred over DVD-A or SACD, which I won't go into detail now but include:
* Unable to record on DVD-A or SACD at an affordable cost
* Even if you could, there's no high-quality sources to record from - you may as well just record onto a CD
* The equipment needed to benefit from the higher quality sound is expensive and bulky - people prefer their music to be portable - see how much more popular iTunes music is over iTunes TV and Film downloads.
Blu-ray is recordable, there are HD transmissions which benefit from recording in HD on Blu-ray and finally with the screen resolution of laptops (and no doubt soon to be made portable BD players) there's still an advantage in having HD media, even on some portable devices.
The higher quality audio formats were never serious rivals to CD - how many people do you know who have invested in a $500+ audio player and speakers? Not many, because most people aren't that serious about music. How many people do you know who have bought a new HD ready TV in the past 3-4 years, or are likely to in the upcoming 2-4 years?
As for movie digital downloads - a HD movie with proper uncompressed, high quality sound can be upwards of 25GB. An music album is less than a third of a single GB - individual tracks coming to less than 10MB. There's no comparison. Movies which are downloadable now in HD (such as on XBox Live) aren't full HD (being only 720p) and only have bog-standard DD 5.1 soundtracks. People will not be downloading HD movies en mass for a long, long time. I'd bust my monthly download limit simply by downloading a single 25GB movie as it stands at the moment.
I rest my case.
There's plenty of reasons CD is still preferred over DVD-A or SACD, which I won't go into detail now but include:
* Unable to record on DVD-A or SACD at an affordable cost
* Even if you could, there's no high-quality sources to record from - you may as well just record onto a CD
* The equipment needed to benefit from the higher quality sound is expensive and bulky - people prefer their music to be portable - see how much more popular iTunes music is over iTunes TV and Film downloads.
Blu-ray is recordable, there are HD transmissions which benefit from recording in HD on Blu-ray and finally with the screen resolution of laptops (and no doubt soon to be made portable BD players) there's still an advantage in having HD media, even on some portable devices.
The higher quality audio formats were never serious rivals to CD - how many people do you know who have invested in a $500+ audio player and speakers? Not many, because most people aren't that serious about music. How many people do you know who have bought a new HD ready TV in the past 3-4 years, or are likely to in the upcoming 2-4 years?
As for movie digital downloads - a HD movie with proper uncompressed, high quality sound can be upwards of 25GB. An music album is less than a third of a single GB - individual tracks coming to less than 10MB. There's no comparison. Movies which are downloadable now in HD (such as on XBox Live) aren't full HD (being only 720p) and only have bog-standard DD 5.1 soundtracks. People will not be downloading HD movies en mass for a long, long time. I'd bust my monthly download limit simply by downloading a single 25GB movie as it stands at the moment.
I rest my case.
Most of my Blu-ray collection some of my UK discs aren't on their database
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Flanger-Hanger
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Blu-ray sales have apparently double this quarter over the one last year. Apparently now there are 10.5 million US homes that have the capablity to play Blu-ray. $99 players are coming this Christmas, down from $128 last holiday season. Lots of stores carry them and advertising is much more plentiful than laserdisc ever had.
Netty's right about downloads. Full HD would be way too huge. Not to mention all the bonus features that would come with it. Plus I would prefer not to watch all my movies on my computer or buy several external hardrives to house them all.
Edit: Post 2,000!!
Netty's right about downloads. Full HD would be way too huge. Not to mention all the bonus features that would come with it. Plus I would prefer not to watch all my movies on my computer or buy several external hardrives to house them all.
Edit: Post 2,000!!
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ajmrowland
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About 5 yeaqrs ahead of you, though it's only a "Home Theater in a Box".CampbellzSoup wrote:Invest in surround arrow before I got my set I had a start one on amazon all in one for like 250 SO SO SO worth it.
The Playstation Store has 1080p movies(probably upscaled), but makes up for that by compromising the sudio, which is AAC 2 channel only.2099net wrote:
As for movie digital downloads - a HD movie with proper uncompressed, high quality sound can be upwards of 25GB. An music album is less than a third of a single GB - individual tracks coming to less than 10MB. There's no comparison. Movies which are downloadable now in HD (such as on XBox Live) aren't full HD (being only 720p) and only have bog-standard DD 5.1 soundtracks. People will not be downloading HD movies en mass for a long, long time. I'd bust my monthly download limit simply by downloading a single 25GB movie as it stands at the moment.
Last edited by ajmrowland on Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DarthPrime
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I'm starting to believe that Blu-ray has a chance to overtake DVD eventually. I still don't see it anytime soon, but in several years. Blu-ray players will play DVDs, and stand alone prices are going down. When Blu-ray players hit $50 (and they will eventually), why bother even making a DVD player. If you still don't have a HDTV, you can still watch the Blu-ray on your new player and still play all your DVDs. Its going to be a lot easier switch than VHS to DVD. Right now its still a premium product, but if prices fall DVD will be pushed away.
Not only will player prices have to continue dropping, but disc prices will need to come down as well.
With the recent Time Warner bandwidth cap news (its not happening now because of media/consumer complaints), and other ISPs capping bandwidth it only postpones the move to digital. Movies are going to be a lot harder to go digital than music was. The files are a lot bigger, and the more ISPs clamp down on bandwidth restrictions the less chance it has to become a reality. Plus you have to figure there are still a lot of people that can't get fast enough speeds to stream HD content, and some still can't get anything but a dial up connection.
I feel like I've done a complete 180 on Blu-ray in the last month. In my opinion I can't deny it anymore. It will replace DVD someday.
Not only will player prices have to continue dropping, but disc prices will need to come down as well.
With the recent Time Warner bandwidth cap news (its not happening now because of media/consumer complaints), and other ISPs capping bandwidth it only postpones the move to digital. Movies are going to be a lot harder to go digital than music was. The files are a lot bigger, and the more ISPs clamp down on bandwidth restrictions the less chance it has to become a reality. Plus you have to figure there are still a lot of people that can't get fast enough speeds to stream HD content, and some still can't get anything but a dial up connection.
I feel like I've done a complete 180 on Blu-ray in the last month. In my opinion I can't deny it anymore. It will replace DVD someday.
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drfsupercenter
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Me too! I don't dislike the concept of a digital copy, but I wish they had it instead where the was a code, and you could just type it in iTunes or whatever and download it without paying extra. (Warner Bros does this now, but you still have to pay $2, which is $2 more than I'll ever pay for a DRM'ed and lossy version of a movie I already own)I don't really care about the DVD, but I do like it because it makes the purchase more valuable and they are WAY better then the STUPID digital copies Mad I HATE that the discs are useless after you use them.
ALSO, (off topic, i know) WHY THE H3LL do people need to watch a movie on their phones or i pods with 3" screens? I never understood that.
I do like watching movies on my Zune, but that's just for if I'm on a bus or something, not everyone carries around DVD players. But what SERIOUSLY annoys me to no end is their marketing now - They market these "two disc extended versions", and the second disc is ONLY a digital copy. FOR FRICK'S SAKE, if you can fit all the features on one disc, WHY NOT DO IT?!!!! I'd gladly just buy that first disc off someone who used the Digital Copy already... I just cannot tolerate them forcing us to pay extra for the Digital Copy nonsense just to get bonus features. Ugh.
As far as digital downloading goes - I'm all for it, but only on a few conditions.
One, they have to provide a choice of qualities, whether it's 480p and 1080p (I know Xbox Live Marketplace has rentals at 480 and 720, though 720 costs more)
Two, they have to have closed captions/subtitles/alternate audio languages, no slacking and just putting English audio with nothing else
Three, they have to be the same or better quality than the DVD counterpart. I'm not paying for something that I can get in physical form if it's not as good
Four, no DRM. Ever.
But that's just my take on it. I know some people who like the Netflix free downloads to their TV, it's just all a matter of preference and ease of use. My ISP does not have bandwidth caps and likely never will, so it's practical to me. Though there's just something about having a disc on your shelf that's better than having your movie on a hard drive somewhere, subject to deletion, corruption, whatever the case may be...
Howard Ashman:
He gave a mermaid her voice, a beast his soul, and Arabs something to complain about
Arabian Nights (Unedited)
Savages (Uncensored)
If it ain't OTV, it ain't worth anything!
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The_Iceflash
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It's not ignored just seen as irrelevant. Also your post on the previous page don't convince me one bit that justified there needing to be a new format this soon after DVD took the lead.2099net wrote:Marky, and everyone else, you keep ignoring the fact Blu-ray has a higher market penetration NOW than DVD did in it's equivalent time period, despite the fact Blu-ray was locked in a "format war" with HD DVD for the first 2/3rds of its life cycle - not something DVD had to contend with.
@DarthPrime: It's not switching that's an issue with me but a re-buying one. Somehow now DVD's quality is seen as crap and seeing as I just got the majority of my Disney DVD's last summer (minus Disney Treasures which I have been getting for years) and I don't plan on re-buying them. I love them and the picture and sound quality on those Disney DVDs are amazing. I don't like how I'm supposed to think that DVD is subpar in anyway. My DVDs have great quality footage and sound. There's nothing subpar about them.
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KubrickFan
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Some dvds are definitely subpar, but it all depends on how it's put on the disc. And they were learning how to do it as time went by as well, my copy of the SE of A Bug's Life from 2000 looks like garbage. Sure, a new dvd would improve that, but the difference between the old dvd and the bits I saw of the new HD version were staggering.The_Iceflash wrote:It's not ignored just seen as irrelevant. Also your post on the previous page don't convince me one bit that justified there needing to be a new format this soon after DVD took the lead.
@DarthPrime: It's not switching that's an issue with me but a re-buying one. Somehow now DVD's quality is seen as crap and seeing as I just got the majority of my Disney DVD's last summer (minus Disney Treasures which I have been getting for years) and I don't plan on re-buying them. I love them and the picture and sound quality on those Disney DVDs are amazing. I don't like how I'm supposed to think that DVD is subpar in anyway. My DVDs have great quality footage and sound. There's nothing subpar about them.
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The_Iceflash
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I found absolutely nothing wrong with 2000 DVD of A Bug's Life. I have it and I find the picture to be stunning. I put it in to see if I can see what others said about it. (It may have been you i don't remember) and I couldn't see it. I'll agree that there are DVDs that definitely are subpar.KubrickFan wrote:Some dvds are definitely subpar, but it all depends on how it's put on the disc. And they were learning how to do it as time went by as well, my copy of the SE of A Bug's Life from 2000 looks like garbage. Sure, a new dvd would improve that, but the difference between the old dvd and the bits I saw of the new HD version were staggering.The_Iceflash wrote:It's not ignored just seen as irrelevant. Also your post on the previous page don't convince me one bit that justified there needing to be a new format this soon after DVD took the lead.
@DarthPrime: It's not switching that's an issue with me but a re-buying one. Somehow now DVD's quality is seen as crap and seeing as I just got the majority of my Disney DVD's last summer (minus Disney Treasures which I have been getting for years) and I don't plan on re-buying them. I love them and the picture and sound quality on those Disney DVDs are amazing. I don't like how I'm supposed to think that DVD is subpar in anyway. My DVDs have great quality footage and sound. There's nothing subpar about them.
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DarthPrime
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I have no plans to re-buy anything. If its a new release that I don't already have I'll probably get the Blu-ray. Older catalog titles I already have on DVD are fine with me. That's one great thing about Blu-ray players. They play DVDs, and you don't have to upgrade your titles to Blu-ray if you don't want too.The_Iceflash wrote:@DarthPrime: It's not switching that's an issue with me but a re-buying one. Somehow now DVD's quality is seen as crap and seeing as I just got the majority of my Disney DVD's last summer (minus Disney Treasures which I have been getting for years) and I don't plan on re-buying them. I love them and the picture and sound quality on those Disney DVDs are amazing. I don't like how I'm supposed to think that DVD is subpar in anyway. My DVDs have great quality footage and sound. There's nothing subpar about them.
Even when I get a Blu-ray player I'll probably still buy a lot of DVDs. Even with the better picture and sound of Blu-ray it will be hard to stop buying all the $3 to $5 catalog titles that constantly seem to pop up in random places (Big Lots, Grocery Stores, etc...).
Anyway the only DVDs I might upgrade are ones that do not have an anamorphic transfer, or were not presented in their original aspect ratio.
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ajmrowland
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It's quite pixelated due to compression and fitting two versions on the same disc. Definitely below Pixar's standard. You must have a smaller tv than drf and myself, but even just looking at it on the computer as well another Pixar film the same way should tell you.The_Iceflash wrote:I found absolutely nothing wrong with 2000 DVD of A Bug's Life. I have it and I find the picture to be stunning. I put it in to see if I can see what others said about it. (It may have been you i don't remember) and I couldn't see it. I'll agree that there are DVDs that definitely are subpar.KubrickFan wrote: Some dvds are definitely subpar, but it all depends on how it's put on the disc. And they were learning how to do it as time went by as well, my copy of the SE of A Bug's Life from 2000 looks like garbage. Sure, a new dvd would improve that, but the difference between the old dvd and the bits I saw of the new HD version were staggering.
I do not think that DVD is crap. I keep many of my discs, and have still not replaced any(price has to come down), and until I do, I might rent them through netflix occasionally, but not often. Even with some of the best DVDs, their blu-rays look just a bit better. That means more color, as well as sharpness.
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drfsupercenter
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Me too. But most DVDs are anamorphic somewhere or another, it just might involve importing, or for some movies like The Rock, getting the Criterion Collection set.Anyway the only DVDs I might upgrade are ones that do not have an anamorphic transfer, or were not presented in their original aspect ratio.
On that note, anyone else think it's a bunch of BS when the studio said the reason they can't release Armageddon on Blu-Ray is because they lost the "anamorphic version" (Another story said that they lost it in that fire last year)
I'm quite certain Armageddon has aired on HDTV, and that means there's an HD version. I think it's just petty excuses. For now, I'm waiting on the region 2 UK version, as that one IS anamorphic (and further proves they didn't "lose" the anamorphic version...)
Howard Ashman:
He gave a mermaid her voice, a beast his soul, and Arabs something to complain about
Arabian Nights (Unedited)
Savages (Uncensored)
If it ain't OTV, it ain't worth anything!
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DarthPrime
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The Armageddon thing is odd. Is the version airing on HDTV an actual HD broadcast, or upscaled to HD? I know sometimes, some channels will do this.drfsupercenter wrote:Me too. But most DVDs are anamorphic somewhere or another, it just might involve importing, or for some movies like The Rock, getting the Criterion Collection set.Anyway the only DVDs I might upgrade are ones that do not have an anamorphic transfer, or were not presented in their original aspect ratio.
On that note, anyone else think it's a bunch of BS when the studio said the reason they can't release Armageddon on Blu-Ray is because they lost the "anamorphic version" (Another story said that they lost it in that fire last year)
I'm quite certain Armageddon has aired on HDTV, and that means there's an HD version. I think it's just petty excuses. For now, I'm waiting on the region 2 UK version, as that one IS anamorphic (and further proves they didn't "lose" the anamorphic version...)
I found absolutely nothing wrong with 2000 DVD of A Bug's Life. I have it and I find the picture to be stunning. I put it in to see if I can see what others said about it. (It may have been you i don't remember) and I couldn't see it. I'll agree that there are DVDs that definitely are subpar.
Well, there are several clips from A Bug's Life in Leslie Iwerks' The Pixar Story, included on the Blu-Ray for Wall-E...several older Pixar films have clips remastered for Blu-Ray, and the Bug's Life clips make the DVD look like a faded VHS tape.
That's the issue here -- yes, people were happy with the DVD of a Bug's Life eight years ago. But no one who sees the eye-popping A Bug's Life Blu-Ray disc in HD today are ever going to want to play that DVD again, except for unported bonus features. The Enchanted Blu-Ray has multiple clips from various Disney films included in the "D-Files" game. Beauty and the Beast is glorious. Quite mind-blowing actually, compared to the old 1992 videotape and subsequent laserdisc and DVD.
The problem is that you're happy with what you have -- when you don't know what you're missing.
Well, there are several clips from A Bug's Life in Leslie Iwerks' The Pixar Story, included on the Blu-Ray for Wall-E...several older Pixar films have clips remastered for Blu-Ray, and the Bug's Life clips make the DVD look like a faded VHS tape.
That's the issue here -- yes, people were happy with the DVD of a Bug's Life eight years ago. But no one who sees the eye-popping A Bug's Life Blu-Ray disc in HD today are ever going to want to play that DVD again, except for unported bonus features. The Enchanted Blu-Ray has multiple clips from various Disney films included in the "D-Files" game. Beauty and the Beast is glorious. Quite mind-blowing actually, compared to the old 1992 videotape and subsequent laserdisc and DVD.
The problem is that you're happy with what you have -- when you don't know what you're missing.
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CampbellzSoup
