Savages: Original Version

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:06 pm

I wasn't sure if there was a thread on this or not, but I thought I'd start one.

Has anyone heard the original version of Savages from Pocahontas? It was actually edited BEFORE it hit theaters (unlike Arabian Nights), but it was on the OST. My friend Mollyzkoubou reverse-edited it, take a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfolaGoO9Is&fmt=18

I kinda like it myself, it's catchy. I mean, even with it edited, it's still incredibly racist. And really, the point of the song is to show how much the races despised each other, right? So I don't see anything wrong with it.

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 pm

I agree that the tone of the song doesn't change with the lyric alteration (which I think is for the worse--the original lyrics make the moment seem much more serious/dangerous). Especially considering they were going for racial insensitivity. Strangest edit ever.

Will Barks · Post by **Will Barks** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:25 pm

Could anyone tell me which lines were changes, since I know the soundtrack version by heart and don't have the film version in my mind.

Actually, I don't see anyhing bad in this song which should represent the narrow headed view of a greedy European (and later of plausibly fearful natives).

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:26 pm

"Here's what you get when races are diverse" vs. "Their whole disgusting race is like a curse"

...or something like that. This is just my faulty memory.

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:56 pm

^Yeah, the new edit of that lyric sounds more preachy than realistic, but I never thought of it as being so.

Elladorine · Post by **Elladorine** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:55 pm

SpringHeelJack wrote:"Here's what you get when races are diverse" vs. "Their whole disgusting race is like a curse"

...or something like that. This is just my faulty memory.

That's right. They also changed the line . . .

"Dirty redskin devils" to
"Dirty shrieking devils"

The edits never really made sense to me either.

Disneykid · Post by **Disneykid** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:59 pm

Also, they changed Ben's line towards the end from "Let's go kill a few, men!" to "Let's get a few, men!" That part makes me wonder if the edits were done before animation even started, because that's NOT Billy Connolly saying the "kill" line in the original version even though it's supposed to be him speaking.

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:04 pm

Actually, it looks like the line was changed AFTER the animation was done.

If you watch where he says "Their whole disgusting race is like a curse", his lips match up very clearly. Then watch the VHS/DVD version, "Here's what you get when races are diverse"... it just seems a little... off to me. Because of how the line is said in the edited version (timing wise). Shame on Disney, I thought they were above silly errors like that!

But yeah. To put them all in one place, the three lines changed were:

"Their whole disgusting race is like a curse" became "Here's what you get when [the] races are diverse"
"Dirty redskin devils" became "Dirty shrieking devils"
"Let's go kill a few, men!" became "Let's go get a few, men!"

I dunno, seems a bit kiddish to me. I like the "dirty" one better, as I've said already.

--EDIT--

And is it just me, or does it sound like a skip after "get"? In the VHS/DVD version, when he says "let's go get a few"... there's an unnatural pause there. Weird.

Trumpet Joe · Post by **Trumpet Joe** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:53 pm

I'm surprised that no one had a problem with "Their skin's a filthy red...".

And is it just me, or does Kekata sound like Tigger when he sings? Yes, I know it's Jim Cummings doing the singing voice, but it always cracks me up.

BelleGirl · Post by **BelleGirl** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:15 am

I have the original lyrics on CD. I'm not sure it's on my VHS-tape, but I believe it is.

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:27 am

I never understood why they ever changed this song. This song was showing how Radcliffe and the men were so wrong. The song was not meant to insult the Native Americans, but to illustrate how ignorant they were. I mean, they kept all the comments against the whites....pale faced, milky hide, etc.

I always felt the song should have remained as originally written. I mean either way it works, but I never understood why they changed it

a-net-fan · Post by **a-net-fan** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:42 am

Siren wrote:I never understood why they ever changed this song. This song was showing how Radcliffe and the men were so wrong. The song was not meant to insult the Native Americans, but to illustrate how ignorant they were. I mean, they kept all the comments against the whites....pale faced, milky hide, etc.

I always felt the song should have remained as originally written. I mean either way it works, but I never understood why they changed it

Exactly....I got the soundtrack before the movie even came out and thats how I understood the lyrics as well! I wonder what would happen if a bunch of us light skined humans threw a fit over the comments directed at us?? I prefer "This is what we feared....these caucasian men are deamons" and "Beneath their milky Ivory baby soft skin theirs emptiness inside".

bluemoon86 · Post by **bluemoon86** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:28 am

It's a minor lyric change. It's not like it affects the movie in any way. What the point in complaining? It's not like their going to suddenly recall all DVD and VHS copies of the movie and replace them with ones that have the other lyric.

BelleGirl · Post by **BelleGirl** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:14 am

bluemoon86 wrote:It's a minor lyric change. It's not like it affects the movie in any way. What the point in complaining? It's not like their going to suddenly recall all DVD and VHS copies of the movie and replace them with ones that have the other lyric.

Yes. But doesn't that make the change even more pointless? Making some racists lyrics a 'little less' racist, why bother?

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:14 pm

Eh, the change doesn't really affect me either way. It's not like I find one to be incredibly powerful and t'other lacking. I never really cared much for the song in the first place. It's just one of those "best to err on the side of caution" things that happens.

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:08 pm

It's a minor lyric change. It's not like it affects the movie in any way. What the point in complaining? It's not like their going to suddenly recall all DVD and VHS copies of the movie and replace them with ones that have the other lyric.

We're not complaining. I was just merely pointing out yet another lyric change Disney has done, and was curious how many people knew about or heard it before.

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:09 am

Also, they changed Ben's line towards the end from "Let's go kill a few, men!" to "Let's get a few, men!" That part makes me wonder if the edits were done before animation even started, because that's NOT Billy Connolly saying the "kill" line in the original version even though it's supposed to be him speaking.

Well, I just got the actual soundtrack CD from the library today, and looking at the lyrics booklet it actually says "Ben: Let's go kill a few, men!"

So they did actually mean for Ben to say that line. Not sure what's up with the voice acting - but I can confirm it wasn't supposed to be a different character.

Plus, if you think about it... they changed it after pre-screening it to test audiences and getting bad feedback... and it would have to have been animated (or at least a WIP like Beauty and the Beast) for that to happen.

pinkrenata · Post by **pinkrenata** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:54 am

That's modern society. Even when you are insulting someone in an offensive way, you still need to be as PC as possible!

I always found the change from "redskin" to "shrieking" a little more offensive. Their skin is a reddish color, that's just the way they were born, right? But adding the fact that they run around and shriek? Now you're just implying they're a bunch of wild maniacs. How rude! I demand a rewite!

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Savages: Original Version

Savages: Original Version