Is Disney Done with DVD? (The Never Ending Blu-Ray Debate)

All topics relating to Disney-branded content.
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drfsupercenter
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Post by drfsupercenter »

Small review from the news editor of Blu-Ray.com:
Of course, that guy's from Blu-Ray.com. It's not like his opinion is biased, or anything... :roll:
My Toshiba 47HL167(model no.) makes my Blu-rays look Gorgeous. There's no way You can watch it on that, and say you didn't notice the difference.
And didn't you just say a couple pages ago that you didn't notice much of a difference? Not to pick on you or anything, I'm just pointing that out.
And I think *all* TVs make Blu-Ray look good, it's just how they handle upscaled material. Obviously upscaling with just the TV is a no-no, you need a good upscaling player for that (PS3/whatever)
Sleeping Beauty made a believer out of me...with Blu Ray simply amazing dude, I was floord, and the sound was amazing as well. I watched it FOUR times, and I HATED Sleeping Beauty prior to this

Plus dude it comes with the DVD too, on Amazon it's only what 6 more dollars?
Well Sleeping Beauty was kinda bizarre. Remember those threads about how the DVD and Blu-Ray have slightly different colors? I have a feeling Disney did that intentionally to convert people like you. WB no doubt did too for The Dark Knight (in terms of quality). I'm sure Pinocchio will look equally as good on Blu-Ray, but I'm kinda concerned when they start skimping on DVDs. I think the Pinocchio DVD looks good though, unlike Sleeping Beauty.
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Post by DarthPrime »

CampbellzSoup wrote:
buffalobill wrote:Good posts DarthPrime & DavidS. I have a 50" hdtv but I still am extremely happy with my sd dvds using a Toshiba hd dvd player to upconvert them. I will go blu ray when I absolutely have to & not a day before. Dvd to vhs was night & day. Dvd & blu ray is not that big of a difference to me.
...yet you purchased an HD DVD player??
HD DVD players were cheaper than Blu-rays, and they are also known for being excellent upconverters. Even now if you look you can find HD DVD players cheaper than a DVD upconverting player (often with HD DVDs). Its a good alternative to some of the upconverting players on the market even if you never play a HD DVD disc. The Venturer player (same as the Toshiba HD A3, and can be upgraded with the Toshiba HD A3 firmware) was sold a few months ago on Buy.com for $50 new with 2 movies and free shipping.

Oppo makes great DVD players overall. They also have a Blu-ray player coming to the market too. Very interested in seeing how this does, and if it ports over all the benefits their DVD players have.
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Post by Beast »

David S. wrote:
CampbellzSoup wrote:The Blu Ray comes with a DVD so I don't understand what they aren't getting a chance to review?
Disc 2 of the DVD, which does NOT come with the BD.

(Sorry for repeating myself again, just answering the question) :)
Yes. But again, you don't need to read a DVD specific review to know what the extras are.
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Post by ajmrowland »

drfsupercenter wrote:
My Toshiba 47HL167(model no.) makes my Blu-rays look Gorgeous. There's no way You can watch it on that, and say you didn't notice the difference.
And didn't you just say a couple pages ago that you didn't notice much of a difference? Not to pick on you or anything, I'm just pointing that out.
And I think *all* TVs make Blu-Ray look good, it's just how they handle upscaled material. Obviously upscaling with just the TV is a no-no, you need a good upscaling player for that (PS3/whatever)
I didn't say that I didn't notice a difference. I do, even from the best of DVDs-the best of Blu-ray discs.

And your right. Generally, content is produced on one system, so it ideally would look about the same on all Tvs, with resolution being the only major difference.
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Post by DarthPrime »

I'm not sure if it was done on purpose, but something was seriously wrong with the transfer on The Dark Knight DVD. I remember seeing screenshots of it before it was released and then actually watching it. Bad transfer overall, yet the Blu-ray transfer was great.
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Post by David S. »

Beast wrote:
David S. wrote: Disc 2 of the DVD, which does NOT come with the BD.

(Sorry for repeating myself again, just answering the question) :)
Yes. But again, you don't need to read a DVD specific review to know what the extras are.
Well maybe I'm interested in reading DVD reviews written by some reviewers who are good reviewers I enjoy reading, but don't necessarily have BD players.
Last edited by David S. on Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ajmrowland »

DarthPrime wrote:I'm not sure if it was done on purpose, but something was seriously wrong with the transfer on The Dark Knight DVD. I remember seeing screenshots of it before it was released and then actually watching it. Bad transfer overall, yet the Blu-ray transfer was great.
There are rumors that it's WB's way of pushing the format. That's where I draw the line.
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Post by DarthPrime »

ajmrowland wrote:
DarthPrime wrote:I'm not sure if it was done on purpose, but something was seriously wrong with the transfer on The Dark Knight DVD. I remember seeing screenshots of it before it was released and then actually watching it. Bad transfer overall, yet the Blu-ray transfer was great.
There are rumors that it's WB's way of pushing the format. That's where I draw the line.
If that's true then... :down: to WB.
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Post by gregmasciola »

drfsupercenter wrote:Honestly, the best way to see if it's worth getting the Blu-Ray or not is to just try both formats of the same movie.
That's what I like to do. I rent Blu-Rays through Netflix and keep a list where I rate the picture quality on a scale of 1 to 10 and write down how much I think the disc is worth.
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Post by JDCB1986 »

The argument of "Blu-Ray doesn't look that much better than DVD" is getting old. The point is, regardless if you think it looks better or not, Blu-Ray is the next step in home video. Blu-Ray sales are growing and DVD sales are shrinking. It may be a few more years still, but regardless if you like it or not, if you see a difference or not, if you hear a difference or not, Blu-Ray is what company's are pushing and eventually, they will dominate the home video market. And once they dominate the market, DVD will slowly and surely fade away, company's will stop producing them, stores will stop dedicating so much of their space to them and just like always happens when a new format takes over, they will fade away for the DVD 2.0 (Blu-Ray).
David S. wrote:Well maybe I'm interested in reading DVD reviews written by some reviewers who are good reviewers I enjoy reading, but don't necessarily have BD players.
You're ridiculous, you are just trying to come up with irritating posts now.
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Post by DarthPrime »

I can see and hear a difference, but don't see a complete switch to Blu-ray happening any time soon. Its still early in the game, and that was the point saying it wasn't a good move right now to only send out Blu-rays to reviewers. Maybe a few years from now if Blu-ray sales continue to rise, and DVD fall, but not in 2009.
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Post by KubrickFan »

drfsupercenter wrote:Small review from the news editor of Blu-Ray.com:

Of course, that guy's from Blu-Ray.com. It's not like his opinion is biased, or anything... :roll:


He's reviewing Blu-Ray's. He's not comparing them to dvd's, but to other Blu-Ray's. So how is that biased?
And didn't you just say a couple pages ago that you didn't notice much of a difference? Not to pick on you or anything, I'm just pointing that out.
And I think *all* TVs make Blu-Ray look good, it's just how they handle upscaled material. Obviously upscaling with just the TV is a no-no, you need a good upscaling player for that (PS3/whatever)
If you think all TVs make Blu-Ray look good, you need another pair of glasses, I think. Upscaling with my player (Sony BDP-S350) looks decent. Recent titles look good, older titles tend to look like crap. They're nowhere near the quality of Blu-Ray.
Well Sleeping Beauty was kinda bizarre. Remember those threads about how the DVD and Blu-Ray have slightly different colors? I have a feeling Disney did that intentionally to convert people like you. WB no doubt did too for The Dark Knight (in terms of quality). I'm sure Pinocchio will look equally as good on Blu-Ray, but I'm kinda concerned when they start skimping on DVDs. I think the Pinocchio DVD looks good though, unlike Sleeping Beauty.
Maybe the different colors were because dvd has a limited color range compared to blu? Or maybe a different team worked on the dvd than the one on blu? Fact is, there can be tons of reasons, and some evil scheme of them pushing everybody to blu-ray with some wrong colors seems highly unlikely to me.
And The Dark Knight Blu-Ray got a lot of criticisms as well. It doesn't even look that good. It has edge enhancement, and some DNR in it. They used the IMAX print for the entire movie, so the regular 35mm anamorphic film was processed to hold up a bit better on a giant IMAX screen. Too bad they used it for the Blu-Ray.
Last edited by KubrickFan on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by drfsupercenter »

There are rumors that it's WB's way of pushing the format. That's where I draw the line.
That's why I bring it up - that's the kind of "ramming Blu-Ray down people's throats" that I can't stand.
The point is, regardless if you think it looks better or not, Blu-Ray is the next step in home video. Blu-Ray sales are growing and DVD sales are shrinking. It may be a few more years still, but regardless if you like it or not, if you see a difference or not, if you hear a difference or not, Blu-Ray is what company's are pushing and eventually, they will dominate the home video market. And once they dominate the market, DVD will slowly and surely fade away, company's will stop producing them, stores will stop dedicating so much of their space to them and just like always happens when a new format takes over, they will fade away for the DVD 2.0 (Blu-Ray).
It may become a new standard for *new* movies, but I doubt that many older titles will be put on Blu-Ray. For the simple reason that they don't need to be. They'll look old and whatever either way. Plus, it costs the studios more that way. I mean all those small DVDs that you can get through promotions, or the ones you can buy at tourist shops... even smaller independent movies. Because DVDs are so easy to make, there are tons more DVDs that have come out than there were VHS. (Also because it's quicker to make one, since it's digital)

But because the general public is stupid and believes all these marketing gimmicks, they'll probably be like those forum members here, whining and complaining that their favorite movie wasn't put on Blu-Ray yet.
If you think all TVs make Blu-Ray look good, you need another pair of glasses, I think. Upscaling with my player (Sony BDP-S350) looks decent. Recent titles look good, older titles tend to look like crap. They're nowhere near the quality of Blu-Ray.
I said all TVs make actual Blu-Rays look good. Not upscaled DVDs. As long as they support 1080p, they should look good everywhere. The colors may be different depending on how your TV is set up, but that's a different story. (As THOSE are usually adjustable)
Maybe the different colors were because dvd has a limited color range compared to blu? Or maybe a different team worked on the dvd than the one on blu? Fact is, there can be tons of reasons, and some evil scheme of them pushing everybody to blu-ray with some wrong colors seems highly unlikely to me.
Why would a different team work on each? It's the same movie! It's supposed to be the same in both formats!
And I wasn't aware of any color limitations to the DVD format. Like I said, mpeg-2 Blu-Rays use the exact same format DVDs use, just at a higher bitrate. And I don't think AVC is that much different. One of these days I'll make a 480p copy of Sleeping Beauty and see what happens.
And The Dark Knight Blu-Ray got a lot of criticisms as well. It doesn't even look that good. It has edge enhancement, and some DNR in it. They used the IMAX print for the entire movie, so the regular 35mm anamorphic film was processed to hold up a bit better on a giant IMAX screen. Too bad they used it for the Blu-Ray.
I've also heard a lot of good reviews about it too, though. And it no doubt looks better than the DVD... because that DVD wasn't made very well. But yes, I'm annoyed that they used the IMAX print as well... it was awesome in a real IMAX but seeing as how the average person doesn't have an IMAX screen in their home, I don't see the point. If it were up to me, you could choose between watching the full movie in 2.35:1 (like the DVD and standard movie theaters), the way it is now, or just the IMAX scenes in their correct ratio of 1.44:1 (as it is on the second disc of the DVD release)
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Post by Rudy Matt »

But yes, I'm annoyed that they used the IMAX print as well... it was awesome in a real IMAX but seeing as how the average person doesn't have an IMAX screen in their home, I don't see the point.

It's awesome at home on Blu-Ray as well, but for once we seemingly agree -- there should have been a choice for aspect ratios, and I have to roll my eyes at the severe lack of quality bonus features on the disc, recogniziing Warner Bros. is holding these (and the lack of the 2.35:1 version) for a future double dip.

That being said, The Dark Knight is a beautiful disc, and those like me who only saw the film in IMAX are happy to have the original IMAX experience replicated somehwhat at home.
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Post by David S. »

JDCB1986 wrote:
David S. wrote:Well maybe I'm interested in reading DVD reviews written by some reviewers who are good reviewers I enjoy reading, but don't necessarily have BD players.
You're ridiculous, you are just trying to come up with irritating posts now.
WTF?

You and some of the more overzealous BD fanboys are the ridiculous one, because you guys can't tolerate hearing anyone's opinion that is happy with DVD. (I am NOT talking about everyone here who supports BD, just the type of mentality that would, for example, make ridiculous personal attacks against Johanna on her site because she isn't into BD and can't review Pinocchio.)

And for your information, I consider the reviewers at UD among my favorite reviewers and I am not sure if they all have BD players. This new policy of not sending out DVDs to review would make it more difficult for them to have access to the products I enjoy reading reviews about.

Now, if you find that simple statement "irritating", you have a problem with reading other people's opinions that are different then your own.
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Post by KubrickFan »

drfsupercenter wrote:
It may become a new standard for *new* movies, but I doubt that many older titles will be put on Blu-Ray. For the simple reason that they don't need to be. They'll look old and whatever either way. Plus, it costs the studios more that way. I mean all those small DVDs that you can get through promotions, or the ones you can buy at tourist shops... even smaller independent movies. Because DVDs are so easy to make, there are tons more DVDs that have come out than there were VHS. (Also because it's quicker to make one, since it's digital)

But because the general public is stupid and believes all these marketing gimmicks, they'll probably be like those forum members here, whining and complaining that their favorite movie wasn't put on Blu-Ray yet.
Have you seen Casablanca? How The West Was Won? Those are more than sixty and forty years old, and look absolutely gorgeous.
Why would a different team work on each? It's the same movie! It's supposed to be the same in both formats!
And I wasn't aware of any color limitations to the DVD format. Like I said, mpeg-2 Blu-Rays use the exact same format DVDs use, just at a higher bitrate. And I don't think AVC is that much different. One of these days I'll make a 480p copy of Sleeping Beauty and see what happens.
It has to be downconverted one extra time for the dvd. So it could be that colors turn out differently. Seems unlikely, but still more likely than the evil scheme I mentioned before.
I've also heard a lot of good reviews about it too, though. And it no doubt looks better than the DVD... because that DVD wasn't made very well. But yes, I'm annoyed that they used the IMAX print as well... it was awesome in a real IMAX but seeing as how the average person doesn't have an IMAX screen in their home, I don't see the point. If it were up to me, you could choose between watching the full movie in 2.35:1 (like the DVD and standard movie theaters), the way it is now, or just the IMAX scenes in their correct ratio of 1.44:1 (as it is on the second disc of the DVD release)
Well, it's generally regarded as a failed opportunity by Warner, so what does that mean? Warner isn't really interested by the new format after all?
Look at The French Connection, which got a new make-over by William Friedkin. It looks awful on Blu. So, does Fox really want the general public to stay with dvd, which does have the original release?
And about the IMAX thing, I wasn't talking at all about the changing aspect ratio (which is how the director wanted it), but about the difference in quality. They should've used the IMAX print for those scenes, and the 35mm anamorphic print for the scenes shot in anamorphic.
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Post by Beast »

KubrickFan wrote:Have you seen Casablanca? How The West Was Won? Those are more than sixty and forty years old, and look absolutely gorgeous.
The original Day The Earth Stood Still is amazing as well. Simply stunning.
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Post by drfsupercenter »

Have you seen Casablanca? How The West Was Won? Those are more than sixty and forty years old, and look absolutely gorgeous.
I have not seen them on Blu-Ray, but I have seen Casablanca on DVD. (For the parts I wasn't sleeping, at least... it may be a classic but it bored the crap out of me! :lol: )
And the DVD looked gorgeous too. Then again, I watched it in my film class at school... my teacher used a projector on a screen probably the size of your average HDTV (I didn't measure it, but it's probably like a 46 or 50" set)
And you could stand right up close and it had no pixelation. That's one reason why I love projectors - since they're inherently analog, there's no real "resolution" that you have to have. As long as your material looks GOOD (not incredibly grainy, whatever), it'll look good on the screen you project it to if it's focused right.
there should have been a choice for aspect ratios, and I have to roll my eyes at the severe lack of quality bonus features on the disc, recogniziing Warner Bros. is holding these (and the lack of the 2.35:1 version) for a future double dip.

That being said, The Dark Knight is a beautiful disc, and those like me who only saw the film in IMAX are happy to have the original IMAX experience replicated somehwhat at home.


I did see it in the IMAX - but really, what I want to do is take those 1.44:1 extras from the DVD, and combine them with the 2.35:1 scenes, and make a "true" IMAX version. Granted, my 50" TV or 19" computer monitor do not come close to an IMAX.

And I'm sure WB will double-dip it, but who knows if it'll be the same transfer or not? If it's really what the director wanted, why would they change it? Plus, they have 3 HD releases of Batman Begins (the HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and the collector's edition Blu-Ray), and as far as I know, all three have the same identical master.

It has to be downconverted one extra time for the dvd. So it could be that colors turn out differently. Seems unlikely, but still more likely than the evil scheme I mentioned before.


I realize that, but it also has to be downscaled for Blu-Ray as well. Especially with the older films that are restored, they usually scan them in the computer at a HUGE size. On an extra for The Wizard of Oz, I think they said it was some 4000 pixels across... that's more than TWICE what Blu-Ray uses! So the restorations are both future-proof, and better quality than any currently available format. It shouldn't be that hard to downscale to two different sizes consistently. (And like I've been saying, as soon as I get a Blu-Ray drive for my computer, or figure out how to rip BD ISOs using my PS3, I'll downscale it myself and see what happens. That should clear things up for good.)

Well, it's generally regarded as a failed opportunity by Warner, so what does that mean? Warner isn't really interested by the new format after all?
Look at The French Connection, which got a new make-over by William Friedkin. It looks awful on Blu. So, does Fox really want the general public to stay with dvd, which does have the original release?


I don't know what it says about Warner. But FOX is seriously skimping on their Blu-Rays, it's annoying. Not only do they only use the OTVs (Ordinarily a good thing, but I mean movies like Indepdence Day that have a special edition almost always seamlessly branched with the OTV), but they have very few, if ANY, bonus features. They seem to only use the extras from the single-disc DVD release, whereas FOX's 2-disc sets are actually good, having numerous extra features. Jeez, FOX, are you trying to make people NOT buy Blu-Ray? (Though as I said, I only buy their stuff on DVD anyway, so they didn't fool me)
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Post by Goliath »

David S. wrote:DVD isn't dying, but some people in the industry sure are trying to kill it!
You're right, and that's also one of the reasons I refuse to 'convert' to BlueRay (besides the obvious reasons about it being a marketing gimmick, of course). Sometimes I suspect new members like Beast and Rudy Matt of being employees of BlueRay, or getting paid for what they post in one way or another by the industry. Because this extreme kind of pushing the format by a regular consumer isn't healthy.
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Post by Goliath »

Beast wrote:
DarthPrime wrote:The main reasons are its too expensive and DVD is good enough.
Imagine if the world did that for everything.

Well, a horse is good enough. Who needs a car.

Well, wax cylinders are good enough. Who needs better.

Well, black and white is good enough. Who needs color.

Well, silent films are good enough. Who needs sound.

And so on, and so on.
That's a very dishonest argument, and it has been debunked already early on in this thread. The list you sum up consists of technical innovations; inventions that really made a huge difference in the world we live in. The minimal gain in picture quality between DVD and BlueRay is not, I repeat, not in any way comparable to anything you listed above. It doesn't deliver any earth-shocking differences in our way of life. I's basically a nice gimmick for the audio- and visual 'geeks'. But saying it's anything like the move from silent films to talkies, is ignorant.
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