The Lion King Discussion

[PeterPanfan]

Peter, obviously my favorite Disney film, pretty much disgusted me. How they could take one of their most famous films, and treat it like a DTV film, is inexcusable.

[Disney Duster]

Aladdin and Cinderella are Princess movie

Just because it has a princess in it doesn't mean that Aladdin is a Princess movie. Kind of like how you think just because a character's a princess doesn't mean she's an official Disney Princess.

Well, Disney markets it as a Princess movie, it's part of the Disney Princess line, to their consumer products department it's a princess movie. And if a princess movie is one where the princess is the star, Sleeping Beauty might not be one.

But I have wanted to say this to you for the longest time...

Your WTFing of Sprince's quote is, I think, frankly...wrong. Please...hear me out...

Sprince specifically said you don't have to be a princess, with a lower case "p", to be a Disney Princess, with capitals. And this is so very true. Pocahontas isn't one, though she could be called one, but Mulan is definately not one, they had princesses and China and she never was one. Sprince clearly tried to make it clear with the spelling that a Disney Princess doesn't have to be a princess, and even the franchise itself has said, though I'm paraphrasing, "You don't have to be a real princess/royalty to be a princess. A princess is someone who's kind, noble, and pure of heart. Every girl can be/is a princess" or any kind of crap that gets the same point across.

It's true, Disney should not do this, I don't like that they do it, but maybe it's not so bad saying you don't have to be of royal blood to be a princess, because little girls want badly to be princesses in a world where monarchies are dying or dead.

But it is Disney that should be WTFed, not Sprince.

[blackcauldron85]

That is a well-written post, DD.

[Escapay]

Just because it has a princess in it doesn't mean that Aladdin is a Princess movie. Kind of like how you think just because a character's a princess doesn't mean she's an official Disney Princess.

Well, Disney markets it as a Princess movie, it's part of the Disney Princess line, to their consumer products department it's a princess movie.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck...









...it could be a platypus.

(Though I don't know what a platypus sounds like. But it works with my argument, so I'm sticking with it.)

Aladdin is in that wonderful category of movies that fits in many genres. "Princess movie" is only one of the many, and IMO, not one of the main or important ones. The story is about Aladdin, but at the same time, is an ensemble piece. While Aladdin is the main character, the others are important supporting ones. Aurora may not be a "main character" in the traditional sense, but since she is the focus of the movie and everyone's actions are motivated by her well-being, that makes Sleeping Beauty more a Princess movie than Aladdin). Thus, I don't agree with any outright "Aladdin is a Princess movie" statements. Because it isn't.

Marketing and consumer products are all bull when it comes to the how and why the movie was made. Sure, today it seems like Aladdin is a Princess movie because the most merch we see from it is Jasmine, but that does not make it a Princess movie. It'd be like saying that Field of Dreams is only a baseball movie. Or that Titanic is only a chick flick.

Your WTFing of Sprince's quote is, I think, frankly...wrong. Please...hear me out...

Sprince specifically said you don't have to be a princess, with a lower case "p", to be a Disney Princess, with capitals. And this is so very true. Pocahontas isn't one, though she could be called one, but Mulan is definately not one, they had princesses and China and she never was one. Sprince clearly tried to make it clear with the spelling that a Disney Princess doesn't have to be a princess, and even the franchise itself has said, though I'm paraphrasing, "You don't have to be a real princess/royalty to be a princess. A princess is someone who's kind, noble, and pure of heart. Every girl can be/is a princess" or any kind of crap that gets the same point across.

It's true, Disney should not do this, I don't like that they do it, but maybe it's not so bad saying you don't have to be of royal blood to be a princess, because little girls want badly to be princesses in a world where monarchies are dying or dead.

But it is Disney that should be WTFed, not Sprince.

If I may borrow what I said in the Oliver & Company: 20th Anniversary Edition thread...

The point is, a WTF is just something that I find so incredibly...well, silly. Something that when you read it you can't believe the person actually said it. Initially it was almost always an "open mouth, insert foot" thing someone said (like Alan suggesting I fly to Fort Worth, Texas to go to a GameStop to buy Beauty and the Beast: Platinum Edition for $16). But over time it's just become a way for me to post something that someone said with the stigma of "They did *not* just say that!" It's not necessarily reflective of the person, but of the idea they're persenting.

With Sprince's WTF, it's attacking the general idea that many DP fans have: that you don't *have* to be a princess to be part of the line, but even so, some legitimate princesses are excluded from the line. I've got a lot against the DP merch line, so having the idea of "you don't have to be a real princess to be a Disney Princess" is utterly absurd in my opinion, especially since it's so hypocritical of people who believe it. It's not an attack on Sprince, just an attack on the idea.

There is a bias, I admit, to who I WIST versus who I WTF, as I tend to WIST people whose posts I agree with more than people whose posts I often find myself butting heads with. Likewise, WTF's usually stem from things I disagree with or find utterly outrageous, but is not always reflective of the poster.

It's pretty much a given that I'm almost always at odds with Sprince, but I have nothing against him personally, which is important when talking to people on the internet. Hate their ideas, but don't hate them as you don't really know them as well as you think you do. I'm sure there's many UDers here who don't like my anti-slipcover anti-DP and anti-TLK opinions.

albert

[Disney Duster]

OMGosh wow, thank you Ames! That really made me feel great! And it's extra great 'cause it's from you!

I guess this could have been saved if I had been in Oliver & Company's thread, but I'm still glad I got that out of my system.

Does Sprince know that you don't think what he said was WTF but more that it's a fact for Disney is WTF?

As for Aladdin, indeed it can be called a princess movie. It certainly gives the princess a story and goal all her own, even developing her more than Aurora! And of course Aladdin's actions often revolve around her. So Aladdin is a Princess movie if it is also an action movie...which, well, I wouldn't say it is. But it could be called a comedy, I'd certainly agree with that. But fantasy or fairy tale film is what I'm most comfortable with, it's just more comic and actiony than usual for that genre. Or it could be called a Prince movie but you know sometimes they put something in a category just because that's the closest it comes to, so Princess movie could be that category.

But "princess movie" shouldn't even be a category in my opinion. However, if the princess movie category only exists because of the product line, then Aladdin, as part of the line, would indeed be part of it.

Or maybe you should say that all the fairy tale films aside from Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast aren't princess movies, either.

[Ariel'sprince]

Just because it has a princess in it doesn't mean that Aladdin is a Princess movie. Kind of like how you think just because a character's a princess doesn't mean she's an official Disney Princess.

Well, Disney markets it as a Princess movie, it's part of the Disney Princess line, to their consumer products department it's a princess movie. And if a princess movie is one where the princess is the star, Sleeping Beauty might not be one.

But I have wanted to say this to you for the longest time...

Your WTFing of Sprince's quote is, I think, frankly...wrong. Please...hear me out...

Sprince specifically said you don't have to be a princess, with a lower case "p", to be a Disney Princess, with capitals. And this is so very true. Pocahontas isn't one, though she could be called one, but Mulan is definately not one, they had princesses and China and she never was one. Sprince clearly tried to make it clear with the spelling that a Disney Princess doesn't have to be a princess, and even the franchise itself has said, though I'm paraphrasing, "You don't have to be a real princess/royalty to be a princess. A princess is someone who's kind, noble, and pure of heart. Every girl can be/is a princess" or any kind of crap that gets the same point across.

It's true, Disney should not do this, I don't like that they do it, but maybe it's not so bad saying you don't have to be of royal blood to be a princess, because little girls want badly to be princesses in a world where monarchies are dying or dead.

But it is Disney that should be WTFed, not Sprince.

Thanks for wirting this,Disney Duster,and it's well-wirtten I tried to explain this many times.
And it's not the first time that I hear people saying that Aladdin isn't a Princess movie,Aurora is the star in Sleeping Beauty and Jasmine isn't but Aladdin is a Princess because it has a Princess in it,not every movie is a Princess movie and films like Alice In Wonderland or Atlantis aren't Princess movies.
And Peter Pan was weak? (I wanted to buy it when it was released but bought Cinderella PE insted).

[PeterPanfan]

Ariel'sprince, judging by your standards, Atlantis: The Lost Empire is just as much of a princess movie as Aladdin or Sleeping Beauty, since it has a Princess.

[Disney Duster]

Maybe the films part of the Disney Princess line should be called Disney Princess movies. But it's not even them who seemed to coin the term princess movie. There was that commercial where a little girl said "a princess movie, it's perfect", so I guess it's gotten into the mainstream now.

But Aladdin would still be a Disney Princess movie as it has a Disney Princess, and then so would Mulan, but I don't think she should be in the line anyway.

I wish people wouldn't call them princess movies. Just fairy tale films. But I think even in the general princess movie category, Aladdin can fit, in the eyes of those princess-crazed little girls. I'm sure Beauty and the Beast does.

If you tried explaining to some girl, "no, Aladdin is not a princess movie" when she thought it was because Jasmine's her favorite...well, I wouldn't try it!

[Ariel'sprince]

Ariel'sprince, judging by your standards, Atlantis: The Lost Empire is just as much of a princess movie as Aladdin or Sleeping Beauty, since it has a Princess.

No,it's not,Jasmine is a Princess and Kida isn't,and Kida isn't the star of Atlantis unlike Aurora.
Thought when people say Princess film they mean Sleeping Beauty,Cinderella and more.
Fairy Tales films doesn't sounds really good and it can also be films like Pinocchio insted of Enchanted and The Little Mermaid.
Anyway,Aladdin is a Princess movie.

[blackcauldron85]

But Kida is a princess...she's an Atlantean princess. Just like how Pocahontas is a Powhatan princess.

(I debated not getting into the whole princess argument, but I just wanted to say that!)

I think that if someone wants to call a film a "princess film", then let them- it's okay. It's not hurting anyone!

[akhenaten]

No,it's not,Jasmine is a Princess and Kida isn't

to quote prime minister sebastian...

"WOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT??????????"

[Ariel'sprince]

But Kida is a princess...she's an Atlantean princess. Just like how Pocahontas is a Powhatan princess.

(I debated not getting into the whole princess argument, but I just wanted to say that!)

I think that if someone wants to call a film a "princess film", then let them- it's okay. It's not hurting anyone!

Look,Kida is a real princess,but she's not a Disney Princess (Princess),there are 9 girls for now (And 2 or 3 girls will join soon) in the line and they"re Princesses,Disney Princesses.

[PeterPanfan]

Ariel'sprince, why must you always be so stubborn?

Just get over yourself. You add no point to the discussion, and just aggravate everyone with your thoughtless posts. Kida IS a princess. Jasmine IS a princess. They are BOTH princesses, no matter how much you dislike Kida. You act like the little girl Mike just referred to with your deliberance to agree with only yourself.

[blackcauldron85]

All the princess talk can be confusing, but I think what Ariel'sprince means (after reading his newest post) is that Kida isn't part of the Disney Princess collection, meaning the dolls and blankets and all that other merchandise. That is a true statement.

Just like how Mike (was it Mike? If not, I apologize) mentioned not too long ago about how Ariel'sprince differentiates between Disney princess and Disney Princess, the capital Princess being the merchandise collection, and the lowercase princess meaning the character is royalty.

[Ariel'sprince]

Ariel'sprince, why must you always be so stubborn?

Just get over yourself. You add no point to the discussion, and just aggravate everyone with your thoughtless posts. Kida IS a princess. Jasmine IS a princess. They are BOTH princesses, no matter how much you dislike Kida. You act like the little girl Mike just referred to with your deliberance to agree with only yourself.

Goodness,Kida IS NOT a DISNEY PRINCESS!.
I already said,she's a real princess,but she's not a Princess,she's not a Disney Princess,you"re the one who should get over yourself and listen to other already.
And thanks Amy,you also understand.

[akhenaten]

THIS FORUM SHOULD HAVE A STICKY THREAD ON THE OFFICIAL PRINCESSES, THIS WHOLE FEUDIN MAKES ME WANT MARTINS N THE COYS SO BAD.

KING YUL BRYNNER: " DISNEY PRINCES AND PRINCESSES!"

ONE BY ONE THEY MARCH..THE GRAND MUSIC PIECE RESERVED FOR KIDA.

[PeterPanfan]

Kida is a Disney Princess. She's a princess, and she's in a Disney film... I don't rely on the merchandise to explain these things to me, Ariel'sprince. That's fine if you spend your days looking up the latest Aurora and Ariel kitchenware, but I don't. I watch the films, and realize that these people are princesses, because it says they are in the film. The Disney Princesses merchandise only highlights the most popular princesses...it doesn't say that the others aren't. So, get a grip, and start actually reading what you type before you post it.

[blackcauldron85]

I don't like all this fighting!

Basically, for future reference, just look at how Ariel'sprince types the word:

If he writes Disney Princess, that means that he's referring to the merchandise collection.

If he writes Disney princess, that means that he's referring to the fact that the character is royalty.

[Ariel'sprince]

Kida is a Disney Princess. She's a princess, and she's in a Disney film... I don't rely on the merchandise to explain these things to me, Ariel'sprince. That's fine if you spend your days looking up the latest Aurora and Ariel kitchenware, but I don't. I watch the films, and realize that these people are princesses, because it says they are in the film. The Disney Princesses merchandise only highlights the most popular princesses...it doesn't say that the others aren't. So, get a grip, and start actually reading what you type before you post it.

Just because you don't count the line doesn't mean that you decide who is a Disney Princess or not,you don't decide anything and if you don't count the line then there are no Princesses,they"re not a group acorrding to you,it's a FACT that only those the Princesses are Princesses and it DOESN'T matter what you count or not and you can't fight on it just because you don't understand anything .
Kida is NOT a Disney Princess and it doesn't matter what you count.
If you only see the films then there's no Princess groups acorrding to you so whatever an I don't care what you think.

I don't like all this fighting!

Basically, for future reference, just look at how Ariel'sprince types the word:

If he writes Disney Princess, that means that he's referring to the merchandise collection.

If he writes Disney princess, that means that he's referring to the fact that the character is royalty.

Me neither but it's so happens that somone think that he's the Disney Consumer Prodcuts CEO.

[blackcauldron85]

Dan doesn't think that he's the CEO, he just means that just because a character isn't part of the Disney Princess collection (meaning the merchandise collection) doesn't mean that the character isn't a real princess (meaning a member of royalty).

Maybe we should just drop this argument...I like both of you and don't like the fighting.