Sleeping Beauty Confirmed for DVD AND BLU-RAY in 2008 !!!

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Re: Sleeping Blu-ray

Post by Escapay »

Kelvin backwards is Nivlek wrote:
Escapay backwards is Yapacse wrote:I'm still puzzled as to where Disney got the idea 2.55:1 for Sleeping Beauty when all evidence points to 2.20:1 (for 70mm) and 2.25:1 (for the original negatives). Perhaps the 2.55:1 is derived from the 2.25:1 negative, and could still be losing some % of information on the top and bottom, but not sides (as evident from the 2.35:1 35mm DVD caps)
Well, at HomeTheaterForum, David Boulet had this to say after going to Disney's special presentation:
David Boulet wrote:Oh yes, and that 2.55:1 aspect ratio you may have heard about... I received assurances that this aspect ratio is in fact the native aspect ratio of the original photographed negatives and was not achieved by cropping any picture content. For those of you wondering why I’m making a point of this, there’s a bit of controversy among Sleeping Beauty aficionados about this 2.55:1 choice for the Blu-ray Disc since the original theatrical aspect ratio was actually narrower given 70 mm and 35 mm projection at the time. Disney’s choice to go with 2.55:1 may be controversial with regard to original theatrical aspect ratio, but it’s not controversial with regard to the original filmed aspect ratio. Once we can get our hands on some real image captures to compare among the various incarnations we’ll confirm (our review of the Blu-ray Disc in the fall will try to clarify issues related to aspect ratio).
Thanks, Kelvin.

Anyway, I think/hope that I found an answer to the "Can Technirama really be 2.55:1?" conundrum.

Doing some quick searches online, I found an online table that showed the various widescreen processes there were, along with technical specifications for each. When it came to Technirama, while it's generally known/accepted that the 35mm film is shot horizontally through the camera, what's also important (and should have been factored in when I was trying to figure out what the hell was going on with 2.55:1) is the amount of the frame actually being used. I (stupidly) assumed that shooting the entire frame would always yield the standard 2.25:1 that, when transferred to 35mm and 70mm prints, would get the 2.35:1 and 2.20:1 ratios, respectively. But in actuality, the amount and dimensions of the frame area you use can get different types of aspect ratios.

Anyway, according to the table, these are the frame areas used in Technirama...

On 8-35A1.5H format:
1.496x0.992 will yield the 2.26:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives (this is the generally known one, though most often round it to 2.25:1)
1.480x0.915 will yield a 2.42:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives

On 4-35A2.0 format:
0.839x.0715 will yield a 2.35:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives
0.912x0.715 will yield the 2.55:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives

God, I hope I got all that right (where's deathie when I need him?)

If I did get it right, then the mystery is solved! Sleeping Beauty must have been shot with a frame area of 0.912x0.715 if it yields a 2.55:1 aspect ratio on the original camera negatives.
Mike backwards is Ekim wrote:Thanks for the aspect ratio info, Disneykid, I had a feeling Disney wouldn't let a title concentrating on the perfect, originally intended, collector's release of the film have a wrong ratio. I wonder what Escapay will think now. I hope he'll be pleased. It looks great!
The part of me that appreciates the backgrounds and animation is excited for the 2.55:1 (:D), but the theatrical purist in me is still a bit upset that we're not getting the 2.20:1 70mm aspect ratio (:(). It's a small consolation knowing that the 35mm print has already been released on VHS, laserdisc, and the 2003 DVD, but to the best of my knowledge, the 70mm version has yet to surface on any home video format. And given that 70mm is the more acceptable theatrical ratio (as it was the one predominantly used in its original release), it's a pity and a shame that we're still not getting it. Additional picture in the 2.55:1 is fine and all, but it's not representative of the original theatrical experience (which is what I'd rather have, hence, why I prefer matted widescreen for the 60s/70s films).

Still, if Disney wants to release the completely animated frame, that's their prerogative (and lord knows they're inconsistent with that regarding the 60s/70s titles!).
Ekim wrote:
Nivlek wrote: Supposedly it's Lowry Digital/DTS Digital Images, the same guys who did the restorations for all of the non-fab four Platinums (along with Alice in Wonderland).
Can I ask how you know? Though I guess we'll know for sure when we have it, right? Is there a way to find out now?
I checked the official site, and Sleeping Beauty is listed as one of the films they worked on. IIRC, the 2003 DVD restoration was done in-house by Disney, so having Lowry list Sleeping Beauty must mean it was for the 2008 DVD.

Albert

ETA:
I forgot that I bolded a part of what David Boulet said without actually addressing it, lol. Anyway, I bolded it because I think it's odd how they'd go out of their way to announce the rhyme and reason to Sleeping Beauty in 2.55:1 but they still have no solid answer, nor are they eager to give one, regarding everything from 101 Dalmatians to The Fox and the Hound...
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Post by David S. »

If this shows even more of the entire animation frame than what was previously released, I applaud that! :wink:

Of course, I also hope the extras on the standard DVD edition are substantial enough to merit an upgrade from the SE, and in any case, even if I buy the Platinum I plan on keeping my SE, especially if things like Grand Canyon and Tchaikovsky Story, etc don't make the cut.

Thanks for the link to Lowry. I noticed they list Black Cauldron as something they worked on. From reading the UD review of the Gold Collection version, this doesn't sound like it was a Lowry transfer, as it describes "instances when the image looks slightly blurry or print imperfections pop across the screen". So perhaps this is a sign that Cauldron could be getting a re-release soon.

Interesting that they don't list Pinocchio. Wasn't the R2 done by Lowry?
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Post by Escapay »

David S. wrote:I noticed they list Black Cauldron as something they worked on. From reading the UD review of the Gold Collection version, this doesn't sound like it was a Lowry transfer, as it describes "instances when the image looks slightly blurry or print imperfections pop across the screen". So perhaps this is a sign that Cauldron could be getting a re-release soon.
It could be the French DVD re-release that came out a couple years ago, as that version was restored and anamorphic.
David S. wrote:Interesting that they don't list Pinocchio. Wasn't the R2 done by Lowry?
I'm pretty sure it was a Lowry restoration. I have no idea why it's not listed, though. Maybe they removed it because Pinocchio is out of print at the moment?
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Re: Sleeping Blu-ray

Post by AlwaysOAR »

Escapay wrote: Anyway, I think/hope that I found an answer to the "Can Technirama really be 2.55:1?" conundrum.

Doing some quick searches online, I found an online table that showed the various widescreen processes there were, along with technical specifications for each. When it came to Technirama, while it's generally known/accepted that the 35mm film is shot horizontally through the camera, what's also important (and should have been factored in when I was trying to figure out what the hell was going on with 2.55:1) is the amount of the frame actually being used. I (stupidly) assumed that shooting the entire frame would always yield the standard 2.25:1 that, when transferred to 35mm and 70mm prints, would get the 2.35:1 and 2.20:1 ratios, respectively. But in actuality, the amount and dimensions of the frame area you use can get different types of aspect ratios.

Anyway, according to the table, these are the frame areas used in Technirama...

On 8-35A1.5H format:
1.496x0.992 will yield the 2.26:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives (this is the generally known one, though most often round it to 2.25:1)
1.480x0.915 will yield a 2.42:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives

On 4-35A2.0 format:
0.839x.0715 will yield a 2.35:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives
0.912x0.715 will yield the 2.55:1 aspect ratio on the original negatives

God, I hope I got all that right (where's deathie when I need him?)

If I did get it right, then the mystery is solved! Sleeping Beauty must have been shot with a frame area of 0.912x0.715 if it yields a 2.55:1 aspect ratio on the original camera negatives.
I guess you'll have to update your list now to reflect SB, as well as The Black Cauldron, being animated at 2.55:1, but projected theatrically for both 2.20 & 2.35:1. :)
Escapay wrote:The part of me that appreciates the backgrounds and animation is excited for the 2.55:1 (:D), but the theatrical purist in me is still a bit upset that we're not getting the 2.20:1 70mm aspect ratio (:(). It's a small consolation knowing that the 35mm print has already been released on VHS, laserdisc, and the 2003 DVD, but to the best of my knowledge, the 70mm version has yet to surface on any home video format. And given that 70mm is the more acceptable theatrical ratio (as it was the one predominantly used in its original release), it's a pity and a shame that we're still not getting it. Additional picture in the 2.55:1 is fine and all, but it's not representative of the original theatrical experience (which is what I'd rather have, hence, why I prefer matted widescreen for the 60s/70s films).
:clap: Yeah, I'll just wait another seven years till they get it right. At the very least they could have had the 2.55:1 animated version along with the intended 2.20:1 version. So let's see, this year Disney will be 1 for 5 in their DAC releases. Animated instead of intended ratios for Dalmatians, SitS and SB, and the same edited version for Saludos in the Classic Caballeros Coll. The only one they got right was Aristocats.
You don't make the film fill your TV, be it 4:3 or 16:9, you make your TV fit the original ratio of the film. If that means a letterboxing or pillarboxing of a film, so be it.
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Post by Disneykid »

I, personally, don't think it's something that merits skipping a purchase (unless you're just really satisfied with the 2003 SE, which actually is cropped vertically from the theatrical ratio). The added picture in the 2008 PE doesn't drastically change the intended ratio. I equate this case with the CAPS films that were created in 1.66:1 and shown in theaters in 1.85:1. Most of those films on DVD are presented in the negative ratio, not the theatrical one (the exceptions being Beauty and the Beast and The Hunchback of Notre Dame).
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Post by Jules »

1) I can't believe Disney would actually pay to have Black Cauldron restored by Lowry, of all people. If it's true, then they get my hearty applause!

2) That list of films on the Lowry website is entitled "Notable Film Restorations", implying that not every Lowry restoration is listed. Perhaps that explains Pinocchio's absence.

3) Pocahontas is listed. Does it refer to Disney's version? If so, what is it doing there? Wouldn't such a film be transferred directly from the CAPS files?

EDIT: On the website, Lowry claim to have restored over 200 films. That list shows only about 60, hence proving that it's incomplete.
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Post by 2099net »

Julian Carter wrote:1) I can't believe Disney would actually pay to have Black Cauldron restored by Lowry, of all people. If it's true, then they get my hearty applause!

2) That list of films on the Lowry website is entitled "Notable Film Restorations", implying that not every Lowry restoration is listed. Perhaps that explains Pinocchio's absence.

3) Pocahontas is listed. Does it refer to Disney's version? If so, what is it doing there? Wouldn't such a film be transferred directly from the CAPS files?

EDIT: On the website, Lowry claim to have restored over 200 films. That list shows only about 60, hence proving that it's incomplete.
I believe that Lowry have two levels of restoration, and most of the restorations are of the "lower" quality (because they are cheaper and studios don't want to pay the full money for "lesser" films). I read this on a Blu-ray site (probably... www.blu-ray.com).
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

http://blueskydisney.blogspot.com/2008/ ... night.html

Those of you lucky enough to be in the Los Angeles area on July 18th are in for a treat...

The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is having one of their Gold Standard Screening Series. That Friday at 7:30 pm in the Samuel Goldwyn Theater in Beverly Hills a digitally restored print of Walt Disney's "Sleeping Beauty" will be shown. The event will be hosted by Leonard Maltin and after the showing there will be a discussion with animator Andreas Deja, preservationist Theo Gluck, Disney sound department chief Terry Porter and Dave Bossert, creative director of special projects. The event is open to the public and tickets are only five dollars...


If any of you live near L.A., you could go and see how the restored film actually looks...!!!!
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Post by yukitora »

What?! LAME!!

Americans get everything :cry:

ps. Did any of these events happen to any other platinum edition films?
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Post by Disneykid »

yukitora wrote:Did any of these events happen to any other platinum edition films?
Yes, but usually they took place at the El Capitan theater. I know Disney had events like this for:

Cinderella
Lady and the Tramp
The Little Mermaid
Peter Pan
The Jungle Book

And, while not a Platinum, there was also one for Dumbo.

Anybody who can make it to the Sleeping Beauty one (and knows the 2003 SE restoration very well), please let us know how this new one compares.
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Post by 2099net »

Disneykid wrote:Anybody who can make it to the Sleeping Beauty one (and knows the 2003 SE restoration very well), please let us know how this new one compares.
The colours are all wrong, it looks like somebody at Disney went mad with MS paint, the lines are too thick, the voices have been redubbed and the aspect ratio is all wrong. :) Apart from that, its fine. :D
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Post by Disneykid »

2099net wrote:
Disneykid wrote:Anybody who can make it to the Sleeping Beauty one (and knows the 2003 SE restoration very well), please let us know how this new one compares.
The colours are all wrong, it looks like somebody at Disney went mad with MS paint, the lines are too thick, the voices have been redubbed and the aspect ratio is all wrong. :) Apart from that, its fine. :D
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Post by Escapay »

I hope Pluto Region1 will get a chance to go to the event and write about it for UD. I always enjoy reading her articles!

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Post by steven132 »

I am probably going to be able to attend, its a reall good deal at 5 dollars. When I sa the recent Narnia film at the ElCapitan there was a poster for the showing of Sleeping Beauty with a mention of the panel discussion on the first night. I think it starts sometime in August.
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Post by L&E »

From Play.com

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/5888271/ ... oduct.html

DVD
Sleeping Beauty: 50th Anniversary Platinum Edition (Disney)


Special Features
- Audio Commentary (I might have missed this, but is a new commentary on the way for this release?)
- Princess Fun Facts
- "Once Upon A Dream" Music Video (A new one? or the No Secrets cover? :? )
- Disney Song Selection
- Picture Perfect: The Making Of Sleeping Beauty
- Alternate Opening
- 4 Deleted Songs

- Storyboard Sequences
- Live Action Reference
- Sleeping Beauty Art Galleries
- Sleeping Beauty Castle Walk-Thru Attraction
- Publicity
- The Peter Tchaikovsky Story
- Four Artist Paint One Tree
- Briar Rose's Enchanted Dance Game
- Sleeping Beauty Fun With Language Game


I marked with blue the new bonus features. Seems good to me
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Post by yukitora »

ooh thanks!

I hope Publicity covers trailers and the like, but probably not :(

That definitely seems like a lot of bonuses. Is anything missing? (besides Grand Canyon)
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Post by Escapay »

L&E wrote:From Play.com

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/5888271/ ... oduct.html

DVD
Sleeping Beauty: 50th Anniversary Platinum Edition (Disney)


Special Features
- Audio Commentary (I might have missed this, but is a new commentary on the way for this release?)
- Princess Fun Facts
- "Once Upon A Dream" Music Video (A new one? or the No Secrets cover? :? )
- Disney Song Selection
- Picture Perfect: The Making Of Sleeping Beauty
- Alternate Opening
- 4 Deleted Songs

- Storyboard Sequences
- Live Action Reference
- Sleeping Beauty Art Galleries
- Sleeping Beauty Castle Walk-Thru Attraction
- Publicity
- The Peter Tchaikovsky Story
- Four Artist Paint One Tree
- Briar Rose's Enchanted Dance Game
- Sleeping Beauty Fun With Language Game


I marked with blue the new bonus features. Seems good to me
Thanks, L&E

The audio commentary is a new one with John Lasseter, Andreas Deja and Leonard Maltin, and it's mentioned as a picture-in-picture one for Blu-Ray.

Text commentaries are always fun (especially on Star Trek and Doctor Who DVDs, and on Disney DVDs like Mary Poppins and Aladdin) but both of the trivia tracks for Dalmatians were rather lightweight (but still informative), and since we're only getting one here ("Princess Fun Facts" :roll: ), I'm already a bit disappointed, and prepared to be a bit more if it's as lightweight as the Dalmatians one.

Even though I really don't care for the teenybopper-cross-promotion music video, any new version is welcome to replace that "No Secrets" piece of trash on the 2003 DVD. Of course, I'd prefer *no* teenybopper-cross-promotion music video, but we all know that's never gonna happen.

I like the title for the documentary (Picture Perfect), because at least we know it's a new one and not like the Peter Pan fiasco ("You Can Fly") where it turned out to be the old 15-minute one. I'm really hoping that the new documentary isn't just a bunch of contemporary animators and historians discussing the film, with only 2 or 3 original participants. If I had it my way, they would have taken the 2003 audio documentary, married its audio extracts back to the video interviews that they were originally done for, and re-edited it with new interviews (with animators/historians/etc.) and forming a more "narrative" structure than the audio documentary.

The alternate opening seems intriguing, especially since I can't find any information about it (unless I'm simply not searching hard enough...)

And it's nice to attach a number to the deleted songs. Two are featured in the 2003 audio documentary: "Riddle Diddle" and "Go to Sleep, Rest Ye Well", and PrincePhillipFan mentioned two more ("Mirage" and "Sunbeams In Pocket").

And YES! The storyboard sequences and live-action references that were on the laserdisc and 2003 DVD have been carried over!

I expect that Art Galleries to be the same as the 2003, except losing the "virtual" world they were in and opting for the standard versions we see on Platinums today.

The Castle Walk-Thru sounds like the TLM ride or the Flying Through Never Land CGI sequence. Something I'll probably enjoy once or twice, and promptly forget about.

"Publicity" better mean trailers, TV spots, and radio spots, as well as "Grand Canyon" and the Helene Stanley clip from "Mickey Mouse Club" (which was on the laserdisc but not the 2003 DVD)

Nice to see the two short features (Tchaikovsky & Four Artists) are still intact as well.

The games I can do without, but will play once simply as the courtesy/respect for the designers.

And for those interested, here's material from the 2003 DVD that's not listed as being part of the 2008 DVD (based on the the list L&E found). Some of it may re-appear on the 2008 DVD, but I feel it may be in an altered form...

Audio Documentary (or as it's more commonly known, the Audio Commentary): (1 hour, 15 minutes, 23 seconds) - like I said earlier, they may/should take elements from this and use it in the new documentary. It essentially is an audio documentary anyway.
-Hosted by Disney historian Jeff Kurtti, with comments by production designer Eyvind Earle, voice actor Mary Costa (Aurora), directing animators Ollie Johnston (Three Good Fairies) and Marc Davis (Aurora, Maleficent), background artist Frank Armitage, Pocahontas director Mike Gabriel, and Pocahontas art designer Michael Giaimo.

Games, Music, & Fun: (17 minutes, 16 seconds)
-Disney's Art Project (11:42)
--Introduction (1:17)
--Design a Princess (5:17)
--Build a Dragon (5:08 )
-Rescue Aurora Adventure Game
-Princess Personality Profile
-Sing-Along: "Once Upon A Dream" (2:55)
-Music Video: "Once Upon a (Another) Dream" - No Secrets (3:39)
-Sleeping Beauty Ink & Paint Game

History & Behind the Scenes: (2 hours, 47 minutes, 16 seconds, 669 Stills)
-Once Upon a Dream: The Making of Sleeping Beauty (16:22)

-Story (22 minutes, 41 seconds, 10 text-based stills) - Disney doesn't do text stills that much anymore so these could be gone.
--The History of the Story (10 text-based stills)
--The 1951 Outline (22:41)

-Production (14 minutes, 3 seconds) - the first three can easily be edited into the documentary, while the latter two are old laserdisc pieces that likely won't be carried over (even if the widescreen to pan-and-scan comparison should be)
--The Music (2:46)
--The Design (3:22)
--Creating the Backgrounds (1:07)
--The Restoration (2:57)
--Widescreen to Pan-and-Scan Comparison (3:50)

-Sleeping Beauty Virtual Galleries - the "virtual" aspect will likely disappear.
-26 minutes and 14 seconds worth of audio commentary on 80 stills (out of the total 541)
-11 Text-based stills with information related to each gallery

-Publicity (6 minutes, 11 seconds) - these could be in the aptly-titled "Publicity" section, but Disney has been known to only include the posters there...grrr...
--Original Teaser Trailer - 1959 (1:43)
--Original Theatrical Trailer - 1959 (3:12)
--Re-Release Trailer - 1995 (1:26)

-Grand Canyon (29:16)
--Introduction Text Still with Commentary (0:23)
--Grand Canyon (28:53)

Albert
Last edited by Escapay on Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by PeterPanfan »

I guess I'll be buying this Platinum edition.

It also means I'll be searching for the Special Edition, too.
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Post by Escapay »

Panfan wrote:I guess I'll be buying this Platinum edition.

It also means I'll be searching for the Special Edition, too.
Excellent. :D The audio documentary alone is worth hunting it down. ;)

For years I've been meaning to either compile a written transcript of the entire thing or rip the audio into an mp3, but never had the time (or dedication) to do either.

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Sleeping Beauty: Platinum Edition

Post by Disney Duster »

Escapay, you're confusing me. Is the Audio Documentary the Audio Commentary on the 2003 SE DVD? That had "Riddle Diddle" and the other songs in it while you watched the film? Because if you want to be all proper and official and letting people know the exact correct information, you should call it what it's called, and just nickname it in paranthesis if you must.
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