Love for... California Adventure

[Edge]

I think DCA runs into one very major problem. It's a Disney Theme Park that's not quite Disney enough but not really good enough to compete with the Knottsberry Farm/ Six Flags franchises.

It's obviously designed for a bit more thrills than Disney parks normally contain, but most people don't go to Disneyland to have nothing more coasters/carnival stuff. It's def. a design from the cost cutting 90's with Disney and the park suffers for it.

There are some very good attractions, but it lacks that one signature ride that people HAVE to go on. While Tower of Terror is fun for most younger people, it's demographic is VERY limited. Older people won't ride it, younger kids can't and most people to to Disney parks to relax and be entertained not dropped and shocked.

If you're going to do a park like DCA you have to give people a choice in their plans. It's one reason Epcot and even MGM studios works better. They just offer more choices to people who attend.

However I don't think California Adventure is a lost cause. Add something like The Great Movie Ride and two other rides and I think people would be a bit more receptive.

It seems like they tried combining the "best" elements from MGM and Epcot with DCA but missed what made both parks enjoyable and that's rides.

[dizfan]

I think DCA runs into one very major problem. It's a Disney Theme Park that's not quite Disney enough but not really good enough to compete with the Knottsberry Farm/ Six Flags franchises.

There is no competition, DCA - like all Disney parks - is more popular than those parks. having been with small children, and just grown ups I think there is a definate mix of things to do for all ages.

There are some very good attractions, but it lacks that one signature ride that people HAVE to go on.

Soarin'.

[mcduck]

I think DCA runs into one very major problem. It's a Disney Theme Park that's not quite Disney enough but not really good enough to compete with the Knottsberry Farm/ Six Flags franchises.

It's obviously designed for a bit more thrills than Disney parks normally contain, but most people don't go to Disneyland to have nothing more coasters/carnival stuff. It's def. a design from the cost cutting 90's with Disney and the park suffers for it.

There are some very good attractions, but it lacks that one signature ride that people HAVE to go on. While Tower of Terror is fun for most younger people, it's demographic is VERY limited. Older people won't ride it, younger kids can't and most people to to Disney parks to relax and be entertained not dropped and shocked.

If you're going to do a park like DCA you have to give people a choice in their plans. It's one reason Epcot and even MGM studios works better. They just offer more choices to people who attend.

However I don't think California Adventure is a lost cause. Add something like The Great Movie Ride and two other rides and I think people would be a bit more receptive.

It seems like they tried combining the "best" elements from MGM and Epcot with DCA but missed what made both parks enjoyable and that's rides.

Totally agree, also I think that if there where not annual passes this park would be close some time ago, it is obvious that the annual pass holders are the majority in the park, would be nice if the Disneyland ticket could take you to both parks (yes I know about the hopper and I know that it cost almost the same as if you buy them separately)... because it would take a lot of effort to give this park the taste of been in a Disney place.

[memnv]

When I went to Disney Thanksgiving weekend DCA was pretty full and I don't think it was Annual ticket holders. I am pretty sure that is one of the Blackout Periods.

[MickeyMousePal]

Hey, memnv if you went to DCA on Thanksgiving weekend when do you do your Christmas shopping?

The best day is black friday (after thanksgivng) right.

[Edge]

I think DCA runs into one very major problem. It's a Disney Theme Park that's not quite Disney enough but not really good enough to compete with the Knottsberry Farm/ Six Flags franchises.

There is no competition, DCA - like all Disney parks - is more popular than those parks. having been with small children, and just grown ups I think there is a definate mix of things to do for all ages.

There are some very good attractions, but it lacks that one signature ride that people HAVE to go on.

Soarin'.

I don't know really. I'm not really a coaster fan so the coasters aren't something I'd do multiple times. If I was, I personally think the other parks have better actual roller coasters. So in that sense it's a bit of a tweener.

If you're a slow ride type person I just don't think there's quite enough high-level stuff for you. If you're a fast ride person, there's probably options out there that offer more coasters and better coasters. So assuming DCA goes for the middle ground, how many people are really there? Juding by certain attendance numbers and feedback, probably not as many as they'd hoped.

As for Soarin, I enjoy the ride but it's not something that really resonates with me like other attractions. There's something about Pirates, Haunted Mansion or even Indiana Jones that just feels more magical. Soarin is certainly fun, but I just don't think it's a quite a fladship ride. It gets mentioned more for its impressive technology than it does as something that will really stick in the mind and memories for years to come.

I do want to stress that I don't dislike DCA, but I'd probably put it no higher than fifth on my North American Disney parks list.

[memnv]

Hey, memnv if you went to DCA on Thanksgiving weekend when do you do your Christmas shopping?

The best day is black friday (after thanksgivng) right.

I normally go shopping on Black Friday, but last year we decided to go to DIsneyland instead. That was suppose to be out Christmas gift but as it turned out we still got gifts too. Anyways I will not go Thanksgiving weekend again, I have been told by the locals the best time to go is the week before Christmas, that there is no lines

[dizfan]

As someone who is at the park 5 days a week and speaks to hunderds of Guests a month, I have a different perspective on the Guest experience at this park esp. about Soarin'.

[Edge]

That's cool.....

Was there this past weekend and was amazed to see how realtively empty it still is.

Though I do think rides like Monsters Inc are certainly a step in the right direction.

[Pluto Region1]

Paradise Pier can then become an addition to Downtown Disney. Of course, there would not be free admission to the rides. Disney could bring back the old ticket books and sell individual tickets so people can choose to pay for the experience they want.

The point of reasons 1 and 2...Moving Paradise Pier to Downtown Disney makes it more attractive to tourists and local visitors. More people would visit the Pier. Profits shouldn't really suffer since there are more people going on the rides, playing the games, eating the food, shopping the shops, etc. More people means more money for Disney!

4)Let's face it...Aaron's right that the area is not really what one thinks of finding inside a Disney theme park. Less people are going to DCA because people don't want to pay the Disney Theme Park admission price for something they can do outside of Disney.

Kram, this is just brilliant!!! Disney should HIRE you. I too recently listened to Aaron's podcast about his trip to DL/DCA and I then posted over at DPN in Aaron's Podcast thread about this and it almost makes me ashamed of my post! Basically I said that the park was like going to Six Flags Magic Mountain (esp. the Paradise Pier part) and that they started out with a good concept "California History and Environments" and just did not do a good execution of it. I then stated: "In fact, I wish they'd just tear out most of it and use it to expand Disneyland. Now that they've created the room by moving the parking lot into the giant parking structure, they've made it possible to expand DL right there."

The point is, it would cost a fortune to tear out the rides they built, but in my scheme of it, I was thinking, they could absorb them into a bigger expanded DL, but short of doing something Soooo radical as what I suggested, and many here have posted about some of the excellent rides that DCA DOES actually have that I'd totally not considered when making my post, your solution would be less drastic and I think do-able. I doubt I would get my wish that DCA just be leveled and Disneyland absorbed (due to the $ and reputational investment that has been made in it) so what you've proposed is far more realistic and pragmatic and your reasoning supurb!

Getting back to Loomis's thead topic, I still think they need to work on entire park concept - is it supposed to be about California history and couldn't the attractions do a better job of that (see old Knotts Berry Farm for example) or is it supposed to be like WDW in florida with MGM studios... where is this going? If you have more than the 2 concepts (WDW vs. California history) then it needs to be more clearly designated like how that is done with various designated "Lands" in Disneyland. But instead most of the park is supposedly California-themed but then all the sudden there is the "backlot"... I don't know, I mean I guess you can argue the backlot is just Hollywood on it own, but I think the park would be better attended if people got the idea more clearly as to what the place is about. Without this, it is nothing more than a Six Flags theme park and very un-Disney like.

[Pluto Region1]

Posted twice, sorry!

[dizfan]

"In fact, I wish they'd just tear out most of it and use it to expand Disneyland. Now that they've created the room by moving the parking lot into the giant parking structure, they've made it possible to expand DL right there."

It goes without saying that this concept would never work and probably make the Resort a confusing mess for visitors. And I am speaking about both expanding DL IN FRONT ( !!)of the exisiting park and connecting Paradise Pier to Downtown Disney.

is it supposed to be like WDW in florida with MGM studios... where is this going?

Yes, the Hollywood Pictures Backlot is supposed to have a similar theme (on a smaller scale, of course) to the MGM park in Florida...since that park is themed to Hollywood, CALIFORNIA.

If you have more than the 2 concepts (WDW vs. California history) then it needs to be more clearly designated like how that is done with various designated "Lands" in Disneyland.

What two concepts? WDW is not a concept. WDW has a park that's themed to Hollywood, California. Hollywood is a big part of California History, it would have been a glaring omission had an land based on Hollywood not been there.

But instead most of the park is supposedly California-themed but then all the sudden there is the "backlot"... I don't know, I mean I guess you can argue the backlot is just Hollywood on it own

I don't think there would be an argument, this is probably the land that makes the most sense to be in this park behind Golden State. I am surprised that you didn't use a bug's land to make your point since that is the most perplexing thing that is in the park.

but I think the park would be better attended if people got the idea more clearly as to what the place is about. Without this, it is nothing more than a Six Flags theme park and very un-Disney like.

Like I said, I have a different perspective since I am there so much and see Guests reactions and such. But they get the hint: Disney's California Adventure: it's about California "This is like a Hollywood section" "That must be the beach" "This looks like a national park".

These are the bare basic observations one can take, and if a Guest only sees it like this (or as a "six flags" and "un-Disney like")- - well, that's too bad for them, it's their loss - - but they get it. Whether they like it or not, well that doesn't really matter much to me - -to each their own.

To sum up: that whole "the theme is confusing" thing has always fallen on deaf ears when it comes to me.

[BrandonH]

Some of the connections are tangential, but all of the areas and attractions of DCA are related to California somehow. It makes sense to me.

Something that separates DCA from the non-Disney parks in the state is the immersive nature and attention to detail in each attraction. From the back of the line to the exit, each ride and show feels like a cohesive experience.

The park still needs a couple more major draws before it makes sense to spend the whole day there, but there is plenty to love in DCA.

[Edge]

These are the bare basic observations one can take, and if a Guest only sees it like this (or as a "six flags" and "un-Disney like")- - well, that's too bad for them, it's their loss - - but they get it. Whether they like it or not, well that doesn't really matter much to me - -to each their own.

To sum up: that whole "the theme is confusing" thing has always fallen on deaf ears when it comes to me.

I agree, but I think that's pretty much the answer to the question.

In order for Theme Parks to hit that higher level (and ultimately stand the test of time) they have to offer something that will stand out to the average person, not necessarily just the fan so to speak.

Theme parks often don't have the same luxury as a hobby or niche activity so to speak. Because of the money involved, it does matter whether the average person enjoys it.

While I personally enjoy it, the problem they've run into (and it will continue to be an uphill battle) is that the average person doesn't get it and that's reflective in the jokes about the park, the lower than expected attendance and most importantly the perception that the park has flopped to some extent. Now as a PR person (speaking from experience) that is the toughest label to shed. It might not even be true, but if the public believes it to be true than you're in trouble.

I think part of what's happened is that families just have to budget themselves right now. Between gas and other outside factors, most people might not be able to drop $120 bucks on a two day park hopper or more on season passes. So when push comes to shove they're going to go with Disneyland because they feel they'll get more for the money.

I think that's where part of the problem for DCA comes into play and probably the biggest complaint I've heard.

But again I think if you add a few dark rides to the mix and you can start to battle the perception.

[Kram Nebuer]

Kram, this is just brilliant!!! Disney should HIRE you. I too recently listened to Aaron's podcast about his trip to DL/DCA and I then posted over at DPN in Aaron's Podcast thread about this and it almost makes me ashamed of my post! Basically I said that the park was like going to Six Flags Magic Mountain (esp. the Paradise Pier part) and that they started out with a good concept "California History and Environments" and just did not do a good execution of it. I then stated: "In fact, I wish they'd just tear out most of it and use it to expand Disneyland. Now that they've created the room by moving the parking lot into the giant parking structure, they've made it possible to expand DL right there."

Thanks. After I bumped this topic, I wasn't sure if anyone read my post since everyone stuck to the main thread topic. Thank you for reading and awknowleding it! Though the problem with my idea, now that I think about it, is that Disney will have a tough time selling such a concept to the public when (if it happens) a lot of people already know it used to be part of a theme park. Anyhow, I would love to see my idea happen as long as they're able to expand DCA at the same time.

Oh, and I would LOVE for Disney to hire me for there Theme Parks! It's always been a childhood dream to be an Imagineer, but sadly I gave into parental pressures of doing something practical (science). If I have one regret in life, it's that I never put enough passion into my childhood dreams (even with watching all those Disney movies! ).

Anyhow, that was too off topic!

Something that separates DCA from the non-Disney parks in the state is the immersive nature and attention to detail in each attraction. From the back of the line to the exit, each ride and show feels like a cohesive experience.

That's definitely true. Our Six Flags in NJ (Six Flags Great Adventure) tried to capture the Disney theme park feel by having themed lands (a lot of other parks try to do this too), but they're always changing and being inconsistent that the themed lands have been fizzling out. We keep getting new roller coasters (not complaining about that though! ) that are being put in strange places that the themed lands aren't working so well.

[Pluto Region1]

"In fact, I wish they'd just tear out most of it and use it to expand Disneyland. Now that they've created the room by moving the parking lot into the giant parking structure, they've made it possible to expand DL right there."

It goes without saying that this concept would never work and probably make the Resort a confusing mess for visitors. And I am speaking about both expanding DL IN FRONT ( !!)of the exisiting park and connecting Paradise Pier to Downtown Disney.

Let me explain how I had envisioned joining the 2 parks. I don't think this is going to confuse anyone once the 2 areas are joined. The esplanade between Disneyland and DCA will be filled in and the parks joined that way. The entrance gates will be moved forward to where the current ticket booths are. The esplanade can then be filled with restaurants, an attraction, stores, whatever... the biggest problem with this is now we've lost the space used generally for the long lines to get in. However Disney will loose the ability to charge 2 entrance fees and they can't just double the current entrance fee for Disneyland to $120, since that would be too expensive. So I think this idea is pretty much dead in the water.

What two concepts? WDW is not a concept. WDW has a park that's themed to Hollywood, California. Hollywood is a big part of California History, it would have been a glaring omission had an land based on Hollywood not been there.

Ok I think I was tired it was late at night when I typed this. The point I was trying to make (which you don't agree with) is that this park is poorly conceptualized, IMO. The park is supposed to be about California History/Culture. The backlot is a very concisely and well executed area but the rest of the park (other than the pier which is pretty obvious) is not very well conceptualized. I am not in the minority in expressing this opinion. Granted I have not spent much time in this park; I am giving you a layman's perspective from a person who has maybe been their 4 times and none of those times was I there more than an hour.

Like I said, I have a different perspective since I am there so much and see Guests reactions and such. But they get the hint: Disney's California Adventure: it's about California "This is like a Hollywood section" "That must be the beach" "This looks like a national park"..... These are the bare basic observations one can take, and if a Guest only sees it like this (or as a "six flags" and "un-Disney like")- - well, that's too bad for them, it's their loss - - but they get it. Whether they like it or not.

The purpose of the thread was to discuss WHY we thought the park was not doing as well or how that could be improved, therefore I thought criticism of DCA would be welcome here. and it sounds as if you are very attached to the park the way it is...

You are there 5 days a week so I assume you live in the area... I am always interested in meeting fellow UDers and I bet you'd be a good tour guide, perhaps sometime we can meet there and you could show me what you like about the park or show me what you think could be improved, in if anything. In fact, if there are any other California locals, it would be great for us all to meet there together and we could hash it out.

[Pluto Region1]

Though the problem with my idea, now that I think about it, is that Disney will have a tough time selling such a concept to the public when (if it happens) a lot of people already know it used to be part of a theme park. Anyhow, I would love to see my idea happen as long as they're able to expand DCA at the same time.

Well I don't think realistically Disney is going to listen to any of our ideas, if that is any consolation!

Oh, and I would LOVE for Disney to hire me for there Theme Parks! It's always been a childhood dream to be an Imagineer, but sadly I gave into parental pressures of doing something practical (science). If I have one regret in life, it's that I never put enough passion into my childhood dreams (even with watching all those Disney movies! ).

A science career is a practical goal that will enable you to make a good living so you can afford a super deluxe annual pass and many vacations to WDW.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

While my feelings on DCA remain pretty much the same as my earlier post, I think it's hard to fix DCA, because to completely redo the theme and the area would take way to long.

I'm not saying your idea to rearange was a bad idea Kram, it's actually a really good one, but I think that idea should've came to Disney before construction. Now that's it's actually running on concreate right now, I don't know if rearanging the park or changing the theme completely is the answer to fixing DCA.

To put in my two cents, here are my ideas to fix DCA:

1. Extend Hollywood Pictures Backlot: While I wouldn't go as far as saying the whole park should be rethemed to it, I do agree it's the best land in the park in terms of theme and it needs more. In fact, with the exception of "It's Tough to Be a Bug"(which can stay for a little longer), I say dump all of "A Bug's Land". It has nothing to do with California and was only built to get more kiddy rides. I mean, you have room for almost an entire Fantasyland there, why not put dark rides based on movies? Monster's Inc. is a good start(having not been on it yet, I won't say "great") but they need more of them! If they can't how about new shows? Like the special effects show at Universal or something on the lines of Drew Carrey at MGM Studios?

2. Fix Paradise Pier: I think its OK is they wanted to have a carnival theme, but just make it better says I! California Screamin' is great, but the others leave something to be desired. Why not make some of them a little more themed? Like actually build designs of "L.A. traffic" on "Mulholland Madness"? Or maybe make some of more thrilling because those swings could go on longer. Not enough kid stuff? Make a couple of good kid attraction like that The Little Mermaid themed Merry-Go-Round in there are well. Also something NEEDS to be done with that river below the dock! In fact, they should've put the Nemo ride here! If DCA has to have that Pixar theme, why not make it worth it as it'd probably be a popular attraction, and it fits into the theme a little bit as it's in the ocean, and California's famous for it's beaches. And then they could've built something SCI-FI like to Tomorrowland!

3. Redo a couple attractions: Grizzly River Run is a great attraction and is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than that stupid raft ride at Animal Kingdom, it could be better. Why not add an animatronic bear, like Disney did with the Matterhorn and the abominable snowman? Or how about giving the Country Bears a new home like what Splash Mountain did? Make them sing California country songs, then it could fit in the theme! I'm not fond of Soarin' at all, but it should stay. Maybe change it a bit, but other than that fine. They could add more stuff to that Brother Bear playground, other than that, it's really pretty fun actually. Maybe they could add another attraction, but I don't have much to say with "Golden State".

That's really all I could think of. So while DCA is getting better, it still hasn't meet standards at all, but with some ideas, somewhat similar to mine, I'd think it'd improve greatly.

[Pluto Region1]

I mean, you have room for almost an entire Fantasyland there, why not put dark rides based on movies? Monster's Inc. is a good start(having not been on it yet, I won't say "great") but they need more of them!

I'd be into that! MY favorite rides at DL are the dark rides in Fantasyland... They can do their tributes to the Pixar movies by making dark rides out of them, which I guess is what they did with Monsters? (I haven't seen it either so I don't know what the Monsters ride is about)

2. Fix Paradise Pier: I think its OK is they wanted to have a carnival theme, but just make it better says I! California Screamin' is great, but the others leave something to be desired. Why not make some of them a little more themed? Like actually build designs of "L.A. traffic" on "Mulholland Madness"?.....

Yes, they could do a better job of incorporating more of California History or landmarks into some inventive ride-attractions. They should have consulted some California Historians... As for the lake, they spent a lot of money (and space) on that vast body of water, which does nothing except look nice. Its a nice amenity but they should make use of the water either by putting in something like a paddle boats "rental" feature where people can go out onto the lake in a little paddle boat (this was very popular in Los Angeles area turn-of-the century lakes up here; we still have one in Echo Park Lake), or put in a new water-based attraction (like Jungle Boat Cruise in DL).

Why not add an animatronic bear, like Disney did with the Matterhorn and the abominable snowman? Or how about giving the Country Bears a new home like what Splash Mountain did?

Yeah, great idea! It would be more Disney-like too. I had a really crazy idea which would never happen but could be kind of cool... you know that place called "Yesterland" on the internet? Wouldn't it be neat to turn DCA into "Yesterland" and install some of the rides from the bygone eras that are largely missed! I know it would never happen, but it is fun to think about it. I could have my Skyway back!

[dizfan]

I am giving you a layman's perspective from a person who has maybe been their 4 times and none of those times was I there more than an hour.

As someone who has spent less than 4 hours in the park, I really don't think you are the in the best position to critique it based on your own experiences, IMO. I think a full day experience at a park, any park Disney or not, is best before passing judgement. I even did that for Walt Disney Studios Paris before I agreed with just about everyone else about it.

And as someone who works at the park and speaks to many Guests daily, I can say that the park is enjoyed a lot more than what is posted on Disney-Phile sites.