Finding Nemo is a shoe-in for many reasons.
1) It's the #1 animated movie of all time. Even though grosses SHOULDN'T mean anything to the Academy, do you think they'd honestly consider giving it to anything else?
2) As Luke stated, it had nicer timing than Brother Bear. Coming in May, it had the entire summer to get a mass audience and get universal praise.
3) It'll be back on people's minds come November because of the surefire success of the DVD. I truly do think that Nemo will not only be the bestselling DVD of the holiday season, but also of the year, and of all time.
4) For pretty much everyone, a few years down the road when people mention the year 2003 and animation in the same train of thougt, people will automatically think FINDING NEMO. Brother Bear might be better, but Nemo has the upper hand because of its timing. Also, even if it makes a splash opening weekend, I fear Brother Bear will be overshadowed this season by the plethora of other, more well-known brand-name kids movies, like The Cat in the Hat and Disney's own Haunted Mansion. Remember, Mansion is due out just a few weeks after Brother Bear, which means that soon after Brother Bear is released Disney will shift gears and concentrate its marketing blitz on Mansion. And again, "Haunted Mansion" and "Cat in the Hat" are more reccognizable to the average moviegoer than Brother Bear due to the fact that they are already successful exsisting properties, by way of the ride and the book, respectively.
And after its lackluster performance at the boxoffice and no one paying it any mind, Sinbad won't have a chance. It will be nominated, naturally, but it won't have a chance to win against Nemo. Not that it should, either -- it's a wonderful film but Nemo wins out hands down, no question.
*(Personally, I think Brother Bear will be very very good but seriously doubt that it will be able to top Nemo qualitywise.)
2004 Oscar Predictions - Best Animated Feature Film
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Jake Lipson
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I'm not arguing with you Jake - apart from the highest grossing Animation film of all time comment. It's not. Remember a little thing called inflation?
The arguments you use are what is most likely to happen. But just to go on public popularity is wrong (but something the Academy seems to be doing more and more recently - witness the farce that was Gladiator winning Best Picture a few years ago).
Being popular doesn't make it better - over here the Sun is the best selling paper, but it's a downmarket rag that wouldn't win any awards. I expect the same is true for America and the National Inquirer or something similar?
I've not seen any of this years likely animated film nominations, so I cannot comment on Nemo's suitability. I'm just pointing out - respectfully - that no one as seen Brother Bear (and I guess hardly anyone has seen Milenium Actress) so the race is still open. The fact is as it stands at the moment, people can only argue for Nemo to win based on Box Office - not the quality of Nemo over the all the other films. And that's wrong. And if it's not wrong, than it should be. I cannot say if Nemo deserves to win or not, but so far no-one has said Nemo deserves to win due to it's script, this particular scene, or the voice acting of any particular actor. I find that quite interesting.
Nobody should base the artistic worth of a movie on it's business. Not anybody of this forum and especially not the Academy (but I'm not innocent enough to think that they don't).
I also think Milenium Actress (yes, I cannot spell "Milenium") stands a strong chance. Put it this way, should all the animated films be live-action I think MA would undoubtably be the winner. I don't really see why "animated movie" should have a different critria to normal movies.
The arguments you use are what is most likely to happen. But just to go on public popularity is wrong (but something the Academy seems to be doing more and more recently - witness the farce that was Gladiator winning Best Picture a few years ago).
Being popular doesn't make it better - over here the Sun is the best selling paper, but it's a downmarket rag that wouldn't win any awards. I expect the same is true for America and the National Inquirer or something similar?
I've not seen any of this years likely animated film nominations, so I cannot comment on Nemo's suitability. I'm just pointing out - respectfully - that no one as seen Brother Bear (and I guess hardly anyone has seen Milenium Actress) so the race is still open. The fact is as it stands at the moment, people can only argue for Nemo to win based on Box Office - not the quality of Nemo over the all the other films. And that's wrong. And if it's not wrong, than it should be. I cannot say if Nemo deserves to win or not, but so far no-one has said Nemo deserves to win due to it's script, this particular scene, or the voice acting of any particular actor. I find that quite interesting.
Nobody should base the artistic worth of a movie on it's business. Not anybody of this forum and especially not the Academy (but I'm not innocent enough to think that they don't).
I also think Milenium Actress (yes, I cannot spell "Milenium") stands a strong chance. Put it this way, should all the animated films be live-action I think MA would undoubtably be the winner. I don't really see why "animated movie" should have a different critria to normal movies.
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Prince Eric
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How exactly did I negate my arguement? Just because Finding Nemo is a contender for Best Picture, doesn't mean it can win for Best Animated Feature Film. 
Also, Finding Nemo is the BEST reviewed film of the year with only one or two negative reviews nationwide (according to a local newspaper). What are the odds that Brother Bear will match the share the same critical success?
Also, if you want reasons why Finding Nemo should win, Here:
Voice Acting: Ellen Degeneres alone deserves a Best Supporting Actress nod, but since voice actors are ineligible, Finding Nemo winning would be a nice (and worthy) consolation prize.
Screenplay: The screenplay is innately original. (Please don't any one say it's not, because every imaginable plotline was used by the ancient Greeks, so Finding Nemo as close to original as they come.)
Art Direction: I thought I was in an I-MAX underwater experience. Everything was perfectly placed!
Also, Finding Nemo is the BEST reviewed film of the year with only one or two negative reviews nationwide (according to a local newspaper). What are the odds that Brother Bear will match the share the same critical success?
Also, if you want reasons why Finding Nemo should win, Here:
Voice Acting: Ellen Degeneres alone deserves a Best Supporting Actress nod, but since voice actors are ineligible, Finding Nemo winning would be a nice (and worthy) consolation prize.
Screenplay: The screenplay is innately original. (Please don't any one say it's not, because every imaginable plotline was used by the ancient Greeks, so Finding Nemo as close to original as they come.)
Art Direction: I thought I was in an I-MAX underwater experience. Everything was perfectly placed!
Prince Eric wrote:How exactly did I negate my arguement? Just because Finding Nemo is a contender for Best Picture, doesn't mean it can win for Best Animated Feature Film.
You also said
"While I would never say animated films are lesser than live-action films, you have to admit, they are two seperate entities. In case you didn't know, Entertainmnet Weekly says Finding Nemo is actually a contender for The Best Picture Award this year."
Obviously they're not two seperate entities if Animated Films can be nominated for Best Picture, and if Animated Films can be nominated for Best Picture, why should they have a seperate category? It's just nonsense and demeaning. Now if the award was for 'Best Animation' (ie. the actual animation itself, not the whole movie) I could see a point (just like live-action films have best lighting, best costume design etc etc.)
In fact, Best Animation would be an ideal award to add - that way it would cover lots of bases, including 100% animated films, as well as Gollum/Jar Jar Binks type creations.
I don't particularly want examples. I was just pointing out every reason people had given for it winning was based on it's business achievements. While I know it has been well reviewed etc, nobody mentioned this. You would think that if they were supporting Nemo for best Animated Picture, they would actually talk about the movie, not how much money it had made. It's almost as if they didn't think the actual film itself mattered compared to how much box office it had achieved.Prince Eric wrote:Also, Finding Nemo is the BEST reviewed film of the year with only one or two negative reviews nationwide (according to a local newspaper). What are the odds that Brother Bear will match the share the same critical success?
Also, if you want reasons why Finding Nemo should win, Here:
Voice Acting: Ellen Degeneres alone deserves a Best Supporting Actress nod, but since voice actors are ineligible, Finding Nemo winning would be a nice (and worthy) consolation prize.
Screenplay: The screenplay is innately original. (Please don't any one say it's not, because every imaginable plotline was used by the ancient Greeks, so Finding Nemo as close to original as they come.)
Art Direction: I thought I was in an I-MAX underwater experience. Everything was perfectly placed!
Not that this is a critisism against the people posting on this board, I see it more as a critisism of how commercalised the Academy Awards are (or are percieved) today.
All the reasons you have given a good reasons - but they're all reasons why a film (any film - assuming voice acting is 'acting') should win the Best Picture award. Being animated shouldn't matter.
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Prince Eric
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update on the Oscar race: thefilmexperience.net recently released their predictions. (This guy usually gets it right, even in the hard to predict catergories.)
The predicted three:
Brother Bear
Millenium Actress
Finding Nemo
(He notes that Disney will give Brother Bear a greater push for the win because it's their own creation.)
Alternates:
Sinbad: Legen of the Seven Seas
Tripletes of Belleville
Long Shots:
Looney Toons: Back in Action
Piglet's Big Movie
The Rugrats Go Wild
(He also notes that Piglet's Big Movie and The Rugrats Go Wild could slide in if the Academy doesn't want to honor the foreign films (again) and if they really have Sinbad: Legen of the Seven Seas.) If that's the case, then I think The Jungle Book 2 should be in the race.
The predicted three:
Brother Bear
Millenium Actress
Finding Nemo
(He notes that Disney will give Brother Bear a greater push for the win because it's their own creation.)
Alternates:
Sinbad: Legen of the Seven Seas
Tripletes of Belleville
Long Shots:
Looney Toons: Back in Action
Piglet's Big Movie
The Rugrats Go Wild
(He also notes that Piglet's Big Movie and The Rugrats Go Wild could slide in if the Academy doesn't want to honor the foreign films (again) and if they really have Sinbad: Legen of the Seven Seas.) If that's the case, then I think The Jungle Book 2 should be in the race.
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starlioness
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Prince Adam
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Not a good film. Definitely not as good as Monsters Inc. The storyline was stupid, as were the characters, and the emotional pull was a big fat 0. Pixar is starting to get an even bigger head than DisneyPrince Eric wrote:How exactly did I negate my arguement? Just because Finding Nemo is a contender for Best Picture, doesn't mean it can win for Best Animated Feature Film.
Also, Finding Nemo is the BEST reviewed film of the year with only one or two negative reviews nationwide (according to a local newspaper). What are the odds that Brother Bear will match the share the same critical success?
Also, if you want reasons why Finding Nemo should win, Here:
Voice Acting: Ellen Degeneres alone deserves a Best Supporting Actress nod, but since voice actors are ineligible, Finding Nemo winning would be a nice (and worthy) consolation prize.
Screenplay: The screenplay is innately original. (Please don't any one say it's not, because every imaginable plotline was used by the ancient Greeks, so Finding Nemo as close to original as they come.)
Art Direction: I thought I was in an I-MAX underwater experience. Everything was perfectly placed!
(and that's pretty big!)Defy Gravity...
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Prince Adam
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Sorry, but it just wasn't a good movie. Sure it was funny, but a movie can't be carried on humour alone. After a while I get tired of laughing and want something a bit more "in-depth". Even DTV sequels have more emotional pull than that...Luke wrote:Your review of Finding Nemo is undoubtedly the harshest I've seen. Sorry you didn't like it - you're certainly in the minority.
Defy Gravity...
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Uncle Remus
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my choices for Best Animated Film would be
Finding Nemo
Brother Bear
Sinbad
all the other movies i think are simply pathetic. none of them should get a nomination. somehow if Brother Bear doesnt win, it may have a chance in winning Best Song for one of the songs from the movie. too bad Treasure Planet song I'm Still Here wasnt nominated. it was a good song though. i think that the Wild Thornberry song shouldnt have even been in the catorgory.
Finding Nemo
Brother Bear
Sinbad
all the other movies i think are simply pathetic. none of them should get a nomination. somehow if Brother Bear doesnt win, it may have a chance in winning Best Song for one of the songs from the movie. too bad Treasure Planet song I'm Still Here wasnt nominated. it was a good song though. i think that the Wild Thornberry song shouldnt have even been in the catorgory.
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Prince Eric
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Well, it's official, Brother Bear wasn't a disaster at the box-office, so it's guaranteed a nomination along with Finding Nemo. However, while most of the major critics gave it positive reviews, critics in general panned it, which will really hinder its winning chances. Three movies are literally fighting for the third slot: Millenium Actress, Triplette s of Belleville, and Sinbad: Lengend of the SEven Seas.
Deadline for nomination entries to the Academy is tommorow, November 3, 2003. Expect a list of all the eligible films to come out some time soon after.
Deadline for nomination entries to the Academy is tommorow, November 3, 2003. Expect a list of all the eligible films to come out some time soon after.
Well, as it happened last year, it's looking like a bunch of obscure animated films may come out of the woodwork and be submitted, allowing the total nomination slots to be increased to 5. If this list is any indication, it would bode well for animated nominees. Jerry Beck himself had never heard of a couple of the films submitted last year, so there may be even more than the 16 he's got down so far. 
That said, if the nominees are 5, then I would say Finding Nemo, The Triplets of Belleville, Millennium Actress, Sinbad, and Brother Bear. Obviously those would be the top picks - unless MA is too obscure for the Academy voters - I dunno. In its place, I'd say either Back in Action or Knockin' On Heaven's Door.
What would be very interesting is if Finding Nemo was nominated for a Best Picture award. Would it still be nominated for Best Animated, as well? I'd much rather see it take the "runner-up" prize for Best Animated than to win over Return of the King, though. As much as I love animation, I'd rather see Jackson given props for his taxing and magnificent efforts this year. If you spend a decade of your life on something, I'd think that in itself would be enough to win a little gold statue or two.
That said, if the nominees are 5, then I would say Finding Nemo, The Triplets of Belleville, Millennium Actress, Sinbad, and Brother Bear. Obviously those would be the top picks - unless MA is too obscure for the Academy voters - I dunno. In its place, I'd say either Back in Action or Knockin' On Heaven's Door.
What would be very interesting is if Finding Nemo was nominated for a Best Picture award. Would it still be nominated for Best Animated, as well? I'd much rather see it take the "runner-up" prize for Best Animated than to win over Return of the King, though. As much as I love animation, I'd rather see Jackson given props for his taxing and magnificent efforts this year. If you spend a decade of your life on something, I'd think that in itself would be enough to win a little gold statue or two.
Life often leaves us standing bare, naked and dejected with a lost opportunity. Over the bleached bones and jumbled residues of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words: "Too late."
~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Prince Eric
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I don't think all those films on that site will be eligible. I remember last year's Pokemon movie and the great Metropolis were deemed uneligible. Besides, you have to have an L.A. or New York release to even be eligible or even considered.
*Important Note - We've seem to be overlooking the Annie Awards - the awards totally dedicated to achievemnt in Animation. Nomination are announced January 4, 2004. If any of the foreign films want to get nominated, they need Annie Support! just like Spirited Away last year.*
*Important Note - We've seem to be overlooking the Annie Awards - the awards totally dedicated to achievemnt in Animation. Nomination are announced January 4, 2004. If any of the foreign films want to get nominated, they need Annie Support! just like Spirited Away last year.*
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Jake Lipson
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Well, Brother Bear DESERVES the win, but Finding Nemo WILL win. It's had it wrapped up ever since May.
My Predictions
Finding Nemo (winner)
Brother Bear (definate nominee)
Sinbad OR Milennium Actress OR Triplets of Bellville OR Loony Tunes
My Predictions
Finding Nemo (winner)
Brother Bear (definate nominee)
Sinbad OR Milennium Actress OR Triplets of Bellville OR Loony Tunes
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Prince Eric
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I don't know about that...both are a close call for me. They were both really good...but I think Finding Nemo has a slight edge. Anyways, yeah, you're right, people were predicting Finding Nemo as the winner before it was even released, even before last year's winner was announced, even when it was slated for a Summer release date...Oh, well, hopefully 2004 will be a much more competitive year with a much more interesting race.
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Squirrel
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I want Brother Bear to win, personally. I loved it, and am already very fond of it, and prefer it...for various reasons I won't drone on about. But Nemo has the edge. In fact, the only film I forsee...as being able to take down Nemo is Les Triplettes des Belleville, which has equal critical praise and won at Cannes, among other places. Should they stick with three...
Finding Nemo
Brother Bear
Les Triplettes des Belleville
Though I'm backing Brother Bear, Finding Nemo was a very good film...and would be a very deserving winner. I hope to see Belleville...somtime during its release, if I can make it to a theater that'll be showing it. But Belleville would have a harder time taking down Nemo than Spirited Away had in taking down Lilo & Stitch (which I just know would've won had Spirited Away not come out of nowhere; and I thought Spirited Away was great, but still...)
If they go with five...
Finding Nemo
Brother Bear
Les Triplettes des Belleville
Looney Tunes: Back in Action
Millenium Actress (or) Sinbad
It's easier to predict three than five, as I feel FN, BB, and Belleville are and will be the leading three, regardless. I think Brother Bear has a better shot at song than feature (though, granted, song will be tough, what with Return of the King, A Mighty Wind, School of Rock, Down With Love...as possible competition).
I think, nomination-wise, Disney (and Pixar, in FN's case) will end up like this:
Brother Bear: Animated Feature, Song
Finding Nemo: Animated Feature, Original Screenplay, Score, Sound Editing (or Sound; but not both)
It'll be a while, I feel, unfortunately, before Disney wins the Animated Oscar for an in-house product. Next year, Home on the Range could be good, but would have to face such films as Shrek 2, The Incredibles, Shark Tale, and The Polar Express (motion capture is animation, right; yeah, I think so)...and I would prefer they won it for BB or Home, for one of their traditional films, just to make a case for the medium, but...
As for this year, I think Finding Nemo and Brother Bear will be animation's biggest representatives at the ceremony (and deservedly so). Each getting more than one nomination...and wouldn't that be awesome if they combined to sweep the music categories (Nemo for score, Brother Bear for song).
They are pushing "Great Spirits" for song, by the way, the one sung by Tina Turner. Presumably because her involvement with the project might give them a better chance at winning (though Phil would still get the trophy for writing it). I don't know. I was really hoping they would submit "On My Way" or "Look Through My Eyes," but their For Your Consideration site lists "Great Spirits" as what they're pushing for song, along with a song from Piglet's Big Movie, but I think Brother Bear will get in before Piglet does...
Anyway, I love the Animated category. I just like seeing animated films recognized, a part of the pageantry of film's biggest night. Because, like it or not, in the Academy (and in other ranks), there's a bias toward certain types of films (fantasy; though I truly hope Return of the King can break that, and think it will; and animation). Wasn't there some tension with the acting branch when Beauty and the Beast was nominated in '91?
There's a bias...and as good as many animated films are, they aren't going to be treated the same way by the Academy as live-action ones; and such different work can go into creating animated films, so they're on a different level, in some ways. So I think having their own category...to specially honor achievement in feature animation, is more a good thing. It could take away from animated films from ever grabbing a BP nod again (though, yes, they're seriously pushing Nemo for one).
But I'm fond of this category already. Lilo & Stitch, my favorite film, wouldn't have been present on Oscar night otherwise (as a side note, I felt it got shafted for not being nominated for song, for "Hawaiian Roller Coaster Ride"). And, loving animated films and Disney, it's fun to see them on the ballot...and to root for them, to know that an animated film will be crowned (even if it's in it's own special category and not the general, bigger one).
Finding Nemo
Brother Bear
Les Triplettes des Belleville
Though I'm backing Brother Bear, Finding Nemo was a very good film...and would be a very deserving winner. I hope to see Belleville...somtime during its release, if I can make it to a theater that'll be showing it. But Belleville would have a harder time taking down Nemo than Spirited Away had in taking down Lilo & Stitch (which I just know would've won had Spirited Away not come out of nowhere; and I thought Spirited Away was great, but still...)
If they go with five...
Finding Nemo
Brother Bear
Les Triplettes des Belleville
Looney Tunes: Back in Action
Millenium Actress (or) Sinbad
It's easier to predict three than five, as I feel FN, BB, and Belleville are and will be the leading three, regardless. I think Brother Bear has a better shot at song than feature (though, granted, song will be tough, what with Return of the King, A Mighty Wind, School of Rock, Down With Love...as possible competition).
I think, nomination-wise, Disney (and Pixar, in FN's case) will end up like this:
Brother Bear: Animated Feature, Song
Finding Nemo: Animated Feature, Original Screenplay, Score, Sound Editing (or Sound; but not both)
It'll be a while, I feel, unfortunately, before Disney wins the Animated Oscar for an in-house product. Next year, Home on the Range could be good, but would have to face such films as Shrek 2, The Incredibles, Shark Tale, and The Polar Express (motion capture is animation, right; yeah, I think so)...and I would prefer they won it for BB or Home, for one of their traditional films, just to make a case for the medium, but...
As for this year, I think Finding Nemo and Brother Bear will be animation's biggest representatives at the ceremony (and deservedly so). Each getting more than one nomination...and wouldn't that be awesome if they combined to sweep the music categories (Nemo for score, Brother Bear for song).
They are pushing "Great Spirits" for song, by the way, the one sung by Tina Turner. Presumably because her involvement with the project might give them a better chance at winning (though Phil would still get the trophy for writing it). I don't know. I was really hoping they would submit "On My Way" or "Look Through My Eyes," but their For Your Consideration site lists "Great Spirits" as what they're pushing for song, along with a song from Piglet's Big Movie, but I think Brother Bear will get in before Piglet does...
Anyway, I love the Animated category. I just like seeing animated films recognized, a part of the pageantry of film's biggest night. Because, like it or not, in the Academy (and in other ranks), there's a bias toward certain types of films (fantasy; though I truly hope Return of the King can break that, and think it will; and animation). Wasn't there some tension with the acting branch when Beauty and the Beast was nominated in '91?
There's a bias...and as good as many animated films are, they aren't going to be treated the same way by the Academy as live-action ones; and such different work can go into creating animated films, so they're on a different level, in some ways. So I think having their own category...to specially honor achievement in feature animation, is more a good thing. It could take away from animated films from ever grabbing a BP nod again (though, yes, they're seriously pushing Nemo for one).
But I'm fond of this category already. Lilo & Stitch, my favorite film, wouldn't have been present on Oscar night otherwise (as a side note, I felt it got shafted for not being nominated for song, for "Hawaiian Roller Coaster Ride"). And, loving animated films and Disney, it's fun to see them on the ballot...and to root for them, to know that an animated film will be crowned (even if it's in it's own special category and not the general, bigger one).
Meega na la queesta.
static & silence and a monochrome vision
static & silence and a monochrome vision
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Prince Eric
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My sentiments exactly: we need this category to get animated films mentioned. NOw, no matter what, at least one animated film each year will walk away with a trophy. As for the push for song for Brother Bear, they could have campaigned more than one song, but I guess they were afraid of splitting the vote. Finding Nemo could very well be nominated in both sound categories as well as Best Picture. I think Disney should start sending out FYC ads, because Sony Classics has already done so for Triplets of Belleville.