Censored Fantasia

[Luke]

They did the same thing did with "Song of the South" which is another banned Disney film.

<i>Song of the South</i> is not "banned" and has been released theatrically since Walt Disney's death, so I'm not sure what you're saying, but it doesn't sound right.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

...and no changes have been made to SotS, that I'm aware of.

[reyquila]

OMFG! That's HORRIBLE!

the black centuratte looks mentally retarded!

I dont see the problem !!!

[The Lizard King]

If that pic is for real- i'd say it's interesting to see unused animation.

It's for real... I have the entire uncut Pastoral Symphony in DD 5.0 on DVD.

TLK

[Fidget1234]

It's for real... I have the entire uncut Pastoral Symphony in DD 5.0 on DVD.

TLK

Where did u get the dvd? When was it released? I want one...i have a fantasia dvd-but i dont think its the "uncut" version...

[Escapay]

It's for real... I have the entire uncut Pastoral Symphony in DD 5.0 on DVD.

TLK

Where did u get the dvd? When was it released? I want one...i have a fantasia dvd-but i dont think its the "uncut" version...

Boot. Leg. Shhh...

Escapay

[Loomis]

This debate has been going on for a while, and I don't think there will ever be an answer to the question: "Is there such a thing as good censorship?" or more accurately "When is censorship not censorship?"

Whether the changes were made during Walt's time or not seem, to me at least, irrelevant. George Lucas made many changes to his films during his time, and continues to make changes. It hasn't stopped a great number of fans from objecting to them. Similarly, Spielberg recently changed E.T. to meet modern standards of political correctness (changing the guns to walkie-talkies, for example). However, the latter had a big difference:

Spielberg ensured that the original version was made available on DVD at some point, however brief.

My personal view is that editing any film for content based on how it might later be perceived is censorship, regardless of whatever noble reasons were given at the time. Are the depictions of black characters in the film demeaning? Yes, they are. Was it is the intention of the filmmakers to belittle the black population? Probably not, as the caricature was common at the time, and had begun to lose much of its meaning. It was more a riff on the black minstrels than it was on African Americans.

Again, all of this is irrelevant. The fact remains, the film has been changed. Films, like an other form of art, are historical documents. In years to come, we can gain some idea of what culture was like simply by viewing the popular (or not so popular) works of the day. We may not like what they have to say, or we may not agree with them, but we can accept that they were from a different time and place. If the editing continues, then it will mean that these films will continue to be "updated" until we lose all trace of what they were in the first place.

It seems that in recent years, Disney seems more concerned with preserving its family image at all costs, rather than preserving that which made it great. In Disney War, an excellent account of the Eisner years by James B. Stewart, there is a paragraph that mentions Walt wanted more from the Disney Studio. After viewing To Kill a Mockingbird, Walt commented: "I wish I could make movies like that...I've worked my whole life to create the image of what 'Walt Disney' is. It's not me. I smoke, and I drink, and all the things that we don't want the public to think about". In light of the anti-smoking censorship of some of the package features, such as Melody Time, I begin to question whether this is really what "Walt wanted".

[Lars Vermundsberget]

If the editing continues, then it will mean that these films will continue to be "updated" until we lose all trace of what they were in the first place.

Your whole post makes a lot of sense and I basically agree.

But, in the case of the "recreated" version of the "original" Fantasia on DVD, I also think it's quite clear that they did NOT lose the original Fantasia out of sight. This could be the closest to the original that has been seen for several decades.

But, no doubt, this "taking care of the family image" policy does quite a bit of damage here and there. Fantasia really should have been released as a "special archive edition" for those who care - and would be willing to pay a high price, perhaps.

[SATXMo]

Here's one more thing to nitpick over. The complete audio tracks featuring Deems Taylor's voice were unavailable for the the "roadshow" version that appeared on the DVD, so an actor dubbed ALL of the tracks. This took some getting used to, for me, and it still sounds kinda weird.

Purists, would you rather have Deems Taylor's some of the time, or none of the time, or none of the time?

[The Lizard King]

Where did u get the dvd? When was it released? I want one...i have a fantasia dvd-but i dont think its the "uncut" version...

As Escapay noted, I made it myself. PM me if you want to talk about how I successfully did it.

TLK

[punkoala]

http://www.widescreen.org/commentaries/ ... _apr.shtml

There's a link from the article to allow you to see some of the scenes with Sunflower.

In the case of Sunflower I think they are right to remove the character.

Though maybe they should have included the scenes as Deleted Scenes with a relevant warning. (Though this would mean a higher certification on the DVD, in my opinion).

It's strange that no one ever mentions the black crows in Dumbo.

[punkoala]

http://www.widescreen.org/commentaries/ ... _mar.shtml

Comments about Song Of The South from the same website

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Purists, would you rather have Deems Taylor's some of the time, or none of the time, or none of the time?

Having the original voice (DT) some of the time and the new voice some of the time would be quite problematic, so IMO a reasonable choice was made. BUT: It could easily have been included as an alternate audio track - we could have had both. So, that's hopefully one more thing we'll get in the ultimate archive edition some day.

[The Lizard King]

The Uncut Pastoral Symphony is available on eBay as a 16 mm print:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0044496344

$1.5K is a bit too rich for my blood, but I thought that I would pass along the information.

Clearly this 16 mm print quality is MUCH better than the PAL VHS digital dub/copy that is on the web, from which I made my DVD. If I could figure out how to digitize this 16 mm print to MPEG-2, I would be tempted to try to win this auction. (Hey, deathie mouse, do you have any suggestions?). However, in the end, I would have to sell about 200 DVDs just to break even (!), and I don't see myself being able to do that. Plus, I wouldn't know the first thing about storing the film properly to avoid "vinegar syndrome" to set in and ruin the print forever.

TLK

[TM2-Megatron]

The Uncut Pastoral Symphony is available on eBay as a 16 mm print:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0044496344

$1.5K is a bit too rich for my blood, but I thought that I would pass along the information.

Clearly this 16 mm print quality is MUCH better than the PAL VHS digital dub/copy that is on the web, from which I made my DVD. If I could figure out how to digitize this 16 mm print to MPEG-2, I would be tempted to try to win this auction. (Hey, deathie mouse, do you have any suggestions?). However, in the end, I would have to sell about 200 DVDs just to break even (!), and I don't see myself being able to do that. Plus, I wouldn't know the first thing about storing the film properly to avoid "vinegar syndrome" to set in and ruin the print forever.

TLK

The equipment to make a proper digital transfer of that film print would be much more expensive than the film itself would end up costing you on eBay, however if you're in or near a reasonably large city I'm sure there are places from which the equipment can either be rented, or actual smallish studios which would do the transfer for you to your specifications. None of these options would be cheap, though, making a transfer from film is a pretty expensive process.

My biggest issue with the "uncut" version of Fantasia on DVD isn't so much them taking out those characters, but rather how awful the image looks after that zooming... isn't there some way they could've blown up the necessary frames using the original, 35mm print and somehow spliced those into the movie instead of just digitally zooming in? At least then we wouldn't have got such a blurry image.

[DisneyDVDFAN]

The Uncut Pastoral Symphony is available on eBay as a 16 mm print:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0044496344

$1.5K is a bit too rich for my blood, but I thought that I would pass along the information.

Clearly this 16 mm print quality is MUCH better than the PAL VHS digital dub/copy that is on the web, from which I made my DVD. If I could figure out how to digitize this 16 mm print to MPEG-2, I would be tempted to try to win this auction. (Hey, deathie mouse, do you have any suggestions?). However, in the end, I would have to sell about 200 DVDs just to break even (!), and I don't see myself being able to do that. Plus, I wouldn't know the first thing about storing the film properly to avoid "vinegar syndrome" to set in and ruin the print forever.

TLK

The equipment to make a proper digital transfer of that film print would be much more expensive than the film itself would end up costing you on eBay, however if you're in or near a reasonably large city I'm sure there are places from which the equipment can either be rented, or actual smallish studios which would do the transfer for you to your specifications. None of these options would be cheap, though, making a transfer from film is a pretty expensive process.

My biggest issue with the "uncut" version of Fantasia on DVD isn't so much them taking out those characters, but rather how awful the image looks after that zooming... isn't there some way they could've blown up the necessary frames using the original, 35mm print and somehow spliced those into the movie instead of just digitally zooming in? At least then we wouldn't have got such a blurry image.

yes that would have been great i remember watching it for the first time on DVD and I couldn't figure out why it was zoomed in all of a sudden I never knew that the Scene was edited so i thought i had just bought an import or not gotten a good print ;( that was when I had now started collecting and I didn't know about this site etc of course nowi know better about censorship of films !

[The Lizard King]

The equipment to make a proper digital transfer of that film print would be much more expensive than the film itself would end up costing you on eBay, however if you're in or near a reasonably large city I'm sure there are places from which the equipment can either be rented, or actual smallish studios which would do the transfer for you to your specifications. None of these options would be cheap, though, making a transfer from film is a pretty expensive process.

I live near a large enough city, so that's not a problem. The problem is finding a facility that would be willing to do the digital transfer in the first place, as most would see that this is a Disney production and immediately say, "no, thanks," for fear of being sued and/or prosecuted by The Mouse.

TLK

[Beastboyravenz]

As one of the forum members wrote that sunflower wasn't the only black character edited out. Maybe all the centuarette's treated sunflower like Cinderella's step sister's treated her? And I really hope Disney decides to show this. Sunflower is a special character, I personality think she's cute in a funny sort of way.

[TM2-Megatron]

The equipment to make a proper digital transfer of that film print would be much more expensive than the film itself would end up costing you on eBay, however if you're in or near a reasonably large city I'm sure there are places from which the equipment can either be rented, or actual smallish studios which would do the transfer for you to your specifications. None of these options would be cheap, though, making a transfer from film is a pretty expensive process.

I live near a large enough city, so that's not a problem. The problem is finding a facility that would be willing to do the digital transfer in the first place, as most would see that this is a Disney production and immediately say, "no, thanks," for fear of being sued and/or prosecuted by The Mouse.

TLK

It's also possible that a large University or College would have the necessary equipment, and such institutions are usually more accessible than professional-level studios.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Oh my - if that could have been made available to us in good quality...