DVDizzy Forum

Not sure if this is new news or not, but Jim Hill - that ever "reliable" source of info - has posted this on his site. As you all know these guys are the ones behind "The Great Mouse Detective", "The Little Mermaid", and "Aladdin".

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/articles/01232004.1.htm

One studio insider told me that the Mouse House supposedly opted not to renew Ron'n'John's contracts because their last picture (2002's "Treasure Planet") had performed so poorly at the box office. "There's only one hard and fast rule in Hollywood, Jim," said this Disney vet. "You're only as good as your last picture. 'Treasure Planet' tanked. Which is why management thought that Ron'n'John were now expendable."

It is mostly rant, hearsay and opinion, but still - I thought it was something I should post here.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, I liked Treasure Planet! I thought it was a cool movie. I heard that Treasure Planet did better when it came out on DVD and VHS. I heard it sold a couple million copies. Forgot where I heard it from though.

I love Treasure Planet. It's a shame that it did so bad at the box office. Perhaps if Disney had advertised it as a kid's movie rather than a teenager's then it would've done better.

That sucks. I loved Treasure Planet, I wanted to see the movie when ?I heard "I'm Still Here" from the trailers.

Well, again we don't know whats going on, and it sounds like Jim Hill himself doesn't know.

Were they fired, or did they decided to leave or not renew their contract themselves? After all, they can't have been to happy after Disney's treatment of Treasure Planet. Disney's executives called the film a flop in media interviews days after its opening. Not a way to encourage loyalty in your employees.

As for Treasure Planet being the reason they were possibly fired - I'll admit Hollywood is a fickle place to work in, but they've still done a lot more for Disney than Treasure Planet "damaged" - a lot more if stories of executive meddling on Treasure Planet are even half-true.

Eddie Murphy had a run of "flops" before Disney choose him for The Haunted Mansion (I Spy, Pluto Nash and Showtime anybody?). Daddy Day Care wasn't out, and I doubt they choose him based on the popularity of the Donkey in Shrek - after all that was an animated role.

"Only being as good as your last film" isn't really true in Hollywood, especially if you have a fairly solid run of films behind you. But it does affect your position when negotiating new contracts.

Could another studio of offered them more money and more creative control? I think it's wrong to use the word "fired" when nobody knows the circumstances for their leaving.

These guys were the ones to rush in The Little Mermaid and Aladdin -- two of the Fab Four -- plus The Great Mouse Detective and Hercules, all of which were successful for Disney as pictures and/or franchises. Plus Treasure Planet did do well on home video shelves, and time will be kind to it. And these guys are expendable?

Wrong answer.

Even based on the "flop" of Treasure Planet, as Disney so rushed to label it, if I were them I would be doing everything in my power to keep these guys working happily for WDFA.

And goodbye to exellent DVDs for Aladdin and Mermaid. Hercules had a great laserdisc from what I've heard and can just be ported over to DVD sooner or later, but Mermaid and Aladdin didn't so it would have been of great value to them to have filmmaker involvement. Now I don't think we'll be getting commentaries, and since the directors no longer work for Disney I don't think they'll be really keen on coming back to work on the DVD extras.

More later.

"Hercues" had no special laserdisc, neither did "Aladdin" and "The Little Mermaid" ("Mermaid" had a making of featurette though, and the Japanese "Aladdin" had lots of extras).
But I'm sure they will return to record the extras for "Aladdin" and "The Litttle Mermaid", if they didn't do so already (in the case of "Aladdin"). "The Lion King" DVD has interviews with people who don't work for Disney anymore (Roger Allers and Brenda Chapman, for instance).

Anyway, it is a shame Disney let two of the most creative minds in animation history go. Congratulations! Let's hope they find a studio which care for their wonderful work.

I loved The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, The Great Mouse Detective, and Tresure Planet.

Well maybe they can move to Orlando and work with the former Orlando Animation folks now at Legacy Animation.

Jake Lipson wrote:
And goodbye to exellent DVDs for Aladdin and Mermaid. Hercules had a great laserdisc from what I've heard and can just be ported over to DVD sooner or later, but Mermaid and Aladdin didn't so it would have been of great value to them to have filmmaker involvement. Now I don't think we'll be getting commentaries, and since the directors no longer work for Disney I don't think they'll be really keen on coming back to work on the DVD extras.

I doubt it will affect Mermaid and Aladdin's DVDs extras... John and Ron would definitely participate in a 'making-of' of their two biggest films ever. Mermaid and Aladdin are considered a major mile-stone in the history of the company (especially Mermaid). Besides, it takes to read just one interview with them to realize how connected they are to these films and there's not a chance in the world that they would miss the opprotunity to make these DVDs as perfect as possible.

Oh, and I believe the DVD for Aladdin with all the remastering and the extras is 90% ready.

I personally love Treasure Planet. The "I'm Still Here" montage is perfectly done, and the growing relationship between Silver and Jim is so realistic and touching.

It would have probably been more warmly received if it hadn't been "Planet", but just "Island" (this is the only thing I don't like).

If this ends up being true, it's ridiculous to fire someone after one bomb, especially after they've created so many big hits previously. To me, this is about as stupid as if Spielberg was told he couldn't direct anymore after A.I.

But Jim Hill doesn't know if they have been "fired" or not. All he knows is that they have left.

We all know many other studios are once again jumping on the animation bandwagon hoping to get some of Pixar's market. We also know that any studio starting up an animation division will most likely want to headhunt staff. We also know Disney has a large number of films in development without John Musker or Ron Clements input. Importantly, all the other newly founded studios would know that too. Add to this Disney's poor treatment of Treasure Planet and it's more than likely (in my opinion) the two decided to move onto another studio and probably got themselves a better deal. There is, at this moment, no evidence that they were "fired".

I suppose these assumptions about Disney fit into today's media and spin-doctoring where everything can be neatly slotted into pre-defined boxes. Something is either black or white, good or evil - "If you're not with us, then you're against us." Well, the world isn't like that, and anyone who this it is, is either incredibly naive or misguided.

Now if even half of what I stated in the initial paragraph of this post is true, then Disney are not "evil". Eisner has not done his best to boot out well regarded talents just to be "greedy". (In fact, if Eisner was "greedy" wouldn't he do his best to keep them, being as they've turned over hundreds of millions of dollars for Disney in the past?). But of course, Disney management, including Einser are directly and indirectly for their leaving. But in shades of grey, not simple black and white. Which is, I think, important.

2099net wrote:Add to this Disney's poor treatment of Treasure Planet and it's more than likely (in my opinion) the two decided to move onto another studio and probably got themselves a better deal.

It's very likely, since neither of them was satisfied with the treatment "Treasure Planet" got from Disney.

I wonder what's going on with Kirk Wise and Gary Trousdale 'cause they were kinda stuck in the same boat as John & Ron. Their first movie for the company ("Beauty and the Beast") makes loads of money (in J&R's case, it's two movies: "The Little Mermaid & "Aladdin"), the next one barely crosses the $100 million mark ("The Hunchback of Notre-Dame" vs. "Hercules") and the next one is considered a flop or a 'disappointment' ("Atlantis: The Lost Empire" vs. "Treasure Planet").

In any case, I really hope that John and Ron are staying with the company. They make a great team together and have brought us some of the best Disney movies ever. It would be a real shame to see them leaving.

2099net wrote: Now if even half of what I stated in the initial paragraph of this post is true, then Disney are not "evil". Eisner has not done his best to boot out well regarded talents just to be "greedy". (In fact, if Eisner was "greedy" wouldn't he do his best to keep them, being as they've turned over hundreds of millions of dollars for Disney in the past?). But of course, Disney management, including Einser are directly and indirectly for their leaving. But in shades of grey, not simple black and white. Which is, I think, important.

Yeah, I think it is unfair to blame Eisner for everything. It is like terrorists - you can't seem to stub your toe these days without somebody screaming "suspected terrorist action". They aren't the cause of every disaster, Eisner is not the Devil.

Having said that, there seems to be an enviroment fostered at Disney right now that even the most talented and successful of them aren't staying. Although we only have a limited amount of info from Jim Hill (who was already hauled over the coals last week for misquoting David Stainton), it would seem that their departure was at least partly due to their own dissatisfaction with the state of affairs.

Guess we will have to wait and see if more info is supplied..

I love the works of Musker and clemments, bt i still not watches the teasure planet.

For me, it is a big loss fot the Disney Studios, i expect they can work together in another studio.

Thiago