DVDizzy Forum

Here are some photos of the pink elephant sequence from my TV. Also got some of the case and box

/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0142.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0143.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0144.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0145.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0146.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0147.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0148.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0149.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0150.JPG
/Users/Tom/Desktop/IMG_0152.JPG

(Ooops, anyone let me know how to paste pics on here?)

You know it's amazing how many people post the directory on their computer and expect it to come up, I'm not having a go at you because I've seen hundreds of people do it on different forums, it's weird. Anyway you need to upload the image to somewhere like www.imageshack.us then get the Direct URL and post [img]directurlhere[/img]

Now, I'm not an expert, but isn't it possible it was always intended to be cropped to some extent? After all, some film has rounded corners at the edges, such as this frame from a 1935 film


from http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/recordi ... cture.html

or this from a much film filmed much later:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anamo ... _sound.jpg

Is it possible Dumbo had such "rounded" corners, and the cropping is to remove them? The fact that the full extent of the frame was animated isn't proof it was always intended to be seen, as the Disney AOR thread shows.

I know not all films have rounded corners (and I actually think its the camera rather then the film that results in the rounding) but is it possible?

BK wrote:I mean, you only know there are bubbles because of that one theatre experience. It just seems kind of inconsequential?

What do you mean? I was unhappy with my Dumbo DVD and went to see the screening to check how the theatrical print looks. Especially I was curious to see the pink elephants scene. It is unforgettable.

You are free to doubt my memory, but I'm not visually or mnemonically impaired.

Do you have a screencap of what was cropped from Fantasia too?

I don't own Fantasia on DVD at the moment. I was unhappy with the framing. Here, too, one needs to compare the video transfer with a film print to say anything for sure.

Thanks 'yammiguy' - much appreciated

I guess I'm fighting a lost cause, but from what I've seen of the 'cropped' frames, it really wouldn't spoil my experience. Pan&Scan is far, far worse and thats been done to hundreds of films, just to make them fit widescreen TV's. Now that these classics are back in their 4:3 ratio, it makes the old Pan&Scan methods look horrible, so I really couldn't moan at a slight clipping...

2099net wrote:Is it possible Dumbo had such "rounded" corners, and the cropping is to remove them?

It may or may not be possible, but rounding would not cause so intense a cropping; besides, that would have been very probably taken into account already during the animation process. (And surely it was never thought that Dumbo could be projected with an alternative 1.85:1 aspect ratio.)

And, hypothetically, if the movie was meant to be shown with rounded corners, why shouldn't we see it so?

The fact that the full extent of the frame was animated isn't proof it was always intended to be seen, as the Disney AOR thread shows.

Why would the animators make an effort and draw the feet of the elephants entirely, and also animate a big bubble along the frame edges, if they were not meant to be seen? That would be a true "outside" joke.

It is more plausible that the edges of the bubble were meant to be seen by the audience as a sort of a metafictional joke.

OK, heres the links (sorry for the mix-up)











The colours are false due to the camera setting by the way

miniroll32 wrote: Pan&Scan is far, far worse and thats been done to hundreds of films, just to make them fit widescreen TV's.

You are confusing things. Pan&scan is used when widescreen films are "adjusted" for standard televisions (4:3), sometimes also CinemaScope movies for widescreen TVs (16:9).

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%26_scan

Now that these classics are back in their 4:3 ratio, it makes the old Pan&Scan methods look horrible, so I really couldn't moan at a slight clipping...

Dumbo has never been released on video in any other aspect ratio than 4:3 (as far as I know).

Thats what I mean - they're 'back' in the original aspect ratio.

miniroll32 wrote:OK, heres the links (sorry for the mix-up)

From the pictures I can see that your release is imagewise fully identical with mine. One should see the elephants' feet also when they "kneel down" — in this transfer one doesn't.

marlan wrote:

2099net wrote:Is it possible Dumbo had such "rounded" corners, and the cropping is to remove them?

It may or may not be possible, but rounding would not cause so intense a cropping; besides, that would have been very probably taken into account already during the animation process. (And surely it was never thought that Dumbo could be projected with an alternative 1.85:1 aspect ratio.)

And, hypothetically, if the movie was meant to be shown with rounded corners, why shouldn't we see it so?

The fact that the full extent of the frame was animated isn't proof it was always intended to be seen, as the Disney AOR thread shows.

Why would the animators make an effort and draw the feet of the elephants entirely, and also animate a big bubble along the frame edges, if they were not meant to be seen? That would be a true "outside" joke.

It is more plausible that the edges of the bubble were meant to be seen by the audience as a sort of a metafictional joke.

I have seen print of How to play football (Goofy short from 1944) and it had such round corners. With that said it doesn't meen that the movie goers shaw them.

Some people desperately need to download a life.

Or get laid.

Either solution will work.

Just ordered this from Amazon UK, and got a copy of Toy Story with it as part of the Buy One Get One Free. I'd already got a copy of Toy Story from Amazon a couple of weeks ago, so think I'll just send this new copy back, but say it's the original copy I bought, and get the money refunded. Which kinda works out like a free copy of Dumbo!

It's clear that in the first still, they are moving down. If there's a bubble, somebody obviously thought it wasn't meant to be seen and zoomed the frame in.

Either way, I think I prefer them walking around the edge of the frame rather than a bubble. It has that odd quality of the film acknowledging it's own AR.

Movies were always made to make sure the edges weren't really necessary. Furthermore, many (actually, I think probably all of them) dvds and Blu-rays don't show the outer edges of a film frame, simply because the outer edges aren't really meant to be seen (the outer edges being round are a good reason why).

KubrickFan wrote:Movies were always made to make sure the edges weren't really necessary.

Exactly. It's like working with a bleed area when designing a printed product.

KubrickFan wrote:Movies were always made to make sure the edges weren't really necessary. Furthermore, many (actually, I think probably all of them) dvds and Blu-rays don't show the outer edges of a film frame, simply because the outer edges aren't really meant to be seen (the outer edges being round are a good reason why).

I'd just like to say not all film stock does have rounded corners at the edge of each frame. In fact, when I was looking for visual examples, I found many more with straight, right-angled corners than rounded - including some films from the 1940s or earlier. I just put it forward as a possibility. I don't think "we" should second-guess decisions of restoration choices when we don't have all the facts.

2099net wrote:

KubrickFan wrote:Movies were always made to make sure the edges weren't really necessary. Furthermore, many (actually, I think probably all of them) dvds and Blu-rays don't show the outer edges of a film frame, simply because the outer edges aren't really meant to be seen (the outer edges being round are a good reason why).

I'd just like to say not all film stock does have rounded corners at the edge of each frame. In fact, when I was looking for visual examples, I found many more with straight, right-angled corners than rounded - including some films from the 1940s or earlier. I just put it forward as a possibility. I don't think "we" should second-guess decisions of restoration choices when we don't have all the facts.

I didn't mean that the rounded corners were there all the time. It's just one reason why the outer edges weren't seen often. Rounded corners or not, most of the time the outer edges weren't seen.

Just got my UK Dumbo now and all I can say is:

What a terrible menu system!

It's slow, unclear, counter intuitive to navigate. Do disc producers actually run tests to see how annoying and crappy they can make some of these Blu-ray menus?

I don't know why they can't just stick to the 3 column layout used by the majority of Disney Blu-rays. It clear, simple and consistant, unlike this mess.

2099net wrote:Just got my UK Dumbo now and all I can say is:

What a terrible menu system!

It's slow, unclear, counter intuitive to navigate. Do disc producers actually run tests to see how annoying and crappy they can make some of these Blu-ray menus?

I don't know why they can't just stick to the 3 column layout used by the majority of Disney Blu-rays. It clear, simple and consistant, unlike this mess.

I picked mine up this morning too. I notice they have now decided to number the Blu Rays. How annoying is that?!!! Why didn't they start doing that with Sleeping Beauty?

And I had to laugh at the booklet inside advertising the Disney classic collection like you used to get before telling us to "look for the numbers and collect them all!". It still has The Wild as number 46 but no Dinosaur. And what are the odds of ever seeing a release of number 8 Make Mine Music on Blu Ray? Erm about 10 billion to one probably seeing as we never got one on dvd. Had to get a scandinavian import. Still, off we go again with the collecting hey?

I never managed to have the the complete set of VHS tapes and I got within 3 films of having the full dvd collection before Blu Ray came along. What chance of ever being able to "collect them all" on Blu Ray?

I should just save myself a lot of misery (and shelf space) and help myself to those two big torrents doing the rounds on Pirate Bay. How could Buena Vista Home Entertainment possibly complain?