DVDizzy Forum

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The Stolen Earth

First, it;s time for me to state my obvious disappointment. NO JACKIE. I was certain I'd be changing my avatar this week to celebrate the return of Jackie's wit and wisdom. But sadly it was not to be. So I'm still stuck with my campaign avatar:



Oh well, there's always next week's episode (at a whopping 65 minutes) in which Jackie can appear - hopefully charging into the rescue.

Now for the other stuff - its going to be hard to write anything about The Stolen Earth without giving anything away (and boy what a cliffhanger - even I'm a little stumped at what's going to happen next week after that...) but I'll sum things up in bullet points:

* The Torchwood Team, Sarah, Luke & Mr Smith, Martha Jones and Rose Tyler do not have cameo appearances, they are totally integral to the plot. And just to keep Nandor and myself happy, Owen and Tosh are mentioned by Team Torchwood.

* The plot, including the Daleks speech patterns and actions, is very reminiscent of The Dalek Invasion of Earth and (dare I say it) it actually retroactively makes the silliest aspect of that story a little more acceptable. Get that DVD out Escapay, you'll probably want to revisit it!

* I'm not really one to comment on effects – I think Doctor Who can work just as well without excessive in-your-face effects (see this year's Midnight or last year's Blink for examples) but this episode easily tops the "I can't believe I saw that on a BBC show" league when it comes to effects.

* I'm "meh" on the whole Rose returns thing from a 'shipping point of view. But the cliffhanger (a triple cliff-hanger infact, although we 'think' we know Team Torchwood and Sarah Jane will survive – see my speculation as to why I have put 'think' - anything could happen) but really, what will happen to The Doctor in part two?

I see the DoctorWhoForum Forum Database has melted down. I'm not surprised. It really could be a total rug-pulling from under everyone's feet.

* Finally, we have millions of Daleks back, and they're proper Daleks too – none of this engineered from humans or half-human half-Dalek stuff. Proper Daleks from proper Kaled genetic stock.

OK now for my Speculation
If the Doctor does regenerate (which let's face it, he appears to be doing! and knowing that Tennant is in the Christmas Special at least, that leaves two (or three) possibilities:
1. This "Stolen Earth" Timeline will be reversed. Meaning that basically anyone can die and be resurrected before the end so can still appear in the spin-off shows.
2. The Doctor does regenerate and the Christmas Special is a "flashback".
3. The Doctor does regenerate and the Christmas Special is a multi-Doctor story (was Time Crash designed to re-introduce the concept?)

Of those, point 1 seems the most likely – although the production team do "lie" about the future of the show, its pretty much accepted that Tennant is the Doctor for the 2009 specials and there's certainly been no major rumours that he's left, which would require an almost supernatural level of secrecy if he has.

So my speculation is… Dalek Cann has "something on his back". Yes, I wonder if this whole Stolen Earth timeline hasn't been "created" by a time beetle – perhaps urging him to make a different choice when temporal shifting to escape from the Doctor in Evolution of the Daleks. And that's why Donna will save everything (perhaps at the cost of her own life) because Donna will somehow be able to know. That means once the time-beetle is destroyed, history will take its proper path once more.


And finally (mouseover to reveal)
Harriet Jones died a true hero. God speed Harriet. We knew who you were.

IGN sure liked Forest of the Dead

Oh wow, it's been like...three weeks since I last replied here. And SO MUCH has happened!!!

The Unicorn and the Wasp - it's a very well-done episode, and compared to the rest of the season, is a nice excursion from the very heavy stories that we've seen already. The Doctor/Donna moments were priceless, as usual, I loved when Donna thought he was motioning a song and just goes "Mammy!" then suggests "Camptown Races", along with the whole Harvey Wallbanger bit. I wasn't particularly sold on the whole "I had sex with a Vespiform and gave the baby up" angle, mainly because it was done in such a matter-of-factly way. And the Vespiform itself looked really good, but I don't think it was utilized as good as it could have been. All in all, the episode could have been better, but was fine with what was done. 7.5/10

Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead - one word is all I need to describe how I felt about this episode: omigod. (Well, technically, that's three words, but they're joined together so it's one!) Moffat has literally done it again. He's created an episode that is both gripping and suspenseful, all the while blending in themes and notions about the Doctor and his companions that is rarely touched upon in the series (both new and old). This episode really *made* Donna for me, she became much more than "haha, a fun companion for the Doctor!". River Song is still an enigma, but god, I can't wait to see if/how she'll develop in future stories (if Moffat revisits her during his tenure, which I hope he does). I felt really bad for Anita, and really felt for the Doctor when he said that whole "I liked Anita and you ate her". And the whole "I'm the Doctor, (something about the library) look me up!" was great (if confusing, since he tries not to be noticed all the time.) All in all, both episodes were excellent, and easily the best of the season (though my favorite is the Sontaran two-parter). I think the only thing that was really wrong with the episode was the unresolved "how did Miss Evangelisti get her restored face since she was only a data ghost that happened to get into the system?" It's likely that the computer "fixed" her, but they should have said that or something. All in all, a worthy 9.75/10

Midnight - technically this doesn't air yet in the US until next Friday (and not this Friday due to Independence Day), but I already saw it. Reminds me of Monsters are Due on Maple Street, except confined to a shuttle bus and with a more depressing, but poignant, ending. And the Professor looks a lot like Second Doctor (then again, it is his son!). Maybe they can do a multi-Doctor story and get him to play Second Doctor! I just wish we knew more about the monster/being/possessor that came into their shuttle, but that's probably just one of those unexplained phenomena that helps keep the mystery of Doctor Who. 8.5/10

Turn Left/The Stolen Earth/Journey's End - I've seen Turn Left, but I'm still processing it, along with The Stolen Earth (that cliffhanger had me shocked and my jaw just dropped. I'd have yelled "OH MY GOD!" if it wasn't 2 in the morning!). I don't think I'll be able to make an assessment until I've seen Journey's End. But I really loved "Turn Left" and its alternative "no-Doctor" world. And Donna's sacrifice was...well, worth it. It's going to pain me even more when she parts from the Doctor at the end of the series. And Harriet Jones, Former Prime Minister...godspeed.

Albert

Okay, knowing you are up to speed 'Scappy Doo. A couple of points

Escapay wrote: Midnight - technically this doesn't air yet in the US until next Friday (and not this Friday due to Independence Day), but I already saw it. Reminds me of Monsters are Due on Maple Street, except confined to a shuttle bus and with a more depressing, but poignant, ending. And the Professor looks a lot like Second Doctor (then again, it is his son!). Maybe they can do a multi-Doctor story and get him to play Second Doctor! I just wish we knew more about the monster/being/possessor that came into their shuttle, but that's probably just one of those unexplained phenomena that helps keep the mystery of Doctor Who. 8.5/10

In Midnight, the Doctor speculates that the "creature" is learning by its use of verbal copying. Of course, it moves on from copying later, and singles out The Doctor (presumably because his is the highest intellect) but as for the nature of the creature, do you think it was always "evil" or perhaps its demands at the end for The Doctor to be thrown out were the result of it "learning" fear, mistrust, paranoia etc from the human's on the shuttle? Or am I just over-analysing the episode?

As I said before, Midnight feels to me like an old school X-Files "monster of the week" episode, and like the X-Files before it, it does somewhat suffer from lack of coherent explanation at the end. However, unlike one of my common complaints, this ending felt in no way rushed or logically forced.

Turn Left/The Stolen Earth/Journey's End - I've seen Turn Left, but I'm still processing it, along with The Stolen Earth (that cliffhanger had me shocked and my jaw just dropped. I'd have yelled "OH MY GOD!" if it wasn't 2 in the morning!). I don't think I'll be able to make an assessment until I've seen Journey's End. But I really loved "Turn Left" and its alternative "no-Doctor" world. And Donna's sacrifice was...well, worth it. It's going to pain me even more when she parts from the Doctor at the end of the series. And Harriet Jones, Former Prime Minister...godspeed.

"…And yet you know nothing of humanity, and that will be your downfall."
- Harriet Jones [2005-2008]

For me, Turn Left emphasises THE most common theme of New Who – that the Doctor, through interaction with others, makes them better people. While this was perhaps strongest with the Eccleston Doctor (really, if you watch his stories he physically does very little, but inspires those around him, be they Dickens, Cathica or Pete Tyler (and of course Captain Jack) to be more honest, noble and heroic. As Rose says in The Parting of the Ways, the Doctor shows people there is a "better way".

Turn Left shows how much the Doctor's "chance" [?] meeting with Donna in the Runaway Bride led to and helped Donna realise her true potential. And that's why I have major issues with some people who claim Donna is not the same Donna who was in the Runaway Bride – that's the whole point of Donna coming back IMO. Was the Jackie of Love & Monsters when she confronts Elton the same Jackie from Rose who saw the Hendricks' explosion as an opportunity for a quick buck? Was the Captain Jack who sacrificed his life protecting the Doctor from the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways the same Captain Jack as was first seen in The Empty Child (who let's not forget was an intergalactic scam artist)?

In Turn Left, it should be noted Rose plays a very Doctor-ish role (not one that I feel suits her to be honest), but she has the same effect on Donna as the Doctor did. Rose makes Donna a better person. A person who will, ultimately make the supreme sacrifice.

Another thing to note about Turn Left is how well Catherine Tate plays the entire episode. I can't believe there were (and still are) people complaining about her! Look at both of the scenes inside the circle of mirrors. No companion, but no companion, could play those scenes as well as Catherine did. You really feel for her both times, especially the latter just before she vanishes. You can pinpoint the exact moment all her faith and building optimism leaves her as she hears Rose's soul crushing reply.

But also how to a greater extent, Turn Left is about how the Doctor has helped the whole of Britain (the World?) become "better people". The scenes with the Italian family being taken away by the British authorities and taken to "labour camps" work so well because not only does it show how much better "life" is with a Doctor, even if he doesn't personally inspire each and every individual.

While The Stolen Earth gave me multiple Whogasms (especially Daleks in the Torchwood Hub!) and the incident in the last couple of minutes, its clearly Turn Left that is the highlight of this series (so far!) – the 65 minute Journey's End promises much (perhaps too much?)

netty wrote:as for the nature of the creature, do you think it was always "evil" or perhaps its demands at the end for The Doctor to be thrown out were the result of it "learning" fear, mistrust, paranoia etc from the human's on the shuttle?

I think it was an intelligent creature who had to learn how to adapt to a new form (which is why it would repeat someone's speech, then say it exactly at the same time), and that it latched onto the Doctor because like you said, he was the most intelligent. However, I don't think it was learning fear/mistrust/paranoia, but that it was creating it in order to get what it needed (a host body first, then it would assimilate the most intelligent one, and have it kicked out later). It probably wanted the Doctor kicked out because it knew that once it acquired everything it needed from it, it wouldn't need the Doctor's mind (since the stewardess said "she's using his voice" or something, showing that it basically was assimilating what the Doctor knew and not necessarily what the Doctor was.)

Either that or maybe it was some cheeky teenage alien on the planet who decided to have a little fun with a random group of strangers that kept coming 'round to his little patch of darkness.

netty wrote:I can't believe there were (and still are) people complaining about her!

To me it sounds like they just can't separate character from actress. Catherine Tate is a wonderful actress with a wide range, but I think because of her show it's hard for most viewers to take her seriously when she does the heavy stuff in Doctor Who. Granted, I was a bit guilty of this too, at least during "The Runaway Bride", I kept expecting Donna to suddenly say "bovvered" or "Oh I can do that"!

netty wrote:But also how to a greater extent, Turn Left is about how the Doctor has helped the whole of Britain (the World?) become "better people". The scenes with the Italian family being taken away by the British authorities and taken to "labour camps" work so well because not only does it show how much better "life" is with a Doctor, even if he doesn't personally inspire each and every individual.

I never thought of it that way before!

netty wrote:(perhaps too much?)

It's RTD's swan song (more or less, he's still got to do the four specials) so I have a feeling he'll be trying to cram too much into the last episode, and as a result, it could hurt the story. He says it'll tie up a lot of loose ends and give the next showrunner a clean slate on everything, but there's still some issues that I think won't be dealt with because there won't be enough time or ways to work it into the finale. For example, what ever happened to Adam after his mother snapped her fingers? Has anyone ever discovered the Doctor's 1913 Journal of Impossible Things? And surely someone could have found Miss Foster's *still working* sonic pen.

Albert

Ok stupid question(s) time so bear with me

1) Is this show *somewhat* easy to start watching during the season it's currently in, or do I need to start from farther back if not the beginning?

I have an intrest in seeing the show just to see the whole fuss, but I have no clue when it's even on, never mind what channel

Cherny wrote:1) Is this show *somewhat* easy to start watching during the season it's currently in

As a standalone, the fourth season is very good television, but the last 3 episodes (Turn Left/Stolen Earth/Journey's End) relies on the viewer knowing what happened in the previous three seasons of the new series (as well as a little bit of general knowledge of the classic series, such as who certain villains and companions are) in order for it to make sense to them.

You may want to rent the first couple seasons to get into it (or just watch episodes online if you know where to look), as I don't know what channels they air Doctor Who on in Canada. However, I also I highly recommend the following episodes that work well as "standalones" separate from the entire season's arc and can best get a new fan into the series without them having to know so much backstory:
-Series One: "Rose" and "The End of the World"
-Series Two: "The Girl in the Fireplace", and "The Idiot's Lantern"
-Series Three: "Smith and Jones", "The Shakespeare Code", and "Blink"
-Series Four: "Voyage of the Damned", "The Fires of Pompeii", and "The Unicorn and the Wasp"

If you want to start from the classic series, I'd recommend the following to help you get acquainted with each Doctor:

First Doctor - "The Beginning Boxset" and/or "The Dalek Invasion of Earth"

Second Doctor - "The Moonbase" ("Moonbase is incomplete and only Episodes 2 and 4 are available in the "Lost in Time" set) and/or "The Mind Robber"

Third Doctor - "The Green Death" (which can be quite tedious the first time around, but is a rather good story on a re-watching) and/or "The Time Warrior"

Fourth Doctor - "The Talons of Weng-Chiang" and/or "The Ribos Operation" (part of The Key to Time season)

Fifth Doctor - "Earthshock" and/or "The Caves of Androzani"

Sixth Doctor - "Vengeance on Varos" and/or "Revelation of the Daleks". Or if you're up for it, "Timelash".

Seventh Doctor - "Remembrance of the Daleks" and/or "Ghost Light (from what I've read, as I don't have "Ghost Light" yet.)

Albert

Scappy, I fear you may have confused Chernabog_Rocks even more with all this talk of different Doctors!

I'm actually surprised Doctor Who isn't more well known in Canada - it is after all a co-production with the CBC (so I assume it shows on the CBC channel)

http://www.cbc.ca/doctorwho/

I feel I should add a few things to Escapay's post.

Firstly, Doctor Who is not your typical sci-fi show. If there's one thing it's not, its not a gung ho, all guns blazing type of show. It can do that - such as the Sontaran two-parter that took place this year - but even then the Doctor's solution is anti-violence (or as anti-violence as a action show can be - you've still got to have the odd explosion). So its not guns and granades in space.

Secondly, its as much of a Comedy as a Drama and is quite bonkers at times. I think of Doctor Who as more of a comic strip than a TV series. So in Doctor Who we have aliens that look like aliens, not just humans with bumpy heads. We have rhino men, flaps of skin with eyes and a mouth streached over a rectangular fame, clockwork robots disguised as 18th Century French nobels and more. Imagination is the key. Sometimes too much imagination, but it always tries, even if sometimes it fails.

Alas, you won't be able to get anywhere close to the full benefit if you only see the final episodes from Series 4 as it's basically the last 4 years being tied up with a spectacular epic ending.

However if you can I would recommend these episodes as teasers:

The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances two parter
Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways two parter
The Christmas Invasion special
School Reunion
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit two parter
Blink (oh god, I strongly recommend Blink even though the Doctors hardly in it)

Scaps all of your side notes confused me greatly

I checked our t.v guide and we have BBCCAN and there's no listing for Doctor Who from what I've seen. I also checked any channels for CBC and found nothing.

It seems the only shows I can find are Dr. Phil and Doc

Thanks Netty for the additional information

**UPDATE** I assume Spoilers note isn't needed?

So I finally finished Fires of Pompeii and here's what I have to say:

Best show I've seen all year

Of course a bit of bias since I'm interested in Pompeii

My only complaints are geared more towards my computer being craptastic and the fact the video appeared to be LQ. However the only bad thing I can say about the episode is the fact I couldn't keep up with the Doctor when he speaks really fast in a couple parts (example: When he's interrogating the stone woman)

I loved so much of the dialogue so I'm stuck with only one quote in my signature for now

If I could I would have added this quote:

Donna: You fought her off with a water pistol, I bloody love you.

There's more quotes than that but I don't want to ramble on just one thing.

Moving on, even though I didn't catch their name I loved the big Magma/Stone "Gods" they had a neat look to them just wish I had caught what they were doing. Pretty sure it had to do with changing the Earth to a replica of their lost homeworld?

The story was really well done I think, I enjoyed how well the show was able to juggle the different emotions it was able to be comedic, serious, sad, a little more comedic. The ending was very well done, I'm glad the Doctor stepped in and helped that family.

All in all, if the rest of the epiodes are as good as this one or better I can see myself becoming a fan (And I don't need to be inhaling volcano vapors to see that future )

Another convert Escapay? Perhaps one day I will get a cult!

I'm pleased you liked it CR! I strongly suggest you watch Blink next! Even though the Doctor's hardly in it because it has everything you will like: dialogue, comedy, scares and monsters!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7490408.stm
RTD answers the public's questions. One reply that stands out is that once RTD leaves, he is not going to write any more episodes. A great shame I feel.

Well I've just watched the Series 4 finale, and all I can say is "Oh my God".

I don't think it totally lived up to part 1, but was still light years ahead of last year's climax. Without wanting to give anything away I will say that the episode was filled with so many glorious scenes and interactions between characters. Some of the dalek stuff was perhaps ever so slightly lacking that bit of added depth and reason and as far as Davros, there was a slight element of "wha?" wrapped up with it all in my opinion. What happens to the Doctor and Donna is perhaps slightly undexplained, or explained too quickly as an glancing remark (My only major gripe with the show in general that complex sciencey sounding things sometimes just arent explained quite in enough detail)

Whilst not quite as special effects heavy as the first, there was still some CGI of the finest quality and other effects.

But the main bit of the episode is the climax. After everything is saved there is the most gut-wrenching end to the episode. Anyone who says there is no fate worse than death should watch this, its a fate which is far sadder than death could ever be, for numerous reasons. Without a doubt one of the most emotional and truly heart-wrenching things I've seen on TV in a long time, and really sadder than death.

So as Catherine Tate bows out, all I'll say is that she has been in my mind the finest companion of all three in my opinion. Stunning scenes prove what a fantastic actress she is, and all those still knocking her need to get a grip.

Well, like "the Body" above I have mixed feelings. No way could this have lived up to it's hype. And like lots of other 2 parters in this and other shows (think Best of Both Worlds in ST: TNG for example) it couldn't really live up to part one.

But it was still fantastic. Yes, it was crazy. While Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead may have been "hard" sci-fi, this was nothing but pure fantasy. Also like Ichabod, the Daleks ultimate plan was - well - stupid (but not as stupid as their Dalek Invasion of Earth plan. Oh, or the Chase. Oh, or their so called Dalek "Masterplan" - Daleks really are bad planners! Especially in the 1960s). But seriously, it was a little poor, and then to seemingly "demote" Davros makes me wonder why he was brought back.

Still I love it when Daleks go crazy and this had super crazy Dalek Caan and interference-hit Daleks go crazy so I enjoyed that.

As for the ending, well, dramatically is it worse than if that person was to die. More so due to that person's acting, especially that person's final on screen scenes I feel.

(And no its not Rose. I couldn't care less about Rose, but the 'shippers will no doubt be squeeing with happiness)

Now I'm going to go back and watch Turn Left again, perhaps the most well acted, directed and written 50mins of television I've seen this year. The highlight of the 4 series to date.

Just finished watching Blink and here's my reaction:

Despite taking 2 hours to watch (curse you computer! *shakes fist*) it was well worth the numerous times I had to refresh youtube.

While I did miss the Doctor being in the lead role, it was also nice because it was someone different who had no idea what was going on or who the Doctor was either

So I can officially never go near Statues for a while, that was just too creepy to describe in full. I loved the breaking of the fourth wall, how the Angels wouldn't move even if the character had their back to them when we the audience could see them. I thought it was clever, whether it was intentional or not I'm not too sure. I actually jumped a number of times, a first for me when it comes to watching a t.v show.

The story was really good, as was the athmosphere you could cut that tension with a knife!

Also keeping true with the comedy there were a few quotes that made me laugh such as:

The Doctor: Fascinating race, the Weeping Angels. The only psychopaths in the universe to kill you nicely. No mess, no fuss, they just zap you into the past and let you live to death. Rest of your life, used up, blown away in a blink of an eye. You die in the past and in the present they consume the energy of all the days you might have had. All your stolen moments. They're creatures of the abstract, they live off potential energy.
Billy: What in God's name are you talking about?
Martha: Trust me, just nod when he stops for breath

as well as this one:

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff!"

A definite 10/10 for me Now, which episode to watch next..........

Cherny wrote:Now, which episode to watch next..........

"The Girl in the Fireplace". Trust me, you'll love it.

And I haven't seen the finale yet, so I had to skip everyone's posts about it (though ichy's signature is unavoidable and while I know that Donna's tenure ends this season, I still don't know how...). Ugh, the sacrifices one makes when on holiday...(still on it, just on some free time before going to bed)

Albert

Did Torchwood S2 kill off your favourite characters? (Yes). Are you sorry Doctor Who has finished apart from four 60 minute specials until 2010? (Yes). Are you inconsolable that what with the Doctor Who semi-hiatus and the 5 episode Torchwood S3 news, you'll miss your visits to the Whoniverse? (Yes.)

Then worry no longer, for S2 of The Sarah Jane adventures is about to start in little over a month.

See here for teases
http://lifetheuniverseandcombom.blogspo ... i-res.html
Doctors, Clowns, Mediums, Sontarans, Wormwoods, Graskes and Lethbridge-Stewarts. Oh my!

2099net wrote:Did Torchwood S2 kill off your favourite characters?

I just watched Exit Wounds again. Started crying the moment Tosh got shot. It's still amazing to me how they made sch a powerful episode, it gets me every time...
Anyway, happier subject. I'm starting to get excited for SJA. I liked the first series, though there's obviously room for improvement. Not sure what to think of Rani, but I'm sure she'll be fine. Happy to know Maria does get a last episode, so her leaving isn't all that sudden. Also great to see Mrs. Wormwood will be back, and with the Sontarans no less. And the Graske are always fun (hmmm, maybe still working for the Trickster?).
Kind of wondering about the Tennant-cameo in the first ep... I think it's just some footage of him returning Sarah home after Journey's End.

Daleks again the darn squids just don't know when to give up..

Personally, I don't think the blue light[s] will be a dalek.

netty wrote:Did Torchwood S2 kill off your favourite characters?

No. I loved Tosh and Owen, but couldn't really call either of them my favorites.

netty wrote:Are you sorry Doctor Who has finished apart from four 60 minute specials until 2010?

Yes.

netty wrote:Are you inconsolable that what with the Doctor Who semi-hiatus and the 5 episode Torchwood S3 news, you'll miss your visits to the Whoniverse?

Not really. I've still got a good deal of classic stories that have yet to be purchased and watched! Plus, there's always the wonderful world of fanfiction to keep me occupied (and have a few laughs as well).

netty wrote:The Sarah Jane adventures is about to start in little over a month.

Woohoo!

netty wrote:See here for teases
http://lifetheuniverseandcombom.blogspo ... i-res.html
Doctors, Clowns, Mediums, Sontarans, Wormwoods, Graskes and Lethbridge-Stewarts. Oh my!

The Brig! Woohoo!
Sontarans! Woohoo again!
The DOCTOR! Wooh- wait, what???

I'm sure it's a cameo, as others have suggested. But it would be interesting if he was part of the story instead of just a cameo.

I'm still agonizing over not knowing what happened in "Journey's End". Our Doctor Who marathon is on a temporary hiatus this weekend, and we've still got a good deal of Series 3 to watch*, and Kram and Jane want to watch Series 4 all the way through again as well!!! AAAGGGHHH! I'm gonna go crazy not knowing what happens!!!

Albert

*well, in my case, re-re-re-re-watch as I've already sat through the complete season thrice - the first time in Summer 2007, the second time in early February 2008, and a third time in late March/early April 2008, along with randomly watching the "Human Nature/Family of Blood/Blink" disc several times over on its own...