DVDizzy Forum

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:29 am**

karlsen wrote:But they could release it in a way that it does not look like a cheap copy of the first serie.

Now it looks like I have lost the ribons for a few of them, or worse - made cheap copies.

Ciaobelli wrote:Its true that the content is more important. Its ture that we can make our own bands and paint the back of the tin, but why should we. As far as I know we are paying them to do it. It seems that Disney is using the "all that matters is the shorts" mindset against us, they just say"what the heck they only care about the shorts anyway".

Yes, so would you be willing to pay more for the bands and better tins? Would you pay $35 or $40 per tin?

Again, for only $3 more, you are getting one heck of a bargain with the Treasures sets.

It doesn't come cheap to restore vintage shorts. And it's (probably) not cheap to get all the legal issues sorted out to release the first week of The Mickey Mouse Club. Considering the limited number of set, which absolutely cap the returns Disney can make on these sets, I still think that

[a] You are getting a bargain (sans, perhaps Pluto) and
The Content is undoubtably the single most important thing about the sets.

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:47 am**

I am sorely disappointed with all of the bad packaging decisions for Wave 4, including that awful picture of Pluto with the orange ears. Packaging IS important. Disney is all about making things that are visually pleasing. That's what everything they do comes down to, or should come down to, and they dropped the ball big time on this one. I despise the idea of bootleg DVDs (or bootleg anything else), partly because it is morally wrong, but partly because the packaging is always inferior. I want my movies to look nice and presentable even when I am NOT watching them. Their bad decisions with Wave 4 only come because somebody has a low opinion of the buying public. "They won't notice, and if they notice they couldn't possibly care. They're too dumb too care." If you think I'm being mean in this post I'm actually refraining from expressing my full disappointment.

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:48 am**

2099net wrote:Yes, so would you be willing to pay more for the bands and better tins? Would you pay $35 or $40 per tin?

Again, for only $3 more, you are getting one heck of a bargain with the Treasures sets.

It doesn't come cheap to restore vintage shorts. And it's (probably) not cheap to get all the legal issues sorted out to release the first week of The Mickey Mouse Club. Considering the limited number of set, which absolutely cap the returns Disney can make on these sets, I still think that

[a] You are getting a bargain (sans, perhaps Pluto) and
The Content is undoubtably the single most important thing about the sets.

For the first thing I don't know what you are thinking about when you say "Again, for only $3 more, you are getting one heck of a bargain with the Treasures sets". What would I have gotten for $3?

Then you are totaly correct that there are cost involved in this, but I doubt the first wave lost money so this is just a question about making as much money as possible. The first tins was a little more pricy then the last ones and I would rather pay that more to get a real product then something that looks fake. If the aparence was of no importance to me I would just borrow it from a friend and make a copy of all of it. (that is legal here in Norway, for now). But I do have several hundreds of original DVDs because the looks of it is important.

These tins has a list price of $32.99 (but sells for $24.74 at Amazon).

I would be more then happy to have a list price of $40 (and a sale price of $32 on Amazon) if Disney realy need $7 to make a paper band and print the tins properly.

But the most important thing is that nobody notice that there are something completely wrong here. Disney are making these cheaper and cheaper every year.

* Last wave had removed the number in the tin
* This wave had no bands and no print in the tins back.
* ...... (what will be next? No tin?)

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:57 am**

I just has a thought about the tins for wave 4!

Could it be possible that these are old tins that were made back when the wave 3 tins were made!

What made me think think think this is that the 'glitch' on the 'D' in Disney has not been fixed! Surely if these tins were new, Disney would have fixed the glitch from the wave 3 tins, when the wave 4 tins came to be made!?

Also the image printed on the back (or stuck on the back in the case of W4 are doen after production, as is putting the picture on the front, and also like last year no numbers on the tins!

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:41 am**

karlsen wrote:
2099net wrote:Yes, so would you be willing to pay more for the bands and better tins? Would you pay $35 or $40 per tin?

Again, for only $3 more, you are getting one heck of a bargain with the Treasures sets.

It doesn't come cheap to restore vintage shorts. And it's (probably) not cheap to get all the legal issues sorted out to release the first week of The Mickey Mouse Club. Considering the limited number of set, which absolutely cap the returns Disney can make on these sets, I still think that

a] You are getting a bargain (sans, perhaps Pluto) and
b] The Content is undoubtably the single most important thing about the sets.
For the first thing I don't know what you are thinking about when you say "Again, for only $3 more, you are getting one heck of a bargain with the Treasures sets". What would I have gotten for $3?

Your getting rare, limited appeal product, which has (presumably) had time and effort on remastering. Remastering and restoring isn't cheap. 2 hour films that have been restored can cost millions of dollars. The Treasure tins typically have 4+ hours - about twice the length of a traditional movie.

karlsen wrote:Then you are totaly correct that there are cost involved in this, but I doubt the first wave lost money so this is just a question about making as much money as possible. The first tins was a little more pricy then the last ones and I would rather pay that more to get a real product then something that looks fake. If the aparence was of no importance to me I would just borrow it from a friend and make a copy of all of it. (that is legal here in Norway, for now). But I do have several hundreds of original DVDs because the looks of it is important.

These tins has a list price of $32.99 (but sells for $24.74 at Amazon).

I would be more then happy to have a list price of $40 (and a sale price of $32 on Amazon) if Disney realy need $7 to make a paper band and print the tins properly.

But the most important thing is that nobody notice that there are something completely wrong here. Disney are making these cheaper and cheaper every year.

* Last wave had removed the number in the tin
* This wave had no bands and no print in the tins back.
* ...... (what will be next? No tin?)

No tin doesn't bother me. I collect comics. Comics have never remained consistant in design or quality. It goes with collecting an ongoing series - presentation changes. If no tins means the sets continue to come out, I don't care.

Its not really a question of if Disney make money or not. The question is would they make more money by dropping the Treasures and committing the same manpower and resources. And they undoubtably could.

For example it takes a total of 10 people 6 months to compile a Treasures tin. It also takes 5 people 3 months to compile a "Cartoon Shorts featuring Chip N Dale, or Donald, or Goofy".

What's likely to make Disney more money. 4 cheaper Cartoon Shorts discs, with no Limited Issue considerations and a browser friendly purchase price (and perhaps no new restorations) or a single Treasures set? If you were in charge of the company, what would YOU rather have your employees spending their time on?

I think the only reason we are getting these sets is because Disney (and Eisner, who everybody hates so much) has the foresight to know that their archives need preserving in the first place, and it willing to recover some of the money on Treasures sales.

Posted: **Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:42 pm**

I think that this is a debate on whether you care about packing in general or dont at all. There is no debate at all that people DO like fancy packing. Not everybody, but a lot do.

2099net wrote:Your getting rare, limited appeal product, which has (presumably) had time and effort on remastering. Remastering and restoring isn't cheap. 2 hour films that have been restored can cost millions of dollars. The Treasure tins typically have 4+ hours - about twice the length of a traditional movie.

I don't thing everything here is remastered at all. Lots of these were presented on Laserdisc. But you are correct, we are getting lots of great cartoons. But that is not the topic here. I have never sead that it was. You already asked me if I were willing to pay $2-$7 more for these and I sead yes. I realy would. So the disgussion about the cartoons itself are not a topic.

Its not really a question of if Disney make money or not. The question is would they make more money by dropping the Treasures and committing the same manpower and resources. And they undoubtably could.

I don't belive you there. Disney would never make the same amount of money if they droped the quality of these anything more then they have done now. I am even not sure if I will continue buying these if this bad tins continue. I have all 14 tins and some of them I would never have bought had it not been for the tins. I buy them to have a complete collection.

For example it takes a total of 10 people 6 months to compile a Treasures tin. It also takes 5 people 3 months to compile a "Cartoon Shorts featuring Chip N Dale, or Donald, or Goofy".

This is just fantasy numbers and would be totaly wrong to coment on them. Someone here could get the wrong idea and think that they was for real.

2099net wrote:I think the only reason we are getting these sets is because Disney (and Eisner, who everybody hates so much) has the foresight to know that their archives need preserving in the first place, and it willing to recover some of the money on Treasures sales.

That is true, Eisner is not that stupid. Ofcause he knows that he has to preserve the only material that he has got that people still buy.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:46 am**

karlsen wrote:I don't belive you there. Disney would never make the same amount of money if they droped the quality of these anything more then they have done now. I am even not sure if I will continue buying these if this bad tins continue. I have all 14 tins and some of them I would never have bought had it not been for the tins. I buy them to have a complete collection.

We're not quite in the same boat, then.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate good packaging and wouldn't mind paying a bit more for these sets (I seriously doubt they save that much on the "cheapening" we've seen now, though).

But a consistent lineup of high-quality tins is far from the reason why I buy these sets.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:01 am**

karlsen wrote:
Its not really a question of if Disney make money or not. The question is would they make more money by dropping the Treasures and committing the same manpower and resources. And they undoubtably could.
I don't belive you there. Disney would never make the same amount of money if they droped the quality of these anything more then they have done now. I am even not sure if I will continue buying these if this bad tins continue. I have all 14 tins and some of them I would never have bought had it not been for the tins. I buy them to have a complete collection.

Ok, taking away the fantasy numbers, lets assume Disney get $20 from each Treasure set sold (which they most likely don't, as the retailer and distributor, plus the talent, plus the compilers, plus the new supplement creators and the manufacturers get their cut).

Pluto has 110,000 copies made. The maximum profit Disney can make is 110,000 x $20 : about $2.2m. In order to get this $2.2m they have a team of people working for 6 months to a year compiling, filming the supplements, manufacturing and distributing the set. Maybe even a few new restorations are done and legal issues are cleared up (thinking mainly of the MMC set for this one).

On the other hand, they can release a "Walt Disney's Classic Cartoon Favorites: Volume 1 - Starring Mickey" with a quarter of the content, no new restorations, and for half the price. The low price is shopper friendly (believe it or not, most people don't search the Internet for DVDs, they browse shops and buy what takes their fancy). That, combined with the non-limited pressing means they will probably sell many times as many as the total Pluto set, especially over a long period of time.

I also don't think its a fantasy to suggest that all 4 of the "Walt Disney Classic Cartoon Favorites" could have been compiled by the same amount of people in the same time as one single Treasure set - they're only slapping a small number of pre-restored, pre-mastered, pre-cleared cartoons on each set, there's no new supplements, no tin manufacturing to organise, and minimal, if any, research.

So releasing the shorter cartoon compliations will most likely generate a lot more money for the same investement by the company financially and time wise. Meanwhile, when the work on the WDCCF discs has finished, the same people can work on the multi-million selling Incredibles disc (or whatever) thus bringing Disney more income for investment, while the Treasures lot are stilll working on the other sets.

Yes, I don't know this for a fact, and all the figures and statements are nothing more than guesswork, but the fact remains the same. In the US, Disney has capped the profit from the Pluto Treasures at $2.2m (or most likely much less), but the time and manpower taken to create the Treasures set takes just as much as to create any number of Disney DVDs which undoubtably generate more profits for the company.

If all of the above is totally wrong and totally fantasy, the fact remains other DVDs could be released in place of the Treasures and generate more money.

Tin or no tin, the $3 higher RRP is still an incredible bargain. Maybe in light of complains this year, Disney will put the price up next year to allow for packaging to be improved. But I suppose if they did that, people would complain even louder.

As I say, as a long time collector, the changes don't bother me, because virtually any series I have collected has changed or been inconsistant over its lifetime. Its a fact of collecting most things, from comics to action figures, to other DVD collections to books.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:22 am**

I've avoided posting too much in the thread, but it seems to be me that the opinions of people are split similarly to a previous thread, about the names of DVDs e.g platinum, masterpiece, collector's etc. (BTW we are not starting that arguement up again!

)

It seems that there are some who care to much about the packaging than the content! Don't get me wrong the tins are a nice addition, the limited edition individual numbering are alos a nice touch, but at the end of the day, it 's the content that is the most important! Some of the cartoons or TV episodes or interviews etc. are golden material from decades ago, in most cases beautifully and painstakingly restored, unedited, uncensored, some of these things probably were extremely nervous of releasing! Some things which have not seen the light of day or have been seen by the general public's eyes in years.

Many disney fans for years have no doubt campaigned and pleaded to disney to get these gems released! Some no doubt thought that such brilliant pieces of film such as 'Der Feuhrer's Face' or the unedited version of 'Steamboat Willie' would ever be released.

Disney really have given something to the fans and the collector's, they've abandoned their kid friendly crap and given us collections to make every disney fan proud. And the fact that people's opinion all of this is not as important as the DVD coming in a nice shiny tin in my opinion is quite franky pathetic!

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:02 am**

2099net wrote:Tin or no tin, the $3 higher RRP is still an incredible bargain. Maybe in light of complains this year, Disney will put the price up next year to allow for packaging to be improved.

Again you are refering to a $3 that should be a bargain. I have asked before and I will ask again: Where do you take this from?

2099net wrote:As I say, as a long time collector, the changes don't bother me, because virtually any series I have collected has changed or been inconsistant over its lifetime. Its a fact of collecting most things, from comics to action figures, to other DVD collections to books.

Ok, so you say that since it has been inconsistant that many times we should just be pleased with it and dont complain even if we realy feel cheated? That logic does not go with me.

-----------------

But once again you make a long statement that the things that we do get are so great that we should not complain. That would be true if I demanded better tins with no higher costs, but I don't. I have several times stated that I would be more then happy to pay $7 more pr tin to get the same quality tins that we got last round (or even first wave). Everybody should agree that $7 is more then enough to make a paper band and a better tin, so why talk about the content? It is out of topic to talk about that as long as I sead that I would gladly pay more. Then I would give Disney an even higher income.

Then in respond to me not buying these anymore I should modify it a little. I would always consider buying the cartoons but I would never have bought Mickey Mouse Club forinstance. I have never seen that before, and I will probably only watch it once (or maybee not even that). The reason why I bought it was just because of the tin, and to complete my collection. I know a lot of people could care less but then this threed is not for you. This threed is for those that realy does not like that threetment. If you are happy and satisfyed then good for you. I am not, and I never will be just because others are.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:25 am**

karlsen wrote:
2099net wrote:Tin or no tin, the $3 higher RRP is still an incredible bargain. Maybe in light of complains this year, Disney will put the price up next year to allow for packaging to be improved.
Again you are refering to a $3 that should be a bargain. I have asked before and I will ask again: Where do you take this from?

The suggested retail price for the Treasures sets ($32.99) is $3 more than a "normal" Disney DVD at $29.99.

karlsen wrote:
2099net wrote:As I say, as a long time collector, the changes don't bother me, because virtually any series I have collected has changed or been inconsistant over its lifetime. Its a fact of collecting most things, from comics to action figures, to other DVD collections to books.
Ok, so you say that since it has been inconsistant that many times we should just be pleased with it and dont complain even if we realy feel cheated? That logic does not go with me.

No but I think it is incredible that the last two waves have included some of the most sought after stuff, with less repetition from previous LD releases (such as the never released "Victory Through Airpower" in Wave 3 and the non-LD released Mickey Mouse B/W shorts in this waves release) and all people do is complain about the packaging.

In the real world, packaging changes.

karlsen wrote:But once again you make a long statement that the things that we do get are so great that we should not complain. That would be true if I demanded better tins with no higher costs, but I don't. I have several times stated that I would be more then happy to pay $7 more pr tin to get the same quality tins that we got last round (or even first wave). Everybody should agree that $7 is more then enough to make a paper band and a better tin, so why talk about the content? It is out of topic to talk about that as long as I sead that I would gladly pay more. Then I would give Disney an even higher income.

I'm not just responding to you, lots of people are complaining about the packaging. You may be willing to pay more, but would everybody? And I don't think discussing the content is out-of-topic. If you want to tell Disney what you think of Wave 4, I would hope at some point everybody here would thank Disney for opening their "vaults".

karlsen wrote:Then in respond to me not buying these anymore I should modify it a little. I would always consider buying the cartoons but I would never have bought Mickey Mouse Club forinstance. I have never seen that before, and I will probably only watch it once (or maybee not even that). The reason why I bought it was just because of the tin, and to complete my collection. I know a lot of people could care less but then this threed is not for you. This threed is for those that realy does not like that threetment. If you are happy and satisfyed then good for you. I am not, and I never will be just because others are.

But sometimes complaining about stuff doesn't result in better product. What if a few hundred people phone up the Disney phone line to complain, and Disney looks at their potential profits and decided "Forget about it, it was never a big money maker, and now people are complaining, why should we bother? They don't seem to apprecitate what we release."

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:27 am**

2099net wrote:
karlsen wrote: Ok, so you say that since it has been inconsistant that many times we should just be pleased with it and dont complain even if we realy feel cheated? That logic does not go with me.
No but I think it is incredible that the last two waves have included some of the most sought after stuff, with less repetition from previous LD releases (such as the never released "Victory Through Airpower" in Wave 3 and the non-LD released Mickey Mouse B/W shorts in this waves release) and all people do is complain about the packaging.

In the real world, packaging changes.

Totally agree, Netty. When I clicked on here and saw that people found the new wave was crap due to packaging, I cringed. Never judge a DVD by its cover.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:40 am**

Wonderlicious wrote:Totally agree, Netty. When I clicked on here and saw that people found the new wave was crap due to packaging, I cringed. Never judge a DVD by its cover.

That is so far from the truth that you can get it. There are several threads that talk about how glad they are about the content. Nothing less would also be wrong because the content (on atleast the Pluto and Mickey tins) are wonderfull.

BUT the packing has become cheaper and trying to avoid that disgussion would not be right. It is correct that some people does not care at all even if the discs came in cardboard sleeves. Thats the reason why there are such a high market for illigal copyes. Some people does just not care at all. Then you have those that realy loves the packing. The same people go out and buy the big boxes of lets say Lion King. It costs more and there are nothing more of content on it, its just a big box and a stuffed animal. But lots of people want that.

I am not complaining just to complain and I realy do understand all the others in THIS thread that are complaining on the PACKING (not the discs itself because we have already established that there are lots of praise about that). When they took away the numbers on the tin I could understand it because that was much easier for Disney to then replace broken tins instead of selling those at a cheaper price like they did. But the things they have done this time is of now logic at alt.

* The band around the tin.
Why did they remove that one? My guess is because making one without Roy Disney's signature would make a lot of people angry. If I were them I would have replaced the Roy signature with a Walt Disney quote and a Walt Disney signature instead. I would perfectly understand why they did not want Roy's signature on these since he has nothing to do with them anymore.

* The back side photo
Now they have made the tins so easy to copy that anybody can do it. The tins look like cheap copyes of the first wave.

* The cases are white.
Now, why did they do this? There should be no costs at all for them to continue the black cases instead of the white ones. What do they save here? But the consumers have more expences because we (those of us that do care) have to go out and buy new ones.

But I respect those of you that does not care, but please do respect us that do care and not say that we are wining about stupid things.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:29 pm**

Where do we get replacement cases? Silver ones could be nice. One of my Treasures arrived with a damaged case, so I'd need a replacement even if I didn't care about the colour.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:30 pm**

Lars Vermundsberget wrote:Where do we get replacement cases? Silver ones could be nice. One of my Treasures arrived with a damaged case, so I'd need a replacement even if I didn't care about the colour.

I guess you are refering to the tin and not the DVDcase itself?

If that one is damaged the only way to get a new one is to contact the store that it came from and tell them that it was dented.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:14 pm**

Okay, I finally had time to see all three Walt Disney's Treasures. My favorite ones were The Complete Pluto: Volume 1 and Mickey Mouse in Black & White Volume 2 very much I remember watching some of these shorts when I was younger and lastly The Mickey Mouse Club: Week One wasn't that much a favorite for me. I guess I really didn't like The Mickey Mouse Club was because it wasn't my decade. I guess I love Pluto the most is because he's my favorite Disney character.

Posted: **Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:22 pm**

karlsen wrote:
Wonderlicious wrote:Totally agree, Netty. When I clicked on here and saw that people found the new wave was crap due to packaging, I cringed. Never judge a DVD by its cover.
That is so far from the truth that you can get it. There are several threads that talk about how glad they are about the content. Nothing less would also be wrong because the content (on atleast the Pluto and Mickey tins) are wonderfull.

BUT the packing has become cheaper and trying to avoid that disgussion would not be right. It is correct that some people does not care at all even if the discs came in cardboard sleeves. Thats the reason why there are such a high market for illigal copyes. Some people does just not care at all. Then you have those that realy loves the packing. The same people go out and buy the big boxes of lets say Lion King. It costs more and there are nothing more of content on it, its just a big box and a stuffed animal. But lots of people want that.

I am not complaining just to complain and I realy do understand all the others in THIS thread that are complaining on the PACKING (not the discs itself because we have already established that there are lots of praise about that). When they took away the numbers on the tin I could understand it because that was much easier for Disney to then replace broken tins instead of selling those at a cheaper price like they did. But the things they have done this time is of now logic at alt.

* The band around the tin.
Why did they remove that one? My guess is because making one without Roy Disney's signature would make a lot of people angry. If I were them I would have replaced the Roy signature with a Walt Disney quote and a Walt Disney signature instead. I would perfectly understand why they did not want Roy's signature on these since he has nothing to do with them anymore.

* The back side photo
Now they have made the tins so easy to copy that anybody can do it. The tins look like cheap copyes of the first wave.

* The cases are white.
Now, why did they do this? There should be no costs at all for them to continue the black cases instead of the white ones. What do they save here? But the consumers have more expences because we (those of us that do care) have to go out and buy new ones.

But I respect those of you that does not care, but please do respect us that do care and not say that we are wining about stupid things.

Thanks for continuing our fight against cheap collector's packaging.

basically what I think is: if they could make it for wave one which was unknown, they can make it for wave 4 which more people know about.

this is kind of like the airline that saved $25,000 by removing 1 olive from their salads.

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:32 am**

Ciaobelli wrote:this is kind of like the airline that saved $25,000 by removing 1 olive from their salads.

Yes, and just waite and see what Disney does next time around if nobody complain this time.

"OK, they did not notice, or did not care",

"Should we remove the tins all together, that would make more money"

"Yes, lets do, nobody would care anyway, they should only be glad that they are fortune enogh to buy our products"

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:52 am**

karlsen wrote:
Lars Vermundsberget wrote:Where do we get replacement cases? Silver ones could be nice. One of my Treasures arrived with a damaged case, so I'd need a replacement even if I didn't care about the colour.
I guess you are refering to the tin and not the DVDcase itself?

If that one is damaged the only way to get a new one is to contact the store that it came from and tell them that it was dented.

Mmm, no, in fact I'm talking about the plastic cases ("double alpha" and similar). From time to time for quite a while I've been in need of replacements. Single-disc cases are usually not a problem, but the thick double ones...

Posted: **Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:41 pm**

karlsen wrote:
" they should only be glad that they are fortune enogh to buy our products"

thats what alot of people here think unfortunately.

people think we should be treatin Disney as some kind of God and we should be on our knees thanking for what we get. WAZZUP WIT THAT??

DVDizzy Forum

Let us tell Disney what we think about wave 4