DVDizzy Forum

Tangled wrote:Isn't it also racist to hate a character's design just because she's white?

Nope. Just a little overeagerness to appear progressive.

qindarka wrote:Many were saying that since Disney took so many liberties with the source material, they could have placed it in a region with POC's. Also saying that even Scandinavia has some minority POC's.

I need to add that it has been confirmed that although Norway served as an inspiration for the setting, it will not be officially set there. It will be set in a fictional land. It's not like Mulan which was explicitly set in China or Beauty & the Beast which was set in France, etc.

qindarka wrote:We can't just ignore these issues and pretend they don't exist either. It's an industry wide problem where minorities and females don't get the representation and respectful portrayals they deserve. Not talking about it and thinking that sexism and racism don't exist anymore will only continue to perpetuate this.

Well said.

Tangled wrote:Isn't it also racist to hate a character's design just because she's white?

They don't hate the character because she's white; they're merely disappointed and frustrated about the lack of diversity and under-representation of people of color in animation and in mainstream media in general.

Sotiris wrote:

Tangled wrote:Isn't it also racist to hate a character's design just because she's white?

They don't hate the character because she's white; they're merely disappointed and frustrated about the lack of diversity and under-representation of people of color in animation and in mainstream media in general.

But that's just the thing: the do hate the character because she's white. At least, they certainly act like it.

And to dismiss every character that isn't incredibly diverse as a lack of progress is not the right way to go about this. There's nothing wrong with a white character. There's also nothing wrong with a minority character. It shouldn't be about the character's skin color. Many of them would prefer a poorly written minority character over a well written white character, and that's just silly to me. That's what people mean when they say we need to stop talking about it.

The irony is that activists of this issue always direct their attention to Disney, or rather, WDAS to be specific. Which is ironic, because they've had more people of color than any other big animation studio. Jungle Book, Aladdin, Pocahontas, Hunchback, Mulan, Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis, Lilo & Stich, Brother Bear, John Henry and The Princess and The Frog.

Plus an upcoming rumored Island feature. Yes, there is always room for improvement, especially in the way in which different ethnicities are being represented. That area leaves a lot to be desired. But no one is complaining that 'The Croods' or 'How To Train Your Dragon' don't feature people of color. And PIXAR's universe is predominantly white as well. Minus Frozone and Russell from Up... (did I leave anyone out?).

Always pinpointing WDAS because of their supposed nuclear influence on little girls' self image isn't helping the plight. This is an industry-wide problem and needs to be addressed as such.

OMG! She is right!! Never realized that until now.

atlanticaunderthesea wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3rRNlYOjSA

You beat me to it. That was Jenna at her best! I miss 30 Rock already...

SWillie! wrote:It shouldn't be about the character's skin color.

It shouldn't but it is because the industry is still racist. How else would you explain the lack of PoC presence in the media? Or the fact that studios are more likely to greenlight films that involve a white cast? A recent example is with the film Red Tails. George Lucas said that the long delay in the production of the film was because major film studios balked at financing and marketing a film with an "all-black" cast and "no major white roles."

SWillie! wrote:Many of them would prefer a poorly written minority character over a well written white character, and that's just silly to me.

I disagree. That's exactly what they don't want. And why does it have to be an either/or scenario anyway?

PatrickvD wrote:Always pinpointing WDAS because of their supposed nuclear influence on little girls' self image isn't helping the plight. This is an industry-wide problem and needs to be addressed as such.

While Disney's presence and influence is undeniable, I agree with what you're saying. It is indeed an industry-wide problem.

Sotiris wrote:It shouldn't but it is because the industry is still racist. How else would you explain the lack of PoC presence in the media? Or the fact that studios are more likely to greenlight films that involve a white cast? A recent example is with the film Red Tails. George Lucas said that the long delay in the production of the film was because major film studios balked at financing and marketing a film with an "all-black" cast and "no major white roles."

And of course, that's very unfortunate. Please don't get me wrong... I'm not fighting on the side of a racist industry here. I'm fighting against extremism views against that racist industry. The way to go about fighting low representation of minorities is not to bash every white, non-minority character. It's counter-productive. It makes perfect sense to have white characters in most of these films, as *newsflash* the majority of our society is indeed white. Set a film in South Africa or the heart of Mexico and have a primarily white cast? There's a problem. But set a film in Northern Europe or America and have a primarily white cast? There shouldn't be any issue here, as it makes sense - but activists choose to find fault when there isn't any racism involved. A lack of minorities is not necessarily racism, and it is too often taken as such.

Sotiris wrote:

SWillie! wrote:Many of them would prefer a poorly written minority character over a well written white character, and that's just silly to me.

I disagree. That's exactly what they don't want. And why does it have to be an either/or scenario anyway?

It doesn't, I didn't mean that. I simply mean they'd rather see a minority regardless of whether or not it makes sense, is well-written, etc than to see a white character where it does make sense and it is well written. In the case of Frozen, it would be a stretch to have non-white characters in there and have it make sense, because of where the film is set (regardless of whether or not it's set in a "real" geological place). They would only be doing so for the sole purpose of having a minority in there and showing diversity, which is not the right way to go about things. It should be about what makes sense. I'm not sure what you see that makes you think that's exactly what they don't want, because the fact that they praise a minority character and put down a white character before we know a single thing about the story, scenario, writing, etc tells me that those things don't matter to them; it's only about their skin color.

SWillie! wrote:The way to go about fighting low representation of minorities is not to bash every white, non-minority character.

I don't think what you're describing is actually occurring, though. At least not in a significant degree. In my experience, the people who have complained about Frozen are the same people who love the white Disney heroes and heroines and their respective movies.

SWillie! wrote:It makes perfect sense to have white characters in most of these films, as *newsflash* the majority of our society is indeed white.

So, what if the majority is white? This has suddenly to do with numbers? In 2011, people of color made up 36.2% of the US population. That's a very large percentage. Should those people remain under-represented in the media because they don't constitute the majority?

SWillie! wrote:Set a film in South Africa or the heart of Mexico and have a primarily white cast? There's a problem.

But the industry can easily avoid that by purposefully not setting films in such locations. In that way they can still have a white cast without receiving any backlash.

SWillie! wrote:But set a film in Northern Europe or America and have a primarily white cast? There shouldn't be any issue here, as it makes sense.

It also makes the same sense to have people of color instead. White is not the default. Even in locations that have predominately white populations, people of color still exist, are part of the same society, and any type of stories can be told about them.

SWillie! wrote:In the case of Frozen, it would be a stretch to have non-white characters in there and have it make sense, because of where the film is set (regardless of whether or not it's set in a "real" geological place).

Why would it be a stretch? It's a fictional place which has coldness as its only distinctive attribute. It could have been easily set in Alaska for example. Not to mention that there's an indigenous PoC population in Scandinavia called Sami of about 195,000.

And even if we do accept that in the case of Frozen it made more sense to have a white cast because of the setting, that doesn't apply to most of the films out there both animated and live-action who can't use the setting as an excuse.

SWillie! wrote:I'm not sure what you see that makes you think that's exactly what they don't want, because the fact that they praise a minority character and put down a white character before we know a single thing about the story, scenario, writing, etc tells me that those things don't matter to them; it's only about their skin color.

Again, I don't believe that they want a PoC character just for the sake of political correctness nor that they bash Anna because she's white. They simply criticize Disney's decision to release yet another film starring white people. Perhaps the way they have expressed this has been misconstrued by some.

SWillie! wrote: as *newsflash* the majority of our society is indeed white.

Pretty soon it won't. Another 10 years hispanics are going to be the majority. Why do you think GOP is now supporting immigration reform and that they're focusing on how get Latino votes?

Super Aurora wrote:Pretty soon it won't. Another 10 years Hispanics are going to be the majority.

Not exactly. It's estimated that by 2050 people of color will comprise 49.9% of the US population.

Sotiris wrote:I don't think what you're describing is actually occurring, though. At least not in a significant degree. In my experience, the people who have complained about Frozen are the same people who love the white Disney heroes and heroines and their respective movies.

Again, I don't believe that they want a PoC character just for the sake of political correctness nor that they bash Anna because she's white. They simply criticize Disney's decision to release yet another film starring white people. Perhaps the way they have expressed this has been misconstrued by some.

Well, to be fair, I suppose this is all very recent in my mind as we've been talking about this same issue at school. There's a couple girls at school who are extremely, EXTREMELY feminist and (what is the word for minority activists?) and are both activists in this whole minority debacle. So yes, I probably am exaggerating. But there are those who simply think every character should be a "person of color".

In the case of Anna, is it really a case of racism?? Are the filmmakers really being racist just by making her a white girl? No. I highly doubt the filmmakers have any sort of race agenda, and it doesn't go any further than the fact that they simply envision Anna to be white. And it shouldn't have to!

Sotiris wrote:And even if we do accept that in the case of Frozen it made more sense to have a white cast because of the setting, that doesn't apply to most of the films out there both animated and live-action who can't use the setting as an excuse.

That's true, but I'm more focusing on the backlash that Disney receives for it's animated films, as it seems to always be stronger than other studios as well as live-action films.

You mention the 36% of minorities in the US, and as Super Aurora pointed out, that number is rising. And as it does, I am sure we will see more and more diversity in the industry. As it stands right now, in the past ten years Disney has released movies with main characters in the following categories:

1 film about Native Americans
3 films primarily about animals
1 film about stuffed animals
1 film with primarily black main characters
3 films with primarily white main characters

If we only speak in terms of the films which have human main characters, that gives us 3 of 5 films with white characters. That's 60%. Or 40% minorities. Is that really that awful, when we consider that 36% of the actual population are minorities?

Like I said, I assume we will continue to see more diversity as time passes and minorities become a larger part of our society. But as it stands now, I think the issue is blown WAY out of proportion by some.

SWillie! wrote:There's a couple girls at school who are extremely, EXTREMELY feminist and (what is the word for minority activists?)

I'm not sure. How about radical racio-ethnic feminists?

SWillie! wrote:In the case of Anna, is it really a case of racism? Are the filmmakers really being racist just by making her a white girl? No. I highly doubt the filmmakers have any sort of race agenda, and it doesn't go any further than the fact that they simply envision Anna to be white. And it shouldn't have to!

These things have usually to do with management rather than with the filmmakers. For example, it's management who turns down projects that involve non-white cast or dictating changes regarding the film's setting or the characters' race and gender. Didn't Disney management force the filmmakers to change Chicken Little from a girl to a boy? I'm mostly referring to cases like these.

SWillie! wrote:As it stands right now, in the past ten years Disney has released movies with main characters in the following categories [...]

I don't disagree with this. As Patrick has said while there's room for improvement, WDAS is the only of the big animation studios that has a decent track record of racial and ethnic diversity in its films.

Sotiris wrote:I'm not sure. How about radical racio-ethnic feminists?

That sounds perfect. You hit the nail on the head haha

Sotiris wrote:These things have usually to do with management rather than with the filmmakers. For example, it's management who turns down projects that involve non-white cast or dictating changes regarding the film's setting or the characters' race and gender. Didn't Disney management force the filmmakers to change Chicken Little from a girl to a boy? I'm mostly referring to cases like these.

Yeah, and that's fair - in these kinds of cases, where things are deliberately changed to shy away from minorities, that's where the issue stands.

Overall I just think that more diversity will come naturally as the world itself becomes more diverse. I think as that happens, everyone would just be happier if they stopped despairing every time a blonde, white girl shows up.

Sotiris wrote:

Super Aurora wrote:Pretty soon it won't. Another 10 years Hispanics are going to be the majority.

Not exactly. It's estimated that by 2050 people of color will comprise 49.9% of the US population.

My bad. I meant 2050. However of the minorities becoming the biggest majority in the future, Hispanic will beat blacks. and also, time goes by fast and so in a sense that's really soon. I mean in this link, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... a-in-2014/
next year, Hispanic will dominate. This is the state where most of the movie making and Hollywood productions are made. Most likely than not, Hispanic/Latinos will become more and more integrated into Hollywood films etc.

Disney did French heroines, Arabian, American, Chinese, South American, Greek, Gypsies, Black American heroines, even some from Hawai or Atlantis... So many brunette and coloured skin girls...

SO now they're doing a nothern tale from a Danish Writer... what another interesting culture. Why, Why, Oh my, Why would the heroin look other than European blonde ???

SWillie! wrote:And to dismiss every character that isn't incredibly diverse as a lack of progress is not the right way to go about this. There's nothing wrong with a white character. There's also nothing wrong with a minority character. It shouldn't be about the character's skin color.

It does become about skin color when there is only one skin color. The problem is that most writers automatically create characters with the assumption that they are white; racism (and sexism) is often unconscious. Disney is targeted moreso because they aim their films towards children, and because their legacy is much longer (and dirtier) in the case of race/gender than either Pixar or Dreamworks. It doesn't help that the few films they have with non-white characters often feature questionable portrayals to some people out there. Or that all their white female characters look the same now.

Paul Briggs
‏@pbcbstudios
Hearing @IMKristenBell and @idinamenzel sing together today was one of the highlights of my animation career! Thank you!!! #frozen

A duet, I would imagine.

Well, more proof this is the biggest last minute job in Disney history. If they indeed sang/record it 'today' ...

A random example: 'Reflection' was recorded in 1995.