DVDizzy Forum

rodis wrote:The Little Mermaid being in a category with some of these films is almost blasphemy!

Oh my cod!

This thread has been done before, but since Albert hasn't dug it up yet, I'll do my list again. It will undoubtedly have changed since last time, due to changing insights. By the way, I'm really trying to make a 'best-to-worst' list here, as opposed to 'favorite-to-least favorite'. It's hard to be as objective as possible, but I'll do my best. My list of personal favorites would look very different.

I'll judge these movies on story (structure, logic, originality, atmosphere, humor); animation (quality, innovation, experimentation, effects); characters (design, likability, relatability); music (songs and lyrics, soundtrack, integration with rest of film) and overall feel, warmth and heart.

I'll leave out movies I've not seen or have only partly seen (yes, it happens!).


01. Pinocchio
02. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves
03. Dumbo
04. The Little Mermaid
05. One Hundred and One Dalmatians
06. Sleeping Beauty
07. Beauty and the Beast
08. Lilo & Stitch
09. Fantasia
10. Bambi

11. Cinderella
12. Jungle Book
13. Lady and the Tramp
14. The Rescuers
15. Tarzan
16. Aladdin
17. Mulan
18. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
19. Rapunzel
20. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

21. The Lion King
22. Pocahontas
23. Peter Pan
24. The Princess and the Frog
25. Alice in Wonderland
26. The Black Cauldron
27. Hercules
28. Fantasia 2000
29. The Rescuers Down Under
30. The Sword in the Stone

31. Oliver & Company
32. The Great Mouse Detective
33. The Emperor's New Groove
34. Robin Hood
35. Make Mine Music
36. The Three Cabelleros
37. Saludos Amigos
38. The Aristocats
39. The Fox and the Hound
40. Atlantis: The Lost Empire
41. Home on the Range

Sky Syndrome wrote:

milojthatch wrote:Crap:

The Rescuers

Uh oh. Goliath will not be pleased with that.

I'd have The Rescuers in the okay category or the good category.

Not pleased at all! But I'm not gonna argue (this time!). I assume this is Milo's list of personal favorites. I tried to make my list as 'objective' as possible, and I think that, 'objectively' speaking (when you look at character design/animation and development; story structure; songs; overall atmosphere, heart and warmth) The Rescuers belongs far higher up the list than Milo said.

Goliath wrote:

Sky Syndrome wrote: Uh oh. Goliath will not be pleased with that.

I'd have The Rescuers in the okay category or the good category.

Not pleased at all! But I'm not gonna argue (this time!). I assume this is Milo's list of personal favorites. I tried to make my list as 'objective' as possible, and I think that, 'objectively' speaking (when you look at character design/animation and development; story structure; songs; overall atmosphere, heart and warmth) The Rescuers belongs far higher up the list than Milo said.

I tried to be objective myself, which is why "Mermaid" isn't on the bottom as well, becuase if it was purely my favorites, it would be. Not interested in arguing either, but I don't see what you and others see in "The Rescuers." I can actually sit though watching "Chicken Little" easier then I can "The Rescuers." I just don't feel that any kind of story, memorable characters worth caring about, or memorable songs can be found in this film. But it doesn't bother me that you or anyone else may like it. Fair enough?

milojthatch wrote:

Goliath wrote: Not pleased at all! But I'm not gonna argue (this time!). I assume this is Milo's list of personal favorites. I tried to make my list as 'objective' as possible, and I think that, 'objectively' speaking (when you look at character design/animation and development; story structure; songs; overall atmosphere, heart and warmth) The Rescuers belongs far higher up the list than Milo said.

I tried to be objective myself, which is why "Mermaid" isn't on the bottom as well, becuase if it was purely my favorites, it would be. Not interested in arguing either, but I don't see what you and others see in "The Rescuers." I can actually sit though watching "Chicken Little" easier then I can "The Rescuers." I just don't feel that any kind of story, memorable characters worth caring about, or memorable songs can be found in this film. But it doesn't bother me that you or anyone else may like it. Fair enough?

I'm not attempting to speak for Goliath or any of the other Rescuers fans on here - just my own opinions. And this is not meant as an argument either, just an explanation.

The Rescuers works on so many different levels for me. The most important of which can be summed up in three words - HEART, HEART, and HEART!

First, in Penny, you have perhaps one of the most easy-to-empathize/sympathize-with characters in all of the DACs (for me). She is likable, innocent, kind, pure, shows kindness towards animals and her teddy bear, and all she wants is to be adopted. The scene where she tells Rufus the cat how she was passed over for adoption, and he comforts her, is for me one of the most moving scenes in all the DACs.

Then she is kidnapped by an evil madwoman and her problems just get worse. All she has in the world is her Teddy Bear, and that bi*** Medusa even takes that away.

The scene just before Penny meets the mice, featuring the song "Someone's Waiting For You", and then Bernard and Bianca coming in like guardian angels to comfort/save her, is another moving heartwarmer.

And then finally there is the Happy Ending payoff, where Penny gets adopted. Another moving, heartwarming scene.

I tend to watch movies almost entirely with my heart - I am intensely sensitive and sentimental, so anything that can move me this deeply and give me the payoff of a Happy Ending is going to get MAJOR POINTS from me. In fact, my emotional journey/emotional reaction to a movie is, by a mile, the number one criteria I use in evaluating them. More stereotypically "masculine" things like technical considerations come in WAY behind this for me.

Since these emotional reactions by their very nature are subjective and differ from viewer to viewer, and are not as easy to quantify "objectively" as more technical, thought-oriented, "left-brain" qualities - for me, I find it difficult if not impossible to rate movies "objectively", or take the idea seriously that these opinions can be universally agreed upon. Indeed, Goliath and Milo both used an objective criteria here and have two wildly different views on The Rescuers - neither of which is wrong, and BOTH of which is right, from their own unique, individual, existential point of view.

And look at how often two highly acclaimed critics, both ostensibly being "objective", can watch the exact same movie and come up with widely differing points of view.

Going back to why I love The Rescuers - beyond the heart, the story itself is compelling with a lot of suspense and even a nice dose of humor in Snoops, Nero and Brutus, and the various animal supporting characters. There is a lot of charm in depicting the miniature mouse world, unseen by humans, featuring their own version of the United Nations, Albatross Airlines, etc. I LOVE DACs that heavily feature cuteness and animals; and these lighter, more whimsical touches are balanced nicely with (and for me do not detract from), the darker, more serious Medusa/Penny storyline.

Musically, the three songs sung by Shelby Flint are beautiful and touching, and this is balanced out nicely by the quintessentially cute, quintessentially Disney music of "Rescue Aid Society".

The Rescuers also has sentimental value for me (outside of the sentiment of the film itself), as it was the first DAC of completely new material that I saw as a child in theatres on its initial run. (I saw Many Adventures Of Winnie the Pooh, DAC #22, a few month earlier). I had/have the vinyl record soundtrack and everything!

Of course this has no bearing on my ranking, and if the qualities I love about the film no longer worked for me on current viewings, my ranking would reflect that.

Here are my favourites from the ones I have seen. Its so hard to decide! especially because there are movies that were my favourites when I was a kid but since then there have been others I have seen and liked more. But even tho those movies may not be near the top now its still hard to rate them lower. Haha.

1. The Lion King
2. Tangled
3. Mulan
4. Emperor's New Groove
5. Tarzan
6. Aladdin
7. The Little Mermaid
8. Beauty and the Beast
9. Bolt
10. Peter Pan
11. Treasure Planet
12. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
13. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
14. Lilo and Stitch
15. 101 Dalmatians
16. Hercules
17. Pocahontas
18. The Black Cauldron
19. The Jungle Book
20. Sleeping Beauty
21. Cinderella
22. Atlantis
23. Lady and the Tramp
24. Meet the Robinsons
25. The Princess and the Frog
26. Brother Bear
27. Bambi
28. Pinocchio
29. The Aristocats
30. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
31. Home on the Range
32. Robin Hood
33. The Fox and The Hound
34. Dumbo
35. Fantasia

There are a fair few others I have seen but it was so many years ago now that i cant remember how good they were.

David S. wrote:Indeed, Goliath and Milo both used an objective criteria here and have two wildly different views on The Rescuers - neither of which is wrong, and BOTH of which is right, from their own unique, individual, existential point of view. [...]

I think you summed up the emotional aspect of The Rescuers very well. Milo and I have indeed very different opinions on the same movie and we both claim to be 'objective', or at least we try to be. The reason why I come to a much higher rating for The Rescuers than Milo (though not a top 10 spot, which it surely would have gotten when it was my list of personal favorites) by using 'objective' measurements, is because the film *works* in every possible way.

The sober, sparse, subdued animation style (undeniably the result of budget cuts in the 1970's) go very well together with the small scale of the story and the small world (literally!) of its main characters. Had this been Aladdin, the low-budget animation would have been completely out of place. But the animators used their constraints to their advantage on The Rescuers to achieve a certain atmosphere fitting fot the story that had to be told.

You already mentioned the inventiveness of the mouse-world. It's details like that which are important to the feel and consistency of the movie. In the sequel, the mice had everything tailor-made (like in the restaurant scene where they have tables and glasses, but just mouse-sized), which ruined everything.

The low-key songs, sung off-screen only added to this atmosphere. Having the characters sing in a musical way would not have been fitting. Again, fitting choice for the kind of movie they were making.

Besides that, everything in the story worked: the characters had clear and strong motivations: Medusa is in there just for the diamond; Penny wants to be adopted; Bianca needs to prove herself as a woman in a man's world (remember the words of the chairman); Bernard has to protect Bianca, but can only do this by overcoming his own fears. All characters are well-rounded: Bernard has his mannerisms and his superstition which makes him believable; Bianca is clearly a fancy lady from high society, but tries not to act like it; Penny is convincing as the little girl who feels lost, but has to gain confidence etc.

So by these 'objective' standards, The Rescuers is a good movie that works on all fronts. Then, I have to decide where it fits in a list of 40 other Classic Disneys. So I have to take into account all the other movies' strenghts and weaknesses. I've leveled them and came to realize it belongs on spot no. 14. Obviously, I couldn't place it above such innovative Classics like Fantasia and Sleeping Beauty, even though I personally enjoy The Rescuers much more than those two.

I don't think most people have tried to make an 'objective' best-to-worst list. I admit that's hard to do, and might make another list in the future, but I doubt much would change. Personal favorites like Robin Hood and The Great Mouse Detective entertain me, but are lacking in so many departments that they'll never end up in the top 20 on a 'best-to-worst' list.

Just look at the previous list, by TheLionPrince. I'm not putting you down, man, but that clearly is a 'favorites' list. Because when you look at all the animated features Disney has done in over 70 years, you cannot say Rapunzel ('Tangled') is better than anything they produced before. I love that movie to death (watched it three times in less than two months), but you simply cannot say it was more inventive, daring, original, or even simply better animated than artistic achievements like Pinocchio or Fantasia. When you're honest about it, Rapunzel is a highly formulaic film (the main character even takes her design straight from Ariel, thanks to Glen Keane). That's not a bad thing, because the formula is executed very well and includes a few new twists to keep it entertaining, like the excellent relationship between Rapunzel and Flynn. But it still doesn't have iconic scenes like Lampwick's transformation scene or 'Night on Bald Mountain'.

Again, I'm not putting those lists down. Nothing wrong with the at all. I just meant to explain how I tried to rank the Disney Classic as 'objectively' as I could.

Goliath wrote:I think you summed up the emotional aspect of The Rescuers very well

Thanks!

Goliath wrote:
I don't think most people have tried to make an 'objective' best-to-worst list. I admit that's hard to do, and might make another list in the future, but I doubt much would change.

I'd be interested in seeing that (your "personal favorites" list)

Thanks for your great posts about The Rescuers, David S. and Goliath! I totally agree with you both, The Rescuers is one of my favourites and I think it's very underrated. I was talking with someone a while ago about Disney movies and she said something like 'I would only buy the real classics, not The Rescuers and stuff like that' and I was kinda mad about that I think a lot of people don't appreciate the movie enough.

I'll do groups like SA did as it's easier for me. And this is obviously my "favourites" list.

Great: Love Them!

Sleeping Beauty
The Great Mouse Detective
One Hundred and One Dalmatians
The Black Cauldron
Cinderella
Lady and the Tramp
The Rescuers
The Little Mermaid
Alice in Wonderland
The Sword in the Stone

Good: I like these alot too, just not as much

Tangled
Treasure Planet
The Emperor's New Groove
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad
Lilo and Stitch
The Rescuers Down Under
Bambi
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
Fun and Fancy Free (even with not-so-great "Bongo" segement)
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
The Aristocats (for sure at the bottom of this list)

Okay: Have parts I like

Mulan
Pocahontas
Aladdin
The Princess and the Frog
Melody Time
Make Mine Music
The Three Caballeros
Dumbo
Peter Pan
The Jungle Book
Beauty and the Beast
Hercules
Fantasia 2000
Bolt
Pinocchio (don't shoot me!)
Fantasia (some parts are really good, but for sure not all are)

In Between:

Robin Hood
Oliver and Company (love songs, but outside of them...)

Don't Really Care For: Or strongly dislike in some cases

The Lion King
Chicken Little
Meet the Robinsons
The Fox and the Hound
Dinosaur
Home on the Range (except one song)
Brother Bear
Tarzan

Can't Rank:

Atlantis (been too long since I last saw it)
Saludos Amigos (see above)

My 30 favorite Walt Disney animated features, (**including live-action/animated features but not including Pixar films) -- the top dozen order could shift around from day to day, but the group of titles would likely remain the same:

Sleeping Beauty
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
Peter Pan
Alice in Wonderland
Cinderella
Pinocchio
Dumbo
Bambi
**Mary Poppins
**Song of the South
Lady and the Tramp
One Hundred and One Dalmatians
Fantasia
The Three Caballeros
Melody Time
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad
The Many Adventures of Winnie-the-Pooh
The Little Mermaid
Beauty and the Beast
Aladdin
The Jungle Book
**Bedknobs and Broomsticks
Fun and Fancy Free
Saludos Amigos
The Sword in the Stone
Make Mine Music
The Aristocats
The Rescuers
Robin Hood
**Pete's Dragon

The rest don't really matter much to me.

David S. wrote:I'd be interested in seeing that (your "personal favorites" list)

I'm sure such a thread has already been done or will be done in the future. I meant to say I might make a slightly different 'best-to-worst' list in the future, based on changing/new insights, but I don't expect it to change much from the list I just compiled. Good to see you back on the forum, by the way!

Because you asked for it, David, here's my 'most favorite to least favorite' list. Compare it to my 'best to worst' list and judge if I have been 'objective' enough.

I'm not entirely sure about the top 10. All movies mentioned there should definitly be there, but maybe in a slightly different order. I had a lot of trouble compiling this list, because there are so many really good Disney-movies, and I generally don't like to put a very, very recent picture in front of old favorites I grew up with.


01. The Little Mermaid
02. Rapunzel
03. The Rescuers
04. Robin Hood
05. The Great Mouse Detective
06. Lilo & Stitch
07. One Hundred and One Dalmatians
08. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
09. Aladdin
10. The Hunchback of Notre Dame

11. Mulan
12. Tarzan
13. Beauty and the Beast
14. Oliver & Company
15. The Sword in the Stone
16. Jungle Book
17. Peter Pan
18. Lady and the Tramp
19. Pinocchio
20. Hercules

21. The Black Cauldron
22. Dumbo
23. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
24. Cinderella
25. Pocahontas
26. Fantasia
27. Fantasia 2000
28. The Three Caballeros
29. The Lion King
30. Sleeping Beauty

31. Alice in Wonderland
32. Bambi
33. Make Mine Music
34. The Princess and the Frog
35. The Rescuers Down Under
36. Saludos Amigos
37. The Emperor’s New Groove
38. The Aristocats
39. The Fox and the Hound
40. Atlantis: The Lost Empire
41. Home on the Range

For some reason, I thought Lilo would be your favorite.

Disney's Divinity wrote:For some reason, I thought Lilo would be your favorite.

You mean I'm weird like her? Or unadapted like Stitch?

Goliath wrote:You mean I'm weird like her? Or unadapted like Stitch?

It's probably because you have repeatedly praised the film on the forum something you haven't done so much for the films that are higher in you favourites list (aside from The Rescuers).

Sotiris wrote:It's probably because you have repeatedly praised the film on the forum something you haven't done so much for the films that are higher in you favourites list (aside from The Rescuers).

Well, I *have* made essay-lenght posts about how great Ariel is (and her movie). And I've said that I watched Rapunzel (still using the Dutch name) three times in less than two months. That's a highly exceptional thing to do for me. The others I have not praised so much, mostly because when seen in a more 'objective' light, they're not as good as a lot of other Disney movies. But they're all precious childhood favorites that I literally know by heart, line by line.

I havent even seen all of them yet, so I cant really list. I can say that I feel half the lesser ones are underrated and Snow White is bland.

Sotiris wrote:It's probably because you have repeatedly praised the film on the forum something you haven't done so much for the films that are higher in you favourites list (aside from The Rescuers).

I was thinking that maybe Lilo should be at no. 4 and Robin at no. 6; or that Rapunzel should be a few places lower, but I kept shuffeling them around, so I decided to leave it as it was. Besides, at the top 10 level, the precise positions don't matter much anyway. They're all favorites of mine.

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