DVDizzy Forum

Goliath wrote:

Lazario wrote:Oh, and I did also notice that you said you thought Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs might be Disney's greatest film / animated film.

Either Snow White or Pinocchio, bro'.

Reminds me, I'm due for a re-waftch of Pinocchio. Which of course is pretty much only going to happen after I've finished buying the more out-of-print Disney classics, then the discs considerably older such as the rest of the Gold Classic Collection titles not yet upgraded. In short... Maybe November... safe estimate?

milojthatch wrote:

Lazario wrote:However, there are a great many sources of imperfection here. Obviously the one that sticks out the most is Disney's unbelievable portrayal of Native Americans. I've never been a stickler for historical accuracy, but this is downright mocking and ridiculous. The "What Makes the Red Man Red" number can still be enjoyed for the quality of the music but everything else in the scene is just cringe-inducing. Still, there is something other than this that gets me. The moment where Wendy first meets Peter is the one that really gets under my skin. They truly forced her "I have to say a lot right now or else Peter's next line won't work." The moment where he says "girls talk too much" would automatically make any hero unsympathetic. But that's not the worst of it- what's worse is they seek to prove him right by insisting Wendy's an airhead and giving her a behavior she doesn't have in any other scene of the movie.

I firmly believe that people that get PC with Peter Pan don't get Pan and never will. I'm sorry to tell you this, but Peter Pan is most likely the most Un-PC character ever created.

I was dearly hoping that as a given, you would have personally decided to never reply to anything I've posted. Ever. Because it would take you maybe 2 minutes worth of doing research on me on this board to see we are polar opposites. The kind that are never supposed to meet. We've also never gotten in a debate yet. I haven't forgotten what you said about gay people last year. And I don't think you saw my reply to that - all for the best, I gather. Based on all this, it's probably a good idea that this exchange end here. And I mean, all exchanges between us ever. I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want the hassle (before it becomes one) either.

Now back to our regularly-scheduled program:

Being an Anti-PC warrior is one thing. Some people are able to make that attitude work - though it's, due to its' highly confrontational tone when expressed, not easy - by being consistent in character and very "I don't give a ..." in many if not all aspects of their scope of opinion. Those people are usually too busy living their life to also care about choosing a side, left or right. In general, they really "don't give a ..." But when someone outs themselves as a hater or a conservative... well, they're just as weak as the people who they think would find a movie like Peter Pan offensive because it's "just not nice to minorities or people who've been through hardship." You probably think I fall into that latter category. Or that anyone who would take the time to mention it does as well. That's where you've forgotten to reference my reply to Goliath where I say clear as day it doesn't really bother me. There's something more problematic or troublesome at the core. And I've already dealt with that. So, this is not an issue. Nor are you ever going to be able to burn almost anyone on the board with judgments you might have of P.C. culture. So what's say we all stop giving a... about anyone's assumed toughness when it comes to what they view as a mafia trying to enforce P.C. Because we all have a right to complain when something's just flat-out annoying!

milojthatch wrote:Disney themselves tried later to PC up Pan with "Return to Neverland" and the outcome was most likely the WORST interpretation of the character EVER!

And you think that's the only thing that irritated viewers? And I mean, those who actually bothered to watch it. What ever happened to people just realizing that movie was at least 40 years too late to be a sequel?

milojthatch wrote:Peter Pan is a childish hero. That is the point. His view of other cultures isn't going to be flattering. His view on women, the same thing. That is the whole point of the story in that Wendy, the true hero of the story, has an unrealistic view of Pan and growing up period. Through her interaction with Pan, she learns the necessity to grow up.

Congratulations! You just pointed out the obvious!

Everyone knows that.

milojthatch wrote:TO complain and take away the un-PC elements of the story is to take away the heart of the story in the first pace.

I didn't know people could change stories and movies just by criticizing them. That's a lot of power. And to that, I say; "IF ONLY!"

milojthatch wrote:It gets to the point where you may as well stop telling the story at all.

Well, wait and see what the children have to say... You go, tell the story to a group of young children, then ask them what they thought of it.

Oh, and be sure to ask them what kind of a commentary they think it is on or from the viewpoint of the current state of Political Correctness.

HAVE FUN!!

Presentation- A
No complaints of the cover. I wouldn't mind if Tinker Bell was smaller, but it doesn't bug me. The disc cover arts look great, and I actually do like holographic coated discs. But as Escapay said, it's what's inside that counts (especially if you're a monstrous beast, or a deformed hunchback ) And yes, I too love slipcovers.

Film Value- B
The artistry and animation are beautiful, and the characters are instantly recognizable, but some things weigh the movie down. As others have said, some characters are rather unlikable (Tinker Bell, Wendy). The Indian sequence never bothered me at all. Which reminds me of the unforgettable music. You Can Fly! You Can Fly! You Can Fly! and The Second Star to the Right are the more famous ones, but I like the catchy Following the Leader, and for some reason A Pirate's Life is always stuck in my head.

Video- A+
No complaints. Practically Perfect in Every Way.

Audio- A+
See Video.

Extras- B-
As we have come to know, this is the outlier of Platinum Editions. I would've liked a new documentary, rather than the skimpy one I had to bear watching. It might've been good in 2002, but I guess Disney was on time constraints. The ones I thoroughly enjoyed were In Walt's Words, The Peter Pan that Never Was, and the Sudoku game. Other than that: What is Disney thinking? The deleted scenes were boring, and the practically useless English Read-Along could've been used for more productive features, as others have said.

Presentation: A (Nice Cover art, menu designs, and disc art)
Film Value: A ( I used to find this film quite boring, but after rewatching it, It tickles the cockles of my heart)
Video: A (No complaints)
Audio: A- (a little grainy....)
Extras: D+ (very skimpy, with only 1 or two worthwhile features)

I will be tallying up the scores tomorrow morning, so get in your report cards!!

Peter Pan Report Card:

Presentation: A-
Film Value: B
Video: A
Audio: A
Extras: C-

Overall Grade: B+ (88.4%)

Scoreboard:

1. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: A (93.4%)
2. Peter Pan: B+ (88.4%)

Anyway..... next up.....:

Pocahontas 10th Anniversary Edition

Pocahontas 10th Anniversary Edition

Presentation: A- (The cover art should have been much better.)
Film Value: A+
Video: A+
Audio: A+
Extras: A+

Argh, don't have it! But I'll give the cover art a C and the Film Value an A. Can't judge the others. BTW, Lazario, what does PC mean?

SmartAleck25 wrote:Argh, don't have it! But I'll give the cover art a C and the Film Value an A. Can't judge the others. BTW, Lazario, what does PC mean?

Politically Correct. Which I don't believe has anything to do with politics, initially. It's considered something of a liberal system of morals by which companies who put out pieces of entertainment and public speakers who may make speeches in front of people refrain from speaking disrespectfully toward various minorities, women, and most people in general based on things like religion, physical handicaps and diseases, environmental factors, etc.

Pocahontas: 10th Anniversary Edition

Presentation: A

I never had a problem with the cover art, and the menus are nicely designed.

Film: A- (Theatrical) / A+ (Extended)

Both versions play out well as a morality tale, but the Extended is better simply because of the song-that-should've-been-in-there being re-instated. Every romantic couple in a Disney movie has a song, and it was a crime for Poca & John to not have one (even if historically they weren't a "couple").

Video: A+

When it's a simple digital transfer of the CAPS files, there's really nothing to complain about.

Audio: A

Nothing wrong here either.

Extras: A-

Most of the already-valuable laserdisc material is carried over, which is great, and the new commentary is also worth listening too. But I would have liked to have the old commentary available (on the theatrical version), and maybe even a newer retrospective piece (so long as it doesn't replace the 1995 tv special). But otherwise, everything offered is excellent and worth re-viewing. It rivals several "Platinums" in terms of both quality and quantity.

albert

The 2-disc special edition of Pocahontas was never released in Holland!

Oh dammit. I missed my chance to grade Peter Pan. Oh well.

As for Pocahontas:

Presentation: B+

THe disc art is very nice, but the cover could use some work. The characters are a bit off model, and the overall design isn't very pleasing. BIG head for her...not much room left for anything else.

Film: B+

Very good film, though at times it takes itself too seriously, and counter-balances with silly slapstick....a bit uneven. Great music though!


Video: A+

Perfect.


Audio: C-

THis is where this dvd fails to me the most. Often times, the music is out of synch with the words. THis is specially noticeable during Color of the Wind. Specially when compared with the properly mixed sing-along in the same disc!
Also, I am bothered by the fact that they changed a line in "savages". One of the men used to say "let's go kill a few men", now he says"lets go get a few men"...damn political correctness.


Extras: A-

Great extras. For a non-platinum title, it's great (and even better than some platinums....here is looking at you, Peter Pan....). My only complaint is that is that I;ve heard there was an audio commentary made for the laser disc for the theatrical cut. It wouldnt have cost them nothing to have that commentary here as well.

Marce82 wrote:Also, I am bothered by the fact that they changed a line in "savages". One of the men used to say "let's go kill a few men", now he says"lets go get a few men"...damn political correctness.

Quick question, was the original version of the song in the theatrical release or just the soundtrack? I ask because several lines differ between the original soundtrack and all the home video releases (including the VHS), but I can't remember which version of the song played for the theatrical release. I know I was aware back then but my memory has eluded me all these years later (surprisingly I still remember how a similar issue played out for Aladdin).

Thought I would resurrect this board, since it is still a while to we get a big Disney Classic release. Kinda weird thinking that its been like a year since we get something huge. (Not including Black Cauldron of course).

Anywho......

Pocahontas Report Card:

Presentation: B+
Film Value: A
Video: A+
Audio: B+
Extras: A-

Overall Grade: A- (84.3%)

Scoreboard:

1. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: A (93.4%)
2. Pocahontas A- (84.3%)
2. Peter Pan: B+ (78.4%)

Next:

Dumbo: Big Top Edition (60th Anniversary works as well)

Thanks for bumping this, Coolmanio!

Again, I can't judge it since I don't own it, but I'll do the ones I can.

Presentation-B-
Can't complain. Looks nice enough, but I like the 70th Anniversary cover better.
Film Value-A--I haven't seen this in years, but my memory tells me it was decent.

Coolmanio wrote:

Dumbo: 60th Anniversary Edition

Presentation: A

I don't have the Big Top Edition and am patiently awaiting the 70th Anniversary Edition. But in the meantime, the 60AE has served me well the past five years, it was one of the earliest Disney DVDs I bought and has been a longtime favorite film of mine as well. I like the menus on this set and since it's from 2001, there's no ridiculous FastPlay or EasyFind menus. Everything's laid out very nicely. The cover is simple, but that's part of its charm, and I'm not big on viewing covers anyway. Plus, Dumbo actually looks like Dumbo on the cover, unlike the Big Top Edition DVD.

Film: A+

It's a great underdog story and probably the only one from Walt's first five animated films that I can easily rewatch over and over again. I often need to be in specific moods for the other four, but Dumbo is a movie that I can easily fall in and out of regardless if I start at the beginning, middle, or end. At 64 minutes, it's quite a breezy little film, but I often find myself enjoying it so much that I may re-watch it immediately. There's a lot of great character moments. It's rather light on plot (it was intended to be a half-hour), thus, the character moments are welcome. "Pink Elephants on Parade" is still somewhat of an oddity, but I always viewed it as a welcome change from the previous 40-odd minutes of Dumbo being put upon by everyone. It's a diversion that helps build up the energy and euphoria we feel in the last act of the film.

Video: B-/C+

Most people complained about this when it first came out, and the Big Top Edition wasn't much better.

Audio: A

Can't really complain about the audio. If I can hear and understand it, I'm satisfied.

Extras: A-

For a single-disc set, especially from Disney in 2001, it's quite packed with a lot of valuable extras. The most extensive and most important is John Canemaker's commentary. Canemaker has a very soothing "If I talk like this, I can help put you to sleep" type of voice, which sometimes makes it a challenge to listen to the commentary. But it's quite thorough and he rarely falters or pauses. There's a 15-minute "Celebrating Dumbo" featurette that's more or less contemporary Disney people saying why they like the film. It's harmless and not as informative as one would like, but still is fun to watch. The art gallery is quite good too (over 150 stills, IIRC), featuring a lot of character artwork and even a bit of theme park stuff. The vintage excerpts (from The Reluctant Dragon and "Disneyland") are always fun to watch too, as are the trailers. There's several other features included (bonus shorts, storybooks, the music video), but I can't really say much about them beyond that they're there. And, of course, there's the sneak peek for the Dumbo II film that got canceled. It's quite interesting to see the direction they were going in, though I'm glad it wasn't made. It may have still been lousy movie even if it weren't a sequel to Dumbo.

albert

Does anyone know what's up with the Lion King? I thought it was out on DVD but Netflix says it has an unknown release date. Really wanted to rent it, too!

It's out of print, and wont be back until Fall 2011.

Some video stores should still have it available to rent though.

I have a problem with rating this one. The 'Big Top edition' as it was released in The Netherlands misses features the American version had. There has been a new edition in Europe this last February (or so) and was scheduled for the US as well, but has been postponed.

I will relate the most recent edition, yet to appear in the US:

Dumbo- Special Edition (2010)

Presentation: B

Very nice cover, beautiful slipcover (yes, Escapay, I like it!), the gold 'frame' gives it something extra, the characters Dumbo and Timothy are on model. Unfortunately, the disc itself is all grey.

Film Value: B

While it was never a favorite of mine, it has grown on me, and my last viewing has certainly enhanced my appreciation of this classic of Walt. There are a few hilarious scenes in it with Dumbo and the other elephants, which made me laugh out loud.

Video: A

Finally, a presentation that doesn't have all the grain of the previous two (!) Dutch editions. The 'Gold Collection' one was too dark and had a lot of grain in it, and so did the 'Big Top' (repackaging of the Gold, over here). Now I can finally enjoy the film the way it was meant.

Audio: A

No complaints here.

Extras: A-

Much, much better than what's usually on a one-disc Disney dvd. It has a nice 20 minute mini-documentary about the making of the film; some deleted scenes; the theatrical trailer and an audio commentary. I would have liked it if they had kept Canemaker's commentary. I haven't heard that one, actually (wasn't on the Dutch 'Big Top'), but I imagine nothing can be worse than the one that's on this disc, with, among others, Andreas Deja. A very dull commentary track that skips over every important aspect of the making of the film, but instead is filled with constant name-dropping: "this shot was animated by X, this was animated by Y, this was done by Z..."

All in all, I wish all one-disc Disney dvd's would get such treatment.

Coolmanio wrote:It's out of print, and wont be back until Fall 2011.

Some video stores should still have it available to rent though.

Aww. Thanks!

Presentation: A-

I like all the cover arts, but my favourite has to be the blu-ray

Film Value: A+

A classic at its best. Its short runtime feels brisk, but never rushed.

Video: B

Blu-ray will be better

Audio: A

Sounds fine.

Extras: A-

As already stated, it has some good features for a single disc release.

For the BD, I rate it:

Film: A+

Video: A+

they even fixed a particularly jarring flaw in animation

Audio: A

Extras: C+ thoroughly enjoyable, but lacking the magic.