DVDizzy Forum

This is a question I have asked myself time and time again when I have run across this in the different productions from Disney.
And I´m speaking reuse in the way of COMPLETLY COPYING.
What do you all think of this?

I recently have been looking to the cartoons from the 50´s and 60´s and I had forgot how much stuff that the studio reused in their productions during this time and into the 70´s as well.

Though it´s a fun cartoon I think GOLIATH II is the worst example of this.
In it I quickly noticed reusing of animation from the following earlier
Disneywork:
Dumbo
Bambi
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad
Peter Pan
Sleeping Beauty
Anyone that have noticed animation from some other feature or cartoon in it?

Another much used animation is from LAMBERT THE SHEEPISH LION, which you can find almost exactly copied in various cartoons with lions from this time, most notably SOCIAL LION.

In the feature lenght productions I think ROBIN HOOD is the worst.
In it they reused a whole sequence from SNOWWHITE, as you surely have noticed.

During the War years I think it was acceptable to reuse animation in the different propaganda and commercial shorts, to limit the costs, but after that I don´t think it was OK to do so. They could at least have tried to change it a little bit, so it shouldn´t have been so obvious.
Or did they think that noone had seen the cartoon before, just because it was (maybe) ten years since it was released?
Already then Disney had begun it´s program of reissuing their features and shorts - so it´s pretty strange that Disney himself allowed this - he was the one that wanted everything to be the best!

Yeah. I'm sure some of the animation from Jungle Book was traced (or re-used) in Jungle Book 2.

Not that this is a dig at the sequel - Beauty and the Beast reused animation from Sleeping Beauty and Bambi (that I know of, there are perhaps more)

Recycling animation from early efforts was very popular in the 60's and 70's, when Disney started to cut corners! There are some very interesting scenes in the features... let me just recap some of them!

The Sword in the Stone: the dear that Kay is hunting in the forest is Bambi's mother!!
The Jungle Book: the scene where the wolfs jump at Mowgli comes from a similar scene in "The Sword in the Stone". Bambi's mother also makes a cameo!
The Aristocatas: when O'Malley rescues Marie and jumps at the back of the car. This scene is from "101 Dalmatians"!
Robin Hood: the "dance" scequence in the forest reuses animation from "Snow White", "The Jungle Book" and "The Aristocats"!! Very annoying... Some animation of the film's characters is also repeated throughout the film. There is some animation from "101 Dalmatians" and "Jungle Book" used in other scenes too!
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh: the animation of Christopher Robin in the final film is from "The Jungle Book"... the various segments also use animation from the previous ones (just check out the scene where Christopher Robin and Rabbit jump at the fence: it appears in every segment!).
The Rescuers: during the sequence "Someone Is Waiting For You", you can see some animation of the animals from "Bambi"... the little dear and his mother also make a cameo!! The first shot of the Devil's Bayou also reuses a background from "The Jungle Book"... and the scene where Penny is running away through the forest, her animation comes from "JB" too!
The Fox and the Hound: When Todd is in the woods and it starts raining, animals from "Bambi" appear again... The "Wart squirrel" from "Sword in the Stone" can be seen too.
The Black Cauldron: The scene in which Taran enters the forest comes from "Sword in the Stone"!
Beauty and the Beast: The first shot show Bambi's mother (again) and some birds from that film. The final shot (Belle and Prince dancing) comes from "Sleeping Beauty".

Wow, did I miss something? [/b]

Joe Carioca wrote: Robin Hood: the "dance" scequence in the forest reuses animation from "Snow White", "The Jungle Book" and "The Aristocats"!! Very annoying... Some animation of the film's characters is also repeated throughout the film. There is some animation from "101 Dalmatians" and "Jungle Book" used in other scenes too!

The Rescuers: during the sequence "Someone Is Waiting For You", you can see some animation of the animals from "Bambi"... the little dear and his mother also make a cameo!! The first shot of the Blue Bayou also reuses a background from "The Jungle Book"... and the scene where Penny is running away through the forest, her animation comes from "JB" too!
[/b]

These two are the most obivious but you've got to remember after their first release these films when away for 7 years so no one would remember. At the end of the day I don't mind because I only notice because I've seen these films so many times, normal people wont notice because their not geeks like us. LOL

Though you can criticize it, there is no way to make them stop it.
And, frankly, do we even have a right to make this request? Recycling, footage (animated or otherwise: sometimes the film is also run backwards or flipped left to right), special effects, music, storylines, models, & backgrounds is up to the filmmaker and no one else. Toy Story II uses the same model of the tree in A Bug's Life. Should the animators have to spend millions of hours creating a new tree when they already have a perfectly good one in the library?

Walt himself recycled his films endlessly in order to promote Disneyland and to make enough money to realise his vision. It would have been absolutely impossible to create new footage for the TV shows, just because somebody might not have liked to see the same footage twice.

A whole (film) industry survives recycling already existing film. Just ask Roger Corman what he would have done if he couldn't recycle stuff. The instances you are listing are small peanuts compared the what the guy has done.

I say this because, though I am not an animator I work in design & project presentation. We reuse art ALL the time. I don't think the client has any right to request 100% new art if they are not willing to pay for it.
It may bug you, personally, but most people do not even notice it when it is well done and well blended into the new film.

A lot of the stuff you've mentioned (like Bambi's mother) are just cameos. Now how many cameos have we seen in Pixar films (enough is enough!)? But what exactly is wrong with them?

As for Beauty and the Beast using the dance scene from SB, again, what's wrong with that?????

Joe Carioca wrote:Recycling animation from early efforts was very popular in the 60's and 70's, when Disney started to cut corners! There are some very interesting scenes in the features... let me just recap some of them!

The Sword in the Stone: the dear that Kay is hunting in the forest is Bambi's mother!!
The Jungle Book: the scene where the wolfs jump at Mowgli comes from a similar scene in "The Sword in the Stone". Bambi's mother also makes a cameo!
The Aristocatas: when O'Malley rescues Marie and jumps at the back of the car. This scene is from "101 Dalmatians"!
Robin Hood: the "dance" scequence in the forest reuses animation from "Snow White", "The Jungle Book" and "The Aristocats"!! Very annoying... Some animation of the film's characters is also repeated throughout the film. There is some animation from "101 Dalmatians" and "Jungle Book" used in other scenes too!
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh: the animation of Christopher Robin in the final film is from "The Jungle Book"... the various segments also use animation from the previous ones (just check out the scene where Christopher Robin and Rabbit jump at the fence: it appears in every segment!).
The Rescuers: during the sequence "Someone Is Waiting For You", you can see some animation of the animals from "Bambi"... the little dear and his mother also make a cameo!! The first shot of the Devil's Bayou also reuses a background from "The Jungle Book"... and the scene where Penny is running away through the forest, her animation comes from "JB" too!
The Fox and the Hound: When Todd is in the woods and it starts raining, animals from "Bambi" appear again... The "Wart squirrel" from "Sword in the Stone" can be seen too.
The Black Cauldron: The scene in which Taran enters the forest comes from "Sword in the Stone"!
Beauty and the Beast: The first shot show Bambi's mother (again) and some birds from that film. The final shot (Belle and Prince dancing) comes from "Sleeping Beauty".

Wow, did I miss something? [/b]

I don't think so, it looks like everything I've ever noticed and more!!!

I don't think is bad to do it, when you have a budget or ran out of time it's a fast way to complete the movie plus i like seen cameo's in disney films. it's also nice to see that animator's now a days can make the exact same animation done 50 years + and make it look exact like Beauty and the Beast/sleeping beauty ending dance.

2099net wrote:Yeah. I'm sure some of the animation from Jungle Book was traced (or re-used) in Jungle Book 2.

Not that this is a dig at the sequel - Beauty and the Beast reused animation from Sleeping Beauty and Bambi (that I know of, there are perhaps more)

Huh? How? Where? This whole thread is confusing me

First of all, I didn't know that Disney did that, taking some scenes out of one movie and putting them into another. I've seen Pixar do some stuff, like take some characters in one movie and have them in another, but actually taking a chunk (even for a few seconds) sounds mighty strange to me.

I thought the dance scene at the end was soo nice, and while I thought it was similar to the end of Sleeping Beauty, for me, that only made it nicer, I think more of there fairytale movies should end that way, but only ones that are on the level of BATB and SB .

Interesting to know what you think in this, but I think you misunderstood me a little - I was NOT talking of cameos of carachters from earlier films - this I think is rather neat in fact! - I was speaking of reusing animation, movements and such things, from earlier films which are inserted in new carachters movements and intended to be show as something new in a new feature.
I was also not speaking of Disney himself reusing much of the stuff in his TV shows - I was speaking of theathrical features and cartoons - not things made for the TV market. For TV I understand why they did it - but I think when they spend a lot of money on a new theatrical feature it should be new animation and not old that we have seen before. Hope it´s more clear now what I meant. Sorry...

Chernabog wrote:
Interesting to know what you think in this, but I think you misunderstood me a little - I was NOT talking of cameos of carachters from earlier films - this I think is rather neat in fact! - I was speaking of reusing animation, movements and such things, from earlier films which are inserted in new carachters movements and intended to be show as something new in a new feature.
I was also not speaking of Disney himself reusing much of the stuff in his TV shows - I was speaking of theathrical features and cartoons - not things made for the TV market. For TV I understand why they did it - but I think when they spend a lot of money on a new theatrical feature it should be new animation and not old that we have seen before. Hope it´s more clear now what I meant. Sorry...

I know what you meant

Yes, MickeyMouseboy is on the right track as always!

I can't see a problem with it.

Motion pictures use stock footage all the time, of bits from other films as pick-up shots or whatever.

Animation takes even more work, so I can't see the harm in cutting corners a little bit here and there, as long as the end product looks good.

The average punter wouldn't even notice...

I think that its cool that disney adds little things from other movies.... its obviously not trying to bring in parts from other movies... but its giving it the disney touch that we all love! and it's refreshing to see the disney that you know and point it out in the movies. Personally I like that aspect.

IggieKuzco wrote:I think that its cool that disney adds little things from other movies.... its obviously not trying to bring in parts from other movies... but its giving it the disney touch that we all love! and it's refreshing to see the disney that you know and point it out in the movies. Personally I like that aspect.

We're not talking about cameo's or Hidden Mickey's. We're talking about whole sequences that are traced from older animation to save money.

The closing dance from Sleeping Beauty/Beauty and the Beast and the Snow White/Robin Hood dance are excellent examples.

I see nothing wrong with it really. Especially as the reuse is just to get the movements - all the images are still redrawn to conform to the new characters' apperences. But perhaps it will show to some that WDFA is not flawless.

Are people going to complain about all the establishing shots in TV series like Will and Grace and Friends next?

We're not talking about cameo's or Hidden Mickey's. We're talking about whole sequences that are traced from older animation to save money.

I get that... but i still see nothing wrong with it! So they saved a little money! also, i think its nice because you're familiar with the enviorment the movie os taking place in and it's kind of nice. even if you don't realize this consionsly, it still gives a nice feeling about whatever it is. sort of like home. I didn't realize this until i saw people bringing it up here, and i think it's very interesting because i always actually felt very relaxed and calm with those kinds of scenes...! (familiarity...!)

The closing dance from Sleeping Beauty/Beauty and the Beast and the Snow White/Robin Hood dance are excellent examples.

another thing you have to remember, is that it's not always that easy for people to figure out how to draw people or animals dancing.... so why not work off previous work???? Personally i think that it's a pretty smart idea...

I think it's fine, though it always bugged me when I watched Robin Hood and saw the part when someone grabs the elephant's nose. The same thing happened in Jungle Book. Besides that, I don't care.

I revisited some of the old cartoons again and found another of this reused scenes (that sometimes bother me very much, but not so much in this one!)

In the cartoon from 1957: The Truth About Mother Goose they reuse a scene where Mary is running down a stair, stops and look back up the stair - this is the same animation cycle that were used for Cinderella, when she runs down the stairs and drops one of her glass-slippers.

Funny that I have never noticed this before - I have seen this cartoons many many times.