DVDizzy Forum

Take a look at this thread on HomeTheaterForum:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum ... genumber=1

For those too lazy to click, it's basically been confirmed by someone at WB that the Wizard of Oz is currently receiving a brand new restoration job, most likely by Lowry Digital. This is the same team that did the brilliant restorations for the new Gone with the Wind: SE, Singin' in the Rain, the Stars Wars Trilogy, the Indiana Jones trilogy, and, of course, our beloved Disney titles such as Snow White, Alice in Wonderland, and Sleeping Beauty. This can only mean that WB's prepping up a multi-disc SE in the future for this new restoration. I'm extremely excited about this. The current DVD is great as it is in both picture and extras, but you can always improve on it (and I know a Lowry restoration on Oz will be jaw dropping). Someone on the thread above mentioned a rumor about a 3-disc Edition. Here are some improvements I'd like to see over the current (and excellent) single disc:

* The commentary track from the laserdisc
* Perhaps a new commentary track by either a film historian or an Ozphile
* An alternate audio track that synchs up Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" to the film
* The full versions of those vintage Oz films that showed up on the single disc in brief excerpts
* A better interface for the galleries as well as more stills. On the current disc, you have to wade through each individual picture. Thumbnails would be greatly appreciated and there are things that can be added to the collection such as concept art and publicity materials.
* Some sort of slideshow to play for the audio features. The audio features on the single disc have the same static image which can burn into your TV considering how lengthy they are.
* The correct audio for "The Jitterbug" scene. For some reason WB used a nasty rehearsal demo to synch up to the home movie footage instead of the song's final score (which, bizarrely enough, the WB VHS had correctly).
* More of Harold Arlen's home movies which I know exist because brief snippets appear in the "making of" that didn't show up on the rest of the disc
* More retrospective interviews from the cast, or just give us the entire PBS special that the single disc's interviews came from
* Animated menus with score instead of the mostly static ones

Ok, yes, I've rambled on too much, but this excites me very much. I wonder when we can expect WB to release this new restored DVD. I'd like a 2005 release, but that's probably too soon considering they just started work on the film.

Great to hear! After finishing GWTW's 4-Disc set, I got to thinking about Oz, and wondered if there was any news on a new edition. I'd pick up a 2-Disc set in a hearbeat, since I don't own the current 1-disc version. Looks like another great disc to look forward to in 2005!

*Goes giddy* I've been expecting this news to break in the near future, but it's no less thrilling to hear it now. A 3 Discer would be awesome! This film deserves Grade-A+ treatment. I haven't yet gotten Gone With The Wind CE in the mail, but I'm anxiously awaiting it and will know more of what to expect for Oz then. DK, your suggestions are great.

Disneykid wrote:* An alternate audio track that synchs up Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" to the film

That would be AWESOME, but do you think they could work out the rights?

-Aaron

This is exciting news! I always thought that Oz never got a fair DVD treatment, considering that it is one of the biggest movies of all time. It really was amazing for those seeing it back then. And with a new restoration, this should be amazing! I own the single disc release, but it is in fullscreen. I just pray to god they don't mess with the film, ala Star Wars. But, its okay if they put the original verison with it, ala E.T.

Sith: Oz was made in 1939 which was a while before widescreen movies were made, so the way the movie looks on DVD is the way it was made; nothing's cropped off. The same goes for Disney movies like Snow White, Pinocchio, Cinderella, and Alice in Wonderland.

Aaron: I have no idea, but I would so freaking love it if they could. Someone else on that thread briefly mentioned something about the possibility of WB buying out EMI records. If that happens, we could almost certainly expect an alternate Pink Floyd track for Oz. I do know that one time (I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago), TCM had a special showing of the movie with the option to access the Floyd album as an alternate audio track. If they were able to do that then, I don't see what's stopping them now. Then again, people are more anal about their music showing up on home video than on tv for some reason.

The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of extras that were included on the laserdisc set. Include them and a new transfer and it will be cool. There are a few things I hope that they tinker with...namely there are a few shots where you can see a string here and there holding things up, they should digitally remove them and anything else like that. Also, more deleted scenes would be cool if they could find them.

Maerj wrote:The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of extras that were included on the laserdisc set. Include them and a new transfer and it will be cool.

Now you've got me intrigued. What did the laserdisc have that the WB DVD didn't have? I know it had a commentary track, but I thought that was the only thing the DVD was missing (according to the DVD reviews I've read, anyway).

Lots of additional music alternate and deleted songs, clips from an animated Wizard of Oz, behind the scenes of the tornado, tons and tons of stuff. The commentary was the biggest omission. It was excellent and should have been included. The DVD was okay, but the LD had more, I can't even remember all the stuff that was on it.

WB should get with Disney and Release Road to OZ 4 Disc set of both movies they can have the Special Edition of Return cut baruza balk and impose Judy in wouldnt that make our day!?

Since i have the LD box, I typed all the stuff that was on it and then when i hit submit guess what happened.

I'll be in the hospital for a few days


I also talked about the 3 different color renditions I already have (this SE would be the fourth) and how they were made and how they differed from each other and from this one

I'll be getting a few fingers replaced


If the operation works I might try to do it again.


btw the audio extras were about 4 to 5 hours
and there was a script book, 8x10 glossies and a 36" x 24" poster among other things included in the box

well at least one finger is still working

Disneykid wrote: * The correct audio for "The Jitterbug" scene. For some reason WB used a nasty rehearsal demo to synch up to the home movie footage instead of the song's final score (which, bizarrely enough, the WB VHS had correctly).

Wow...wonder who goofed that up. We've had our Wizard of Oz tape for about 15 years now (I think it's the 1989 release with those extras at the end), and I always loved hearing the bonus Jitterbug. I guess it's a good thing I haven't gotten the current DVD yet.

Escapay

Ah, crap, I'll have to replace my old DVD.

And is it just me, or do the colors at times seem to be a bit....fuzzy? Like the frames weren't always properly aligned?

That's the result from the three Technicolor negatives not being in perfect alignment when the interpositive was made from them.

Disneykid wrote:Sith: Oz was made in 1939 which was a while before widescreen movies were made, so the way the movie looks on DVD is the way it was made; nothing's cropped off. The same goes for Disney movies like Snow White, Pinocchio, Cinderella, and Alice in Wonderland.

I thought that maybey the case, but I wasn't sure, because there was a trailer on the DVD that appeared to be in widescreen. Perhaps they did the unthinkable and actually chopped of the top and bottom as most fools think is the case?

That's exactly what they did to the 1999 re-issue trailer. I have no idea if the actual movie was shown that way in theaters, but I would think WB would have enough common sense not to do that.

Maerj wrote:Lots of additional music alternate and deleted songs, clips from an animated Wizard of Oz, behind the scenes of the tornado, tons and tons of stuff.

All of that stuff's on the DVD. There's hours of alternate takes, demos, and cut songs, Oz interstitials by Chuck Jones and an older animated short from the 30's, as well as test footage of the tornado effects and text pieces on the process.

Disneykid wrote:That's exactly what they did to the 1999 re-issue trailer. I have no idea if the actual movie was shown that way in theaters, but I would think WB would have enough common sense not to do that.

Maerj wrote:Lots of additional music alternate and deleted songs, clips from an animated Wizard of Oz, behind the scenes of the tornado, tons and tons of stuff.

All of that stuff's on the DVD. There's hours of alternate takes, demos, and cut songs, Oz interstitials by Chuck Jones and an older animated short from the 30's, as well as test footage of the tornado effects and text pieces on the process.

I think that the LD box set had a bit more though. Oh well, doesn't matter if they are making a new set anyway.

Horray, I am excited, I LOVE the Wizard of Oz, but only have a crappy copy that was taped off the tv like the year I was born, however, it is humorous to see the old school commericals

Potentially cool, but what was wrong with the restoration that was already done to it?

The current restoration is quite good, but technology's advanced since 1999, and now the film can look even better than it already does. For example, some portions of the film look a bit soft because there were some alignment issues from what I've read. With the new transfer, the film will remain consistantly sharp and defined. Colors will be bolder, grain will be virtually non-existant, and there won't be any print flaws at all (some speckles occasionally appear here and there on the current transfer, especially during the sepia tone bits).

Another thing the LD had was the original soundtrack, the latest dvd has the remixed one from what I've read. Hopefully the new edition will include both.

btw The Wizard of Oz's aspect ratio is 1.375

ohmahaaha wrote:Potentially cool, but what was wrong with the restoration that was already done to it?

mmm well...

the new transfer will be done in a totally different way.

Basically the best way that can be done now, the way all Technicolor 3-strip films should be done


The first version of Oz I have is from a made for TV print, that probably was made specially by Technicolor for TV (Kalmus talks about Technicolor making such prints in his book) which means contrast adjusted for telecine (as opossed to true theatrical prints that have very high contrast) and probably the dyes were chosen and adjusted for early (superior) TV color phosphours. The reason i say this is cus i've seen this version on a regular Sony TV and it didn't look particulary exciting. But then one day i saw it in my old gramdmother's TV set which seems had a different set of phosphours and suddenly i was seeing the best colors I've evers seen on the Wizard of Oz!, the yellow brick road was lemony bright psicodelic yellow, the greens had several saturated hues going from lime to deep emerald to cianish green, the reds where ruby red, etc etc, perfect. (Sadly that TV tube died and i've yet to find info on it's phosphour set ) I've never seen the colors so "right" again.

Then there was the mgm laserdisc, made from a Technicolor regular print, it had much higher contrast and the colors, tho saturated were off, for example the yellow brick road was orange. The sepia sequence was sharp on this one

Then there was the THX Ultimate Oz laserdisc transfer, this was made from a (low contrast, orange dye mask) Eastmancolor interpositive struck from the 3 b/w Technicolor negatives (I'll quote the LD booklet: "The laser disc was digitally mastered from a new interpositive manufactured from M-G-M's original nitrate 3-strip Technicolor negatives. (The B & W footage was transfered from M-G-M's 35mm fine grain elements.)"


EDIT upon re-reading the booklet, I realized that when they said "The B & W footage" they must have been referring to the SEPIA toned part
Since the 3-strip Technicolor negatives ARE B & W footage I thought they were refering to them the first time I read it

so I've rewritten the next paragraph to be accurate

"fine grain" elements usually means "fine grain copies" or prints of original negatives (as oposed to normal prints) so the sepia parts were also not transfered from the original negatives and are also 2nd generation, just like the color part interpositive made from the 3-strip negatives is 2nd generation

Supossedly i heard the original b/w negative for the sepia section was lost.

The THX Laserdisc colors were pretty and more accurate in most cases but for example the yellow still didnt look lemony bright Technicolor Yellow. just yellow unlike the first transfer i mentioned.

The sepia sequence was softer on this one

After that there have been 2 DVDs. And I've read conflicting reporst on those. (I haven't seen them) I've read that they were better and that the colorswere brighter and more saturated than the THX LD, but i've also read that the first DVD had better more saturated colors than the second one, and I've also read that the second one is better than the first!.. Supposedly the sepia sequence was different on both too..

on the web i've seen a comparison of the PAL DVD (which apparently had only one edition) and the latest NTSC one. the main difference (on the pics) is that the NTSC's gamma is lower (threfore it looks brighter) If you adjust the gamma (increase the NTSC by 1.13 (about the difference between a CRT's reportedly native gamma (2.5) and the "Video" gamma (2.2) ) they look virtually identical, EXCEPT the NTSC seems to have a red push (you can see it on Dorothys ruby slippers and her lipstick) Those web images look similar to the way I remember the THX Laserdisc. I've never seen captutres comparing the 2 US dvd versions tho.

Which brings us to the next version.
Since they are gonna be using the WB "Ultraresolution" process that supposedly means they are gonna scan the 3 strip b/w negatives (the 1rst generation, less grain, more sharpness, more tonal values, and since it's in b/w, the purest color) and then asign RGB channels to each and combine them electronically (or digitally as it's called today so no dye impurities cross color contamination errors as what happens everytime yuou copy somnething in Eastmancolor stock (even with the orange based dye mask that is there to minimize those errors there's always color errors due to the nature of color dyes)

so THEORETICALLY this Wizard of OZ could look as pure as can be.

Except

for the limitations of the SMPTE "C"/PAL/HDTV/sRGB color phosphour set, which doen't come close to Technicolor primaries nor original NTSC ones (which were very near Technicolor) much less true life colors

I don't know if when they do the RGB merging they do it using special displays using true pure red green blue filters and that's how the RGB master is mixed or if they go directly into an SMPTE "C"/PAL/HDTV/sRGB matrix and adjust the colors using that. (As was probably done on the THX LD with SMPTE "C" colors)

Anyway the most important thing for the DVD edition in the end would be that they had an original Technicolor print with the correct intended hues for reference and the colorist to know his stuff


Also, since they scan the separate black and whites into digital data at high resolution, they can align the three images togueter digitally so the misalignments should dissapear
(on a conventional print, since the position is set mechanically by the sprockets not much you can do there now usually, unless you rephotograph the image trough lens and loose quality (The old Technicolor printing lab facilities had special mechanisms to correct that physically when contract printing the separations without having to do the optical lense step, but normal 35mm lab equipment don't have that)

So that's your new restoration, and why it could be better, sharper, less grainy, more pure
If they do it right.

One day we'll have LED displays with true Technicolor/Original NTSC primaries (or better!) and we'll have yet new remasters, I can see the dvd stickers already: "Now in their original Glorious Technicolor Splendor!"