Cinderella Discussion
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blackcauldron85
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
That's wonderful news!!!! We still have no idea if the new 4K disc will be mastered from this ... We'll just have to wait for reviews to come in I suppose.
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Oh, wow. It looks way, way better. That's wonderful news!!!
The clip provided by Marce made a bit nostalgic. When I was a kid, I had a German copy of the movie on VHS, even though I don't speak the language, but it was dubbed over in Romanian. I remember I watched it a whole lot in my childhood.
The clip provided by Marce made a bit nostalgic. When I was a kid, I had a German copy of the movie on VHS, even though I don't speak the language, but it was dubbed over in Romanian. I remember I watched it a whole lot in my childhood.
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Disney Duster
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
AHHHHHHH!!!!!
Ok, now that's out of the way, yes I saw this a few hours ago, and YES I am happy. No, ecstatic. It's a new restoration, first of all. That alone would have me excited, because it meant they listened to and at least tried again for fans. Second, it actually looks good and faithful. How faithful? Let's discuss!
The first thing I looked for after being astounded by the new transfer clip was the Fairy Godmother's blouse or top or whatever under her cloak. In the Laserdsic, and all previous versions till the 2005 DVD, it was lighter than her cloak and skirt:
In the 2005 Platinum and Blu-rays, it was mistakenly made the same color as the rest of her outfit:
For Berlinale's 2023 clip, it's finally back to being lighter, but now the Fairy Godmother's ensemble looks very blue:
In the transformation, the magic dust in the Laserdisc looked like this;
The 2005 restoration botched it and the DVD and Blu-rays made some of that dust disappear. Especially look above Cindy's arms and head:
But it's all finally back, in Berlinale 2023's clip!:
So, it looks like we got the linework and magic dust and details all back, but the colors are questionable. So, are the colors wrong?
Here are two cels from the film:
Cinderella's dress is very gray, and her hair is very mustard gold. I have always liked her hair like that, so I can't complain that this restoration has that color. The cels of the Fairy Godmother have usually been very purple, though, from what I have seen. So why does her costume look so blue now? Did it look blue in the Black Diamond Classics VHS? I remember thinking it was blue as a child, but maybe the 2005 restoration had the colors more right?! Maybe Cinderella's hair was more brownish orange and the Fairy Godmother's costume more blueish purple.
What I think maybe happened was Disney may have not color-timed the negatives properly. You see, cels have different colors when timed in Technirama or whatever. Maybe Cinderella didn't have Technirama, but I have a little anecdote I need to share. When DIsney restored Sleeping Beauty again in 2008, they saw the cels of Aurora had green hair. So they had to do the right Technirama color timing to get the gold shade. That's what they said anyway (I can't recall seeing Aurora cels with green hair). So, I dunno what's going on with the colors. I actually LIKE most of the colors of the 2005 restoration! It was just the disappearing lines and magic dust that bothered me (and Cindy's dress not being silver enough at the entrance of the ball). BUT I still like what Berlinale has!
So, in conclusion, I guess Disney may not have done the film as faithful as it could be yet again, but this new transfer with all the details intact, I will very, very happily take. In fact, this honestly is a dream come true. It doesn't just make my day. It makes my LIFE. I even prayed for this! So, this is a Godsend and I'm ecstatic.
Ok, now that's out of the way, yes I saw this a few hours ago, and YES I am happy. No, ecstatic. It's a new restoration, first of all. That alone would have me excited, because it meant they listened to and at least tried again for fans. Second, it actually looks good and faithful. How faithful? Let's discuss!
The first thing I looked for after being astounded by the new transfer clip was the Fairy Godmother's blouse or top or whatever under her cloak. In the Laserdsic, and all previous versions till the 2005 DVD, it was lighter than her cloak and skirt:
In the 2005 Platinum and Blu-rays, it was mistakenly made the same color as the rest of her outfit:
For Berlinale's 2023 clip, it's finally back to being lighter, but now the Fairy Godmother's ensemble looks very blue:
In the transformation, the magic dust in the Laserdisc looked like this;
The 2005 restoration botched it and the DVD and Blu-rays made some of that dust disappear. Especially look above Cindy's arms and head:
But it's all finally back, in Berlinale 2023's clip!:
So, it looks like we got the linework and magic dust and details all back, but the colors are questionable. So, are the colors wrong?
Here are two cels from the film:
Cinderella's dress is very gray, and her hair is very mustard gold. I have always liked her hair like that, so I can't complain that this restoration has that color. The cels of the Fairy Godmother have usually been very purple, though, from what I have seen. So why does her costume look so blue now? Did it look blue in the Black Diamond Classics VHS? I remember thinking it was blue as a child, but maybe the 2005 restoration had the colors more right?! Maybe Cinderella's hair was more brownish orange and the Fairy Godmother's costume more blueish purple.
What I think maybe happened was Disney may have not color-timed the negatives properly. You see, cels have different colors when timed in Technirama or whatever. Maybe Cinderella didn't have Technirama, but I have a little anecdote I need to share. When DIsney restored Sleeping Beauty again in 2008, they saw the cels of Aurora had green hair. So they had to do the right Technirama color timing to get the gold shade. That's what they said anyway (I can't recall seeing Aurora cels with green hair). So, I dunno what's going on with the colors. I actually LIKE most of the colors of the 2005 restoration! It was just the disappearing lines and magic dust that bothered me (and Cindy's dress not being silver enough at the entrance of the ball). BUT I still like what Berlinale has!
So, in conclusion, I guess Disney may not have done the film as faithful as it could be yet again, but this new transfer with all the details intact, I will very, very happily take. In fact, this honestly is a dream come true. It doesn't just make my day. It makes my LIFE. I even prayed for this! So, this is a Godsend and I'm ecstatic.
Last edited by Disney Duster on Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Disney's Divinity
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
I'm glad we know it looks at least a little better, perhaps more (we'll know more later, I suppose). Especially the dust around Cinderella's dress transformation being more full. That's not nothing, I'm happy for you, Duster. 
Listening to most often lately:
Ariana Grande ~ "we can't be friends (wait for your love)"
Ariana Grande ~ "imperfect for you"
Kacey Musgraves ~ "The Architect"
Re: Cinderella Discussion
It so great that Cinderella has gotten a better restoration. It's true that the colors look more natural in the Blu-ray than in the new video (at least to me), but it's difficult to know which are the real colors. I hope they haven't made everything bluer just so the dress looks a bit blue because of the Disney princess brand. Anyway, at least it seems they've corrected the glaring mistakes of the previous restoration.
I like the idea for the cover. Of course, I would prefer the dress wasn't blue, but then the concept of using it as a canvas to show the castle and all that blue landscape wouldn't work, so I don't mind it that much this time. I hope this is provisional and they redraw it a bit, though, so it's not all recycled clip art. I think they've done things like that in the past, right?
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Disney Duster
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
Thanks so much for saying that, Divinity!
D82, I wondered if they were trying to blue up Cinderella's gown, too, but I don't think so. It looks a pretty bluish silver to me, and the 2005 restoration almost made it purplish silver, so I prefer this blue one. Also, Disney lately has been making Cinderella merchandise in silver, or bluish silver at least, so they may not be trying to put her in blue these days. And yes, they have re-drawn covers in the past, but usually when the preliminary drawings are drawn badly. I doubt they would re-draw this one, though I wish they would, like you.
D82, I wondered if they were trying to blue up Cinderella's gown, too, but I don't think so. It looks a pretty bluish silver to me, and the 2005 restoration almost made it purplish silver, so I prefer this blue one. Also, Disney lately has been making Cinderella merchandise in silver, or bluish silver at least, so they may not be trying to put her in blue these days. And yes, they have re-drawn covers in the past, but usually when the preliminary drawings are drawn badly. I doubt they would re-draw this one, though I wish they would, like you.
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Hey all,
Before anything... Teppy (aka Vlad): I don't get it. Was the audio of yr Cinderella VHS in German or Romanian?? Or do you mean they spoke in Romanian but you could still hear the German underneath??
For those of us who care... this new transfer is a VAST improvement. The amount of detail, boldness of lines is drastically better than the bluray/dvd. And character outlines have not been cropped off (specially in the transformation scene; pay attention to her thumbs/fingers, good way to notice).
As for the very debated colors... I am generally happy with the new transfer, but I agree with fareb: hair isn't right.
I don't think the Disney team in the 1950s intended for her hair to be mustard-yellow... (who in real life has mustard colored hair???) there are production notes where her hair is referred to as "titian" (a dark strawberry blonde).
Note: I also don't think her lips were intended to be quite that saturated, but it's a minor nit pick.
As far as cel colors go: the color on a cel now will not be the same it was 70 years ago... they fade/change over time, specially when not properly stored (and if Aurora's hair was turning green... seems Cinderella's would too, which would lead to a mustard blonde instead of strawberry). We know the Disney artwork was not properly stored until the 90's (from Roy Disney). I am not sure I have seen a Cinderella cel in person, but I HAVE seen SB and SW cels, original ones... and the colors are quite faded.
Moreover... the Disney team would not have picked the colors based on what looked good on a cel, but what looked good once the cel was photographed and the film had been developed. The color in the final film is was mattered to them (hence why they did color tests ON FILM).
So what I am looking at is the color relationship between the skin tone and the hair tone. Was the hair color intended to be that light in relation to the skin? I really doubt it. If we look at the B/W segment of Cinderella in that Tv special from the 50s (bonus in the Sword in the Stone dvd), we can see the hair is way darker than the skin. And then I look at unrestored frames like these:
https://ibb.co/bXTKpvR
https://ibb.co/gw0q1kc
Are the colors the right ones? Maybe... but look at the tonal relationship between the skin and hair... just saying. I actually think the color relationships overall are better on the laserdisc.
All of this said... I am thrilled with the new transfer, and I sure hope we get than on blu ray and Disney+ .... it seems the linework issue has been resolved. That's enough for me.
Before anything... Teppy (aka Vlad): I don't get it. Was the audio of yr Cinderella VHS in German or Romanian?? Or do you mean they spoke in Romanian but you could still hear the German underneath??
For those of us who care... this new transfer is a VAST improvement. The amount of detail, boldness of lines is drastically better than the bluray/dvd. And character outlines have not been cropped off (specially in the transformation scene; pay attention to her thumbs/fingers, good way to notice).
As for the very debated colors... I am generally happy with the new transfer, but I agree with fareb: hair isn't right.
I don't think the Disney team in the 1950s intended for her hair to be mustard-yellow... (who in real life has mustard colored hair???) there are production notes where her hair is referred to as "titian" (a dark strawberry blonde).
Note: I also don't think her lips were intended to be quite that saturated, but it's a minor nit pick.
As far as cel colors go: the color on a cel now will not be the same it was 70 years ago... they fade/change over time, specially when not properly stored (and if Aurora's hair was turning green... seems Cinderella's would too, which would lead to a mustard blonde instead of strawberry). We know the Disney artwork was not properly stored until the 90's (from Roy Disney). I am not sure I have seen a Cinderella cel in person, but I HAVE seen SB and SW cels, original ones... and the colors are quite faded.
Moreover... the Disney team would not have picked the colors based on what looked good on a cel, but what looked good once the cel was photographed and the film had been developed. The color in the final film is was mattered to them (hence why they did color tests ON FILM).
So what I am looking at is the color relationship between the skin tone and the hair tone. Was the hair color intended to be that light in relation to the skin? I really doubt it. If we look at the B/W segment of Cinderella in that Tv special from the 50s (bonus in the Sword in the Stone dvd), we can see the hair is way darker than the skin. And then I look at unrestored frames like these:
https://ibb.co/bXTKpvR
https://ibb.co/gw0q1kc
Are the colors the right ones? Maybe... but look at the tonal relationship between the skin and hair... just saying. I actually think the color relationships overall are better on the laserdisc.
All of this said... I am thrilled with the new transfer, and I sure hope we get than on blu ray and Disney+ .... it seems the linework issue has been resolved. That's enough for me.
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Hey Marce, yes, the original audio in German was still audible, but there was a voice actor dubbing the movie in Romanian over the original dialogue.
Meanwhile, I found these comparisons on Instagram. This reminds of The Little Mermaid's restoration issues. Back when the Platinum Edition came out, the lineart was practically missing in the restored footage. But the Diamond Edition fixed that. Same thing with Cinderella. The lineart in the newly restored footage is clearly visible, especially on Cinderella's ballgown.
Meanwhile, I found these comparisons on Instagram. This reminds of The Little Mermaid's restoration issues. Back when the Platinum Edition came out, the lineart was practically missing in the restored footage. But the Diamond Edition fixed that. Same thing with Cinderella. The lineart in the newly restored footage is clearly visible, especially on Cinderella's ballgown.
Last edited by Vlad on Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Ooooh.... gotcha Teppy. Now I get the nostalgia! I grew up with the films dubbed in Spanish, but you couldn't hear any other language underneath.
Back to colors... look at the 70s reissue trailer below. Look at her skin, lips, eyes and hair during "A Wish is a Dream your heart makes" .... doesn't that look natural??? (maybe a little faded... but the color relationships)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQq4uLUac9M
Back to colors... look at the 70s reissue trailer below. Look at her skin, lips, eyes and hair during "A Wish is a Dream your heart makes" .... doesn't that look natural??? (maybe a little faded... but the color relationships)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQq4uLUac9M
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Someone on Blu-ray.com had this to say regarding the hair:
Actually, I've seen an IB Technicolor print of this, and I was shocked to find her hair was a dirty dishwater blonde like it appears here. The 1995 restoration done for the Masterpiece Collection also depicts her like that. I admit I prefer the peach color because it's more evocative of the 1950s, but accuracy is more important.
Re: Cinderella Discussion
The background is less visible on the 4K in the photos that Vlad Sicoe has posted.
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Disney Duster
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
Thanks for your input, Marce82! I, too, just needed the detail back. I wonder if, because of what Farerb said from that Blu-ray poster, the hair color is right. And I, too, noticed the backgrounds are darker in the new restoration, Farerb. I don't know if that is good or bad, right or wrong, but I did like seeing the backgrounds more in the 2005 restoration. Still, this 2023 restoration is the one I prefer!
Someone on Blu-ray.com also said the 4K steelbook comes out in wide release August 1st, and the regular Blu-ray October 17th!
Someone on Blu-ray.com also said the 4K steelbook comes out in wide release August 1st, and the regular Blu-ray October 17th!
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I don't think I'd be able to wait that much. I have a friend who can get it for me from the Movie Club. 
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Haralampos
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
I'm so excited bout the new transfer (finally)! Cinderella was the second Disney VHS movie I owned (first being The Lion King) and it has a great place in my heart.
Actually I don't take any old analogue master seriously cause of the medium being highly problematic and those old yellowish/faded cells from various sources are not that trustworthy anymore, it helps but still. Any pictured stuff can easily look different in depends of the camera settings or scanner. I'm sure on HDR will look wonderful and all the darker parts will show up on screen. Sometimes goldish ink have a bit of a green pigment, maybe that's why it looks like this (?).
I hope it comes on Disney+ as well, can't wait for the wide release cause there's no 4K releases in my country anymore.
Actually I don't take any old analogue master seriously cause of the medium being highly problematic and those old yellowish/faded cells from various sources are not that trustworthy anymore, it helps but still. Any pictured stuff can easily look different in depends of the camera settings or scanner. I'm sure on HDR will look wonderful and all the darker parts will show up on screen. Sometimes goldish ink have a bit of a green pigment, maybe that's why it looks like this (?).
I hope it comes on Disney+ as well, can't wait for the wide release cause there's no 4K releases in my country anymore.
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Thumper_93
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
Are we going to have a regular release in october? I live in Spain and I can not buy through Disney Movie club. I searched at eBay and they are asking more of 40$ for a copy and the delivery is quite expensive tooDisney Duster wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:54 am Thanks for your input, Marce82! I, too, just needed the detail back. I wonder if, because of what Farerb said from that Blu-ray poster, the hair color is right. And I, too, noticed the backgrounds are darker in the new restoration, Farerb. I don't know if that is good or bad, right or wrong, but I did like seeing the backgrounds more in the 2005 restoration. Still, this 2023 restoration is the one I prefer!
Someone on Blu-ray.com also said the 4K steelbook comes out in wide release August 1st, and the regular Blu-ray October 17th!
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Disney Duster
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
Yes, Thumper_93, we in ths US are getting the regular Blu-ray of this film October 17th! I don't know about Spain.
I gotta say, blackcauldron85, you're a genius for finding the Berlinale Cinderella news! And Marce82, you're a genius for finding the clip on the web site! Amy, how did you ever find out about Berlinale's showing of the film?
I gotta say, blackcauldron85, you're a genius for finding the Berlinale Cinderella news! And Marce82, you're a genius for finding the clip on the web site! Amy, how did you ever find out about Berlinale's showing of the film?
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Thumper_93
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
Thanks! Them I will buy it at Amazon.comDisney Duster wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:19 pm Yes, Thumper_93, we in ths US are getting the regular Blu-ray of this film October 17th! I don't know about Spain.
I gotta say, blackcauldron85, you're a genius for finding the Berlinale Cinderella news! And Marce82, you're a genius for finding the clip on the web site! Amy, how did you ever find out about Berlinale's showing of the film?
In Spain we are not having 4K editions of the classics. They are going to release The Little Mermaid in March but it is the same disc than the American version, without Castillian Spanish so I don't have hope on them releasing Cinderella
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Disney's Divinity
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
I mean, I'm not an authority at all on if the colors are finally right or anything (I wish the dress was closer to white like that laserdisc shot at the top of the page), but it makes sense to me for Cinderella's hair to be that sort of "dirty dishwater blonde" color considering she's standing in the dark in this scene. Probably the same as it would look in the "So This Is Love" scene.
All those comparison shots make me happy considering it looks so much better even if there's still naturally some question if this is 100% correct or not. Either way, it's much closer to correct than in the past, so there's that. I love how the backgrounds look, too.
All those comparison shots make me happy considering it looks so much better even if there's still naturally some question if this is 100% correct or not. Either way, it's much closer to correct than in the past, so there's that. I love how the backgrounds look, too.
Listening to most often lately:
Ariana Grande ~ "we can't be friends (wait for your love)"
Ariana Grande ~ "imperfect for you"
Kacey Musgraves ~ "The Architect"
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Disney Duster
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
You're welcome Thumper_93, and I'm sorry you aren't getting 4Ks in Spain, but at least you can get them from Amazon!
Nice celebrating avvy and siggy, Divinity! I should do the same... Yes, so a poster said the Technicolor print had this color hair, but Marce82 said Disney production notes said she had titian hair. Oh well, like Divinity said, this one's closer to correct than we had before! I'll take these complete lines and magic dust, with colors that are still pretty (I love Cindy's blonde hair!)!
Nice celebrating avvy and siggy, Divinity! I should do the same... Yes, so a poster said the Technicolor print had this color hair, but Marce82 said Disney production notes said she had titian hair. Oh well, like Divinity said, this one's closer to correct than we had before! I'll take these complete lines and magic dust, with colors that are still pretty (I love Cindy's blonde hair!)!
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blackcauldron85
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Re: Cinderella Discussion
It was in an article on CartoonBrew.com! The article title didn't mention Cinderella, but as I read the article I saw it mentioned!Disney Duster wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:19 pm Amy, how did you ever find out about Berlinale's showing of the film?