Wish

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carolinakid
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Re: Wish

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Wish
Last edited by carolinakid on Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
carolinakid
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Re: Wish

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Just the observations of a non expert...

Princess Asha ethnically looks to me to be more sub Saharan (black) African, although her hair style and dress remind me more of the way they usually portray Egyptian or other Semitic looking people from North Africa and the Saharan/Mediterranean area. But that’s my observation after having seen only one picture.

Ariana DeBose is Afro Latina, but I don’t see any Latino characteristics in Princess Asha. Her skin is much darker and her features more black African than Ariana’s.

I agree with previous posters who think the Princess will be a Disney mishmash of cultures and ethnicities that may or may not actually exist. The important thing it seems now for Disney characters is that she be anything but white racially and European ethnically/culturally . Again just my observation of the direction Disney has chosen to pursue in their product output.
Last edited by carolinakid on Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thumper_93
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Re: Wish

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D82 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:19 am It's true it has a Mediterranean vibe. Isn't it an olive tree, for example, the one that appears in the official first look released by Disney? That's a very Mediterranean tree. And there are palm trees in the background. I've also seen someone comment both the setting and Asha's dress reminded them of Morocco. I wish they had given more details about the where the movie takes place.
They should have chosen another voicen if they were trying to represent Morocco. Also the design of the princess doesn't look like a Morocco Woman. She doesn't look like a women from Spain or Italy neither. I hope that this is just a fictional world because It doesn't look mediterraneal. I live in Spain and the culture of the countries that are around the mediterranean are very reach and beautiful. We don't want to be represented by a character that doesn't look like us.
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Sotiris
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Re: Wish

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The setting has to be a fictional mash-up of various cultures. The presence of an Afro-Latina in the Mediterranean wouldn't make sense, especially during ye olden times. I agree that Asha looks more African than Latina, but I understand why Disney made that decision. If the character was as light-skinned as Arianna, Disney would be accused of colorism.

With the company going full "woke", it shouldn't come as a surprise that the protagonists of WDAS features, particularly the female ones, are going to be of color from now on. I think we will get another white princess eventually, but she would need to belong to a marginalized community of some sort, like the LGBT or the autistic community, for example.
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carolinakid
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Re: Wish

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The next white Disney princess will probably be a walking cheese wheel i.e. fat.
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Farerb
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Re: Wish

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I might be the only one who wants Disney to take a break from Princess movies. They are just becoming repetitive anyway.
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Warm Regards
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Re: Wish

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Sotiris wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:04 am The setting has to be a fictional mash-up of various cultures. The presence of an Afro-Latina in the Mediterranean wouldn't make sense, especially during ye olden times. I agree that Asha looks more African than Latina, but I understand why Disney made that decision. If the character was as light-skinned as Arianna, Disney would be accused of colorism.
This is a fascinating point. If Disney is making Asha an ethnic mix princess (i.e., she's from a make believe kingdom that takes influence from multiple areas like Spain, Morocco, etc.), a lot of people will be disappointed with the representation.

I saw a bunch of reviews on Raya and the Last Dragon on how disappointed they were with Raya/Namari/the humans being so vaguely South East Asian without committing to anything. Because the movie was a mix of Vietnamese culture, Filipino culture, etc. to the point of it not really representing one culture that well at all, it's all make-believe.

On YouTube someone also noted that if Raya was more outwardly written as a Filipina (for example), her clothing would have been much more elaborate and sparkly and the movie likely would have had more dancing and music accompaniment (like a musical? In a Disney movie? Unheard of!)

So yeah... Asha looks diverse enough (which for some people and kids primarily, is enough). But time will tell if her movie actually is culturally deep.
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Sotiris
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Re: Wish

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carolinakid wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:34 amThe next white Disney princess will probably be a walking cheese wheel i.e. fat.
Oh, that's not nice. There's no need for such rude characterizations. Anyway, given that Disney is releasing a short with an obese woman as the lead and who is a ballet dancer no less, I think it's entirely possible for a future princess to be overweight or obese.
Farerb wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:10 amI might be the only one who wants Disney to take a break from Princess movies. They are just becoming repetitive anyway.
Their non-princess movies are even more dull and derivative than their princess ones. Just look at Strange World.
Warm Regards wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:29 amIf Disney is making Asha an ethnic mix princess (i.e., she's from a make believe kingdom that takes influence from multiple areas like Spain, Morocco, etc.), a lot of people will be disappointed with the representation.
I get that, but that the same time, there are benefits to having a fictional setting. It gives artists more freedom to be creative without having to be beholden to a single culture and time period. It also protects them from potential criticism regarding cultural or historical accuracy and even from accusations of exploitation.
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Farerb
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Re: Wish

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Sotiris wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:24 amTheir non-princess movies are even more dull and derivative than their princess ones. Just look at Strange World.
These shouldn't be the only two options. It just feels like an algorithm comes up with these ideas for movies instead of coming up with a good story (and if it happens to feature a princess then sure), but another "something bad happens to the kingdom and she's the only one who can save everyone" is so overdone at this point, and it just doesn't feel like it comes from a genuine place, but rather to make something commercialized because the Princess Franchise is successful.
The people who work at the studio need to remember that the studio used to make movies like Fantasia, Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, 101 Dalmatians, Lilo and Stitch as well as Cinderella and Mulan.

Speaking of Strange World, it's funny that the trailer was shown at D23 over a week ago, they still haven't released it online, and yet people don't seem to care.
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Re: Wish

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Just the description of Strange World sounded boring to me. I’m so sick of science fiction/super hero crap.
I still love fairy tales and fantasy and romance .... but not the woke versions.
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Re: Wish

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Sotiris wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:04 am The setting has to be a fictional mash-up of various cultures. The presence of an Afro-Latina in the Mediterranean wouldn't make sense, especially during ye olden times. I agree that Asha looks more African than Latina, but I understand why Disney made that decision. If the character was as light-skinned as Arianna, Disney would be accused of colorism.

With the company going full "woke", it shouldn't come as a surprise that the protagonists of WDAS features, particularly the female ones, are going to be of color from now on. I think we will get another white princess eventually, but she would need to belong to a marginalized community of some sort, like the LGBT or the autistic community, for example.
I dont think we'll get another Princess film with white European lead until they're through with the Frozen sequels, as they probably feel those will fill the quota for white princess films. And they are taking their sweet time with the Frozen sequels (and you know more are coming) so its gonna be a while...

I dont think biracial or POC would be weird in the Mediterranean world, at the time, wasn't it a hub for commerce and trade routes from all sorts of cultures? (I see the ocean and ships in the concept art.) What is weird is that she would be a princess.

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Disney's Divinity
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Re: Wish

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I agree that they invent settings that are amalgamations to avoid controversy. It makes sense because every film they've made with a non-White lead has some sort of controversy, Tbh, I've liked all of the princesses, White or PoC, what have you, other than Aurora and Jasmine (well, I like her in TV series and the remake). I even liked Mirabel even though her design was almost as bad as the Strange World designs .
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Thumper_93
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Re: Wish

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The fact is that they can create a mediterranean character with a mix of the spanish culture and the Morocco culture. Morocco's people came to Spain and they stayed here for some centuries. Spanish culture has lot of influences from Morocco and some of our buildings have their Style. They could create a stunning world...
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D82
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Re: Wish

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unprincess wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:42 am I dont think biracial or POC would be weird in the Mediterranean world, at the time, wasn't it a hub for commerce and trade routes from all sorts of cultures? (I see the ocean and ships in the concept art.) What is weird is that she would be a princess.

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It's true, but an Afro-Latina specifically would be a bit weirder for that time and place. I don't think it has been confirmed she is, though. Ariana DeBose said it's a character that "looks like her" and "has a mixed background", but didn't say directly whether she's Afro-Latina or not. Maybe, she's biracial like her, but not Afro-Latina.

In another interview she said: "this is really cool, where an incredibly multicultural group of individuals is coming together to make something that represents all of us". Is she confirming the setting is a mix of different cultures there?

Regarding whether Asha will be a princess or not, both in the presentation and in interviews they mentioned she "cares endlessly about her community" and "is a leader who doesn't know it yet", which makes me think she could be, though it doesn't necessarily mean she will either. Also, she lives in a kingdom, which makes it more possible.

By the way, here are a couple more images and videos (1 and 2) of the Wish display/photo-op at D23 and a better look at Asha's kingdom:

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Source: https://twitter.com/Crystal_blue_89/sta ... 0125534210

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Source: https://twitter.com/PatrickADougall/sta ... 7015495680

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Source: https://twitter.com/spinatmaedchen/stat ... 2581462017
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Thumper_93
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Re: Wish

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In my opinion a character created by a mix of cultures is something that is not all right. They have been making movies based in especific cultures like Encanto in order to represent colombian people. Why would you do a movie with a mix of cultures with non sense? These cultures deserve an individual representation because they are so important as the cultures that has been already represented.
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carolinakid
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Re: Wish

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Re:D82’s latest pictures of Princess Asha.

She black. ‘Nuff said!
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Re: Wish

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I think Asha is absolutely beautiful and I can't wait to see more of her! As a side Ariana is also a stunning talent who I think will bring a very high quality of performance to this character. Ariana also seems to be a bit of a spit-fire, so if she has any influence in her character I think we'll get a really interesting princess.

I'm purely speculating, but I wonder if part of the reason they are keeping the location a little vague is to be able to fit more references from past films into the film without it being too jarring. As was mentioned, historically the Mediterranean served as a crossroads of trade for many civilizations. Maybe this will be reflected in other characters, architecture, art, clothes, and so forth in the film? I just hope because of it coming to us during the 100 years celebration it isn't reduced to just references.
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Re: Wish

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I don't mind the amalgamations because aren't most of the princess films amalgamations anyway? At least they always seemed that way, very vague where the setting is (ye olden times is how I think of them). That and the other way of practically copyrighting a specific culture (think of PIXAR with El Dia de los Muertos) is sort of creepy in its own way.

I love these other shots of her. The hairstyle they gave her is very pretty. I made the image in my banner based on that first shot of her posted, the one that's almost a side view of her looking to the left (I simply flipped it to use for basis). It was sort of hard to imitate the style of the other little avatars because her hair is so long and straight, I copied the Pocahontas one as far as cutting it off in a way that implies it keeps going down further than what's shown. :P
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D82
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Re: Wish

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Disney's Divinity wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:25 pm I don't mind the amalgamations because aren't most of the princess films amalgamations anyway? At least they always seemed that way, very vague where the setting is (ye olden times is how I think of them).
I was going to say that too. Personally, I don't mind it as long as the setting feels cohesive enough, but I also understand Thumper_93. If your country is included in one of these amalgamations, you're less likely to get a Disney film set in it in the future.
singerguy04 wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:12 pm I think Asha is absolutely beautiful and I can't wait to see more of her! As a side Ariana is also a stunning talent who I think will bring a very high quality of performance to this character. Ariana also seems to be a bit of a spit-fire, so if she has any influence in her character I think we'll get a really interesting princess.
I agree about Ariana. I'm glad she was cast in the role. I just hope the songs live up to her talent. The one that was previewed is nice, but not memorable enough for a Disney "I want" song, in my opinion. I also agree Asha is very beautiful. At first, I thought she looked a bit generic, but it's true that the braided hair and that hairstyle sets her apart from the other princesses, as Disney's Divinity said. I just wish they hadn't given her a goat as a pet, even though he's very cute and I like his design. That coupled with her color scheme always reminds me of Esmeralda. Plus, she even wears an ankle bracelet like her.

Speaking of her appearance, I wonder if the motive at the lower part of the dress and on her satchel could be the symbol of the Kingdom of Rosas. It looks a bit like a rose, but I'm not sure if that's what it is.

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singerguy04 wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:12 pm I'm purely speculating, but I wonder if part of the reason they are keeping the location a little vague is to be able to fit more references from past films into the film without it being too jarring.
That's an interesting theory. Who knows, maybe it is one of the reasons.
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Re: Wish

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A new interview from D23 with Ariana DeBose and Alan Tudyk has been released. What Ariana says near the end when asked what she hopes people take away from the movie; that your dreams don't work unless you do and so on, sounds a lot like The Princess and the Frog's message, doesn't it? I hope it's not the main theme once again.
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