DVDizzy Forum

First I want to apologize if this thread comes across as superflous and unnecessary, but I still wanted to give it a go. Considering that it`s soon going to be 20 years since The Emperor`s New Groove was released on DVD for the first time.

We all know the unfortunate fate of Kingdom of the Sun. And the sad truth is that most people will never get the chance to see it. But regardless of how The Emperor`s New Groove turned out to be a creative success, there have been many who`ve been sullen over the change from Kingdom. And have been curious about Kingdom`s outcome. I`ve been one of them. But now that been said (and regardless of how it`s been discussed before): For those of you who looked forward to it, what were your reasons to look forward to it?

For me personally, there`s two reasons: The first one is that it was co-directed by Roger Allers. Considering that he was behind The Lion King, it was a major reason alone to look forward to it. The second is how it was exploration of Incan culture. I know that I`ve said this before, but regardless of how good Groove turned out to be, at least it was a wasted opportunity to explore the aspects of Incan culture. As it was too anachronistic with it`s setting and timeline.

Anyways, what`s your reasons to look forward to it?

When I looked up news about Disney's newest films for the first time back in the early '00s (in my elementary school's computer lab at the time; I was in 4th grade, I believe), Kingdom of the Sun and Sweating Bullets were the two films in development then. I think what I looked forward to seeing most was the plot of a villainess out to destroy the sun--which is fairly silly on its face, but combined with the ultra-serious concept art it really made me excited for how it might turn out. That title alone was epic enough to get anyone curious.

Thanks for your reply, Disney`s Divinity. I like your valid reasons. And yeah, Yzma seemed like a promising villain in Kingdom of The Sun. And yeah, the title alone wielded promise. I remember being in Middle School when I learned about the project in the late 90`s (yes, even then I was obsessed with Disney) and this was when my family had just acquired Internet for the first time. But even then, there was little information about the movie, besides the concept arts.

I would have been excited for any upcoming Disney film (as I am now), but obviously reading about the troubled production made the film even more intriguing (on sites like Animated-Movies.net, Jim Hill Media, & Ain't It Cool News). Reading about how it was Kingdom Of the Sun, to Kingdom In the Sun, & TENG. As a Disney fan, how could one not be interested in a film with so many changes made during production? And this concept poster (http://am.animatedviews.com/TheEmperorsNewGroove1.jpg)- it's almost haunting.

I agree, I like that concept poster, too. I remember that it was basically one of the few leaks that was about it at the time.

I learned about Kingdom of the Sun long after I had watched The Emperor's New Groove in theaters, so I wasn't looking forward to it. However, the more I learned about it, the more I wished it got made, even though I love The Emperor's New Groove. Here are my reasons in random order:

• It felt more Disney. It followed a storytelling approach and style that is closely associated with Disney. It would have easily stood next to the rest of the Disney classics without feeling like an outlier or something that was ought to have been produced by a different studio.

• It had a grand and epic scale to it.

• It had more naturalistic, Disney-esque character designs and backgrounds.

• It was a more accurate and authentic representation of a Latin-American myth.

• It was a musical. Male-led musicals are a rarity for Disney and this would have been a nice addition to the fold. Sting would have joined the ranks of pop singers/songwriters who wrote an animated musical for Disney.

• Izma was an intimidating, theatrical, larger-than-life villain in the vein of Ursula, Jafar, and Maleficent.

• It would have introduced the world to the first Latina Disney princess.

• It was an adaptation of a classic piece of literature.

Excellent points, Sotiris. But since you`ve learned about Kingdom long after seeing Groove, I guess you were a kid when you saw Groove in theaters?

DisneyFan09 wrote:Excellent points, Sotiris.

Thanks! It's all pretty subjective though. Kingdom of the Sun had all the elements that appeal to me, so even though I love what we ended up getting, I can't help but lament what we lost.

DisneyFan09 wrote:But since you`ve learned about Kingdom long after seeing Groove, I guess you were a kid when you saw Groove in theaters?

Yeah, I was pretty young. It was a strange experience watching The Emperor's New Groove for the first time. It was nothing like I was used to from Disney. It felt something like Warner Bros. would make. But it was really funny and endlessly quotable.

Sotiris wrote:Thanks! It's all pretty subjective though. Kingdom of the Sun had all the elements that appeal to me, so even though I love what we ended up getting, I can't help but lament what we lost.

Of course. But you`re right that there haven`t been a lot of male-centered musicals from Disney (which was another reason to look forward to Gigantic). And even not all of them has their lead males singing. As evident in Peter Pan. Even Hercules just have two songs where our titular lead sings and he doesn`t even sing as an adult. Hunchback falls into the category as a male-lead musical as well. Yet it`s remarkable that the realistic lead, Phoebus, doesn`t even get to sing.

Besides, I think that Yzma would`ve been a great villain in Kingdom (even though she`s still a great one in Groove). She was supervised by Andreas Deja, for goodness sake.

Yeah, I was pretty young. It was a strange experience watching The Emperor's New Groove for the first time. It was nothing like I was used to from Disney. It felt something like Warner Bros. would make. But it was really funny and endlessly quotable.

I felt the same. I knew that it had a Warner Bros-tone before seeing it (after reading some reviews in advance). But I remember one reviewer from Animated Views saying that Groove was the best Warner Bros-movie from a non-Warner Bros studio (which is a big compliment). Can I ask how old you were when you saw Groove in theaters?

The reveal of Mirabel's design made me lament even more we didn't get Kingdom of the Sun. We could have had Nina as our first Latina princess.












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Even Mata from an earlier version of The Emperor's New Groove would have been much more preferable to what are getting now.


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Thanks for using my thread, Sotiris I`m very flattered and deeply honored

Now that you say it, it`s true that Nina was actually going to be the first Latina Princess (while technically being an Incan Princess). And she would`ve be a Princess in a time where Disney weren`t so desperate to make every heroine a Princess (cough, the Revival Princesses, cough). Now that I think about it, she would`ve been the first Princess in a row, preceeding Kida from Atlantis.

DisneyFan09 wrote:And she would've be a Princess in a time where Disney weren't so desperate to make every heroine a Princess (cough, the Revival Princesses, cough).

That's true. Being a Disney Princess wasn't a thing back then. Probably because the Disney Princess line hadn't launched yet or was in its infancy. I think the focus on princesses started with The Princess and the Frog. Tiana being the first African-American princess became a bigger deal than the film itself. Not just by the audience and the press, but by Disney's marketing and consumer products departments.

Which is interesting because briefly after TP&TF, Disney was extremely anti-princess because they blamed the focus on the princess franchise with that film as part of its "failure." Only to then completely reverse course after Tangled. I actually think both Tangled and Frozen were probably less focused on the princess franchise than TP&TF and the films that followed Frozen because of that fact. After Frozen went astronomical, they started to focus more on how to develop the franchise and diversify it (both in terms of racial representation and role models).

That cut TENG character is really cute! I didn't know about that character before. I agree that the KotS character probably would've been a better "first" from those pictures.

Sotiris wrote:That's true. Being a Disney Princess wasn't a thing back then. Probably because the Disney Princess line hadn't launched yet or was in its infancy. I think the focus on princesses started with The Princess and the Frog. Tiana being the first African-American princess became a bigger deal than the film itself. Not just by the audience and the press, but by Disney's marketing and consumer products departments.

True. The Princess lineup was somewhat at it`s infancy back then, since it wasn`t the same franchise as it`s today (since it had both Esmeralda and Jane who were afterwards excluded). And yeah, it all started with Tiana (despite that it could`ve started with Giselle, due to how Enchanted was a Princess movie, after all). But since Tiana was being the first African-American Princess, she had a lot of weight on her shoulders, anyways (and yeah, most of the fuzz about her was about her race). But both her and Rapunzel were launched as part of the franchise, unlike their followers. Despite how Anna and Elsa were deliberately shoehorned to be Princesses, at least they weren`t launched with the franchise, unlike their predecessors.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Which is interesting because briefly after TP&TF, Disney was extremely anti-princess because they blamed the focus on the princess franchise with that film as part of its "failure." Only to then completely reverse course after Tangled. I actually think both Tangled and Frozen were probably less focused on the princess franchise than TP&TF and the films that followed Frozen because of that fact. After Frozen went astronomical, they started to focus more on how to develop the franchise and diversify it (both in terms of racial representation and role models).

True. But remember that some people claimed that it was just a statement blown out of porportions. Despite how it sounds awfully plausible (and very ironic, since Tangled turned out to be a hit, after all). But Princesses have been big bucks for Disney since the success of the Franchise. And regardless of Disney`s everlasting staple of Princesses, it`s not strange how they`ve focused on them through an entire decade for financial reasons.