DVDizzy Forum

Regarding her movie having it´s Silver Anniversary this year and regardless of its negative reputation and it´s controversy, it´s still fair to say that she´s regarded as the epitome of a non-Caucasian heroine. I know that I´ve mentioned this priorly, but I´ve noticed how every non-Caucasian heroine gets compared to Pocahontas. Of course we all know that she wasn´t the first non-White heroine from the Renaissance (that honor goes to Princess Jasmine). Nor was she the first non-white female character from Disney to ever grace the screen (Tiger Lily from Peter Pan and Shanti from The Jungle Book).
But at least she was the first female of color to actually lead her movie. But after then, every following non-Caucasian heroine has been frequently compared to Pocahontas. Still, Pocahontas doesn´t just get referenced by Disney lovers, but by people in general. I´ve noticed at a daily basis how people have a general tendency to jokingly refer women of color as Pocahontas (and not necessarily just Native American women).

So do you agree with on this point?

I don't really recall Mulan or Tiana being compared to Pocahontas exactly? But I do notice it happens a lot with Moana for some reason. Maybe it's because there are a lot of scenes with Moana with her hair flying in the wind, sort of like Pocahontas? She's also in touch with the ocean in a similar way to Pocahontas and the earth, I guess?

Lindsay Ellis does a more thoughtful comparison between Moana and Pocahontas in the first minute of this video:

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ARX0-AylFI&t=12s [/youtube]

Disney's Divinity wrote:But I do notice it happens a lot with Moana for some reason. Maybe it's because there are a lot of scenes with Moana with her hair flying in the wind, sort of like Pocahontas?

Well, both Moana and Pocahontas are Indigenous and Moana looks a bit like Pocahontas, especially in some concept art. You can only differentiate so much within a certain style. I don't think they're that alike, but I can see why people are drawing comparisons.

Well, to be fair, at least the Moana-comparison makes sense. After all, both are daughters of tribal chiefs and both have frankly various similarities in common (which even the always Pocahontas-loathing Lindsay Ellis pointed out in her Pocahontas Was a Mistake-video three years ago). Perhaps Tiana haven´t been compared to Pocahontas as much, but at least Mulan did receive various comparisons. While the comparisons between Mulan and Pocahontas may be shallow, both movies share various similarites, more than people give them credit for: A war between two different races, where the invadors are antagonistic (and frankly, both Ratcliffe and Shan-Yu have similar shapes and black hair). Both heroines having Grandmothers (though Mulan´s case is more literal) and falls in love with a Captain. And besides, in the scene where Fa Zhou gets called to war, Mulan´s hair blows in the wind, just as Pocahontas´(a shallow cue, but still).

Even Esmeralda was somewhat compared to Pocahontas, believe it or not (though personally, I´ve always thought that a Jasmine-comparison would´ve made more sense. Since both originates from races which aren´t too far from each other).

thedisneyspirit wrote:Lindsay Ellis does a more thoughtful comparison between Moana and Pocahontas in the first minute of this video:

I know Even I didn´t noticed all the comparisons before she brought it up

Sotiris wrote:Well, both Moana and Pocahontas are Indigenous and Moana looks a bit like Pocahontas, especially in some concept art. You can only differentiate so much within a certain style. I don't think they're that alike, but I can see why people are drawing comparisons.

Well, technically it would´ve been more fair to compare Moana to Nani. Since both of them are Polynesian, after all.

Oh, yeah, they're both daughters of chiefs, how could I forget that. I'll try to watch that video later tonight, thedisneyspirit. I just had a thought that they both have necklaces, although I guess that's a shallow similarity.

DisneyFan09 wrote: Even Esmeralda was somewhat compared to Pocahontas, believe it or not (though personally, I´ve always thought that a Jasmine-comparison would´ve made more sense. Since both originates from races which aren´t too far from each other).

Esmeralda and Pocahontas make sense because of the following reasons.

Both are non-princesses (unlike Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, etc.) who aren't teenagers but meant to be older than the prototypical Disney Princess. Pocahontas was designed to feel more mature than her predecessors and Esmeralda was a full-fledged woman in her 20s.

Both of them didn't come from fairy tales but from films with darker themes and more mature content. Pocahontas and Esmeralda both deal with racism, sexism (mostly Esmeralda), and even the genocide of their respective races.

Both stand up against injustice with Pocahontas' impassioned speech to her father, her people and the settlers in the finale and Esmeralda demanding Quasi's release at the Festival of Fools as she blames Frollo for the plight of her people. Both women become symbols for their people through these acts as evident by the finales of their films.

Also both fall in love with an older, blonde captain known for wearing heavy armor and a helmet and even their colors sort of match as John Smith wears silver and Phoebus wears gold. Both Smith and Phoebus have fought in wars and traveled across the world (or Europe in Phoebus' case) so they're more worldly than their heroines but Pocahontas and Esmeralda are more than a match for them.

Even the signature songs of these two heroines preach a moral message, Pocahontas calling for environmentalism and preservation of the earth and Esmeralda asking for humanity to treat each other more kindly regardless of race, religion, gender, etc.

So I don't think it's a surprise at all that Pocahontas and Esmeralda get commonly compared even if Esmeralda has a lot in common with Jasmine just as Pocahontas has a lot in common with Ariel.

I've only seen Mulan and Moana compared more favorably to Pocahontas, and I've never heard WoC were referred to as "Pocahontas".

Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas as a slur. I think he's done it to other women as well.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas as a slur. I think he's done it to other women as well.

That's despicable.

farerb wrote:

JeanGreyForever wrote:Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas as a slur. I think he's done it to other women as well.

That's despicable.

It's par for the course for 45. Can't wait to see him call her that when he's in jail and she's Vice President.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Esmeralda and Pocahontas make sense because of the following reasons.

Both are non-princesses (unlike Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, etc.) who aren't teenagers but meant to be older than the prototypical Disney Princess. Pocahontas was designed to feel more mature than her predecessors and Esmeralda was a full-fledged woman in her 20s.

Both of them didn't come from fairy tales but from films with darker themes and more mature content. Pocahontas and Esmeralda both deal with racism, sexism (mostly Esmeralda), and even the genocide of their respective races.

Both stand up against injustice with Pocahontas' impassioned speech to her father, her people and the settlers in the finale and Esmeralda demanding Quasi's release at the Festival of Fools as she blames Frollo for the plight of her people. Both women become symbols for their people through these acts as evident by the finales of their films.

Also both fall in love with an older, blonde captain known for wearing heavy armor and a helmet and even their colors sort of match as John Smith wears silver and Phoebus wears gold. Both Smith and Phoebus have fought in wars and traveled across the world (or Europe in Phoebus' case) so they're more worldly than their heroines but Pocahontas and Esmeralda are more than a match for them.

Even the signature songs of these two heroines preach a moral message, Pocahontas calling for environmentalism and preservation of the earth and Esmeralda asking for humanity to treat each other more kindly regardless of race, religion, gender, etc.

So I don't think it's a surprise at all that Pocahontas and Esmeralda get commonly compared even if Esmeralda has a lot in common with Jasmine just as Pocahontas has a lot in common with Ariel.

Well said. Good observations Though according to Jim Hill Media, Pocahontas is about 18 years old; http://am.animatedviews.com/Pocahontas.html. But sure, Pocahontas does have a lot in common with Ariel, as well.

Oh, Poca seems older in the film. Must be her figure.

According to Lindsay, Poca and Moana are similar in that:

-They're the daughters of chiefs of indigenous people living in pre-colonial tribes
-Their father wants them to follow tradition soon since they're coming of age and will be the leaders of their tribe
-Water is associated with freedom for them
-Grandmother is spiritual and supportive
-Outside conflict which grandma suggests that's her true destiny
-Disrespectful guy who accompanies her in her adventure
-Moment where everything gets screwed up
-Saves the day via compassion and understanding rather than war.

DisneyFan09 wrote: Well said. Good observations Though according to Jim Hill Media, Pocahontas is about 18 years old; http://am.animatedviews.com/Pocahontas.html. But sure, Pocahontas does have a lot in common with Ariel, as well.

Thank you for that link! I always wanted some confirmation about Pocahontas' age because I had heard 18 tossed around a lot but never saw a source. At 18, that would still make Pocahontas older than 16 year-old Ariel, 15/16 year-old Jasmine, and 17 year-old Belle. Not to mention 14-year old Snow White and 16-year old Aurora although Cinderella was actually also 18.

thedisneyspirit wrote:Oh, Poca seems older in the film. Must be her figure.

According to Lindsay, Poca and Moana are similar in that:

-They're the daughters of chiefs of indigenous people living in pre-colonial tribes
-Their father wants them to follow tradition soon since they're coming of age and will be the leaders of their tribe
-Water is associated with freedom for them
-Grandmother is spiritual and supportive
-Outside conflict which grandma suggests that's her true destiny
-Disrespectful guy who accompanies her in her adventure
-Moment where everything gets screwed up
-Saves the day via compassion and understanding rather than war.

Yes, she was designed to be more mature and womanly and Glen Keane said she is the physical antithesis of Ariel.

And those are all great points too. I forgot that water is also associated as freedom for Pocahontas (another thing that makes her the antithesis of Ariel). The last point is something I especially love about Pocahontas and Moana because both find a peaceful solution, unlike Mulan whose film suggests that war is the answer.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Thank you for that link!

You´re welcome

thedisneyspirit wrote:Oh, Poca seems older in the film. Must be her figure.

I agree, but not just because of her figure Her dignified and poised nature.