Tiana's Bayou Adventure

All topics relating to Disney-branded content.
Post Reply
NeoSuperBlissey
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:37 pm

Tiana's Bayou Adventure

Post by NeoSuperBlissey »

CNN's travel blog is reporting that there is a drive for Disney to re-theme Splash Mountain, based on the fact that the ride is themed after the controversial 1946 film "Song of the South."

One leading candidate for the re-theming is "The Princess and the Frog."
User avatar
UmbrellaFish
Signature Collection
Posts: 5165
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:09 pm
Gender: Male (He/Him)

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by UmbrellaFish »

So when I started working at the parks in Orlando, I came in relatively ignorant. Like, I didn’t know that the NBC overlay at the Haunted Mansion only happened in Cali, or that the Magic Kingdom didn’t have their own New Orleans Square.

So I thought Splash Mountain was a classic attraction— something that existed at Disneyland in Walt’s day and was an opening day attraction at WDW in ‘71. I mean, it’s just a log flume ride, those are pretty common and old fashioned rides, right?

No, Splash Mountain opened at Disneyland in 1989 and in the Magic Kingdom in 1992. What the absolute hell? Song of the South has been verboten my entire life, I’ve never seen it, I grew up reading posters on Ultimate Disney petitioning it for a release. It always been the forbidden fruit of the Disney movie community since I’ve been a part of it. It’s just so crazy to me that in just a few years, Disney went from building a ride based on Song of the South to completely hiding the movie away “in the vaults.”

Anyway, I think it should rethemed. I’ve never seen the movie but I’ve read about it and listened to commentary, I’ve had black friends who have seen it tell me it’s racist, Disney is so ashamed of the movie Bob Iger has said he won’t re-release it— it’s time to take the racist movie out of the parks. And stop there— it doesn’t matter if you think the movie is actually racist, Disney has contributed and basically supported this perception by keeping the movie hidden for the past several decades.

I don’t know what I’d retheme it as... TPATF doesn’t really make sense in MK’s Frontierland (although I understand the sort of racial justice element of this idea), but maybe it works in CA if the ride is close enough to New Orleans Square? There was a rumor that a Woody’s Round-up animatronic show was going to replace the Country Bears but thankfully that rumored proved false. Maybe they can retheme Splash Mountain as an action packed episode of Woody’s Roundup? After the climatic drop, you see Woody and the gang singing “You’ve Got a Friend in Me” instead of Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah, a song whose racist origins I did not know until I listened to Karina Longworth’s You Must Remember This podcast last year.

I think a Woody’s Roundup Splash Mountain could be fun and fit into that part of the park and supposedly they’re desperate for more Pixar in the parks.
User avatar
JeanGreyForever
Signature Collection
Posts: 5335
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:29 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by JeanGreyForever »

I hope not. And if they retheme this, they're going to get a lot of flack considering how Splash Mountain tends to be one of people's favorite rides. And is TPATF any less "racist" than Song of the South? Decades from now, I can see this film being as sequestered away as Song of the South is now. Most people don't even associate Splash Mountain with a specific film so I don't see the issue and Disney themselves created this ride even after they locked away Song of the South so they surely should have realized this then if they didn't want to promote the property.

Rumors like this about Splash Mountain are always going around so I wouldn't put too much weight into it.
ImageImage
We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey
User avatar
bruno_wbt
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 10:22 am
Location: Under the Sea
Contact:

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by bruno_wbt »

Why would anyone want to change this attraction? It’s perfect as it is.
NeoSuperBlissey
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:37 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by NeoSuperBlissey »

bruno_wbt wrote:Why would anyone want to change this attraction? It’s perfect as it is.
Perhaps it's political correctness gone amuck, similar to removing "Gone with the Wind" from HBO Max or Paramount Network cancelling "Cops."
User avatar
JeanGreyForever
Signature Collection
Posts: 5335
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:29 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by JeanGreyForever »

NeoSuperBlissey wrote:
bruno_wbt wrote:Why would anyone want to change this attraction? It’s perfect as it is.
Perhaps it's political correctness gone amuck, similar to removing "Gone with the Wind" from HBO Max or Paramount Network cancelling "Cops."
Removing Gone with the Wind backfired apparently. This was posted by UmbrellaFish in the Gone with the Wind thread.
UmbrellaFish wrote:I doubt it. I mean, GWTW is coming back to HBO Max eventually, just with a disclaimer and other context provided after all. Nobody really cares about physical media anymore except collectors so I think a 4K release would go mostly under the radar in the media while making WB a decent buck.
ImageImage
We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey
User avatar
Farerb
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by Farerb »

I see criticism aimed at TPatF, mainly that the protagonist spends most of the film in a frog form and especially the erasure of systemic oppression by presenting the La Bouffs as nice and caring, so I don't think TPatF would be a good idea.
User avatar
UmbrellaFish
Signature Collection
Posts: 5165
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:09 pm
Gender: Male (He/Him)

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by UmbrellaFish »

JeanGreyForever wrote: Removing Gone with the Wind backfired apparently. This was posted by UmbrellaFish in the Gone with the Wind thread.
UmbrellaFish wrote:I doubt it. I mean, GWTW is coming back to HBO Max eventually, just with a disclaimer and other context provided after all. Nobody really cares about physical media anymore except collectors so I think a 4K release would go mostly under the radar in the media while making WB a decent buck.
To be clear here, when HBO Max pulled GWTW they always said it would eventually return to the streaming service with additional historical context provided, it’s even stated in NeoSuperBlissy’s CNN article/press release. They’re just temporarily pulling the movie while they make sure they have the proper disclaimer in place during these especially sensitive times. So to call that “political correctness run amuck” is a little over the top— does anyone have a problem with Disney+’s similar disclaimers? If anything about this “backfired” it’s that physical media sales of the movie shot up on Amazon which I do not explicitly mention in the quoted post, but which farerb shared an article on in that GWTW thread.

But I personally wouldn’t use the term “backfire” because clearly, hiding and ceasing to profit from GWTW was not and never was the intention of WB, and even the article (https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... wind-movie) which seems to have influenced HBO Max in their decision to pull the film for the time being makes no argument that the movie should be banned.
farerb wrote:I see criticism aimed at TPatF, mainly that the protagonist spends most of the film in a frog form and especially the erasure of systemic oppression by presenting the La Bouffs as nice and caring, so I don't think TPatF would be a good idea.
This is true, TPATF has seen its share of criticism. Anecdotally though, I still see a lot of affection for TPATF from most Disney fans. I think the fact that Tiana was their first and so far only black leading character (I feel like I’m forgetting somebody, but I’m not, right?) still means a lot to a lot of people. And I think, if they did retheme Splash Mountain because of the racist history of Song of the South, they’d run the risk of getting flack for replacing the ride with more white characters or non-black characters. I still like my Woody’s Roundup idea, but I think Disney would end up including a new black cowboy character as Woody’s partner or something, which would probably read as pandering as the Dems in kente cloth this week.
User avatar
JeanGreyForever
Signature Collection
Posts: 5335
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:29 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by JeanGreyForever »

UmbrellaFish wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote: Removing Gone with the Wind backfired apparently. This was posted by UmbrellaFish in the Gone with the Wind thread.
To be clear here, when HBO Max pulled GWTW they always said it would eventually return to the streaming service with additional historical context provided, it’s even stated in NeoSuperBlissy’s CNN article/press release. They’re just temporarily pulling the movie while they make sure they have the proper disclaimer in place during these especially sensitive times. So to call that “political correctness run amuck” is a little over the top— does anyone have a problem with Disney+’s similar disclaimers? If anything about this “backfired” it’s that physical media sales of the movie shot up on Amazon which I do not explicitly mention in the quoted post, but which farerb shared an article on in that GWTW thread.

But I personally wouldn’t use the term “backfire” because clearly, hiding and ceasing to profit from GWTW was not and never was the intention of WB, and even the article (https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... wind-movie) which seems to have influenced HBO Max in their decision to pull the film for the time being makes no argument that the movie should be banned.
farerb wrote:I see criticism aimed at TPatF, mainly that the protagonist spends most of the film in a frog form and especially the erasure of systemic oppression by presenting the La Bouffs as nice and caring, so I don't think TPatF would be a good idea.
This is true, TPATF has seen its share of criticism. Anecdotally though, I still see a lot of affection for TPATF from most Disney fans. I think the fact that Tiana was their first and so far only black leading character (I feel like I’m forgetting somebody, but I’m not, right?) still means a lot to a lot of people. And I think, if they did retheme Splash Mountain because of the racist history of Song of the South, they’d run the risk of getting flack for replacing the ride with more white characters or non-black characters. I still like my Woody’s Roundup idea, but I think Disney would end up including a new black cowboy character as Woody’s partner or something, which would probably read as pandering as the Dems in kente cloth this week.
I didn't read the whole article and just read the title so I assumed the film was pulled permanently from HBO Max without any plans of a disclaimer. Especially because a few years back, I think the film was pulled from some revival houses and theaters and there was a lot of controversy over that so I figured this was another situation like that but likely more justified considering current events. Thank you for properly explaining the situation.

Personally, I haven't seen a lot of love for TPATF amongst Disney fans. Most of them love Tangled, Frozen, and/or Moana from the new set of films and those films get a lot more promotion when it comes to the parks and merchandise as well. The box office numbers also speak for themselves. In the UK, TPATF was the lowest watched Disney Princess film and if you look at foreign countries like Japan, one of the biggest Disney consumers, the film has no representation at all. I don't know how well received it is in China but I've heard in Europe overall it's not really popular because it's not really the quintessential European fairy tale nor is it a film with European sensibilities like Pocahontas or Hunchback.

Yes, Tiana is Disney's first lead black character which is also why it got so much controversy that she's a frog for most of the film. She's also human for 19 minutes of the film I think. I remember when Shuri came out, there was a lot of comparisons between her and Tiana and Black Twitter said that Shuri was a Disney Princess done right because she had actual African roots and was not from a white American book adapted from a white European story. Which is why there was so much excitement about Sade (although I think the name has been changed now) because she's an actual African princess and Black Panther has proved there is an interest in African folklore and stories. That's what a lot of black people want, their own culture and stories represented rather than black people in white European stories. And it's a real shame because Disney has done several films in Africa but none of them involve black people (The Lion King and Tarzan). They had a few concepts for films featuring actual Africans in the 2000s but none of those films panned out.
ImageImage
We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey
User avatar
estefan
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3195
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by estefan »

"Song of the South" was re-released in theatres in 1986, a few short years before Splash Mountain opened. This was supposedly done to test the waters to see if any sort of controversy would ignite over Splash Mountain, but I guess there wasn't too much of a fuss.

Disney's treatment of "Song of the South" has been a fascinating one. They didn't have a problem with airing the animated segments sometimes and including a few of the songs on the Sing-A-Long Song videos. The film also got multiple video releases in the United Kingdom and Asia. It appears mostly in the DVD era that Disney has gotten more nervous about the film and outright banning its distribution, although I wonder how much that has contributed to its infamy. It is a difficult film for Disney to have in their library and I completely understand their hesitation about putting it out there.

As for whether to re-theme Splash Mountain, if the Imagineers can think of a clever way to do it, it's entirely up to them. I think it's more the live-action parts of the film that Disney has concerns over rather than the animated portions represented in the ride. The large majority of park visitors probably aren't even aware those cartoon animals are from "Song of the South", especially as less new generations are made aware of the film's existence.
"There are two wolves and they are always fighting. One is darkness and despair. The other is light and hope. Which wolf wins? Whichever one you feed." - Casey Newton, Tomorrowland
User avatar
UmbrellaFish
Signature Collection
Posts: 5165
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:09 pm
Gender: Male (He/Him)

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by UmbrellaFish »

Stumbled upon Dreamsound’s newest video about “Song of the South” and Splash Mountain, in which he explains why the ride is still problematic despite, and in fact, because of attempts to obfuscate the most offensive elements of its source material movie: https://youtu.be/KaS6t0lzV1A

In the video, Dreamsounds also references Disney vlogger Shawn Rosell’s “Song of the South” video where he talks mostly about the origins of the Uncle Remus stories and the live action segments of Disney’s movie: https://youtu.be/G4nQHXCCHqQ

And he also recommends listening to Karina Longworth’s “You Must Remember This” season on “Song of the South.” I think this is definitely required listening for the Disney fan. Listen here on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/y ... 0454433976
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 19912
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by Sotiris »

UmbrellaFish wrote:It always been the forbidden fruit of the Disney movie community since I’ve been a part of it. It’s just so crazy to me that in just a few years, Disney went from building a ride based on Song of the South to completely hiding the movie away “in the vaults.”
People want Song of the South so badly because they can't have it. If it were widely available, they would care as much about it as they do So Dear to My Heart.
UmbrellaFish wrote:I don’t know what I’d retheme it as... TPATF doesn’t really make sense in MK’s Frontierland.
Then why not something based on the short John Henry? It fits right in themetically. Sure, it's not very well-known, but I doudt any of the kids going on the ride know who the Song of the South characters are either.
farerb wrote:I see criticism aimed at TPatF, mainly that the protagonist spends most of the film in a frog form and especially the erasure of systemic oppression by presenting the La Bouffs as nice and caring, so I don't think TPatF would be a good idea.
Which is ironic since that's the same criticism hurled at Song of the South.
UmbrellaFish wrote:This is true, TPATF has seen its share of criticism. Anecdotally though, I still see a lot of affection for TPATF from most Disney fans. I think the fact that Tiana was their first and so far only black leading character (I feel like I’m forgetting somebody, but I’m not, right?) still means a lot to a lot of people.
I would say Kida from Atlantis is a co-lead, but that's debatable since the movie is more of an ensemble.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
UmbrellaFish
Signature Collection
Posts: 5165
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:09 pm
Gender: Male (He/Him)

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by UmbrellaFish »

Sotiris wrote:People want Song of the South so badly because they can't have it. If it were widely available, they would care as much about it as they do So Dear to My Heart.
You’re absolutely right. But I think a major reason Disney has kept the lid on SOTS for so long is to quell any questions about the company continuing to profit from a movie which critics and the company itself deems is racist. If SOTS were added to Disney+ tomorrow and people could easily access the film, I think average people would have a lot more questions about Splash Mountain and its gift shop which sells all kinds of merchandise tied to the ride and the movie but without the whole context attached.

So that’s why I’m a proponent of releasing SOTS for viewers to watch as a sort of historical document, but I believe the currently operating theme park attractions which profit from its characters and songs should be rethemed. That iconic “drop” photo on Splash Mountain might be the most famous in-ride photo ever, I’d be curious to know how much money it brings in through sales of the photograph and themed picture frames.
UmbrellaFish wrote:I don’t know what I’d retheme it as... TPATF doesn’t really make sense in MK’s Frontierland.
Then why not something based on the short John Henry?
Doesn’t John Henry die though? I mean, Disneyland has a whole ride about sending Mr Toad to hell so it’s not entirely without precedent but...
User avatar
RyGuy
Special Edition
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:50 pm
Location: Orange County, California

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by RyGuy »

UmbrellaFish wrote:So when I started working at the parks in Orlando, I came in relatively ignorant. Like, I didn’t know that the NBC overlay at the Haunted Mansion only happened in Cali, or that the Magic Kingdom didn’t have their own New Orleans Square.

So I thought Splash Mountain was a classic attraction— something that existed at Disneyland in Walt’s day and was an opening day attraction at WDW in ‘71. I mean, it’s just a log flume ride, those are pretty common and old fashioned rides, right?

No, Splash Mountain opened at Disneyland in 1989 and in the Magic Kingdom in 1992. What the absolute hell? Song of the South has been verboten my entire life, I’ve never seen it, I grew up reading posters on Ultimate Disney petitioning it for a release. It always been the forbidden fruit of the Disney movie community since I’ve been a part of it. It’s just so crazy to me that in just a few years, Disney went from building a ride based on Song of the South to completely hiding the movie away “in the vaults.”

Anyway, I think it should rethemed. I’ve never seen the movie but I’ve read about it and listened to commentary, I’ve had black friends who have seen it tell me it’s racist, Disney is so ashamed of the movie Bob Iger has said he won’t re-release it— it’s time to take the racist movie out of the parks. And stop there— it doesn’t matter if you think the movie is actually racist, Disney has contributed and basically supported this perception by keeping the movie hidden for the past several decades.

I don’t know what I’d retheme it as... TPATF doesn’t really make sense in MK’s Frontierland (although I understand the sort of racial justice element of this idea), but maybe it works in CA if the ride is close enough to New Orleans Square? There was a rumor that a Woody’s Round-up animatronic show was going to replace the Country Bears but thankfully that rumored proved false. Maybe they can retheme Splash Mountain as an action packed episode of Woody’s Roundup? After the climatic drop, you see Woody and the gang singing “You’ve Got a Friend in Me” instead of Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah, a song whose racist origins I did not know until I listened to Karina Longworth’s You Must Remember This podcast last year.

I think a Woody’s Roundup Splash Mountain could be fun and fit into that part of the park and supposedly they’re desperate for more Pixar in the parks.
Cool idea - I like your creativity! But, IMO, Toy Story already is over-represented in the parks.

TPatF works at Disneyland because it's right next to New Orleans Square so it'd be easy to extend that theming, but I agree it'd be weird in Frontierland at Magic Kingdom (I've never been to Tokyo Disneyland so I don't know the set up there). But I question whether the theme needs to be consistent at each park. So TPatF at Disneyland, and a different theme for Magic Kingdom, etc.
User avatar
DisneyBluLife
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:36 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by DisneyBluLife »

I think an animal movie like The Lion King or The Jungle book can suit Splash Mountain. Or Pixar's Up, or Brandy and Mr. Whiskers, or Gravity Falls (if they want a TV-show)
Last edited by DisneyBluLife on Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
DisneyBluLife
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:36 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by DisneyBluLife »

I know Song of the south is controversy from Disney but why can't they instead just release the animated parts and call it "The adventures/tales of Brer Rabbit"?

If they released only the animated parts under a new title, maybe with new voices too
User avatar
Disney Duster
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 13334
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
Gender: Male
Location: America

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by Disney Duster »

I hate it when they re-theme stuff and it doesn't fit.

I think if they re-theme it, it should be a brand new theme not based on an existing IP. Something that actually makes sense with being on a log flume and going down mountains with water.

But I don't want it re-themed at all really. I actually wish Disney would just release Song of the South with context! I wish Song of the South and especially The Princess and the Frog weren't seen as problematic. But c'mon there's racism in Dumbo and no one wants to re-theme that ride!
Image
User avatar
DisneyBluLife
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:36 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by DisneyBluLife »

Disney Duster wrote:
But I don't want it re-themed at all really. I actually wish Disney would just release Song of the South with context! I wish Song of the South and especially The Princess and the Frog weren't seen as problematic. But c'mon there's racism in Dumbo and no one wants to re-theme that ride!
Or Peter Pan. Ugh :roll:
User avatar
unprincess
Collector's Edition
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:00 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by unprincess »

its funny b/c both Pocahontas and PATF Disney tried to be real careful about being as PC as possible with the stories and characters at the time but it just ended up backfiring on them. Same with Frozen 2. Trying to make it all about female empowerment and including diverse characters yet someone forgot to tell them they also turned Elsa into a white savior trope. :roll:

as for Splash Mountain I was thinking rethemeing it to a Moana ride by changing the log flume into her boat. But it wouldn't really fit with the Frontierland theme.
User avatar
JeanGreyForever
Signature Collection
Posts: 5335
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:29 pm

Re: Petition to re-theme Splash Mountain

Post by JeanGreyForever »

unprincess wrote:its funny b/c both Pocahontas and PATF Disney tried to be real careful about being as PC as possible with the stories and characters at the time but it just ended up backfiring on them. Same with Frozen 2. Trying to make it all about female empowerment and including diverse characters yet someone forgot to tell them they also turned Elsa into a white savior trope. :roll:

as for Splash Mountain I was thinking rethemeing it to a Moana ride by changing the log flume into her boat. But it wouldn't really fit with the Frontierland theme.
And both Pocahontas and Tiana turned out to be their two least popular princesses. As for Frozen 2, it has the added insult to injury that they tried to retcon Elsa so she isn't white anymore or not completely white anyway.

Pocahontas would fit the theme of Frontierland the most. They did plan a ride for her back in the day but it was cancelled because it clashed with their Fantasmic expansion as seen below. A pity.
http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief ... olumn.aspx
ImageImage
We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey
Post Reply