Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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Super Aurora
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

Post by Super Aurora »

blackcauldron85 wrote: Yesterday my husband was talking about this show. He is one of the Star Wars fans who is unhappy with the direction the franchise has been going in; he wishes this was a film- I guess he thinks less of it since it's a TV show, but he said they better not mess it up (implying that Star Wars will be dead to a large part of the fan base if so)...
As a mega old school Star Wars fan myself, I agree with your husband. Disney has handled this golden goose of a franchise with ridiculous results. Your husband is right that Star Wars will soon be on life support. I'm guessing your husband not excited for the Mandalorian because that idea originally was going to be the Boba Fett stand alone movie.

Now it's looking like it's a tv series adaption of the disney's EU novel, Aftermath by Chuck Wendig which is below mediocre. Both this series and Aftermath takes place right after Return of the Jedi. Both feature a character named Cobb Vanth (and in Aftermath, He pick up Mandalorian armor from Jawa on Tatooine) who become sort of a sheriff lawman in a new lawless town etc. And Jon Faveru is a supporter of Chuck Wendig.
JeanGreyForever wrote:I'm sorry to hear that your husband has been so disillusioned with Star Wars lately.
JeanGreyForever wrote:Tbh, I don't really understand this hyperbole type of talk that many Star Wars fans do, about how the franchise has been ruined because of one or two films or a TV series that they didn't like.
How was he disillusion? Disney Wars is shit. And not just him, a large fanbase of people felt same way. The thing you have to realize is that Star wars fans have a huge dedicated passion and love for the Star wars lore and mythology. On level of comic books, star trek fans etc. Many of it helped been built thanks to the Expanded Universe stuff that started back in 1991 with introduction of Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy novels (which are fantastic). From there, the Star wars franchise and brand blew up for good span of 20 years until Disney bought them. On my experience ( can't speak for Black Cauldron's husband), I knew where Disney was taking the franchise and how little they really care about it the moment they announced right from start that they are decanonizing and scrapping any EU stuff prior to Disney buyout. You just cut a huge ass chunk of your fanbase and customers in half already from there. Me being one of them as I had the foresight to see where it was going to head, before even Force Awaken came out. and then when Last Jedi came out, You Cut it massively even more down.

Not all fans are just going guzzle up and take in anything crap disney try shove at us.

blackcauldron85 wrote:He doesn't hate The Force Awakens, but I think he feels that it's a retread of A New Hope.

It is essentially is. It was done to reel back in old fans for nostalgia points. It's even more obvious if you get the Force Awaken Art book, where you see the slow process of it initially being something actually something interesting and cool to becoming just a shallow retrend of A New Hope the moment JJ Abram came on board.
blackcauldron85 wrote:After watching Solo, he said it wasn't as bad as he was expecting.

A good chunk of the people skip it as a response message to disney company after the disastrous Last Jedi movie, as well as the fact that people from Disney, Lucasfilm, and journalist who shill for Disney were calling anyone who criticized The Last Jedi as racist, sexist, bigot, and many other names. If that's how they want to be, then fans will obviously going to speak with their wallets. And Solo shows that. Even the Rise of Skywalker, given the information were have, seems to be trying to retcon The Last Jedi in hopes to win back the fans who left. But by that point, it's too late.

blackcauldron85 wrote:I honestly feel that he watches negative YouTube videos and that changes his perception...I could be wrong, though.
I don't think so at all. He probably had his own opinion already from what he saw and saw other fans who shared his sentiment.
blackcauldron85 wrote:For me, I'm the kind of Star Wars fan that is happy to go on whatever journey they present to me. I've never been disappointed in any of the movies
It's fine that you like these movies. No one can take that away from you, and more power to you for liking them. The thing as mention above is that when fans who voice their opinion of criticism of the direction, we get called numerous labels because we aren't consuming it the way disney wants us to.
blackcauldron85 wrote:I liked when
Rose/Finn freed the horses, but my husband/YouTubers poopoo on that...).
The problem with that scene was that it was a pointless scene other than to shove a subliminal animal rights message, and that it was hypocritical that rose and finn freed the animals but not the slave kids. The Whole Canto Bight scene was pointless.
blackcauldron85 wrote:But Star Wars isn't my #1 fandom; Disney's movies aren't all tied together like the Star Wars plots are, so unless they retcon, part of me sees where the fans could be upset, because a plot they don't like can "plague" the other films' plots... I know that my hubby is excited for the return of Palpatine. Sorry for sidetracking this thread!! :oops:
That's was the problem many fans had. Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi pretty much ignored anything JJ set up in Force Awaken thus feeling you're watching a completely different film altogether. I never like Force Awaken, but even if I did, i'd still be upset with TLJ because of that. It's being a disservice for even the fans of Force Awaken.
JeanGreyForever wrote: I've been pleased with all the films as well and I'm also happy with whatever route Star Wars takes us so far. I never understood the hatred for Leia's flying scene (Mary Poppins it is not)
It seems not so much hatred, as much as how poorly shot and executed that scene was.

JeanGreyForever wrote:nor the scene where Rose and Finn free the fathiers even though both get a lot of flack for some reason.

See my point above

JeanGreyForever wrote: Then again, Luke and Leia were meant to be together until he actually became her brother. :lol:
Fun fact about that was Luke and Leia were never initally were suppose to be siblings. Lucas had plans for episode 7,8,9 in early 80's before working on Jedi. In that concept plans, Luke's sister was someone they haven't met yet. The emperor lived and was able succeed in luring Luke to dark side. It was Luke's mysterious long lost sister that was to journeyed to go find Luke and save him. the Dark Horse comic, Dark Empire, is based on that scrapped storyline lucas had planned. Somewhere along closer to making Jedi, he scrapped idea of making more and just decided to combined Leia and Luke as the siblings.

JeanGreyForever wrote:(not to mention there are little to no Star Wars fans on here lol).
hi.

JeanGreyForever wrote:The Mandalorian so far doesn't seem like it'll tie-in to the films too much and because of the setting,
If it's like speculated as based off from Aftermath novel, then it ties closer than many would think imo.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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Super Aurora wrote:I'm guessing your husband not excited for the Mandalorian because that idea originally was going to be the Boba Fett stand alone movie.
That would make sense!
Super Aurora wrote:Now it's looking like it's a tv series adaption of the disney's EU novel, Aftermath by Chuck Wendig
I never put two and two together, but I guess Disney would use all the new books to mine from when making the movies (there has been talk for years about an Ahsoka movie, right?, and I know she has her own book...)
Super Aurora wrote:Many of it helped been built thanks to the Expanded Universe stuff that started back in 1991 with introduction of Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy novels (which are fantastic)...how little they really care about it the moment they announced right from start that they are decanonizing and scrapping any EU stuff prior to Disney buyout. You just cut a huge ass chunk of your fanbase and customers in half already from there.
Yes, my hubby is very upset with EU "not counting" anymore. (I'm so glad you posted- you're helping me understand everything he's upset with even if he doesn't spell it out each time he complains. Too bad he's not a forum member; you guys could have some good discussions!!!!)
blackcauldron85 wrote:He doesn't hate The Force Awakens, but I think he feels that it's a retread of A New Hope.
Super Aurora wrote:It is essentially is. It was done to reel back in old fans for nostalgia points.
And I know this, but...my favorite part of Star Wars has always been the characters (hell, I'm a Jar Jar fan), so I like the new characters: Maz, BB-8, Rey, Finn, Poe...too bad Captain Phasma wasn't bigger... So I guess that's why I can't complain too much, because I like seeing what happens to the characters...
Super Aurora wrote:Even the Rise of Skywalker, given the information were have, seems to be trying to retcon The Last Jedi in hopes to win back the fans who left. But by that point, it's too late.
Yeah, in some ways, J.J. has no choice but to retcon, right? I wonder what his true thoughts on TLJ are... Super Aurora, what are your thoughts on TLJ's Luke? (With me being lazy and not checking the TLJ thread...)
blackcauldron85 wrote:After watching Solo, he said it wasn't as bad as he was expecting.
Super Aurora wrote:A good chunk of the people skip it as a response message to disney company after the disastrous Last Jedi movie, as well as the fact that people from Disney, Lucasfilm, and journalist who shill for Disney were calling anyone who criticized The Last Jedi as racist, sexist, bigot, and many other names. If that's how they want to be, then fans will obviously going to speak with their wallets. And Solo shows that.
blackcauldron85 wrote:I honestly feel that he watches negative YouTube videos and that changes his perception...I could be wrong, though.
Super Aurora wrote:I don't think so at all. He probably had his own opinion already from what he saw and saw other fans who shared his sentiment.
I guess I should've elaborated. So, he felt the same as the people who wasn't going to watch Solo, but I bought it, and like I said, he thought it wasn't as bad as he was expecting. But if you ask him now, he'll talk about how Disney is killing SW, no one wanted a Solo movie, about Kathleen Kennedy's gender politics. But then I remind him, "But you didn't hate it!" :p
blackcauldron85 wrote:For me, I'm the kind of Star Wars fan that is happy to go on whatever journey they present to me. I've never been disappointed in any of the movies
Super Aurora wrote:It's fine that you like these movies. No one can take that away from you, and more power to you for liking them. The thing as mention above is that when fans who voice their opinion of criticism of the direction, we get called numerous labels because we aren't consuming it the way disney wants us to.
Yeah, I don't expect every SW fan to agree with me at all! Like I said before, SW isn't my #1 fandom, so I'm more of a casual fan who will pay for the movie ticket/DVD/a few merch items. Who is calling the unhappy fans "numerous labels?" I guess I only hear the fandom complaining, so I don't know about the other side.
Super Aurora wrote:The problem with that scene was that it was a pointless scene other than to shove a subliminal animal rights message, and that it was hypocritical that rose and finn freed the animals but not the slave kids. The Whole Canto Bight scene was pointless.
Oooohhhh, that's a good point. I'm all about rescue animals, so they were my focus there. :p I never even thought that freeing the slaves was an option, but I suppose they could've tried to smuggle them out.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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blackcauldron85 wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:Now it's looking like it's a tv series adaption of the disney's EU novel, Aftermath by Chuck Wendig
I never put two and two together, but I guess Disney would use all the new books to mine from when making the movies (there has been talk for years about an Ahsoka movie, right?, and I know she has her own book...)
I don't believe I heard any Ahsoka movie been talked before however, while back they confirm that the final season of Clone wars will be coming soon to Disney streaming where Ahsoka does play a large role in. You might be thinking of that. Clone wars never got to be finished and was canceled when Disney bought Lucasfilm.

blackcauldron85 wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:Many of it helped been built thanks to the Expanded Universe stuff that started back in 1991 with introduction of Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy novels (which are fantastic)...how little they really care about it the moment they announced right from start that they are decanonizing and scrapping any EU stuff prior to Disney buyout. You just cut a huge ass chunk of your fanbase and customers in half already from there.
Yes, my hubby is very upset with EU "not counting" anymore. (I'm so glad you posted- you're helping me understand everything he's upset with even if he doesn't spell it out each time he complains. Too bad he's not a forum member; you guys could have some good discussions!!!!)
No Problem! Glad to help. It been a REALLY long time since I last posted on this forum. I would love to chat with him about Star Wars lol. I think we'd have a good conversation.
blackcauldron85 wrote:Super Aurora, what are your thoughts on TLJ's Luke? (With me being lazy and not checking the TLJ thread...)
I don't think I have posted in that thread because i haven't posted on this forum in a long time. Anyway, I think TLJ's take on Luke was one of the major reason many fans were unhappy with the film. I wasn't a fan of it either. While in concept, the idea of Luke closing off to the force and remaining a recluse sounds interesting, it was poorly done and also it negate and contradict everything that stood about the story arc of Luke's journey and growth in original trilogy. The scene that where he explains he was tempted to kill his nephew because he felt "some darkness" in him felt way out of character to the Luke in Jedi that went out his way to redeem his tyrannical and murderous father back to good. It's something Luke would never do. And to run away afterwards adds insult to it. You have to remember that Luke is a major reason so many fans were looking forward to the sequel trilogy. For Luke. TLJ seems to like it took a back stab on him and his character and to the fans who were looking forward to him
blackcauldron85 wrote:I guess I should've elaborated. So, he felt the same as the people who wasn't going to watch Solo, but I bought it, and like I said, he thought it wasn't as bad as he was expecting. But if you ask him now, he'll talk about how Disney is killing SW, no one wanted a Solo movie, about Kathleen Kennedy's gender politics. But then I remind him, "But you didn't hate it!" :p
I see. To be honest, I don't think Solo would be horrible to begin with but as mention previously, many fans were dissatisfied with what happen prior and so want to send message to company they were not happy with their handling of franchise and so vote with wallet. He's not wrong about the things you listed though.
blackcauldron85 wrote: Who is calling the unhappy fans "numerous labels?" I guess I only hear the fandom complaining, so I don't know about the other side.
Too many to list. Many speak about it through twitter, or journalist news article etc. Even people within Lucasfilm attacking fans for their opinions. I hear and read about them from my colleges but never got involved myself. Not into that bullshit. I just say i'm done and move on.
blackcauldron85 wrote:Oooohhhh, that's a good point. I'm all about rescue animals, so they were my focus there. :p I never even thought that freeing the slaves was an option, but I suppose they could've tried to smuggle them out.
My problem is, do you really need that in a Star Wars film? It felt really out of place and took me completely out of the movie as if I was watching a completely different movie. The whole Canto Bight scene as a whole felt like that.

All in All, that's my take on Star Wars currently. I'm mainly an Original trilogy guy with few EU stuff I like. That's it. Not fan of prequels either. But for different reasons compared to sequel trilogy and I don't hate it as much as sequel trilogy either.

In my opinion, Star Wars was, to me, simple movies made at right time and period it was made and I don't think you can add on to the whether it is sequel or prequel. The three movies made in 70s/80s came at perfect timing when movie making ideas was changing into something new and exciting, with use of puppetry, matte paintings, set designs, technology, exploring the classic story tropes, and the influences of numerous classic mythologies and genres. The 80s done a lot on that. You can't replicate it. Similar with Terminator, Alien, Robocop etc. Trying to bring back now, either won't work or is very difficult in trying do so. But that's the funny thing about many of these classic 80s films. They become so beloved that the evolved into franchise and then other people try to replicate or add on to it which often times don't always work.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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Super Aurora wrote:The scene that where he explains he was tempted to kill his nephew because he felt "some darkness" in him felt way out of character to the Luke in Jedi that went out his way to redeem his tyrannical and murderous father back to good. It's something Luke would never do.


I agree with this!!!
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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How was he disillusion? Disney Wars is shit. And not just him, a large fanbase of people felt same way. The thing you have to realize is that Star wars fans have a huge dedicated passion and love for the Star wars lore and mythology. On level of comic books, star trek fans etc. Many of it helped been built thanks to the Expanded Universe stuff that started back in 1991 with introduction of Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy novels (which are fantastic). From there, the Star wars franchise and brand blew up for good span of 20 years until Disney bought them. On my experience ( can't speak for Black Cauldron's husband), I knew where Disney was taking the franchise and how little they really care about it the moment they announced right from start that they are decanonizing and scrapping any EU stuff prior to Disney buyout. You just cut a huge ass chunk of your fanbase and customers in half already from there. Me being one of them as I had the foresight to see where it was going to head, before even Force Awaken came out. and then when Last Jedi came out, You Cut it massively even more down.

Not all fans are just going guzzle up and take in anything crap disney try shove at us.
That's your opinion which you're perfectly entitled to but you don't get to speak for everyone, let alone "a large fanbase of people." The sad truth is that most of the EU was trash. Yes, it produced some amazing books, but that was a small minority compared to Darksaber, Crystal Star, The Jedi Academy Trilogy, The New Jedi Order, etc. Did you forget about the Yuzzhan Vong and how they took cluttered up most Star Wars stories after their introduction? Or how IG-88 literally became the Death Star? Or Chewbacca's death (did you really think they were just going to leave him dead for the new films)? Or even the fact that before Rogue One, there were three separate stories about how the Death Star plans were stolen by the Rebel Alliance and none of them were ever any good. Heir to the Empire may have brought Star Wars back to life, in time for the Special Editions and the prequels (regardless of how you feel about them), but if you look past the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, most of it hasn't aged well. I mean Luuke, really? Alien creatures that can repel the force? The convoluted backstory of clones? Disney did a great job clearing all of this away, especially because general audiences were not familiar with this nor could you expect them to be beholden to these works when even many hardcore fans had lost interest with the EU's direction. And Lucas himself would disregard the EU whenever he wanted to like Timothy Zahn's rendition of the Clone Wars or the evolution of Mara Jade's character. I'm not saying Disney has done everything amazing, since little to none of their books have left any impression on me, but overall, their films have been adopted into the public consciousness which is more than you can say for pretty much 99% of the EU.
It is essentially is. It was done to reel back in old fans for nostalgia points. It's even more obvious if you get the Force Awaken Art book, where you see the slow process of it initially being something actually something interesting and cool to becoming just a shallow retrend of A New Hope the moment JJ Abram came on board.
If they hadn't gone for the nostalgia points, the film would have been received as well as the prequels. Doing so united audiences and brought back Star Wars after it had been creatively dead for a decade at that point, at least for the general public. BTW, most of those scrapped concepts from TFA art book are being implemented in TROS so maybe you ought to give it a chance then if you actually feel like you missed out on those things.
A good chunk of the people skip it as a response message to disney company after the disastrous Last Jedi movie, as well as the fact that people from Disney, Lucasfilm, and journalist who shill for Disney were calling anyone who criticized The Last Jedi as racist, sexist, bigot, and many other names. If that's how they want to be, then fans will obviously going to speak with their wallets. And Solo shows that. Even the Rise of Skywalker, given the information were have, seems to be trying to retcon The Last Jedi in hopes to win back the fans who left. But by that point, it's too late.
Honestly, this has been disproven so many times. Solo suffered from marketing mismanagement, not to mention the general lack of hype for a film that wasn't really asked for. The new casting was a turnoff for a lot of Harrison Ford fans (who's the most popular and famous Star Wars actor) and the change of directors brought in a lot of ill will as well. The release date was the last straw since Bob Iger forced it to be released in the summer to accomodate Mary Poppins Returns as the sole family film for the winter holidays and we saw how well that film did. At the end, one film was sacrificed for the sake of the other, but both flopped. Yet, all over online, I've seen Star Wars fans who missed out on Solo for whatever reasons but actually end up liking it after watching it and I know many people in real life who feel the same way. And frankly, most TLJ haters are sexist or racist which is evident from their garbage opinions. Literally, JJ Abrams has flat out said that TLJ won't be retconned in TROS so I'm not sure where you are getting this information from. In fact, he said that Rian Johnson's choices in his film inspired him to depart from the traditional Star Wars structure and really branch out and do bigger and better things. Considering you criticized TFA for being a "remake," I would think you'd be happier about the fact that Abrams is going to go all out for this new film.
I don't think so at all. He probably had his own opinion already from what he saw and saw other fans who shared his sentiment.
Mob mentality is a real thing and it's really easy to be disillusioned after you keep hearing the same negative opinions being spouted over and over by people who think it's cool to hate on TLJ or Star Wars in general now. Negative comments online are always more prominent than anything positive anyway.
The problem with that scene was that it was a pointless scene other than to shove a subliminal animal rights message, and that it was hypocritical that rose and finn freed the animals but not the slave kids. The Whole Canto Bight scene was pointless.
So now animal rights is a bad thing? That alone shows me why people label TLJ haters as sexists, racists, and bigots in general. Politics have always been a major part of Star Wars since the very beginning. The original trilogy was a criticism of the Vietnam War while the prequels were a political allegory of the Iraq War and had thinly veiled jabs at Bush's administration. In fact, the sequels are the least politically oriented in comparison and no, showcasing a female lead and a minority male lead does not count as shoving politics down people's throats.

The point of Canto Bight was to show that the rich are profiting off war at the expense of people like Broom Boy or Rose, who hail from poor planets or backgrounds and are treated as slaves. At the same time, we see DJ and discover that Rose and Finn's black and white view that the First Order is the only group being aided by the rich war profiteers isn't true because the Resistance is just as complicit and getting their weapons from tem as well. Most importantly, Canto Bight was necessary because it is the catalyst for Finn's shift of perspective. The end of TFA and the beginning of TLJ show that his main concern is Rey and taking her as far away from this conflict in the galaxy as possible. It is Rose and his experience on Canto Bight that makes him see that he can't stand by when so much of the galaxy is being oppressed which brings about his heel turn when he takes pride in being "rebel scum" and is willing to even sacrifice himself for the cause. Unfortunately, Finn nor Rose were at liberty to rescue the kids at that point. Their greater mission was to find the master codebreaker so they could save the last remnants of the Resistance from the First Order. Only if that occurs, can hope survive long enough in the galaxy to one day be able to rescue these kids and we see that at the end with Broom Boy and his friends. The fathiers were released as a distraction so they could escape with the added bonus of freeing them. If you have complaints about this, why not complain about why Qui-Gon never frees the slaves on Tatooine like Anakin thought he was there for? They don't even try and rescue Shmi years afterwards.
That's was the problem many fans had. Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi pretty much ignored anything JJ set up in Force Awaken thus feeling you're watching a completely different film altogether. I never like Force Awaken, but even if I did, i'd still be upset with TLJ because of that. It's being a disservice for even the fans of Force Awaken.
I'm not even gonna get into this part because I've never understood this argument and it's pretty much been disproved over and over. A quick google search ought to educate you because people more patient than I am can explain the fallacies in your "logic." All the plot points that are brought up in TFA are continued and/or resolved in TLJ such as Rey meeting Luke, Finn becoming a full-fledged rebel, Kylo and Rey's relationship, Kylo usurping his master, etc.
Fun fact about that was Luke and Leia were never initally were suppose to be siblings. Lucas had plans for episode 7,8,9 in early 80's before working on Jedi. In that concept plans, Luke's sister was someone they haven't met yet. The emperor lived and was able succeed in luring Luke to dark side. It was Luke's mysterious long lost sister that was to journeyed to go find Luke and save him. the Dark Horse comic, Dark Empire, is based on that scrapped storyline lucas had planned. Somewhere along closer to making Jedi, he scrapped idea of making more and just decided to combined Leia and Luke as the siblings.
I'm well aware of this which is why the sequel haters who claim that the problems sprung about from not having one director or clear, coherent plan come across as hypocritical because the OT was created in literally the exact same way. Darth Vader being Luke's father was a last minute change and as you yourself said, Leia was shoehorned in in the final film once it was decided that they wasn't going to be episodes 7, 8, and 9 and Lucas needed to make clear why Yoda said "there is another."
If it's like speculated as based off from Aftermath novel, then it ties closer than many would think imo.
I haven't read those novels although like you, I've heard terrible things about them. However, I've never heard about The Mandalorian being a straight adaptation of that. There are some parallels that I think were written in the books to set up the plot in the show, not the other way around. BTW, The Mandalorian was never supposed to be a Boba Fett spinoff film. This show has been planned for a very long time, whereas the rumored Fett film was cancelled after Solo underperformed (and will probably resurface as a Disney+ streaming show like Obi-Wan Kenobi has been confirmed to). One never replaced the other. In fact, it's general knowledge that The Mandalorian is inspired, if not directly a remake, of Lucas' cancelled live-action TV show, Star Wars: Underworld. In fact, many elements from the new spinoff films and even the sequel trilogy came from what Lucas wanted to introduce in that show if you read the "release and legacy" section in the link below.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Underworld
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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JeanGreyForever wrote:The release date was the last straw since Bob Iger forced it to be released in the summer to accomodate Mary Poppins Returns as the sole family film for the winter holidays and we saw how well that film did. At the end, one film was sacrificed for the sake of the other, but both flopped. Yet, all over online, I've seen Star Wars fans who missed out on Solo for whatever reasons but actually end up liking it after watching it and I know many people in real life who feel the same way.


All but the new movies were released in May; you think that Solo would've done better if it was released in the winter?
JeanGreyForever wrote:In fact, he said that Rian Johnson's choices in his film inspired him to depart from the traditional Star Wars structure and really branch out and do bigger and better things.
I hadn't read J.J.'s thought's on TLJ, so that's interesting. I'll have to share that with the hubby, thank you.
JeanGreyForever wrote:Their greater mission was to find the master codebreaker so they could save the last remnants of the Resistance from the First Order. Only if that occurs, can hope survive long enough in the galaxy to one day be able to rescue these kids and we see that at the end with Broom Boy and his friends. The fathiers were released as a distraction so they could escape with the added bonus of freeing them.
:clap: I agree with this.
JeanGreyForever wrote:In fact, it's general knowledge that The Mandalorian is inspired, if not directly a remake, of Lucas' cancelled live-action TV show, Star Wars: Underworld.
I have never heard of that before. Interesting that they used some of the elements from this in Solo. It's so interesting that they didn't allow certain books to even be written so those plots could be used on the show that never was made!! :o
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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blackcauldron85 wrote: All but the new movies were released in May; you think that Solo would've done better if it was released in the winter?

There was a decade gap between Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens though. Disney established a precedent for a new Star Wars movie every Christmas (something they look like they'll continue with their upcoming schedule for both Star Wars and Avatar) so Solo was the odd one out in that respect. Audiences had come to associate Star Wars with the winter holidays so many people weren't expecting a new film so soon and some didn't even know it had been released or thought it wouldn't come out until December. Some people also say that Star Wars fatiguekicked in since there was only a five/six month gap between TLJ and Solo. Every other film had a full year in between which kept audiences interested. Plus, May has become more associated with Marvel films these days and Solo faced a lot of competition between other studios' releases as well as some of Disney's own. Infinity War and Deadpool 2 come to mind and I think there was another major release as well if I'm not mistaken.

So yeah, I think winter would have been a better time although I'm still not sure it would have been a huge blockbuster hit but it would definitely have done better than it did. Kathleen Kennedy wanted to release the film in December but it was Bob Iger who changed the date. I think there was an article or interview where he flat out admitted that was a mistake.
blackcauldron85 wrote: I hadn't read J.J.'s thought's on TLJ, so that's interesting. I'll have to share that with the hubby, thank you.
Here's a link to that btw to show your husband.
https://www.geekfeed.com/rian-johnson-a ... pisode-ix/
blackcauldron85 wrote: I have never heard of that before. Interesting that they used some of the elements from this in Solo. It's so interesting that they didn't allow certain books to even be written so those plots could be used on the show that never was made!! :o
Yeah, I'm glad that those unused plotlines can find fresh life with the new shows and movies.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

Post by Super Aurora »

Ooooh BOY. HERE WE GO!


JeanGreyForever wrote: That's your opinion which you're perfectly entitled to but you don't get to speak for everyone, let alone "a large fanbase of people."
Majority of the people I know and talk to and even people I come across on web seems share the same sentiment. Keep in mind, You are the one that called us who are unhappy with Disney's Star Wars, "Disillusioned". I can't speak for the others as they are capable of defending themselves on their own, but I have to defend my own if you are to call me that.





JeanGreyForever wrote:The sad truth is that most of the EU was trash. Yes, it produced some amazing books, but that was a small minority compared to Darksaber, Crystal Star, The Jedi Academy Trilogy, The New Jedi Order, etc.
There were bad ones. No one is disputing that. But their were some fantastic ones too as you said, as well. My beef is that They scrap entirety of it rather than just scrap the shit ones. It's more obvious that Disney realized how popular and beloved many of the EU is are they try bringing many elements back into it, although despite that, it's doesn't feel the same (Thrawn) or poor knock off ( Kylo ren is pretty much Jacen Solo). The ones you list are bad.


JeanGreyForever wrote:Did you forget about the Yuzzhan Vong and how they took cluttered up most Star Wars stories after their introduction?
They did drag on too long. But it did have a fanbase. Other wise Dave Filoni wouldn't have been planning to incorporated them in the canceled final season
of The Clone Wars ( I dunno if they will be back for upcoming one for disney+ streaming).



JeanGreyForever wrote:Or how IG-88 literally became the Death Star?
Oh come on. lol That was stupid and dumb but made me laugh.



JeanGreyForever wrote:Or Chewbacca's death (did you really think they were just going to leave him dead for the new films)?


They killed off Han and Luke. Leia is irl dead. might as well kill Chewbacca while you're at it.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Or even the fact that before Rogue One, there were three separate stories about how the Death Star plans were stolen by the Rebel Alliance and none of them were ever any good.
This is only one I'm unfamiliar with. The one I'm always familiar with is the Kyle Katern one. what other one is there? And Kyle Katern story From Dark Forces was good. I disagree with you on that.




JeanGreyForever wrote:Heir to the Empire may have brought Star Wars back to life, in time for the Special Editions and the prequels (regardless of how you feel about them), but if you look past the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, most of it hasn't aged well.
I disagree. Heir to Empire seems to age rather well compared to the other EU stories. But if you're going to go the aging well argument, you can say there are elements in Prequels, or even some stuff in OT that hasn't age well.




JeanGreyForever wrote:I mean Luuke, really?
Alien creatures that can repel the force?
Name was dumb but Fighting clone luke wasn't. It was done as a means in story for Mara Jade to end her Mission by the Emperor she was designed to fullfilled. It was for her to move on. I like it. As for the Ysalamiri, i have no problem with them and they're fine. I like the use of them as a means for Thrawn have some levelage against the jedis other wise he wouldn't be that threaten and would get beaten easily by the jedi and C'Bouth

JeanGreyForever wrote:The convoluted backstory of clones?
To be fair, this novel and many others that involved the cloning story were made at time before Prequels came out and solidified the clone wars back story. Back then people had to used their imagination what the clone wars was possibly be about.


JeanGreyForever wrote:Disney did a great job clearing all of this away, especially because general audiences were not familiar with this nor could you expect them to be beholden to these works when even many hardcore fans had lost interest with the EU's direction.
Disney always been about catering to lowest common denominator and the general mass. This is why I knew Star Wars will not become as successful as Disney hoped. Star Wars, despite being a iconic big brand, has a core niche fans. Lucas, who is a smart business man, didn't do that and why he been so successful all these times prior to disney buyout. Even in the prequel era, as blacklash as the films got, was producing successful merchandises, EU from that timeline, video games etc for the fans who did enjoy them and grew a dedicated fanbase within that era it's self.. Barely anyone are even buying the Sequel trilogy toys or products. Why? Fans care less for them and aren't interested. Barely anyone cares about Rose Tico, Jyn Orso, etc.



JeanGreyForever wrote:And Lucas himself would disregard the EU whenever he wanted to like Timothy Zahn's rendition of the Clone Wars or the evolution of Mara Jade's character.
He did but he also praised many of EU aspect too. Shadow of the Empire comes to mind on that one right down to implementing cameos in A New Hope Special Edition, wish he had thought of of it back then, and forming entire marketing for it even down to having it's own soundtrack.

JeanGreyForever wrote:I'm not saying Disney has done everything amazing, since little to none of their books have left any impression on me, but overall, their films have been adopted into the public consciousness which is more than you can say for pretty much 99% of the EU.
The films been adopted to public consciousness because that who general audience go for, and Disney being Disney, want to capitalize one that. The problem is that even if we take EU out of equation that are more geared to hardcore fans, the films alone show that the sequel trilogy is unfaithful and poor in even attempt on following in faith of OT or Prequels (again, i'm not a fan of the prequels but there are many who are so giving that out there)

JeanGreyForever wrote:If they hadn't gone for the nostalgia points, the film would have been received as well as the prequels.
You don't know that 100% for sure. I think just having Luke Leia and Han back together is enough to do so. Problem is, they went TOO similar. JJ Abram is a good visual director, but when comes to being creative in story and characters, he's poor on that. He also sets things up but never delivers on them. Lost comes to mind on that. It shows many times on a numerous of his Bad Robot projects. And this extends not just Him but many in that Bad Robot circle.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Doing so united audiences and brought back Star Wars after it had been creatively dead for a decade at that point, at least for the general public.
For one film. The TLJ came and you see where that went.
JeanGreyForever wrote:BTW, most of those scrapped concepts from TFA art book are being implemented in TROS so maybe you ought to give it a chance then if you actually feel like you missed out on those things.
Define "most"? Cause only two I know of they reusing from that is the Death Star II debris submerge in water, and the Emperor. And still, as I mention before, the fact they are now going back to reusing the old concept for TFA for TROS shows they either have no clue what's to do hence why they're bring the fucking Emperor back of all things and it shows that TLJ wrote themselves to a corner.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Honestly, this has been disproven so many times. Solo suffered from marketing mismanagement, not to mention the general lack of hype for a film that wasn't really asked for. The new casting was a turnoff for a lot of Harrison Ford fans (who's the most popular and famous Star Wars actor) and the change of directors brought in a lot of ill will as well. The release date was the last straw since Bob Iger forced it to be released in the summer to accommodate Mary Poppins Returns as the sole family film for the winter holidays and we saw how well that film did. At the end, one film was sacrificed for the sake of the other, but both flopped.
Those are also true. However, what I mention is also a factor. Many people I know and possibly many I don't know, were not happy with TLJ and in addition to the crap they had deal with from people within
JeanGreyForever wrote:Yet, all over online, I've seen Star Wars fans who missed out on Solo for whatever reasons

I gave you some of reason they skip it. If you don't want to acknowledge that, then that's on you.
JeanGreyForever wrote:but actually end up liking it after watching it and I know many people in real life who feel the same way.
Many i come across felt it was mediocre or alright. I haven't seen it still.
JeanGreyForever wrote:And frankly, most TLJ haters are sexist or racist which is evident from their garbage opinions.
AND THERE YOU HAVE IT. Now multiply that by hundreds on twitter and other social media sites and then you'll know what SW fans are pissed. When fans criticized Prequel era, did Lucasfilm company call them those names? No, because the political climate wasn't what it became now thanks to Social media assholes. And many of us who give reason for why TLJ suck donkey balls gave legit sounding reason.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Literally, JJ Abrams has flat out said that TLJ won't be retconned in TROS so I'm not sure where you are getting this information from. In fact, he said that Rian Johnson's choices in his film inspired him to depart from the traditional Star Wars structure and really branch out and do bigger and better things.
I heard him say that shit too. But here's the thing. How much of that of what he said is PR fluff and how much is that genuine? Cause every thing we're seeing and reading about TRoS from trailers, vanity fair mag etc, seems to contradict. Bringing back Anakin's/luke's lightsaber that got blown to pieces in TlJ? Kylo Ren repairing his helmet after he smashes it to pieces in TLJ? Snoke dead. oh ok we'll bring Emperor back? I could go on.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Considering you criticized TFA for being a "remake," I would think you'd be happier about the fact that Abrams is going to go all out for this new film.
It's not only criticism i have for it but is one of them. By this point I don't care. If he succeed good for him. I think it's going to be a disastrous mess. He's directing it but the writers are the same people who wrote that horrendous Justice League Movie. with the two combine. I could only imagine. I have little to no faith it this movie.


Mob mentality is a real thing and it's really easy to be disillusioned after you keep hearing the same negative opinions being spouted over and over by people who think it's cool to hate on TLJ or Star Wars in general now. Negative comments online are always more prominent than anything positive anyway.

I don't think anyone wanted hate it to be "cool". Many saw these movies, and they decided to voice their opinion on subject matter (most on youtube). Some in comment would pop in comments and say "yeah i agree with you" or "yeah i saw that movie too. it sucks". sure there are some that go overboard and those ones usually doing it for internet attention or just bored.

JeanGreyForever wrote:So now animal rights is a bad thing? That alone shows me why people label TLJ haters as sexists, racists, and bigots in general.
No one say animal rights is a bad thing. But honestly, why the fuck you need that in a fucking Star Wars movie? Only other than to shove a political message down people throats regardless if they are for or against that topic. Would you like it if a movie like Star Wars (especially an escapism one) shoved a Conservative political message like pro life message in it (or even another liberal message? I dunno your politic so just throwing that out there just in case) No, you wouldn't. Same deal here. And even though I am conservative, I still wouldn't want any conservative messages shove either in a fucking Star Wars film.

The reason so many are reacting and rightfully criticizing these political pandering in entertainment is because many in Hollywood media world are using these entertainment medium as mouth piece and as response to stick it to current administration. But to normal audience members, they don't give a shit about your political beliefs (the few who do applaud their "bravery" are quite honestly a small minority with a loud mouth), and quite frankly don't want any of that shit in products they are paying out of their wallets to consume.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Politics have always been a major part of Star Wars since the very beginning.
SInce when? Star Wars was made because Lucas:

1) Want make a Flash Gordon movie but couldn't get rights or what's not

2) And want make something that incorporate everything Lucas love. from Movie genres, to various mythologies , to WWII, to cool things like Samurais etc

JeanGreyForever wrote:The original trilogy was a criticism of the Vietnam War
The fuck? where? OT was a love letter to WWII influence. Tie fighter vs X-wings is reminisce of WWII airplane dog fight. Empire is amalgam of British empire and the Nazi. Han Solo's blaster is based on Nazi Luger pistol.
JeanGreyForever wrote:while the prequels were a political allegory of the Iraq War and had thinly veiled jabs at Bush's administration.
No. The Prequel political scheme that the Emperor hatch and especially how he became the emperor and the fall of the republic is again harken back to how Hitler took over Germany and the rise of the Nazi regime. He over threw the weak German democracy and gain support to be nominated as furher of Germany. Very similar with the Emperor. The last part about bush is true. I remember that being pointed out back in the day. And even back then, I remember people criticized that as something dumb.

All in all, even using Prequels as frame of reference for the politics. It was never one side or other and the fictional politics used in prequels were used as a frame structure to overall trilogy giving use of Coruscant, the republic etc.

JeanGreyForever wrote:In fact, the sequels are the least politically oriented in comparison
Holy shit no. lol
JeanGreyForever wrote:and no, showcasing a female lead and a minority male lead does not count as shoving politics down people's throats.
It's not even that. And even if you count that. The marketing made it out as such to overblown level especially Rey, rather than just treating them as simply characters. You never saw them do this with any of OT or Prequel characters.

JeanGreyForever wrote:The point of Canto Bight was to show that the rich are profiting off war at the expense of people like Broom Boy or Rose, who hail from poor planets or backgrounds and are treated as slaves.
Yeah only that. And it was point that didn't go anywhere and i highly doubt will be revisited either whether in TRoS or any future movies. Also, that implications already been kinda shown before at a more subdue level with Watto on a street level with the slavery and Jabba the Hutt on a more bigger scale. The Canto Bight scene seems way more blaring as if they was to hammer you down with it. When I saw that scene where DJ explains that shit to Rose and Finn, I said to myself, "I know. People like Jabba been doing that for years before."

P.S i'm a hardcore Jabba the hutt fan lol. Got a $800 statue of him. So beautiful.



JeanGreyForever wrote:At the same time, we see DJ and discover that Rose and Finn's black and white view that the First Order is the only group being aided by the rich war profiteers isn't true because the Resistance is just as complicit and getting their weapons from tem as well.
As mention before, on paper that's an interesting angle. However, you know they aren't going to anywhere with that route or revisit it. It's going come back down again in TRoS with good vs evil angle. FO vs Resistance.



JeanGreyForever wrote:Most importantly, Canto Bight was necessary because it is the catalyst for Finn's shift of perspective. The end of TFA and the beginning of TLJ show that his main concern is Rey and taking her as far away from this conflict in the galaxy as possible.
It is Rose and his experience on Canto Bight that makes him see that he can't stand by when so much of the galaxy is being oppressed which brings about his heel turn when he takes pride in being "rebel scum" and is willing to even sacrifice himself for the cause.
Here's the problem. That character arc of Finn happened in TFA where defect from FO to get out of the conflict and then later at maz's place want to leave on his own and want nothing to do with even Resistance's conflict. Basically a coward. But he gradually overcame that, and accept to assist Rey and Resistance and even overcame his cowardness by bravely challenging Kylo Ren. Now jump to TLJ, Finn's character arc that already been resolved at end of TFA got recycled back to beginning again. want opt of of Resistance and rey as well as you mention, only to have now Rose be the one to change his view ONCE AGAIN. Finn had most potential and they shat on him.

JeanGreyForever wrote:Unfortunately, Finn nor Rose were at liberty to rescue the kids at that point. Their greater mission was to find the master codebreaker so they could save the last remnants of the Resistance from the First Order.
And they failed. And they story got written to a corner.
JeanGreyForever wrote:Only if that occurs, can hope survive long enough in the galaxy to one day be able to rescue these kids and we see that at the end with Broom Boy and his friends.
And that's the thing. As I said before, You know they'll never going to revisit this shit. Rian Johnson add too many over complicated plot points that even as general audiences viewer could see will never go anywhere nor would they think this was ever going be the intentions.


JeanGreyForever wrote:The fathiers were released as a distraction so they could escape with the added bonus of freeing them.

There were so many ways to distract those idiots. Hell fucking BB-8 could of hatch up 20 different schemes lol


JeanGreyForever wrote:If you have complaints about this, why not complain about why Qui-Gon never frees the slaves on Tatooine like Anakin thought he was there for? They don't even try and rescue Shmi years afterwards.
First off, i'm not a prequel guy. i never like prequels. But If want my explanation on that, first Qui gon went there to gets parts for ship. That was the initial intention. When they got to Mos Espa, they came across Anakin. When Qui-Gon discovered this kid is ripe for Jedi grooming, he found a huge bonus. two bird one stone. Qui-Gon was never virtuousness and moral type guy. When he used his jedi skills to manipulate the bet against watto in his favor shows that. Also through out the trilogy, shows that the jedi weren't as moral good or just as they made themselves out to be. It's partly how Emperor was able to decieve them and win. The Jedi could give less a shit about the slaves.


JeanGreyForever wrote:
That's was the problem many fans had. Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi pretty much ignored anything JJ set up in Force Awaken thus feeling you're watching a completely different film altogether. I never like Force Awaken, but even if I did, i'd still be upset with TLJ because of that. It's being a disservice for even the fans of Force Awaken.
I'm not even gonna get into this part because I've never understood this argument and it's pretty much been disproved over and over. All the plot points that are brought up in TFA are continued and/or resolved in TLJ such as Rey meeting Luke, Finn becoming a full-fledged rebel, Kylo and Rey's relationship, Kylo usurping his master, etc.
Oh really? Show me how this was disproved over and over again. What about the rey handing Anakin's lightsaber to luke? At end of TFA, the last ending shot was meant as something big to come and you the audience is excited for next film to see how rey and luke bond over the connect of that saber. What did Johnson do? AH have Luke throw it over his shoulder into the water for comedic laugh. In TFA, rey was meant to be something more than she is , and Maz obviously hint to rey about her past, her parents, and linage. Johnson decided have Rey's parent were nobodies. Snoke was built to be someone akin to emperor not to mess with, but who is he? how he came to be? Why he so strong? Ah let's kill him him off leaving all those questions fans want invest in, crumble to ground. I could go on.


JeanGreyForever wrote:A quick google search ought to educate you because people more patient than I am can explain the fallacies in your "logic."

This sounds like more like you have no rebuttal against this argument with using the excuse of using "people who have more patient than I" despite spending how long typing out these huge ass paragraph response back at me. You obviously have the time for that.


Fun fact about that was Luke and Leia were never initally were suppose to be siblings. Lucas had plans for episode 7,8,9 in early 80's before working on Jedi. In that concept plans, Luke's sister was someone they haven't met yet. The emperor lived and was able succeed in luring Luke to dark side. It was Luke's mysterious long lost sister that was to journeyed to go find Luke and save him. the Dark Horse comic, Dark Empire, is based on that scrapped storyline lucas had planned. Somewhere along closer to making Jedi, he scrapped idea of making more and just decided to combined Leia and Luke as the siblings.
I'm well aware of this which is why the sequel haters who claim that the problems sprung about from not having one director or clear, coherent plan come across as hypocritical because the OT was created in literally the exact same way. Darth Vader being Luke's father was a last minute change and as you yourself said, Leia was shoehorned in in the final film once it was decided that they wasn't going to be episodes 7, 8, and 9 and Lucas needed to make clear why Yoda said "there is another."[/quote]

I never heard that complaint about not having one director. I didn't mind if they went multiple directors as even OT did that. I do disagree with you saying about "clear, coherent plan come across as hypocritical because the OT was created in literally the exact same way." Yes, OT have few missteps as you mention. But even with those in consideration, the three movies overall felt large coherent. and this was largely that, while yes lucas had other directors and people who help guide him, he was still the overall visionary linchpin that held it together.




JeanGreyForever wrote:I haven't read those novels although like you, I've heard terrible things about them. However, I've never heard about The Mandalorian being a straight adaptation of that. There are some parallels that I think were written in the books to set up the plot in the show, not the other way around.
That's what i'm hearing. Not straight up adaption but a lot of parallels. I'm saying that i wouldn't be surprise if it is a straight up adaptation of that segment of the story.



JeanGreyForever wrote:BTW, The Mandalorian was never supposed to be a Boba Fett spinoff film. This show has been planned for a very long time, whereas the rumored Fett film was cancelled after Solo underperformed (and will probably resurface as a Disney+ streaming show like Obi-Wan Kenobi has been confirmed to). One never replaced the other. In fact, it's general knowledge that The Mandalorian is inspired, if not directly a remake, of Lucas' cancelled live-action TV show, Star Wars: Underworld. In fact, many elements from the new spinoff films and even the sequel trilogy came from what Lucas wanted to introduce in that show if you read the "release and legacy" section in the link below.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Underworld
Yeah I heard about Underworld and was disappointed it never happen. The other one is that video game that got canceled when disney bought Lucasfilm call Star Wars 1313 which was a gritty underworld action adventure game.



Wheew That was a god damn lot to type out. I can't do this anymore. reminds me partly why i don't come on here anymore. All and all, I'm defending my position and view on disney wars and want others know how fans like us feel. I was happy to hear Black Cauldron response and respectively reply. It was good debating with you and glad to debate with someone else who has a good knowledge of Star wars and it's fandom culture. You're free to respond back but I won't be responding back. Just throwing that out there.

BTW, I like your username. I'm a big fan of Jim Lee's 90's Jean Grey and own two statues of her.One by Sideshow and one by Bowen Design. Waiting for the new sideshow one to come in.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

Post by JeanGreyForever »

Majority of the people I know and talk to and even people I come across on web seems share the same sentiment. Keep in mind, You are the one that called us who are unhappy with Disney's Star Wars, "Disillusioned". I can't speak for the others as they are capable of defending themselves on their own, but I have to defend my own if you are to call me that.
Honestly, I've seen my fair share of dissatisfied Star Wars fans online, but for every unhappy one, I've seen about a dozen fans pleased with the sequel trilogy. I think hate is very easy to spread and it's generally louder anyway which is why the haters get so much credit. I don't think there's nearly as many of them as much as the fact that they're just incredibly vocal with their opinions. I'll also say that I'm reading the forums and social media and many people who supposedly disavowed Star Wars after TLJ and vowed not to watch the next film, are reconsidering after the new footage released for The Rise of Skywalker. IMO, it's silly to give up on a franchise you love just because of one or two films you may not have liked.
There were bad ones. No one is disputing that. But their were some fantastic ones too as you said, as well. My beef is that They scrap entirety of it rather than just scrap the shit ones. It's more obvious that Disney realized how popular and beloved many of the EU is are they try bringing many elements back into it, although despite that, it's doesn't feel the same (Thrawn) or poor knock off ( Kylo ren is pretty much Jacen Solo). The ones you list are bad.
So far, Disney has been reincorporating elements of the EU that they feel were worth including. I'm not a huge EU fan so I don't recognize all the stuff, especially ships and vehicles, but Thrawn is the biggest example of a character who was incorporated into the new canon. Black Sun and Prince Xizor's race still exist and I think so does Dash Rendar, or at least his ship. Mara Jade has been rumored a few times although we haven't seen anything concrete yet. Most of the reception towards the new Thrawn has been fairly positive and while there are some Kylo haters, he consistently ranks as the most popular character from the sequel trilogy (besides Rey and BB8) and I've heard many people say the opposite, that he improved on a flawed Jacen Solo's character arc.
They did drag on too long. But it did have a fanbase. Other wise Dave Filoni wouldn't have been planning to incorporated them in the canceled final season
of The Clone Wars ( I dunno if they will be back for upcoming one for disney+ streaming).
In my experience, most Star Wars fans felt the Yuzzhan Vong were intrusive and didn't fit into the lore. Even the ones who didn't mind them felt they lasted too long as you yourself said. I'm not a Dave Filoni fan so this just gives me more reason to not like him since I heard the same. I'm not sure if they'll be in the new Disney+ season either but I hope not.
JeanGreyForever wrote:Or how IG-88 literally became the Death Star?
Oh come on. lol That was stupid and dumb but made me laugh.
The same could be said about certain things in the sequel trilogy that really pissed off some people like "Leia Poppins," Luke throwing his lightsaber away, or Poe's joke about Hux at the beginning of TLJ.
They killed off Han and Luke. Leia is irl dead. might as well kill Chewbacca while you're at it.
Han was killed off because Harrison Ford has wanted his character to die since The Empire Strikes Back. He pretty much only took the role under the condition that he would be killed off although it's rumored that we'll see him again in TROS. In fact, when Episode 7 was first beginning, George Lucas pitched the film to Luke, Leia, and Palpatine's actors, not Han's. Luke was always meant to die, even in George Lucas' treatment for the sequel trilogy. He's a special case since he can come back as a force ghost (as has been confirmed) and there's rumors that he may fully materialize or even partake in the final battle as the ghosts of Obi-Wan and/or Yoda were meant to in early drafts of Return of the Jedi. Another thing to keep in mind is that characters like Luke, Leia, and Han are pretty much tied to one actor only (which is half the flack Solo got for recasting). A character like Chewbacca though can survive throughout generations because you just need the suit and the voice hence why he's been recast but there was no controversy about that.
This is only one I'm unfamiliar with. The one I'm always familiar with is the Kyle Katern one. what other one is there? And Kyle Katern story From Dark Forces was good. I disagree with you on that.
I know Kyle Katarn is a popular character and while the game was well received, I remember the plotline was considered muddy. Here's some articles about all the different plotlines since it's so confusing for me to really summarize and I'm not familiar with all the material myself luckily. The first link is the shortest so the easiest to read while the other two are more comprehensive if you don't mind reading a lot.
https://www.techtimes.com/articles/1483 ... stolen.htm
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-obscenely-c ... 1790153881
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rogue- ... ns-retcon/
I disagree. Heir to Empire seems to age rather well compared to the other EU stories. But if you're going to go the aging well argument, you can say there are elements in Prequels, or even some stuff in OT that hasn't age well.
Some criticism that Heir to the Empire gets nowadays is that it feels a lot more sci-fi than Star Wars usually is since most fans feel Star Wars is more space fantasy than sci-fi. Also, while the story works in the form of books, it isn't very cinematic and wouldn't translate well to screen. Dark Empire is a personal favorite of mine from the EU and that always felt far more cinematic and it even took a lot of inspiration from Lucas' plans for his Ep. 7, 8, and 9. I think it's one of the few EU things he actually liked anyway. That's probably why I also like the Sequel Trilogy so far because it's taken a lot of inspiration from Dark Empire, especially Episode 9 so far. The prequels have a lot of problematic elements so I agree with you on that. That's true for the OT as well (to a much lesser extent) even though many people are blind to those issues. But in that case, the Sequel Trilogy isn't very different if anyone is going to criticize it for that.
Name was dumb but Fighting clone luke wasn't. It was done as a means in story for Mara Jade to end her Mission by the Emperor she was designed to fullfilled. It was for her to move on. I like it. As for the Ysalamiri, i have no problem with them and they're fine. I like the use of them as a means for Thrawn have some levelage against the jedis other wise he wouldn't be that threaten and would get beaten easily by the jedi and C'Bouth
Rumor has it that the whole clone thing might return in TROS so I'm curious if they'll implement that or not. I did like how they got Mara Jade to fulfill her mission but the name of the clone was outright ridiculous and online, so many people make fun of it, even Heir to the Empire fans. I can see why people don't like the Ysalamiri because they really don't fit well in canon and it makes you wonder why regular people just didn't use them especially in scenarios like the Clone Wars against the Jedi.
To be fair, this novel and many others that involved the cloning story were made at time before Prequels came out and solidified the clone wars back story. Back then people had to used their imagination what the clone wars was possibly be about.
That is very true but it also shows that George Lucas wasn't beholden to this version of the Clone Wars. He chose to ignore it and use his own version, so the EU was never 100% set in stone anyway even before Disney. Thus, your favorite EU stories still exist and you can still enjoy them since they really aren't anymore canon now than they used to be. Lucas had his famous hierarchy of canon with the movies at the very top, and the books were just in the middle somewhere. Like Disney, he took what he liked (such as the name of Coruscant) but ignored what he didn't care for which was most of the EU anyway.
Disney always been about catering to lowest common denominator and the general mass. This is why I knew Star Wars will not become as successful as Disney hoped. Star Wars, despite being a iconic big brand, has a core niche fans. Lucas, who is a smart business man, didn't do that and why he been so successful all these times prior to disney buyout. Even in the prequel era, as blacklash as the films got, was producing successful merchandises, EU from that timeline, video games etc for the fans who did enjoy them and grew a dedicated fanbase within that era it's self.. Barely anyone are even buying the Sequel trilogy toys or products. Why? Fans care less for them and aren't interested. Barely anyone cares about Rose Tico, Jyn Orso, etc.
I have to disagree with you on a lot of stuff here. The video games are still selling even with Battlefront 2's controversy because EA managed to earn some goodwill with the fans and the new video game they're making has attracted a lot of positive attention. Not to mention, the new Lego game. Video games in general are something Disney has been weak on (Marvel has the same issue) because they're focusing more on app games. The sequel trilogy not being popular in toys has been disproven by countless articles. Toys in general are selling less and less because children want digital stuff and aren't interested in physical toys. The early 2000s was a very different time for the toy market compared to the mid-2010s. Rose may get a lot of online hate, but her actress always gets the most applause during conventions and fan expos while Jyn headlined her own film and lots of people loved her and her film. Even many Disney haters feel that Rogue One was the best film Disney made for Star Wars.
He did but he also praised many of EU aspect too. Shadow of the Empire comes to mind on that one right down to implementing cameos in A New Hope Special Edition, wish he had thought of of it back then, and forming entire marketing for it even down to having it's own soundtrack.
Shadows of the Empire was an EU project that Lucas was directly behind every aspect of which is why he even included it in canon. It was a sort of test run before the Special Editions which were a test run for the prequels. Shadows of the Empire is one of my favorite EU stories and one that I wish Disney had included in canon since Lucas basically gave it his blessing.
The films been adopted to public consciousness because that who general audience go for, and Disney being Disney, want to capitalize one that. The problem is that even if we take EU out of equation that are more geared to hardcore fans, the films alone show that the sequel trilogy is unfaithful and poor in even attempt on following in faith of OT or Prequels (again, i'm not a fan of the prequels but there are many who are so giving that out there)
I don't really understand your point that "the films alone show the sequel trilogy is unfaithful and poor in even attempt on following in faith of OT or Prequels." Can you explain why you feel that is the case because I know so many fans who hated the prequels (like you do) and feel the Sequels are more in line with the OT. I've seen many people disillusioned with Star Wars online because of the prequels but they fell in love again because of what Disney has done and consider Disney's stuff canon while they still ignore the prequels. To play devil's advocate, I've seen fans who also ignore what Disney has done, with half of those ignoring the prequels as well (pretending nothing existed for Star Wars after Return of the Jedi in 1983) while the other half love anything Lucas has done including the prequels and the Clone Wars TV show.
You don't know that 100% for sure. I think just having Luke Leia and Han back together is enough to do so. Problem is, they went TOO similar. JJ Abram is a good visual director, but when comes to being creative in story and characters, he's poor on that. He also sets things up but never delivers on them. Lost comes to mind on that. It shows many times on a numerous of his Bad Robot projects. And this extends not just Him but many in that Bad Robot circle.
You're right, but TLJ is the best indicator because all the hate it supposedly gets (and keep in mind that it's been proven that Russian bots were behind the audience ratings and even a lot of the social media comments, hence why after Captain Marvel, Rotten Tomtaoes changed their system) is because it strayed to far from Star Wars. So fans apparently are never happy because either something is too similar to Star Wars (TFA) or too different (TLJ). I'm not really familiar with Abrams outside of Star Wars since I never watched Lost after all the complaints and I'm not a Star Trek fan.
For one film. The TLJ came and you see where that went.
I'd like to point out that The Empire Strikes Back had a very similar public reaction that just isn't remembered today because there was no Internet or social media back then to track audience reception. I've read newsletters and fan magazine comments that have been transcribed online and a lot of people complained about TESB even then for being too bold and different from Star Wars, not to mention all the twists like Han and Leia's relationship, Ben returning as a force ghost, and of course Luke's parentage. Not to mention the unhappy ending got a lot of flack. I even remember reading a fan magazine before the film came out where fans were complaining about rumors that Luke and Leia wouldn't be a couple or the fact that Vader might be Luke's father and how that would destroy Star Wars forever. Yet, this film is considered the best one ever since then. I'd give TLJ time to breathe especially since we haven't even seen the full trilogy be completed yet. I'd reckon that a lot of TLJ (and TFA too) will hold up better once you've seen the end with TROS. Nowadays, it's easy to feel that way about the OT because many fans were born after the films were already released so there was no wait and they already knew how the story would end.

Also I might add that it's silly to discount the entire franchise just because one movie disappointed.
Define "most"? Cause only two I know of they reusing from that is the Death Star II debris submerge in water, and the Emperor. And still, as I mention before, the fact they are now going back to reusing the old concept for TFA for TROS shows they either have no clue what's to do hence why they're bring the fucking Emperor back of all things and it shows that TLJ wrote themselves to a corner.
Lucas always planned to bring Palpatine back in his treatment and Kathleen Kennedy confirmed this was always the plan as well. JJ Abrams even got Lucas to come and help him on TROS so it's clear that Palpatine was always setup. There's allusions to this in TLJ with Snoke (using word for word dialogue from Palpatine and sharing his theme), not to mention many books and video games (like the Aftermath books and Battlefront 2) have hinted at Palpatine's larger agenda as well. I ask you to keep an open mind since TROS will likely illuminate on all of this. Once more, don't judge until you've seen the full trilogy and story complete. A lot of the TFA deleted concepts are being rumored right now, but stuff like the Rebels using Death Star technology for their ships, a flashback of Han and Leia dropping Ben off to Luke, a flashback of Luke training Leia and her deciding to reject Jedi training, Rey being a Skywalker or Solo (and a sibling or twin of Kylo), Luke's severed hand floating in space (if Rey is a clone created from that), Kylo's vision of Anakin turning into Vader, etc. have been indicated from spoilers and leaked material as stuff that can happen in TROS. The red Star Destroyers from TFA have sorta come into play with the Sith Troopers.
Those are also true. However, what I mention is also a factor. Many people I know and possibly many I don't know, were not happy with TLJ and in addition to the crap they had deal with from people within
Honestly, I think it's silly to reject all future films just because of one film that people supposedly didn't like. Especially since a lot of TLJ haters were people who wanted Boba Fett, Obi-Wan, or Darth Maul films and all of those ideas were cancelled because of Solo flopping. So if a large amount of those haters really did skip out on Solo, they just made matters worse for themselves. Because at the end of the day, the films they hated (TFA, RO, TLJ) were super successful, both critically and especially commercially) despite or because of having a female lead while the one with a conventional male lead was what flopped.
Many i come across felt it was mediocre or alright. I haven't seen it still.
Perhaps you ought to give Solo a chance since you seem to love discussing its failure so much when it would be more productive to talk about the film's actual content. Who knows, aybe you might end up liking it somewhat. If not, then maybe you can use your newfound knowledge from watching it to explain why the film underperformed then. You'd have more credibility to speak of it that way.
Last edited by JeanGreyForever on Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

Post by JeanGreyForever »

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT. Now multiply that by hundreds on twitter and other social media sites and then you'll know what SW fans are pissed. When fans criticized Prequel era, did Lucasfilm company call them those names? No, because the political climate wasn't what it became now thanks to Social media assholes. And many of us who give reason for why TLJ suck donkey balls gave legit sounding reason.
I call them as I see them because of the ridiculous fan petitions, the hate that Kelly Marie Tran got online to the point that she left social media (which also occurred to Daisy Ridley before), then all the hate that Rian Johnson got, and even the nonsense that was the fanedits that removed all female characters from the film. People complaining that Finn or Poe were emasculated by Rose, Holdo, Rey, Leia, whatever.
I heard him say that shit too. But here's the thing. How much of that of what he said is PR fluff and how much is that genuine? Cause every thing we're seeing and reading about TRoS from trailers, vanity fair mag etc, seems to contradict. Bringing back Anakin's/luke's lightsaber that got blown to pieces in TlJ? Kylo Ren repairing his helmet after he smashes it to pieces in TLJ? Snoke dead. oh ok we'll bring Emperor back? I could go on.
Honestly, not really. Leia and Rey's last shot in the film (before we see Broom Boy) is holding the lightsaber pieces together as if it is meant to be repaired. Considering how Kylo has been grappling for it and Rey is clearly attuned to it somehow and we haven't gotten her full origin yet, it makes sense to bring back the lightsaber for story purposes, especially in a film that is tieing together all previous films in the saga. Why would Rey make a new lightsaber when she has one that called for her anyway? Ren repairing his helmet is because he only destroyed it because of Snoke taunting him. Snoke is dead now and tbh, the even more clear reason to bring his helmet back is for selling merchandise and toys. The new helmet (with the red lining in the cracks) is something fans will jump to buy. Snoke was killed off to subvert audience expectations and because in the final film of the saga, he doesn't have enough clout to be the big bad. That was always Palpatine and he was clearly always meant to be brought back.
It's not only criticism i have for it but is one of them. By this point I don't care. If he succeed good for him. I think it's going to be a disastrous mess. He's directing it but the writers are the same people who wrote that horrendous Justice League Movie. with the two combine. I could only imagine. I have little to no faith it this movie.
I'm not a big fan of the fact that the Justice League writers are working on this but Daisy Ridley said they were very fastidious in their work and they had a "Star Wars bible" which they carried around to make everything fit in the story.
I don't think anyone wanted hate it to be "cool". Many saw these movies, and they decided to voice their opinion on subject matter (most on youtube). Some in comment would pop in comments and say "yeah i agree with you" or "yeah i saw that movie too. it sucks". sure there are some that go overboard and those ones usually doing it for internet attention or just bored.
From what I've seen online, people will hate just because they know that hate is louder and more vocal and will get more clicks.
No one say animal rights is a bad thing. But honestly, why the fuck you need that in a fucking Star Wars movie? Only other than to shove a political message down people throats regardless if they are for or against that topic. Would you like it if a movie like Star Wars (especially an escapism one) shoved a Conservative political message like pro life message in it (or even another liberal message? I dunno your politic so just throwing that out there just in case) No, you wouldn't. Same deal here. And even though I am conservative, I still wouldn't want any conservative messages shove either in a fucking Star Wars film.

The reason so many are reacting and rightfully criticizing these political pandering in entertainment is because many in Hollywood media world are using these entertainment medium as mouth piece and as response to stick it to current administration. But to normal audience members, they don't give a shit about your political beliefs (the few who do applaud their "bravery" are quite honestly a small minority with a loud mouth), and quite frankly don't want any of that shit in products they are paying out of their wallets to consume.
Star Wars has always had liberal messages in them so by your logic, you should hate all the previous films, the OT and PT both. It's not shoving a political message down anyone's throats except for people so easily triggered because they feel personally attacked. That tells me a lot about your character and your views than it does anything else. Believe me, you didn't have to tell me that you are conservative since I got that from your comments already but I really wonder why you are a fan of this franchise at all considering George Lucas' views and how he has never bothered to hide them but in fact proudly displays them in his movies. I'm not gonna get into a political argument with you because it's clear we will never agree on this but I find it very revealing how much anger you hold on "political messages" and the fact that you consider stuff like animal rights, human rights, diversity in gender, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. to be something that is anathema to you. Remember that you are on a Disney forum and at the end of the day, the Disney Company is super liberal especially in their new content so I imagine you aren't pleased in general. If you're so offended, you ought to just boycott the company and Hollywood in general.
No. The Prequel political scheme that the Emperor hatch and especially how he became the emperor and the fall of the republic is again harken back to how Hitler took over Germany and the rise of the Nazi regime. He over threw the weak German democracy and gain support to be nominated as furher of Germany. Very similar with the Emperor. The last part about bush is true. I remember that being pointed out back in the day. And even back then, I remember people criticized that as something dumb.

All in all, even using Prequels as frame of reference for the politics. It was never one side or other and the fictional politics used in prequels were used as a frame structure to overall trilogy giving use of Coruscant, the republic etc.
The political allegories are very clear but I'll post some articles you can browse if you want to know what they are since I probably couldn't catch all of the details in a coherent manner. Yes, Lucas wanted to make a Flash Gordon style film but he wasn't shy about inserting a political message in the OT. As for the rise of Palpatine and who he was based off of, the first article in particular tells you who Lucas felt he was best compared to in the prequels.
https://time.com/4975813/star-wars-poli ... rge-lucas/
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/sorry-ted ... nd-liberal
It's not even that. And even if you count that. The marketing made it out as such to overblown level especially Rey, rather than just treating them as simply characters. You never saw them do this with any of OT or Prequel characters.
I literally have no idea what you mean about the marketing overblowing Rey in the films. Do you mean, Rey the lead character of the sequel trilogy? Gee, I wonder why the marketing would display her more prominently compared to other characters? That would be as outlandish as making Iron Man or Captain America the face of the Avengers or Newt Scamander the main picturized character in the Fantastic Beasts films. Kathleen Kennedy flat out said that Rey is the Luke of this trilogy but I imagine you wouldn't have issues with Luke (or Anakin) being promoted as the main hero of his trilogy. I think the real issue here is that Rey is female in the first place since you made clear your views on the other female protagonist, Jyn.
Yeah only that. And it was point that didn't go anywhere and i highly doubt will be revisited either whether in TRoS or any future movies. Also, that implications already been kinda shown before at a more subdue level with Watto on a street level with the slavery and Jabba the Hutt on a more bigger scale. The Canto Bight scene seems way more blaring as if they was to hammer you down with it. When I saw that scene where DJ explains that shit to Rose and Finn, I said to myself, "I know. People like Jabba been doing that for years before."

P.S i'm a hardcore Jabba the hutt fan lol. Got a $800 statue of him. So beautiful.
Sifo-Dyas was never revisited in future films despite that being an ongoing mystery. Stuff like these subplots are always meant to be addressed in supplementary material like books, comics, video games, etc. because they have no room for resolution in the films. Also, the point is that TROS is still the ongoing fight against the First Order. They won't be able to save the enslaved children and stop the war profiteers until after the war itself is finished, when happens to coincide with the film's ending. They aren't going to end the film halfway through so that scenes like Canto Bight can be revisited for the rest of the film to stand up to your criticism. The idea is that when the Resistance wins, the galaxy will be free and the slavery on Canto Bight will be able to be stopped then. It's no different from how in Beauty and the Beast, you don't need to see Belle and the prince actually get married because it's a given with a happy ending. That's nice that you're a Jabba fan although I dread just why you may like him so much if I'm being honest. Return of the Jedi was always my favorite of the OT (an unpopular choice I know) and I always liked the Jabba sequence a lot.
Here's the problem. That character arc of Finn happened in TFA where defect from FO to get out of the conflict and then later at maz's place want to leave on his own and want nothing to do with even Resistance's conflict. Basically a coward. But he gradually overcame that, and accept to assist Rey and Resistance and even overcame his cowardness by bravely challenging Kylo Ren. Now jump to TLJ, Finn's character arc that already been resolved at end of TFA got recycled back to beginning again. want opt of of Resistance and rey as well as you mention, only to have now Rose be the one to change his view ONCE AGAIN. Finn had most potential and they shat on him.
Except all of Finn's actions, like going to Starkiller Base and facing off Kylo Ren, were because of Rey. He's not doing this for the Resistance but for her and that's why he needs TLJ to progress into a character who will stick around for the cause, not just for the girl. Hence why TLJ opens with him disinterested in the space battle and wanting to only find Rey.
There were so many ways to distract those idiots. Hell fucking BB-8 could of hatch up 20 different schemes lol
The writers choose to include the fathiers instead of BB-8, since he already helps DJ escape and find a ship. Makes sense that they would want to focus on something new than usual droid antics.
First off, i'm not a prequel guy. i never like prequels. But If want my explanation on that, first Qui gon went there to gets parts for ship. That was the initial intention. When they got to Mos Espa, they came across Anakin. When Qui-Gon discovered this kid is ripe for Jedi grooming, he found a huge bonus. two bird one stone. Qui-Gon was never virtuousness and moral type guy. When he used his jedi skills to manipulate the bet against watto in his favor shows that. Also through out the trilogy, shows that the jedi weren't as moral good or just as they made themselves out to be. It's partly how Emperor was able to decieve them and win. The Jedi could give less a shit about the slaves.
You're right about the Jedi in the PT, which is a plotpoint that Luke mentions in TLJ when he tells Rey that the Jedi failed to stop Darth Sidious rise because of their hubris. However, the point stands that just like the Jedi weren't there on Tatooine to free the slaves, the Resistance was not there at Canto Bight to free the slaves. However, it's clear that their larger goal is to restore peace to the galaxy so they can free all enslaved people. The setting doesn't need to be directly revisited because it's a given.
Oh really? Show me how this was disproved over and over again. What about the rey handing Anakin's lightsaber to luke? At end of TFA, the last ending shot was meant as something big to come and you the audience is excited for next film to see how rey and luke bond over the connect of that saber. What did Johnson do? AH have Luke throw it over his shoulder into the water for comedic laugh. In TFA, rey was meant to be something more than she is , and Maz obviously hint to rey about her past, her parents, and linage. Johnson decided have Rey's parent were nobodies. Snoke was built to be someone akin to emperor not to mess with, but who is he? how he came to be? Why he so strong? Ah let's kill him him off leaving all those questions fans want invest in, crumble to ground. I could go on.
I don't get the issue about Luke throwing away the lightsaber. He rejected that destiny of his so what did you expect him to do, politely hand it back or stand there frozen forever until Rey herself stops offering the lightsaber to him? Rey Random isn't really that different from Anakin who himself was a nobody with no father and a nobody mother. The Skywalker name is famous because of his bloodline but that's because he was the Chosen One. Nobody questions why Anakin was the Chosen One since he didn't have a famous parent or grandparent. He was born the Chosen One through the Force so is it really that difficult to believe then that the Force would similarly act through Rey to counterbalance the darkness of Kylo Ren (as Snoke himself says). Anyway Rey's story is not finished so consider that in TROS. Snoke's story is yet to come as well, even if not in TROS, then in the supplmentary material, including maybe the Knights of Ren stuff being released before TROS is released. Even so, I expect that Palpatine will reveal more about Snoke especially if he has been possessing him or even was him.
This sounds like more like you have no rebuttal against this argument with using the excuse of using "people who have more patient than I" despite spending how long typing out these huge ass paragraph response back at me. You obviously have the time for that.
I've given you a rebuttal against the stuff you directly said above. But this is a tired argument which neither you nor I are ever going to reason with each other about. And yes, I'm starting to regret responding at all since I've clearly spent a lot of time typing all this out.
I never heard that complaint about not having one director. I didn't mind if they went multiple directors as even OT did that. I do disagree with you saying about "clear, coherent plan come across as hypocritical because the OT was created in literally the exact same way." Yes, OT have few missteps as you mention. But even with those in consideration, the three movies overall felt large coherent. and this was largely that, while yes lucas had other directors and people who help guide him, he was still the overall visionary linchpin that held it together.
Once more, the OT has been complete and you've had the luxury of seeing them all together complete with years of reflecting on how they fit together. The Sequel Trilogy is not complete so give it the opportunity to be fully released so you can then accurately judge it for yourself on how "coherent" it supposedly is. And from everything I've heard, the reason the OT was so well received is because Lucas was moderated by the people around him including his ex-wife. The PT lacked this since Lucas was fully in control.
That's what i'm hearing. Not straight up adaption but a lot of parallels. I'm saying that i wouldn't be surprise if it is a straight up adaptation of that segment of the story.
I've heard some parallels but I really doubt it's a straight-up adaptation. We'll have to wait and see though.
Yeah I heard about Underworld and was disappointed it never happen. The other one is that video game that got canceled when disney bought Lucasfilm call Star Wars 1313 which was a gritty underworld action adventure game.
Yeah, it's a pity 1313 got cancelled as well. Which also goes to show that Star Wars video games, before the Disney buyout, had faults of their own like The Old Republic MMO which hasn't been as well received as the original Knights of the Old Republic games.
Wheew That was a god damn lot to type out. I can't do this anymore. reminds me partly why i don't come on here anymore. All and all, I'm defending my position and view on disney wars and want others know how fans like us feel. I was happy to hear Black Cauldron response and respectively reply. It was good debating with you and glad to debate with someone else who has a good knowledge of Star wars and it's fandom culture. You're free to respond back but I won't be responding back. Just throwing that out there.
BTW, I like your username. I'm a big fan of Jim Lee's 90's Jean Grey and own two statues of her.One by Sideshow and one by Bowen Design. Waiting for the new sideshow one to come in.
Anyway, I enjoyed discussing with you as well. I wanted to respond to you because there were some remarks I felt you needed to hear, so it's a pity you won't be responding back but I respect your decision and understand it. It's certainly taken a long time compiling all of this so I don't blame you for being tired of typing more out.

Thanks for the username props. I'm a big Jean fan as well although my fav eras of her were in the 70s as Phoenix with Chris Claremont writing her and then in her 80s X-Factor days with Louise Simonson behind the pen. However, I think she's super underrated in the 90s and she had some great moments there even if The Animated Series was a terrible depiction.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

Post by blackcauldron85 »

JeanGreyForever wrote: Here's a link to that btw to show your husband.
https://www.geekfeed.com/rian-johnson-a ... pisode-ix/
Thank you!!

How is saving the horses political?!?

Oh, speaking of Rey (she was mentioned!), one huge complaint the hubby has is that she is a "Mary Sue" and she'll never lose, she was able to use a lightsaber with no training...
SuperAurora wrote:Rian Johnson add too many over complicated plot points that even as general audiences viewer could see will never go anywhere nor would they think this was ever going be the intentions.
Do directors have absolute say/no one can tell them "No?" Because weren't Lord & Miller fired over Solo? I mean, did Kathleen Kennedy believe that Rian Johnson wasn't doing a good job on TLJ, did she think that some of the stuff he was doing would never be revisited?
SuperAurora wrote:Johnson decided have Rey's parent were nobodies.
But Kylo could've been lying to her, right?
JeanGreyForever wrote:The video games are still selling even with Battlefront 2's controversy because EA managed to earn some goodwill with the fans and the new video game they're making has attracted a lot of positive attention.
Oh boy, you keep jogging my memory about things the hubby complains about. His #1 fandom is video games- huge gamer, and did he ever complain about EA's (?) treatment of this game!!
JeanGreyForever wrote:The sequel trilogy not being popular in toys has been disproven by countless articles.
We watched a YouTube video saying how much the toys didn't sell, and that's what hubby thinks now, too...
JeanGreyForever wrote:Russian bots were behind the audience ratings and even a lot of the social media comments, hence why after Captain Marvel, Rotten Tomtaoes changed their system
:o Holy crap, I had no idea!
JeanGreyForever wrote:A lot of the TFA deleted concepts are being rumored right now, but stuff like the Rebels using Death Star technology for their ships, a flashback of Han and Leia dropping Ben off to Luke, a flashback of Luke training Leia and her deciding to reject Jedi training, Rey being a Skywalker or Solo (and a sibling or twin of Kylo), Luke's severed hand floating in space (if Rey is a clone created from that), Kylo's vision of Anakin turning into Vader, etc. have been indicated from spoilers and leaked material as stuff that can happen in TROS. The red Star Destroyers from TFA have sorta come into play with the Sith Troopers.
Wow, I didn't know *any* of that!!! Some exciting things!!!!!!!!!! So totally Kylo *potentially* lied to Rey about her parents...did he not want her distracted by it or something?

My biggest question for TRoS: Will there be Porgs? I am obsessed, I collect them, and I just want to see more of them!

*This* is why I come to the forum, for huge, thought-out discussions like this one! You two have got me out of bed early two days in a row- I have learned a lot from both of you, so thank you!!!
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

Post by JeanGreyForever »

blackcauldron85 wrote: How is saving the horses political?!?
Saving the fathiers really isn't political but apparently it comes across that way to many conservative members of the fandom. Keep in mind that many people felt that Rey being a woman, Finn being black, Rose being Vietnamese, or Rogue One having a racially diverse cast were all political messages, and that's not even touching the character of Holdo who inspired so much vitriol for even existing.
blackcauldron85 wrote: Oh, speaking of Rey (she was mentioned!), one huge complaint the hubby has is that she is a "Mary Sue" and she'll never lose, she was able to use a lightsaber with no training...
Yeah, that's been an enduring complaint about Rey which even some of my friends have pointed out. I really don't consider her a Mary Sue and I think her various escapades with the dark side prove that, which is why her turning dark in TROS isn't a complete heel turn as may be expected. It's important to note that when she first duels Kylo at the end of TFA, he's been gravely injured by Chewbacca's bowcaster. That's why he keeps clutching his side and is in great pain. If you watch Rey closely in the battle, her fight moves are not polished but raw, unpracticed blows. It's her hate for Kylo fueling her for killing Han and injuring Finn. Meanwhile, Kylo already feels a connection to Rey and doesn't want to hurt her so he's holding back unlike her.

TLJ novelization also explained that when Kylo interrogated Rey in TFA and reached into her mind, she was able to "download" his vast skills with the Force and a lightsaber because of the bond that was created between them. It should also be noted that in trailer footage for TROS, we see Rey training still and Luke's voiceover remarks mention something along the lines of her training being now complete and since the setting of the film is 1 year after TLJ, we know she's been training all throughout that gap.
blackcauldron85 wrote: Do directors have absolute say/no one can tell them "No?" Because weren't Lord & Miller fired over Solo? I mean, did Kathleen Kennedy believe that Rian Johnson wasn't doing a good job on TLJ, did she think that some of the stuff he was doing would never be revisited?
No, directors, at least at Lucasfilm, don't have that power. Hence why Lord & Miller were fired, as you said, because their vision was not the same as Kathleen Kennedy's for Solo. If Kennedy had felt that Rian Johnson was straying from what she felt was the good of the company, he would have been replaced but clearly that didn't happen. In fact, they liked him enough to give him his own trilogy.

It should also be noted that out of the four films so far, TLJ had the least amount of production trouble and was considered smooth sailing overall by the cast and crew. TFA was supposed to be released in 2016 as per Kennedy's plan but Bob Iger wanted to capitalize on the $4 billion buyout of Star Wars ASAP so he pushed the release date back to 2015. Rogue One had extensive reshoots because apparently what was considered the finished screenplay just wasn't very good and the earlier film was radically different (I think 40% of the film was reshot). And you know about what happened with Solo. So TLJ seems to be the only film (besides TROS now) that never suffered from production problems. That's also why if you look at the Art book for the film, it pretty much all made it onto screen unlike TFA art book.
blackcauldron85 wrote: But Kylo could've been lying to her, right?
A lot of people have said Kylo lied to Rey because he wanted to make her feel insecure enough to join his side, as if nobody would love her besides him. However, we know this is not the full story and TROS will expand on it, revealing new layers of Rey's origin.
blackcauldron85 wrote: Oh boy, you keep jogging my memory about things the hubby complains about. His #1 fandom is video games- huge gamer, and did he ever complain about EA's (?) treatment of this game!!
Lol, yeah, I had many friends boycott EA for this game amongst other things they did.
blackcauldron85 wrote: We watched a YouTube video saying how much the toys didn't sell, and that's what hubby thinks now, too...
Would it happen to be this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFqsiuP ... u.be&t=352
Because this thread does a pretty good job of poking holes at that.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/is-it- ... ell.16788/
blackcauldron85 wrote: Wow, I didn't know *any* of that!!! Some exciting things!!!!!!!!!! So totally Kylo *potentially* lied to Rey about her parents...did he not want her distracted by it or something?

My biggest question for TRoS: Will there be Porgs? I am obsessed, I collect them, and I just want to see more of them!

*This* is why I come to the forum, for huge, thought-out discussions like this one! You two have got me out of bed early two days in a row- I have learned a lot from both of you, so thank you!!!
It's possible he didn't even outright lie as much as withhold information. Or perhaps everything he said was the truth but he doesn't know as much as he should about the situation.

I'm curious about the Porgs too. I don't think we'll return to Ahch-To, but maybe there will still be some following Chewie around. I haven't heard anything about them though so maybe they have short lifespans.

Yeah, this has been some really fun and interesting discussions with the both of you!! Especially since there isn't much Star Wars talk on this forum. I only browse Jedi Council Forums but haven't bothered to make an account there, so it's nice to have an outlet to talk about Star Wars.
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blackcauldron85
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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^ The forum thread you linked to:
The most perplexing thing to me is why Disney is pushing BB-9E so hard. It showed up in TLJ for a grand total of 5 mins and yet Disney are pushing BB-9E merchandise almost as much as BB-8.
BB-9E was actually going to be in the film more at one point too. Johnson mentioned a scene with BB-8 was cut. They work on the merchandise pretty early.
I remember being so disappointed that BB-9E wasn't in it much, since he really was being advertised/sold...

And lol that it took people that long to realize that pic by the OP was taken from that YouTube video!
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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blackcauldron85 wrote: I remember being so disappointed that BB-9E wasn't in it much, since he really was being advertised/sold...

And lol that it took people that long to realize that pic by the OP was taken from that YouTube video!
Yeah, he was really used in the marketing a lot so I expected more of him. But then again, this is typical of Star Wars if you look at Boba Fett and Captain Phasma. Even Darth Maul in Episode I, barely has any screentime, let alone any substantial lines of dialogue.

Lol, I know.

BTW, I found some more links that you and your husband might find interesting about all the Star Wars controversy. I'm posting them in TLJ thread since they're more relevant there.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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This looks so, so good!! I have such high hopes.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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The first episode is awesome!!! I'm very impressed. My hubby liked it; he has a little more faith in Star Wars again! Very excited to see more episodes. And I love the Droid!!
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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I'm glad the IG droid will be back in future episodes. The twist was a real shock. I should have realized it since we knew that a baby would be involved and that this series would finally explain the mystery of Yoda's species.
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Re: Star Wars: The Mandalorian

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^ I had avoided spoilers, so I had no idea! Very pleasantly surprised! Hubby had read it and kept saying, Do you want to know what happens?! And I'm like Noooo!
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