Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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JeanGreyForever
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by JeanGreyForever »

DisneyJedi wrote:Let’s face it. The ST haters are total brats and hypocrites. They complain about The Force Awakens being a rehash of A New Hope, yet when The Last Jedi goes in a different direction story wise, they gripe about that. They hate Rose as a character? Lucasfilm decides to make her role smaller in The Rise of Skywalker. And guess what? The ST haters whine about THAT! Make up your damn mind, people!

Anyways, I’ll be honest, I know Eddie Redmayne is an excellent actor, but I don’t think I could see him playing a dark and brooding character like Kylo Ren. Eddie comes off as more awkward and charming, which adds to his lovable performances and makes his acting seem a bit more natural. It’s part of why his acting in movies like Les Miserables and the Fantastic Beasts films come off as natural.
Yeah, I agree with farerb, the Rose haters are not the ones angry about her limited role in TROS. #RoseTicoDeservedBetter and #WheresRose were both trending because of her fans, which also goes to show that despite what the haters claim (that she's one of the most hated characters and people only like her because of identity politics), she clearly has a strong fanbase. I haven't seen Poe or Finn trend ever and nobody really seems to care for them and rightfully so. Poe at least got a lot of praise in this recent film which seemed to win him over some more fans and he's had a successful comic book series or two, so I'll give him that.

https://time.com/5760565/ben-solo-shrug-challenge/
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/248801 ... hing-moves
Meanwhile Ben Solo has created two viral challenges (the Ben Swolo challenge for TLJ and the Ben Solo challenge for TROS) that both heavily trended. #BenSoloDeservesBetter or #bringbackbensolo have both been regularly trending in foreign countries like Italy and other European countries. Interestingly enough, the film isn't doing well in Italy so wonder if there's any correlation there.
https://twitter.com/Allepanda1/status/1 ... 0761083909

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/star-wars ... med-forces
Fans raised more than $75,000 for Adam Driver's foundation to commemorate their love for Ben Solo.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/wzfph-thankyoudaisyridley
BTW, Daisy Ridley also has a foundation that fans are donating to but it hasn't gained as much traction as Adam Driver's yet.

As far Eddie, he's a really good actor but I don't know if Kylo Ren was a role suited for him. I'm glad Kathleen Kennedy pushed Adam instead. I would like to see Eddie in a Star Wars film one day, perhaps when Fantastic Beasts is over.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

JeanGreyForever wrote:I haven't heard anything like that about Vader only being in one film but I do know the original SW film went through many variations and drafts so that could be possible.
I don't see the issue with the Ewoks and like GL said, SW was always meant for kids.

I haven't read the Marvel comics from the 70s/80s but they seem pretty dated tbh.

GL sold SW to Disney because he was sick of being told that he had destroyed people's childhoods and he even said that his plans for the ST would not have been liked by the fans so he knew what the public reaction would be.

He didn't appear as a force ghost for a reason at the end. If Ben was meant to be one, they would have made him show up as one which tells me that they left it ambiguous on purpose to be able to bring him back one day.

I'm assuming there are rules about the balance of the Force and all and force ghosts will only materialize in the real world for a brief period of time because they are beyond the world of the living.

I blame Disney for going by toxic fans and clickbait articles to shape their films. If the PT got too much flack for too much politics, exposition, and CGI, they went in the opposite end for TFA (although I think that worked for the better). When accused of making a remake of ANH, they decided to go with a completely new and subversive story which was TLJ. The toxic amounts of backlash to that made them decide to return to a derivative crowd-pleaser meant to cater to all the haters' complaints (a supposed Lucasfilm inside source said that Rose was purposefully sidelined because of this and they even have some sort of formula that tells them how to make the most crowd-pleasing movie which unfortunately didn't include Rose). Ironically this backfired by making all the fans of TLJ hate on TROS and some ST haters were never going to be won over in the first place.

As far Eddie, he's a really good actor but I don't know if Kylo Ren was a role suited for him. I'm glad Kathleen Kennedy pushed Adam instead. I would like to see Eddie in a Star Wars film one day, perhaps when Fantastic Beasts is over.
I think it was mentioned in a documentary that Darth Vader was only meant to be used once. The DVD is probably still around somehwere, so if I find it I can always try to check it out.

Star Wars may have been originally meant for kids, but a lot of the fans don't see it that way. And one sci-fi writer meant that in a space opera trilogy each new movie has be on a larger scale than the previous one.

Can't say I think the old Marvel comics feel dated myself. After all, they are set in the same Star Wars universe as the original trilogy. They are dated themselves, not just because of when they were made, but also because much of them are based on science fiction from the 30s in the first place. "A long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away". Star Wars have always been a little old fashioned. Rogue One is actually the movie that feels most modern in the series, probably because of the extended use of IT-technology.
One thing that I consider as being a thing of the past is the habit of blowing up planets. For the future, I wouldn't mind if they decided to stop destroying planets in Star Wars. We are not just talking about a base of the resistance, but a whole ecosystem with a unique evolutionary past and countless species.

And like I said; I wouldn't mind seeing Lucas' ideas on the big screen, as long as it was non-canon or in a movie outside the Star Wars universe. I'm guessting the reason why he think people would hate it is because they would see it as a retconning of Star Wars, not the ideas themselves.

I assumed that when the physical body disappeared into nothing once a jedi died, it meant they became a force ghost. And I would liked to know what rules a force ghost has to follow. Which would require writers that knows what they are doing. Then one could use them within the limits defined by the rules.

Disney should remember that it is not necessarily those whole complain the loudest, or who get the most attention, that represents the majority of the fans. If they try too hard to please everybody, they could end up pleasing practically nobody. (There are probably many fans that have complained about Chewie never recieved a medal, so they decided to finally give him one in this movie.)
Pixar once said they tried to make movies they would have liked to see themselves. That sounds like a good approach for the makers of Star Wars as well. Or at least use their own judgement instead of paying too much attention to complaints that have turned into internet memes.

As most are aware, Eddie Redmayne has already played the main villain in Jupiter Ascending, another space opera movie.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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Do you mean The Empire of Dreams documentary that was part of the OT DVD box set? I watched that recently so it might have been said but I don't specifically remember. I don't go by much of what George Lucas says because he also claims things like Vader was always meant to be Luke's father or Luke and Leia were always meant to be siblings.

I find it hypocritical of fans who claim SW should not cater towards children because most of them were children themselves when they were first exposed to SW and fell in love with it. They like to claim it as their own and not let new generations make their own memories with it. I've heard a lot of criticism that TROS basically abandoned the young generation who looks up to Rey and Kylo Ren and opted to instead cater to the generation who grew up with the OT.

Something like Jaxxon the green rabbit seems incredibly dated if not outright infamous. However, there were some stories I've heard a lot of praise for. I think Chris Claremont (of Uncanny X-Men fame) wrote a flashback story featuring Ben Kenobi which was heavily praised and I always liked Lumiya myself and wanted Star Wars to incorporate her to create a new female villainess onscreen. I think Death Star technology is considered the equivalent of nuclear technology in SW. I don't think there are any plans for films set in the far future after TROS and all the rumored films are supposed to take place hundreds or thousands of years before the main saga so I doubt we'll see any planet killer stuff for a while.

Some of Lucas' ideas were incorporated in these films like Rey as a female protagonist, Luke exiling himself, Luke training Leia as a Jedi, etc. TFA and TLJ are heavily influenced by some of his early drafts even if the execution is not 100% the same. I think GL was more peeved about how they brought back the Empire in the form of the First Order and basically kept the same designs, although I don't have an issue with that. Most of our military craft and ships and stuff look pretty similar now as to what they were about 30 or so years ago. And the same held true for hundreds of years in medieval Europe or even the Renaissance up until the Industrial Revolution.

Usually a physical body fading away means becoming a force ghost. However, someone like Qui-Gon Jinn was able to become one even after he died and his body was cremated. Ben also fades away on Exegol in an underground chamber that was supposedly located above a vergence in the Force that could lead to The World Between the Worlds. His lack of a force ghost at the end seems to be a very deliberate decision that has bewildered most viewers.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/rian- ... 202197921/
This reminds me of Rian Johnson who recently said that the worst mistake while making a movie is giving the fans exactly what they want. He said this during TLJ as well when Mark Hamill had issues with Luke's portrayal and Mark eventually came around and realized RJ was right.

Yeah, I remember people gave Eddie Redmayne a lot of flack for his portrayal of a villain in that film. He even won the Razzie and he's openly spoken about regretting that performance.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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This movie is now tied with The Phantom Menace as the worst reviewed Star Wars movie on Rotten Tomatoes. What do any of you think of that?
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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JeanGreyForever wrote:Do you mean The Empire of Dreams documentary that was part of the OT DVD box set? I watched that recently so it might have been said but I don't specifically remember. I don't go by much of what George Lucas says because he also claims things like Vader was always meant to be Luke's father or Luke and Leia were always meant to be siblings.

I find it hypocritical of fans who claim SW should not cater towards children because most of them were children themselves when they were first exposed to SW and fell in love with it. They like to claim it as their own and not let new generations make their own memories with it. I've heard a lot of criticism that TROS basically abandoned the young generation who looks up to Rey and Kylo Ren and opted to instead cater to the generation who grew up with the OT.

Something like Jaxxon the green rabbit seems incredibly dated if not outright infamous. However, there were some stories I've heard a lot of praise for. I think Chris Claremont (of Uncanny X-Men fame) wrote a flashback story featuring Ben Kenobi which was heavily praised and I always liked Lumiya myself and wanted Star Wars to incorporate her to create a new female villainess onscreen. I think Death Star technology is considered the equivalent of nuclear technology in SW. I don't think there are any plans for films set in the far future after TROS and all the rumored films are supposed to take place hundreds or thousands of years before the main saga so I doubt we'll see any planet killer stuff for a while.

Usually a physical body fading away means becoming a force ghost. However, someone like Qui-Gon Jinn was able to become one even after he died and his body was cremated. Ben also fades away on Exegol in an underground chamber that was supposedly located above a vergence in the Force that could lead to The World Between the Worlds. His lack of a force ghost at the end seems to be a very deliberate decision that has bewildered most viewers.
Don't remember the name of the documentary, but it was not a part of any box set.

Slightly off topic, but there is much of the same gatekeeping mentality in the comic industry as well. The comics that so many grew up with are portrayed as being "just for kids" these days, and today many of them are written for an older target group, which is perhaps one of the main reason why Marvel and DC are struggling. I know that if the "mature" versions of the comics I grew up with were the only ones available when I was a kid, I would never have bothered to start reading them in the first place.

Never read any issues with Jaxxon in Marvel's Star Wars, but considering it was a monthly comic that ran for nine years, there is a lot of material available, much that would not have been seen as dated if it was used as inspiration.

The idea that all Star Wars movies from now on are supposed to be set long before the events we have witnessed so far sounds very restrictive. There could be other stories told that happened more or less simultaneously with the already existing storylines, but otherwise completely unrelated to them. Or thousand of years into the future. Going back in time and then insisting on staying there is something I hope they will reconsider.

About force ghosts; Darth Vader's body stayed intact as well, and was later burned. And yet he became a force ghost. Rey was dead for at least some minutes, and her body did as already mentioned not fade away.
Hardbackyoyo wrote:This movie is now tied with The Phantom Menace as the worst reviewed Star Wars movie on Rotten Tomatoes. What do any of you think of that?
I have actually never cared the slightest about what Rotten Tomatoes have to say about a movie. The only thing that bothers me is that so many others consider it as some sort of authority, and therefore could have enough influence to affect both box office and future movies.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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Theres a lot to consider when looking at the RT score. Phantom menace was rated low mostly because aside from being very political in its plot, it also was riding off hype of the original trilogy, plus it had a marketing machine behind it I don't think we'll ever see the likes of again. It was never going to live up to the hype.

Rise of Skywalker scoring low kinda baffles me, if it indeed scored lower than the Last Jedi. Maybe critics were mostly taking out their frustration on it coming off from that.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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John Boyega is trending again on Twitter after posting a video on Instagram taunting Reylo fans. I haven't watched the sequel trilogy so I don't have an opinion on Reylo but his behavior is incredibly unprofessional, troll-ish, and immature. I hadn't pegged him for such an attention-seeker. I didn't believe he would keep stirring up the hornet's nest after his last outburst. His vulgar and sexist comments about Rey and calling people idiots were bad enough but you'd think he at least got it out of his system and came to his senses by now. This is an indication of a complete lack of self-awareness and a massive ego. The worst thing about this situation is that the majority of people on Twitter are defending him, claiming this is his way of standing up to himself after being attacked by racists who hated him for getting in the way of their ship. Even if that's the case, he could have dealt with that in a civil and gracious way. What he's doing is exactly the opposite.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by JeanGreyForever »

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:Do you mean The Empire of Dreams documentary that was part of the OT DVD box set? I watched that recently so it might have been said but I don't specifically remember. I don't go by much of what George Lucas says because he also claims things like Vader was always meant to be Luke's father or Luke and Leia were always meant to be siblings.

I find it hypocritical of fans who claim SW should not cater towards children because most of them were children themselves when they were first exposed to SW and fell in love with it. They like to claim it as their own and not let new generations make their own memories with it. I've heard a lot of criticism that TROS basically abandoned the young generation who looks up to Rey and Kylo Ren and opted to instead cater to the generation who grew up with the OT.

Something like Jaxxon the green rabbit seems incredibly dated if not outright infamous. However, there were some stories I've heard a lot of praise for. I think Chris Claremont (of Uncanny X-Men fame) wrote a flashback story featuring Ben Kenobi which was heavily praised and I always liked Lumiya myself and wanted Star Wars to incorporate her to create a new female villainess onscreen. I think Death Star technology is considered the equivalent of nuclear technology in SW. I don't think there are any plans for films set in the far future after TROS and all the rumored films are supposed to take place hundreds or thousands of years before the main saga so I doubt we'll see any planet killer stuff for a while.

Usually a physical body fading away means becoming a force ghost. However, someone like Qui-Gon Jinn was able to become one even after he died and his body was cremated. Ben also fades away on Exegol in an underground chamber that was supposedly located above a vergence in the Force that could lead to The World Between the Worlds. His lack of a force ghost at the end seems to be a very deliberate decision that has bewildered most viewers.
Don't remember the name of the documentary, but it was not a part of any box set.

Slightly off topic, but there is much of the same gatekeeping mentality in the comic industry as well. The comics that so many grew up with are portrayed as being "just for kids" these days, and today many of them are written for an older target group, which is perhaps one of the main reason why Marvel and DC are struggling. I know that if the "mature" versions of the comics I grew up with were the only ones available when I was a kid, I would never have bothered to start reading them in the first place.

Never read any issues with Jaxxon in Marvel's Star Wars, but considering it was a monthly comic that ran for nine years, there is a lot of material available, much that would not have been seen as dated if it was used as inspiration.

The idea that all Star Wars movies from now on are supposed to be set long before the events we have witnessed so far sounds very restrictive. There could be other stories told that happened more or less simultaneously with the already existing storylines, but otherwise completely unrelated to them. Or thousand of years into the future. Going back in time and then insisting on staying there is something I hope they will reconsider.

About force ghosts; Darth Vader's body stayed intact as well, and was later burned. And yet he became a force ghost. Rey was dead for at least some minutes, and her body did as already mentioned not fade away.
Oh ok, must be a different one.

Honestly, I feel like it's the opposite. Most of the current comics are just trying to remake the classic stories of the 70s and 80s, at least that's the case for Marvel. They're really leaning into nostalgia and refusing to make new stories which is what so many comic fans are complaining about. The current X-Men comics are basically repackaging the 90s which wasn't even considered a very strong era in the first place.

I guess SW is already pretty futuristic and advanced so it would be difficult to set a story thousands of years in the future while making it seem like it built upon the technology of the older films. And setting something in the same era seems like a no-no because they don't want to do anything that can involve the new characters right now.

Also Leia also doesn't fade away immediately after she dies. She fades away at the end of the film when Ben dies and fades away.
Kyle wrote:Theres a lot to consider when looking at the RT score. Phantom menace was rated low mostly because aside from being very political in its plot, it also was riding off hype of the original trilogy, plus it had a marketing machine behind it I don't think we'll ever see the likes of again. It was never going to live up to the hype.

Rise of Skywalker scoring low kinda baffles me, if it indeed scored lower than the Last Jedi. Maybe critics were mostly taking out their frustration on it coming off from that.
Most critics were upset because they loved TLJ and this film seems like the exact opposite especially on how much it backtracked on. Also the editing of the film is super shoddy and you can tell this is not a well-made film. So many inconsistencies are being reported and when the film's own editor is admitting that the film wasn't complete and if you shut off your brains, you can enjoy it, you know something is up.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by JeanGreyForever »

Sotiris wrote:John Boyega is trending again on Twitter after posting a video on Instagram taunting Reylo fans. I haven't watched the sequel trilogy so I don't have an opinion on Reylo but his behavior is incredibly unprofessional, troll-ish, and immature. I hadn't pegged him for such an attention-seeker. I didn't believe he would keep stirring up the hornet's nest after his last outburst. His vulgar and sexist comments about Rey and calling people idiots were bad enough but you'd think he at least got it out of his system and came to his senses by now. This is an indication of a complete lack of self-awareness and a massive ego. The worst thing about this situation is that the majority of people on Twitter are defending him, claiming this is his way of standing up to himself after being attacked by racists who hated him for getting in the way of their ship. Even if that's the case, he could have dealt with that in a civil and gracious way. What he's doing is exactly the opposite.
Ironically enough all those comments in his video are telling him how disrespectful his post was towards women and how disappointed they are in him. Not a single comment in that video is trashing him for his race. He's such a sickening man honestly and he's treated Disney so badly now that he's no longer on their paycheck (even though they made his career) that I hope Hollywood will be done with him.

Also some context about the video. The Ben Solo Challenge has been trending where fans act out a scene from the film that has gone viral. Joonas Suotamo, the current actor for Chewbacca, said he would do the Ben Solo Challenge himself if $75,000 was raised for Adam Driver's foundation and he also nominated John, presumably to defuse the earlier incident and raise some goodwill and also likely because John is the only prominent SW actor on Twitter (the rest are quite sane and wise since they have no social media). John never responded and yesterday, the day when Joonas did the Ben Solo Challenge and got it trending, was coincidentally when John posted that stupid video which clearly took hours if not days of work to edit and make. He's just jealous and pissed that Adam Driver was the leading hero of this trilogy, the romantic interest to Daisy Ridley's Rey, and took home all the accolades from critics and fans, not to mention that Adam just won Best Actor of the Decade. John can't attack Adam so he vents his frustrations about his fans instead. If he was really upset about the racism he experienced when he was initially cast, he would post videos of those comments instead, not to mention he didn't utter a word when Kelly Marie Tran was being bullied.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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But... wasn’t Ben/Kylo the villain up until the halfway point in TROS? :?
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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DisneyJedi wrote:But... wasn’t Ben/Kylo the villain up until the halfway point in TROS? :?
What does that have to do with anything? Rian Johnson said that Rey and Ben were two halves of one protagonist and concept art from TFA and TLJ confirms this with the Dyad/Prime Jedi imagery that became canon in TROS. Disney submitted Adam as Lead Actor for TROS, while Oscar and John were submitted under the categories of Supporting Actors. In the credits, he was always credited first out of the new cast, after Mark, Carrie, and Harrison. He was even credited before Daisy.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

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https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/ ... _draft_of/
So we have Colin Trevorrow's initial draft for Episode IX summarized in this Reddit thread and video. Full summary below. This was written right before Carrie Fisher passed away so in an alternate universe, where we hadn't lost her, this may very well have been the movie we would have gotten. And let's just say that even the biggest detractors of TROS will thank the lucky stars that we got JJ onboard after all because this was absolutely terrible.

I'm really curious to hear your thoughts Farerb since I know you didn't like TROS, and this draft admittedly enough follows up on some stuff in TLJ unlike TROS (like Rey being a nobody), however that doesn't stop it from butchering the story even more so I want to know if you liked it or not.
CRAWL:

The iron grip of the FIRST ORDER has spread to the farthest reaches of the galaxy. Only a few scattered planets remain unoccupied. Traitorous acts are punishable by death.

Determined to suffocate a growing unrest, Supreme Leader KYLO REN has silenced all communication between neighboring systems.

Led by GENERAL LEIA ORGANA, the Resistance has planned a secret mission to prevent their annihilation and forge a path to freedom...

Opens at the Kuat Shipyards (man on a mission-style)

BB-8 and Rose Tico (allegedly a key character in script) are infiltrating Kuat Moon where First Order build their ships (workers are oppressed). There is an orbital ring and moon below it. Finn and Poe are there. No R2/3PO. Rey arrives.

The plan: Send explosive into the power shaft that delivers raw ore into the ring.

Plan goes wrong. (RBM loves dialogue at this moment.) First Order is able to contain blast. Admiral Vaughn says Resistance tactics are "pitful."

Rey disguised as a Tusken Raider is revealed to have created her own weapon (a double-blade lightsaber hybrid of her staff and Luke's cracked saber).

They battle and Poe, Finn, Rose, Rey, and BB-8 STEAL A STAR DESTROYER (Eclipse-class) and escape.

The Knife 9 a ship containing the Knights of Ren arrives a Kuat. Ataska (?) Ren kills Admiral Vaughn for his failure.

CUT TO: CORUSCANT. No longer a vibrant city. "The new structures are built atop the art deco structure of the old republic." Occupied by the First Order now (they have a citadel/palace there). Citizens are scavengers now. Hux is now CHANCELLOR HUX and is addressing Bisc Kova (traitor who helped Resist. steal Star Destroyer.) Kova is executed with a light blade guillotine.

Hux and Commander Selleck have a meeting with several alien war lords (ode to ANH imperial council scene). First Order has allies. They are aware of Rey being the last Jedi. Council wants to know WHERE IS KYLO REN? He is missing. Hux only knows he has gone searching for something of great power.

CUT TO: MUSTAFAR. Kylo Ren is alone, except for a Darth Maul-esque droid. He has stubble indicating search has been for a long time. Ren is being HAUNTED by Luke's force ghost.

Luke: "This is where the dark path leads; an empty tomb." Kylo (retort): "Where did your path lead?"

Luke is trying to convince him to go back to Leia. Kylo: "I'm going to be more powerful than any Jedi...even you."

In Vader's Temple, Kylo finds a Sith Holocron which reveals a hologram of Palpatine. Recording is for Vader. Palpatine has a contingency for Vader if Luke kills him. Vader is to take Luke to the Remnicore (?) System to see TOR VALUM, Master of Sith/Palpatine's Teacher.

After scanning Kylo, the Holocron explodes and releases red lighting which burns Kylo, who screams.

CUT TO: RESISTANCE BASE on KOR-ALAF (?). Leia is introduced as she feels what's happening to Ben. Chewbacca and Lt. Connix tell Leia that the Kuat team is back. They're shocked to see a Star Destroyer (which is landed onto the planet). Funny moment w/ Rey using Mind Trick on First Order officers who were still on the ship.

Rey confides in Finn that she doesn't feel like she has what it takes to be a Jedi and can't live up to everyone's expectations. Finn asks her if she still senses Kylo. Rey confesses she's been having nightmares. Finn asks if it's Kylo. Rey says she can't explain their connection.

Finn: "You have to shut him out. He can't change. It's too late." Rey: "It's never to late to change. You taught me that Finn."

Resistance realizes that the Star Destroyer stills has most of it's weapons (tanks, TIEs, etc). Only missing piece is an army to use it.

Rey researching the Jedi texts from Anch-To discovers that under Coruscant Jedi Temple there is a communication system (called a FORCE BEACON) from the Old Republic that can send a signal to 50 planets. They plan on using it to get allies. First Order can't stop it, since it predates Imperial tech. Rey: "Hope is all we have left."

Force Ghost Luke appears as Rey trains. Luke is pushing Rey to get stronger in the Force, while he is pushing Kylo to let Ben out.

Kylo makes it back to Coruscant. Face is damaged. Mandalorian armor is smelted and is been applied to his face. Confronts Hux and belittles him, saying he doesn't need titles.

Rey to Luke as they train: "Balance? The dark suffocates the light, light extinguishes the dark. Over and over and over again. How is that balance in the force?"

Luke: "I know that anger. My father had it too.'

Rey: "So says my master and his master before him. A thousand masters so eager to tell us how to live."

Rest of exchange between Rey and Luke is basically Rey trying to back away from being a Jedi (she admits she is NO ONE) and Luke trying to convince her (he says the Force is speaking to her).

Back to Kylo. He and Hux continue to snipe at each other. Kylo says he's leaving again, but not before telling Hux the power he discovered will make destroying planets insignificant. Kylo's last order to Hux: "Find the Resistance, wipe them out, leave the girl to me."

TEAM A (Rose, Finn, R2, 3PO): Going to Coruscant to light the beacon.

TEAM B (Rey, Poe, Chewbacca): Going to a planet to find someone to help Rey figure out what she needs to do. (side: Yes, his descrp. is that vague)

Kylo is going to a Sith Planet/Remnicore. EDIT: Before he leaves Coruscant, he takes Vader's mask and says he understands Vader now. Kylo: "You allowed love to cloud your judgement" and he throws Vader's mask off of a balcony and it shatters.

Leia stays at the base overseeing the Resistance.

Before Rey leaves, she and Leia have an exchange were Rey says she believes there's still good in Kylo. Leia is skeptical, but Rey believes in her Jedi Training. Leia: "You're not like my father or my brother. You're new. Whatever happens, remember the force choose you Rey. You're story isn't written by anyone else."

RMB starts summarizing now:

First Order tracks down stolen Star Destroyer to Kor-Alaf. Resistance escapes.

TEAM A successfully infiltrates the Jedi Temple and turn on the beacon. Cut to different places around the galaxy receiving the signal (Bossk cameo). It is then cut off by the First Order. TEAM A then flee into the underbelly of Coruscant.

TEAM B are being pursued by the Knife 9 (Knights of Ren ship) and eventually reach the planet Bonadan.

Kylo reaches Remincore and confronts Tor Valum (7000 yrs old, alien of unknown origin, spindly, intense sinewy muscle -- very Lovecraftian). Kylo begins training with Valum. Ode to ESB Cave scene: Kylo fights Vader. Fight is brutal and Kylo loses.

Bonadan: Poe takes Rey to a Seer who can pull information out of memories. The Seer pulls a star chart out of Rey's mind from her visions w/ Kylo. Knights of Ren show up and fight Rey in a lightsaber battle. She defeats them and TEAM B escapes.

Both Rey and Kylo eventually get to MORTIS.

Leia asks Lando if he will organize the smugglers and fight the First Order.

Rose is captured and tortured by the First Order, but is able to escape.

Finn/R2/3PO start a citizens uprising on Coruscant around the First Order's Citadel/Palace.

Leia brings her forces to Coruscant to battle the FO. Massive space battle, ground battle (ROTJ-style you know the works lol). Chewie flies an X-Wing.

Rey and Kylo battle on Mortis, using force energy that can pull from each other. At some point is revealed Kylo killed Rey's parents at the behest of Snoke. Towards the end, Luke/Obi Wan/Yoda appear as Force Ghosts to save Ben, but are unsuccessful. Ben is "extinguished."

RMB seems to be at the end, so just for house keeping sake - Resistance won, First Order loses.

One final deet: Han Solo did appear in the script and does confront Kylo at some point.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by Farerb »

I don't know. It doesn't seem good, but I like that it actually follows up from TLJ.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by JeanGreyForever »

But only in the form of Rey Nobody and starting off with a double-bladed staff lightsaber (instead of ending with it like in TROS). Ben's character is completely butchered, Leia isn't given anything to do, and even the Luke stuff doesn't really work if you see below. Only Hux and Rose being major characters is something I really like.

I also really like the first act and how all the cast comes together including Rose who has a bigger part, but then again this version doesn't feature C-3PO in a central role it seems which is a shame. However, bringing the Resistance heroes together seems more organic than how TROS kept trying to highlight the trio and no one cared. I do like how Rey and Poe are split off from Finn and Rose but I know Colin Trevorrow planned on making Rey and Poe a couple, hence why he asked Rian Johnson to introduce the two at the end of TLJ.

The Knights of Ren have more of a role and seem deadlier which is nice. I like the return to Coruscant and how it's changed since we last saw it. I wonder if the Old Republic beacon was supposed to set up a potential plot point for future films. The signal to beckon Resistance allies seems really unnecessary though since the whole point of the ending of TLJ is that Luke's last stand on Crait inspires the entire galaxy throughout the one year gap. The Bossk cameo seems plain odd. However, Hux seems to have a bigger role which is nice since he's sidelined in TROS although I've heard he has a lot of deleted scenes. I like the idea of the final battle being on Coruscant, on the ground and in space above it, since that's reminiscent of the original draft for Return of the Jedi with the final battle over the Imperial homeworld. The crashed Star Destroyer on the Resistance Base which Rey lands also seems like a callback to the opening of Revenge of the Sith which also started with the Battle of Coruscant so it's a nice bookend.

Luke actually "haunting" Kylo is a nice callback to the end of TLJ but I've also heard some people say this breaks canon because light side ghosts can't visit dark side users. The rest of the Kylo stuff is absolutely terrible. He's supposed to be beyond Vader but he scars his face, dons Vader's mask (or a new weird mask that seems reminiscent of Doctor Doom), and has absolutely no redemption. It's weird how Rey claims there is light in him and Luke keeps trying to bring him back but Leia gives up on him completely and Kylo doesn't seem to have any feelings towards Rey here. Him dying as a villain doesn't work for me and what happened to this being Leia's movie and her reaching out to her son? Leia's role doesn't seem any bigger than what she got in TROS and she has no interaction with her son.

Palpatine may not be back but the idea that he had a true Sith master alive all this time is plain stupid, especially making him a Lovecraftian monster that's 7000 years old.

Way too many planets for my taste and not interested in Mortis, especially if Kylo still ends up dying and never becomes Ben again. Rey not being interested in him romantically but fighting to save the good in him seems odd since she has no real motivation then. He's not a family member, he's not a love interest, they have no Dyad force bond, so why does she root for him so much? No wonder Finn questions her behavior. I do like that Finn isn't force sensitive in this because that was shoehorned in TROS. Rose being tortured seems really unnecessary though and a bone to her haters.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by JeanGreyForever »

Some more details.
Poe was going to be flirting and hitting on Rey though out the movie with her shutting it down, lol.

Hux was going to attempt to use the force and even had a collection of lightsabers (WHAT???)

Towards the end Rey gets Neoed from Matrix Revolutions and fights with a blindfold.

And maybe I'm confused, but Rob was reading directly from the script and it does sound like Kylo gets redeemed, telling Rey her last name before fading away
.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by Farerb »

Yeah all the things you said about Ben and the Sith master are the ones I didn't like. I just wish Rian Johnson could have done Episode IX instead of both Colin and JJ.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by blackcauldron85 »

What JeanGreyForever quoted wrote:At some point is revealed Kylo killed Rey's parents at the behest of Snoke. Towards the end, Luke/Obi Wan/Yoda appear as Force Ghosts to save Ben, but are unsuccessful. Ben is "extinguished."
Holy crap on the parents killing-- that was unexpected. So, at one moment, did just everyone give up on Ben, or how was he extinguished, but Kylo remained alive (but then he died? I just have missed it- how?)?
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by JeanGreyForever »

farerb wrote:Yeah all the things you said about Ben and the Sith master are the ones I didn't like. I just wish Rian Johnson could have done Episode IX instead of both Colin and JJ.
Yeah that would have been ideal.
blackcauldron85 wrote:
What JeanGreyForever quoted wrote:At some point is revealed Kylo killed Rey's parents at the behest of Snoke. Towards the end, Luke/Obi Wan/Yoda appear as Force Ghosts to save Ben, but are unsuccessful. Ben is "extinguished."
Holy crap on the parents killing-- that was unexpected. So, at one moment, did just everyone give up on Ben, or how was he extinguished, but Kylo remained alive (but then he died? I just have missed it- how?)?
I haven't seen the video myself yet and apparently the person with the script has been doing super long videos about it with other people so I don't know all the specifics outside of the Reddit thread. I think the idea is that during the final battle, Rey does eventually reach Ben but only after he's dead. During his dying moments, he tells Rey she was right about him (sounds like a complete retread of ROTJ with Vader) and then tells Rey her last name.

I forgot to mention Kylo killing Rey's parents. That was so out of left field and completely unnecessary especially since he would be 16 then and training with Luke. Just plain bizarre.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

JeanGreyForever wrote:Honestly, I feel like it's the opposite. Most of the current comics are just trying to remake the classic stories of the 70s and 80s, at least that's the case for Marvel. They're really leaning into nostalgia and refusing to make new stories which is what so many comic fans are complaining about. The current X-Men comics are basically repackaging the 90s which wasn't even considered a very strong era in the first place.

I guess SW is already pretty futuristic and advanced so it would be difficult to set a story thousands of years in the future while making it seem like it built upon the technology of the older films. And setting something in the same era seems like a no-no because they don't want to do anything that can involve the new characters right now.
Hux was going to attempt to use the force and even had a collection of lightsabers (WHAT???)
.
Must admit that I haven't read the current comics. It's been a couple of years since I read any for the reasons I mentioned. Iron Man, X-Men (before the retconning and new Secret Wars) and other titles felt like they had nothing in common with the comics I grew up with, and that's not just nostalgia talking.

Star Wars is what has been called a "used future". And so there are probably so-called historical cycles involved. Sometimes we have what can be compared with the great depression, and war years, and a time of progress. And there are planets mostly isolated from the big events in the galaxy. Or different kind of political ideologies,. Unless we are talking about major breakthroughs like clone armies, genetically engineered individuals able to use the force such as Snoke, Death stars and starships with the same ability to blow up planets, and flying stormtroopers, I don't think there are that many technological differences between the present and the past in the Star Wars universe, except that at one point it looks a little newer.
In that regard a story taking place in the further past or the future shouldn't be that different, even if the future do opens up for further technological progress. But it's about the context. Seeing a movie you just know is set years later, possibly many generations, after the events in this movie, allow you to experience it differently if it is just happening in the past. Which is why I think we should not be restricted to past events from now on.
And stories happening in the same time era as this is not a problem as long as they don't interact. The story can be about something completely different than the empire, first order, jedis, siths or any known character. Technically, we already have a movie like that, about Ewoks, but something on a larger scale is also possible.

I would have liked to see Hux giving them a tour on the ship. "And these are my private quarters. Now, if you take a look at the wall to the left here, you'll notice my little lightsaber collection. I don't wanna brag or anything, but lately I've been dabbling some in force activities myself."
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Post by JeanGreyForever »

You're not missing out on anything in the current comics. It's just mindless event after event after summer and in a few months, all of that gets retconned by the next big event. The X-Men have had a big revamp recently although I don't know if it was necessarily for the better.

One of the complaints about The Knights of the Old Republic was that the galaxy looked and felt the exact same as it did in the George Lucas films. Whereas the comics, Tales of the Jedi, which chronicled the ancient Jedi-Sith wars actually felt like the galaxy had progressed since then. Even in the Skywalker Saga films, we see primitive planets compared to the cosmopolitan ones so I suppose you're right about that, but we know there was a time in the galaxy when there was no hyperspace and that revolutionized everything when it was introduced. The Sith would also be considered some ancient sect or religion by the time of The Phantom Menace since they hadn't existed for 1000 years or as was believed by the Jedi.

I'm not sure the Ewoks films are a great case since the few people who watched them tend to call them a laughingstock. I think Disney/LFL knows that even with spinoff films like Rogue One and Solo, they're generally going to be more well-received when they're somewhat interconnected to the main characters and stories that audiences are familiar with and love. The Mandalorian is another great example of this with references to the New Republic, the Empire, IG-88, and of course, Baby Yoda himself. So setting a film after TROS wouldn't be an issue but not explaining the state of the galaxy like what happened to the Resistance/Republic would be a major issue and it seemed Disney/LFL was already reluctant to answer that by the end of TROS.

The Hux stuff btw came from an early draft of the film with a different director, not a deleted concept from the TROS we ended up getting.
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We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey
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