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I have been wondering this for quite a while ever since Frozen came out that there have been so many lyricists that arrived to Disney after the tragic death of Disney legend Howard Ashman who tried to do what he had done with different results. I'm curious to know which lyricist you think came pretty darn close to having just a small fraction of the memorable, lyrical genius of Ashman's work on The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

Excellent topic, op!

My favorite is Stephen. I may be biased due to him having worked on some prime movies of my childhood, but I'll prefer him not only due to his sophistication, but to his overall brilliance. He was on the most serious Disney films to date and managed to push Disney into a more adult, controversial direction, without being too explicit about it (heck, he was even more explicit on Disney than on The Prince of Egypt, which was meant to be explicit from the get-go, due to it trying to detract itself from Disney)

Apparently most of the users around here agrees on this, due to the votes he's receiving.

It was a tie for me between Glen and Stephen; though gave my vote to Glen Slater in the end.

And yes, great topic !

Atlantica wrote:It was a tie for me between Glen and Stephen; though gave my vote to Glen Slater in the end.

And yes, great topic !

Thanks.

For me it was quite hard to choose which one for a while, but I think Kristen Anderson-Lopez's work on both Winnie the Pooh and Frozen has been so witty, clever, and at times in the latter, heavy feels that while she hasn't written a Disney villain song yet (although "Love is an Open Door" can be argued as one), the songs she did write with her husband might stand the test of time.

Stephen Schwartz for sure. Newman and Slater's lyrics are generally bland, and that's especially true of the latter. I like the lyrics Rice provided for Aladdin and The Lion King, and Zippel's contribution to Hercules, but Schwartz just wins out due to his sophisticated and precise lyrics. Just Around the Riverbend, Colors of the Wind, Out There, and Heaven's Light/Hellfire remain some of my favorite songs ever, and that's mostly due to Schwartz's lyrics.

Is this only counting their Disney work? Because I think that Stephen Schwartz has done the best Disney stuff out of all of them, but I adore the Lopezes' comedic work on Avenue Q and The Book of Mormon. Meanwhile, Schwartz's standout work is more dramatic and poetic, so it's hard to compare. I also feel as though Schwartz's lyrical work in Enchanted (reminder that he did that as well) is sort of bland for what is supposed to be a comedic take on Disney musicals.

I decided to go with Schwartz anyways, because Hunchback has one of my favorite soundtracks of all time.

Tangled wrote:Is this only counting their Disney work? Because I think that Stephen Schwartz has done the best Disney stuff out of all of them, but I adore the Lopezes' comedic work on Avenue Q and The Book of Mormon. Meanwhile, Schwartz's standout work is more dramatic and poetic, so it's hard to compare. I also feel as though Schwartz's lyrical work in Enchanted (reminder that he did that as well) is sort of bland for what is supposed to be a comedic take on Disney musicals.

I decided to go with Schwartz anyways, because Hunchback has one of my favorite soundtracks of all time.

Yes just the Disney work and BTW Kristen Anderson-Lopez didn't work on Avenue Q or Book of Mormon, her husband was involved with those two but there is a musical that both Robert and Kristen are working on at the La Jolla Playhouse called Up Here which is ironically about a man and a woman meeting each other and the majority of the action takes place in his head with his emotions. Remind you all of something?

My vote goes to Tim Rice. He wrote "A Whole New World", which is one of the best Disney songs ever made.

Stephen Schwartz, then Lopez. After that, Tim Rice. Then Glenn Slater...

Disney's Divinity wrote:Stephen Schwartz, then Lopez. After that, Tim Rice. Then Glenn Slater...

That's an interesting ranking Divinity, how do you feel about Schwartz and Lopez's lyric writing? Just wondering.

These are obviously not the only lyricists post-Ashman but if I were to rank the ones listed, it would be like this:

Stephen Schwartz
Tim Rice
David Zippel
Glenn Slater
Randy Newman
Kristen Anderson-Lopez

I know, they are the lyricists for the Disney Animated Canon after Ashman's tragic death. I'm sure there were tons of them.

Had to give it to Stephen Schwartz, as he is actually my favorite of the Disney song writers, including Howard Ashman. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, just that I prefer one a tad bit over the other.

This is us strictly talking about the animated features though.
While I love The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast, I feel like Pocahontas and Hunchback spoke more to me than the other two.
Hunchback will forever remain to be my favorite Disney movie and my favorite soundtrack (song wise).

I love part of your world,, and I still think that it's truly the ONE and only absolutely perfect Disney sequence. But sadly.. I love all of the songs of the hunchback soundtrack (minus A Guy Like You) more. I also like the scores of Pocahontas and Hunchback more than Mermaid and Beast.

Although... Most of his credibility went down the drain when he did Enchanted. Absolutely horrible soundtrack!

My Ranking:
This was a hard list to come up with...

Stephen Schwartz
Tim Rice: obvious reasons lol Stand Out song writing: A Whole new World/Prince Ali

David Zippel: Just listen to the Hercules soundtrack. Phenomenal song writing! Would actually battle it out for second place with Tim Rice. Stand out song writing: Zero to Hero!

Kristen Anderson-Lopez: While I loved some of the songs, I don't think they'll stand the test of time. I think there are some glaring problems with the lyrics and they are just too modern at parts. Some songs are also way too repetitive. My biggest problem lies with her Husband's orchestration of the songs. I think he does such a horrible job! Stand out song writing: Fixer-Upper.

Randy Newman: There's just something that isn't magnetizing about his songs. They're not bad, but every time they play while I'm driving, i find myself skipping his songs. I loved Friends on the Other Side but the speaking part in the middle ruins it for me. It's not as well done as Poor Unfortunate Souls. His stand out song is either Friends on the Other Side or Almost There.

Glenn Slater: Really dislike the lyrics of this song writer. I think the Music in tangled is mediocre at best and way way way too modern for it's own good. Every song lyrics in general have their ups and downs, but usually the other lyrics can save the song from the downs. However, Glenn Slater's good lyrics just simply can't elevate the horrible ones. Stand Out Song writing: Mother Knows Best Reprise.
Ironically, I love his tangled songs in Arabic because they stay away from being modern. It's a timeless language so it's hard to modernize movie dubs.

Interesting thoughts on them taei although Tim Rice didn't write the lyrics to "Prince Ali", that honor goes to Howard Ashman. I also don't think Robert Lopez orchestrated the songs that was Dave Metzger's job on Frozen to create the sounds of all the songs. I know what I'll say is a matter of my own opinion but while I will always have a high opinion on Stephen Schwartz's contributions to Disney, when I get older and older I have a stronger appreciation of Ashman's genius than I do for Schwartz; maybe it's the weird fact that unlike The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast's songs, I couldn't get into Pocahontas or Hunchback when I was younger at first and it took me a good long while to appreciate the lyric work that Schwartz did work hard on. Lopez on the other hand with her quick, witty, charming and times smart lyrics won me over with both her and her husband's contributions to Winnie the Pooh and most of all Frozen.

Seriously, when was the last that a song changed the way an animated film was going to be? Whenever I hear that story that Elsa was going to be the big villain and the songwriters were struggling to write her but couldn't find anything that worked. So when Kristen and Robert wrote "Let it Go", basically the movie found the identity and of Elsa herself, to be the beloved phenomenon that it became today.

Musical Master wrote:Interesting thoughts on them taei although Tim Rice didn't write the lyrics to "Prince Ali", that honor goes to Howard Ashman.

That's the main reason I rank Tim Rice a little bit lower than Lopez for now. I put him as high as I did because of "One Jump Ahead," "Circle of Life" and "CYFtL." I don't think the lyrics to "AWNW" are especially noteworthy? The melody and vocals are doing the heavy lifting, imo.

Stephen Schwartz has the best Disney catalogue (and non-Disney, too, tbh) of these, but I get what you mean about his sound standing apart from Ashman or Lopez. Everything with him goes for, I don't know, a regal, majestic quality that sometimes eclipses the characters' personalities somewhat. Not a bad thing for me, but I guess I can see how he might be harder to get into for some people?

Lopez isn't perfect, but I really enjoyed what was done on Frozen. Even "Fixer-Upper" and "Frozen Heart," the weakest of that film, don't bother me too much lyrically. "Fixer-Upper" is a combination of things that are annoying, not the lyrics specifically. "Love Is An Open Door" is brilliant. Even a few lyrics in "For the First Time in Forever," while a little ehh, work coming from a character like Anna. "Let It Go" could be called repetitive, but it works for Elsa trying to "un-learn" her old behavior and its definitely the highest point of the movie (even without the visuals). Although, I've never quite liked the first couple lines.

David Zippel is hard to judge for me. I love "ZtH" and "IWS(IiL)," but the lyrics don't really stand out to me as necessarily phenomenal like some of Schwartz, Lopez? Another case where the vocals/melodies are doing most of the work--especially on "Go the Distance," perhaps the weakest "I Want" song in a Disney movie even if I love the melody? Thinking again, I probably put him above Glenn Slater. I forgot the only film Slater worked on was Tangled--I'm thinking of "brush-a, brush-a, brush my hair" and "go on, get trampled by a rhino".... And I've always slightly disliked the way "MKB (reprise)" has "Give him this! Ha! This is why he's here!" It'd be nice if he found a way to use less vague words so it could work outside of the film.

If I ranked the Disney lyricists from top to bottom, it would be like this:

Kristen Anderson-Lopez
Stephen Schwartz
Tim Rice
David Zippel
Glenn Slater
Randy Newman

Oh, that's easy. Stephen Schwartz.

Stephen Schwartz wrote the lyrics to "Hellfire", so just for what is the greatest Disney villain song ever, that put him in the number 2 spot for me easy.

Here's a cute recent video of the Lopez's talking about their collaborations on Frozen and the upcoming Giants. I like the fact that they're such huge fans of the Sherman Brothers and of the Alan Menken/Howard Ashman team-up.

https://www.facebook.com/OhMyDisneyMusi ... 637901275/

Bumped because now Lin-Manuel Miranda has been added since Moana has come out. So in comparison to the others, what do you think of his lyric work?