DVDizzy Forum

I realize that lately I have not been good on my word of saying that I wasn't going to come back here, on account of some topics that I couldn't help sharing my thoughts on, only to get hooked on my usual rants on Disney and CGI again. But after careful consideration, I'd decided to make a proposal:

Should the state of hand-drawn animation in the animation industry ever improve in the future, and Disney decides to get over it's discrimination of the art form and be willing to return to doing hand-drawn animation again for good, then maybe I would be willing to open up to all these CG movies they've been doing, so long as they are no longer being a threat to hand-drawn, and take them in for what they are story-wise. But as far as them being computer animated goes, I may never see them as not being a "mistake" that they are CGI (like how Frozen couldn't be hand-drawn like they were wanting it to be), nor is it likely that I will ever like any of them more than Disney's hand-drawn films.

And even if Disney still wants to believe that they should be having any real business doing computer animation, I could live with it as long as hand-drawn animation is allowed to co-exist at the studio and is treated with equality, balance, and respect. The art of hand-drawn is not something to just be killed off or thrown away like it's old hat. It should be Disney's job, more than anyone else, to keep that art alive for all generations to know and appreciate.

But in the meantime, I am simply fed up with all things computer animated, and will not be watching or seeing any of it. Now that I finally have a copy of Princess and the Frog on Blu-Ray, I will be spending a lot more time watching that instead, along with preserving all the other old hand-drawn Disney Classics in my video collection. I will try to stay optimistic that things will get better for hand-drawn animation, but for now I don't trust the Disney studio OR CG movies.

That being said, I promise everyone on this forum a break from my ranting (one that I'm intending to keep this time), and should hand-drawn come back to Disney again like I said, then perhaps I will be more active here and we can finally have positive, happy discussions about Disney like we really should. But right now I've got very little to be positive about with the kind of directions Disney's been taking as a studio, even if the rest of you want to believe that all their current movies are something worth celebrating.

Anyway, that's where I'm going to stand with Disney and this forum for now, and that's where I'm leaving it.

hopefully someday a true visionary will come to the studio to bring back hand drawn in a way that pleases the powers that be...hopefully during our lifetime. If not at Disney then elsewhere.

in the meantime, focus on the things you like such as the classic 2d films, the shorts, the old tv shows, there lots of threads about those things here. And maybe even support the cgi films that at least try to think outside the box a bit, though I know those are few and far b/w. Or dont, you dont have to like CGI really, but dont let the fact that other people do, and that it is so popular affect you so much b/c there's not much 2d fans can do about the way culture reacts to things. Just avoid what triggers you and immerse yourself in what you love...

Thanks for the advice, unprincess.

It's kind of sad that having the internet at home has been both a blessing and a curse to me. It gives me easy access to all that old animation you talk about (and places like Amazon and eBay are how I've been buying all those older Disney movies, after all), but it also exposes me a lot to all the things I hate on a regular basis, and unfortunately, makes the online community an easy place to vent out all my hate for modern day animation through ranting about it and arguing with other fans over it. If there weren't certain things that I actually need the internet for in my life, I would just not have it at all if I don't want to be reminded of the world we live in today.

I also can't help but notice that nobody else has had a single thing to say to me about this besides you. Makes me think that they're just ignoring me on purpose cause they hate me and are sick of everything I talk about.

well this section of the forum isnt as visited as some of the others. I know I dont usually come here maybe one a month or even less. Maybe placing it in the Asperger's/Autism section would have been seen by more people since that thread is more visited.

I was gonna suggest you also check out the /co/ section of 4chan since there are a lot of threads there about animation and many pro-2d fans there and they welcome speaking your mind and harsh criticisms of the industry, but 4chan can also be...well kinda nasty....

If it's any consolation, we had The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water this year and that was (mostly) hand-drawn. Hand-drawn animation is not dead, it never was and especially at Disney. It's all about finding the right project.

2Disney4Ever lied to you all!

He's just back to cause more trouble again like he did before, with his nasty habits of constantly annoying everyone with his blind, unhealthy and irrational hatred of CG animation.

Admins, please ban that liar/nuisance at once!

disneyphilip wrote:2Disney4Ever lied to you all!

He's just back to cause more trouble again like he did before, with his nasty habits of constantly annoying everyone with his blind, unhealthy and irrational hatred of CG animation.

Admins, please ban that liar/nuisance at once!

You've got some nerve to accuse me of lying, disneyphilip.

Okay, so maybe it got me steamed to find out that Disney was making DuckTales be CGI, but I have had honest intentions to try and complain less here and not fight with anybody anymore over CGI. You on the other hand just seem bent on yelling about every single thing and wanting to make arguments over them, as well as always getting after me and getting in my business about everything I do or say.

Maybe it's you who should be banned right now and not me, cause you're being the more obvious nuisance around here.

2Disney4Ever wrote:I realize that lately I have not been good on my word of saying that I wasn't going to come back here, on account of some topics that I couldn't help sharing my thoughts on, only to get hooked on my usual rants on Disney and CGI again. But after careful consideration, I'd decided to make a proposal:

Should the state of hand-drawn animation in the animation industry ever improve in the future, and Disney decides to get over it's discrimination of the art form and be willing to return to doing hand-drawn animation again for good, then maybe I would be willing to open up to all these CG movies they've been doing, so long as they are no longer being a threat to hand-drawn, and take them in for what they are story-wise. But as far as them being computer animated goes, I may never see them as not being a "mistake" that they are CGI (like how Frozen couldn't be hand-drawn like they were wanting it to be), nor is it likely that I will ever like any of them more than Disney's hand-drawn films.

And even if Disney still wants to believe that they should be having any real business doing computer animation, I could live with it as long as hand-drawn animation is allowed to co-exist at the studio and is treated with equality, balance, and respect. The art of hand-drawn is not something to just be killed off or thrown away like it's old hat. It should be Disney's job, more than anyone else, to keep that art alive for all generations to know and appreciate.

But in the meantime, I am simply fed up with all things computer animated, and will not be watching or seeing any of it. Now that I finally have a copy of Princess and the Frog on Blu-Ray, I will be spending a lot more time watching that instead, along with preserving all the other old hand-drawn Disney Classics in my video collection. I will try to stay optimistic that things will get better for hand-drawn animation, but for now I don't trust the Disney studio OR CG movies.

That being said, I promise everyone on this forum a break from my ranting (one that I'm intending to keep this time), and should hand-drawn come back to Disney again like I said, then perhaps I will be more active here and we can finally have positive, happy discussions about Disney like we really should. But right now I've got very little to be positive about with the kind of directions Disney's been taking as a studio, even if the rest of you want to believe that all their current movies are something worth celebrating.

Anyway, that's where I'm going to stand with Disney and this forum for now, and that's where I'm leaving it.

If its not Disney, somebody else will do it. And if they make it "cool" again I assure you, Disney will be on that, having the kind of tradition and background they have.

But, as I said before, is easier to train somebody just to be an animator, than to be an amazing artist and painter, and be a good animator on top of that. its more expensive it requieres more time and they demand more money for that job, and they demand even more the ones that are really great.

Also if you think about it, its not as big as a limitation and is not as dated or as old as they want you to think. Black and white was used because they didn't know how to produce color in film. Same with sound in movies. 2D has sound, color, it can produce amazing images and it can make use of the computer, its not dated at all.

The weird stuff comes when you think that Toy Story and TLK premiered almost at the same time and they look amazing even today.

Same with Princess and the Frog and Up, they are both amazing movies with amazing looks. Its not about being a fairy tale, Frozen threw that conception away. Is about cost and benefit, now is getting cheaper and faster to make them 3d, but is not about "getting old" if it was that way, kids should have demanded 3d shows for a while now, but we are not getting that.

Also the technology in 2d is way better than in TLK and I refuse to think its that expensive, sure it will be a little bit more but its not that much more expensive and if they worked with it they should be able to reduce costs in some way. As bad as it sounds is studio bias and perception. 3D sells, 2d not because they had bad movies that didn't sell while in 3D we had really bad movies that sold decently. It's as simple as that, they don't care about the quality, is all about the money.

But, sooner or later we will have a 2D movie that will sell and turn heads around. My biggest fear around that is them realizing that they need to get the old guard (glenn Keane, Goldberg, Richard Williams etc.) to teach those great 2D techniques that they learned through the years and pass them to the new generations. If they don't do that, they will have to figure oll out themselves and the technique will not get better for who knows how many more years, or decades.

tweeb² wrote:
The weird stuff comes when you think that Toy Story and TLK premiered almost at the same time and they look amazing even today.

As much as I love Toy Story, I'm going to have to disagree that the film hold up visually. It looks like outdated CG animation, which is what it is. Thankfully the story and characters are compelling enough to hold one's interest. That I'd say is an important issue to bring up, I don't feel that CG necessarily holds up as well as hand drawn. It will certainly be interesting to see what the CG films of today look like in 25 years.

Anyway, 2Disney4Ever, I'm in a similar boat as you are. The loss of hand drawn animation is one of the big reasons why I find myself not caring about Disney as much as I used to. After many boughs of grumpiness, what I finally decided was that I needed a more positive outlet instead of being angry at how a cooperation handles it's business. That was the first realization, it hasn't been Walt's company for a long time, so who care what they do going forward? I don't.

The second thing is that I started to appreciate the 46 hand drawn films that have been produced, even the ones from that list I'm not as fond of. Third, I've really dived into the world of classic Disney TV Animation. I started up a DVD fan campaign that has lead to the release of various TV animation titles, I've interviewed for a podcast I started up a bunch of very talented people that were part of the production of these classic Disney TV Animation properties, and I've interacted with some amazing fans. It's really helped me gain some new perspectives on the art form and a few other things.

Lastly, and this is a big one, by not paying as much attention to Disney or in many cases, American animation today, I find myself looking at animation I never would have given a thought to look at a decade ago. There are some truly amazing non-Disney bits of US animation out there, as well as exceptional hand drawn animation being produced today in other countries. Hand drawn is not dead, it's just not necessarily an American art form anymore. Have you seen the trailer to Klaus by SPA Studios? Truly outstanding work. I'm very excited for the finished film.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. Hope they help.