DVDizzy Forum

Hey all. I wasn't really sure what to title this topic, Im really just thinking out loud here.

So, here's the thing, Ive been drawing for as long as I can remember. My long term goal would be to become an animator. Whether its Pixar Disney, some new upstart studio doesn't matter, if I can make a living doing anything creative that would be ideal.

but never mind that, that's still probably a long ways out. I'll be 25 this month and Ive never even had a real job. Still haven't advanced my education passed high school.

Back to drawing: I never considered myself that great when it comes to consistent expressive poses using the same characters. I can pack on detail sure and eventually get a solid enough drawing. But I look at the types of things I see in storyboards and such and realize I still lack in basic posing and story telling. I'm definitely no writer for one. I wish I were, because I sometimes have seeds of ideas, I just don't have the skill to flesh them out like I'd want. Telling stories is a skill I'd like to work on though, even if their not my own.

A year ago my mom and I wrote/illustrated a book dedicated to her father (who passed away in 2010). The book was a school assignment, she's going to be a teacher. I wont post it here in full because who knows, we might try to get it published at some point and have been advised not to just throw it up anywhere. I will link to my website though if you'd like to see the cover art and one of the illustrations inside.

http://kylemaloney.moonfruit.com/#/photos/4547571868
(the second to the last image in "other work"is the cover, minus the title, and the last is one of the pages inside)

I do caricatures on the side when I can. I still charge dirt cheap prices because I'm still learning how to capture likeness and speed things up more. I'm very hit or miss at times. I'm not trying to advertise my site here though, its not even done frankly. I go through another site. I barely know what I'm doing with it. A lot of its placeholder.

Anyway the book got quite a bit of attention from what I understand, but I'm not particularly proud of most of the drawings. Some are are just horrid imo, I know I can do better, but we had a deadline.

I could use some practice in making poses read nice and clear, and on composition. Also in consistency. There were a lot of pages in that book where I feel like the reader must be asking themselves if they were even looking at the same man and daughter. Especially the target demo.

I guess what I'm asking is do you or anyone else know of someone who might want someone to illustrate a book? I cant promise I can/will even finish it, but just as practice for myself. One thing I wasn't really able to do was go crazier with the art style. She wanted things very much grounded in reality because of its serious tone. Personally I'd like to take on something with a bit more give. Children books have some of the most imaginative visuals going on, I just need someone else to plant that seed for me, because as I said, I'm not much of a story teller.

One idea I like is the youtube series "written by a kid" which takes stories that were, as you may have guessed, written by a kid, and animates them.

One of my favorites.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O_UWRUacIuk" frameborder="0"></iframe>

I think it could be a lot of fun to take use this concept and try adapting a kids story myself. So if you have (or know) a kid who's written a story I'd love to hear it.

And of course if anyone with experience has any other input lets hear from you too. I know there is at least one book illustrator here for Disney, just cant remember who it was off hand.

Woah woah woah. I for one am very impressed by all of your work. Except for the "checkout" lady, I think it's all very good and very cool. You have such an, erm, animated, swishy, movement filled way of doing all those things. And I love that treehouse background with the ladder going down to a nowhere abyss. Very cool stuff dude, full of personality and just great stuff to see. Yes, it needs to look more structurally better or something I'm sure, and I can't help you much beyond telling you how great your stuff looks, but it's very awesome.

Glad you like most of it. What was it about the checkout lady? Is it the size of the lips? The problem was the drawing is so small I had little control over the smaller details. I had already over erased as it was. That aside though I think its one of my better ones, and the shading on that one was really fun once I got into it.

The treehouse is a theme I keep coming back to, that's one of those seeds of ideas I was referring to when I mentioned stories I don't know how to flesh out. The basic idea is that there's this kid who wants to escape from the world and goes to live in this tree, but the ladder eventually wears away and he cant make it down. I was worried the story resembled Where the wild things are too much though.

The checkout lady looked wonky/badly drawn/no structure. I could be wrong but that's what I see. Um, her hair looked too big and like about to slip over her face and yea her lips were to big, but the whole thing felt like it wasn't structured right. I can't describe it any more than that.

Kyle wrote:The basic idea is that there's this kid who wants to escape from the world and goes to live in this tree, but the ladder eventually wears away and he cant make it down. I was worried the story resembled Where the wild things are too much though.

I don't remember enough from Wild Things but that idea of yours sounds GREAT.

Kyle, when you say you still haven't advanced your education, does that mean that you're planning on going to school for art? There are a ton of great art schools out there and I think that with some instruction and direction you would see an enormous leap forward in your work. I'm graduating from College for Creative Studies in May, and I know that as I've gone through school I've seen a lot of students with work very similar to yours go through and improve SO much.

I think you should think more about what you could really see yourself doing. You say anything creative would be great, but that's so broad and leaves so much up in the air. You mention animation, caricature, and illustration... and as similar as they may seem they are truthfully all VERY different from one another. If you think that illustration may be a good path for you, then narrow it down even further - what kind of illustration? It seems like you're really drawn to children's books, and I think that would be great for you - some of your work has seeds of that already - especially the guy with the guitar and the guy in red with the tie. Definitely two of your stronger pieces.

If you aren't happy with the structure in your work, I would start way back at the beginning: start copying Michelangelo and DaVinci and other masters. Literally copy their drawings and paintings, and your structure will improve dramatically. If you want to work on posing, go through any great animated film and do thumbnails of just the poses. Overall I think you just need more experience. I wouldn't be as concerned right now with doing an actual book or commissions from other people - I would just try and fill up as many sketchbooks as you can. Give yourself a number, and do that many drawings a day. Glen Keane always talks about the weekend at the beach where he filled up 17 entire sketchbooks or some crazy number like that after he was turned down by Disney. Do THAT, and you'll see improvement like crazy.

Keep up the good work, and keep us updated! I find that if you tell other people that you'll be posting more artwork, you'll find yourself more motivated to stick with it. Feel free to check out my stuff at mattdewater.blogspot.com. I'd love to hear what you think as well!

I would buy the book once it becomes published.

You have a lot of artistic talent which I noticed big time with the Toy Story pictures you took.

Also I just looked at your pictures and yeah I love your caricatures, I thought the Dinosaur looked amazing. So yeah I think you have a lot of potential. Perhaps applying to an art school might be a good option, but I know I've heard of people before that haven't gone to school and still make great books and art.

Disney Duster wrote:The checkout lady looked wonky/badly drawn/no structure. I could be wrong but that's what I see. Um, her hair looked too big and like about to slip over her face and yea her lips were to big, but the whole thing felt like it wasn't structured right. I can't describe it any more than that.

There's no right or wrong here, all I ask is for honesty, something thats hard to come by with friends and family. Most of them sugarcoat everything. Or when they hate it they cant or wont explain why.

Wish I had the reference photo I used for that pic, it was an actual pose more or less. I believe it was for a Halloween costume. Same hair too.

SWillie! wrote:Kyle, when you say you still haven't advanced your education, does that mean that you're planning on going to school for art? There are a ton of great art schools out there and I think that with some instruction and direction you would see an enormous leap forward in your work. I'm graduating from College for Creative Studies in May, and I know that as I've gone through school I've seen a lot of students with work very similar to yours go through and improve SO much.

Yes, eventually. My original plan was to move out to Emeryville California, attend expression, which is very close to Pixar. I hear they often pluck students from there to hire. A number of things have gotten in the way of that. Aside from moving out there in general (I'm clear across the country in Delaware) I have an online friend who attended there with similar aspirations. Talented as he is, he finished but never found anything close to artistic afterwords. He almost got something at Apple, as well as EA if I recall, but it didn't work out. His spirit has been shattered. Regrets the whole thing now. Works in construction now I think.

I want to try not to run into these same pitfalls. I guess a lot of it just comes down to who you know and sheer luck. And just how determined you are. As determined as I think I am, I cant really know for sure until I get in there and face rejection on that level time and time again. Of course, I don't have to go big or not at all do I? But in the immediate future money has been big road block. I'm also not terribly close to any art schools that I know of. Let alone reputable ones. When I do pick something I want to feel confident its not money going to waste. I'm not eager to jump into crushing debt without some kind of assurance it'll be worthwhile.

SWillie! wrote:I think you should think more about what you could really see yourself doing. You say anything creative would be great, but that's so broad and leaves so much up in the air. You mention animation, caricature, and illustration... and as similar as they may seem they are truthfully all VERY different from one another. If you think that illustration may be a good path for you, then narrow it down even further - what kind of illustration? It seems like you're really drawn to children's books, and I think that would be great for you - some of your work has seeds of that already - especially the guy with the guitar and the guy in red with the tie. Definitely two of your stronger pieces.

I'm definitely all over the place, heh. That's not even the end of it. I want to give photography a go, as disneyboy seems to have noticed. I've been saving for my first DSLR for a while but with no job that will take a while longer.

I say anything creative as a starting point because I haven't yet explored enough to know what I can stick with and do well enough. This book thing could be just a flavor of the week in the long run. (not literally but you know). At risk of being a jack of all trades, master of none I figure its good to cover my basis. So many people feel pressured to move on and get a "real" job with some stability. I have to be open to whatever comes my way because Ive never had a real backup plan. If I narrow it down too much I could be screwed.

Say I chose hand drawn animation. its such a niche job market that it can be pretty difficult to find anything. especially if they want CG. Especially with all the outsourcing going on in the States. I'm also open to CG, in fact ever since Toy Story I had a feeling I that's where things were headed. Of course now its pretty much the only type of animation in demand by employers. So Ive dabbled in that as well.

The caricature thing came about from wanting work on better capturing people's likeness. Not how they literally look, but how our brains interpret them. I look at artists like MAD artist Tom Richmond and really envy the ability to take a persons most recognizable features and push them as far as you can go. I would actually like to give live caricature a try at the beach or something, but I'm terrified of the whole thing. I'm probably not at the level I need to be to capture a person's likeness and do it quickly. That's why I stick to studio work for now.

Tom has a great book out by the way (I got mine signed), and its easily the best Ive seen on the subject. Its ridiculous now comprehensive it is on everything. This is THE book to get to help improve caricature. His book doesn't really cover bodies and gestures though.

The main thing is telling a story, which you can do with any of these skills. Their very different, yes, but in a way they also work together as one. If I can tell a proper story in its most basic form I should be able to leverage that into storyboards and then animation.

Ive already done some tests in Toon Boom. Still have a lot to learn of course.


The caricature stuff comes into play when designing characters, as that's how I prefer to characters to look, exaggerated and fun where appropriate, not too "realistic".

One, or two of the other artists I should say (their twins and often work as a unit) I look to at the moment is Elena and Olivia. I don't think they have even done much as far as getting work, but looking at their style, you'd think they've been doing this for twice their age. Their only 18. Its easy to imagine classic children's books in their style. Not kids exclusively of course, a universal appeal is always my aim, but I know kids would love this type of thing and they remind me of the type of books the librarian would read us in the 2nd grade. Not the ones that talk down to you, but could draw you in on visuals alone and be understood by anyone.

SWillie! wrote: If you aren't happy with the structure in your work, I would start way back at the beginning: start copying Michelangelo and DaVinci and other masters. Literally copy their drawings and paintings, and your structure will improve dramatically. If you want to work on posing, go through any great animated film and do thumbnails of just the poses. Overall I think you just need more experience. I wouldn't be as concerned right now with doing an actual book or commissions from other people - I would just try and fill up as many sketchbooks as you can. Give yourself a number, and do that many drawings a day. Glen Keane always talks about the weekend at the beach where he filled up 17 entire sketchbooks or some crazy number like that after he was turned down by Disney. Do THAT, and you'll see improvement like crazy.

Keep up the good work, and keep us updated! I find that if you tell other people that you'll be posting more artwork, you'll find yourself more motivated to stick with it. Feel free to check out my stuff at mattdewater.blogspot.com. I'd love to hear what you think as well![/url]

When I talk about structure, I was talking more about hitting certain beats in a story. Learning what to show a character doing from what angle. What has the bigger emotional impact. How to only show what's necessary to explain what's happening.

That's not to say I don't need to work on structure from an individual picture standpoint, because I know I need to work on that too, but yeah, that's something that will just come with experience. I think on the structure of story though, it might be a bit more teachable. Certain things you would learn in film school would probably apply here.

I do need to fill more sketchbooks. a lot of the time I struggle to think of anything interesting. I take a small sketch book every time I go to the beach in the summer, but I'm lucky if I fill up 3 pages. Most of it is garbage. When drawing thumbnails I find it difficult to not get caught up in the details that dont matter.

Geeze, do I ramble or what?

I went through some of your stuff SWillie, your ridiculously good. I tend to prefer a bit more cartoony/exaggerated myself, but there's no denying the draftsmanship in everything I'm seeing of yours. I take it you do quite a bit of life drawing with live models?

Hey Kyle! As an aspiring animator myself, I can pass along two books which helped teach me the basics: Character Mentor and How to Draw Comics The Marvel Way.

Wow, I like your art. You have a great style. I like to draw too, but I have the same problems as you (the same character not looking the same, poses, etc.), so I can't offer much. I just wanted to poke in and say that I actually really like your checkout lady. The pose is spot on and nicely shaded. The only thing wrong with it is the face (and possibly the hand on the table, but sometimes even when you draw hands correctly they still look funny. I'm guessing that's the case here). The facial features are out of proportion, and the eyes are staring in different directions. It looks more cartoony than the realistic looking body. But other than that, it's really nice. So, basically, I'm saying, Duster's awesome, but you should listen to me, not him.