DVDizzy Forum

I've just started reading up on the Disney restorations of the animated feature films and have a lingering questions.


What is the General thought on both the Platnium Bambi and the Diamond version? Any differences? I have the diamond and think it's gorgeous, i'm wondering how accurate it is to original intention? I've heard Olli and Frank loved it?

Does the Diamond version lack on extras found on platnium?

What is this Lion King clouds error i keep hearing about on the newest dvd? Is this new DE worth picking up?


I've heard that Beauty and the Beast was comprimised when being restored? What happened and should i pick up an earlier release?

In The Lion King, they changed the sky from pink (original) to orange (but it was already applied in the PE).
Also, right after Mufasa's apparition, there used to be clouds as Simba runs toward him but they're gone in the DE.

Beauty and the Beast - in the DE, you can choose between the version with Human Again or the "original". The problem is the original is not what it promises. Right after "Something There", we should see Mrs. Potts kissing Chip and Belle & beast in the background. Instead, there's a frame from the SE showing the objects and the hallway in the background.

Personally, I would take the DE of BATB over the PE any day. The PE has washed out colors and the same problem with the "missing" frame of Mrs. Potts and Chip. I understand it was fixed in the 3D DE and that the colors were closer to the original than the standard DE.

We are not sure about Beauty and the Beast. We do know the original version in theaters was not how the filmakers intended it to look, so they "restored" the film (really just tampered with it) to make the colors closer to how they wanted it to look for the Platinum Edition, the Diamond Edition, and the 3D Diamond Edition. But the Diamond Edition looks different, and so does the 3D Diamond Edition (each releae looked closer and closer to the original final print colors)! So we aren't sure exactly how they want the film to look now!

jade wrote:What is the General thought on both the Platnium Bambi and the Diamond version? Any differences? I have the diamond and think it's gorgeous, i'm wondering how accurate it is to original intention? I've heard Olli and Frank loved it?

There isn’t much of a difference according to Don Hahn. Forgive me for quoting myself quoting Don Hann but...

jpanimation wrote: Here is a comment Don Hahn made during an interview when referring to Blu-Ray:

"If there is a drawback, I would have to say that its greatest strength might also be its greatest drawback! That would only be because the clarity and quality of a Blu-ray presentation really shows everything. A good example would be Bambi. We were recently reviewing the 2004 restoration and notice some additional artifacts in the image. So now, we are going back to do another "beauty pass" on an already beautiful restoration."

To me, this doesn't suggest that they are going back to the original negative, rescanning at 4k, and essentially doing a brand new restoration from scratch. It sounds more like they're taking the original 2k restoration and adding additional DNR.

IMO, the Blu-ray looks fantastic. I still want a new 4k scan for preservation reasons but what we got on Blu-ray is indeed the Frank and Ollie approved transfer with additional cleanup (it was the first and only Platinum Edition release to feature grain, which they don't allow anymore). The only thing they could’ve done better would’ve been to include the original RKO opeing title card.

jade wrote: Does the Diamond version lack on extras found on platnium?

The main missing supplements from the Platinum Edition are the ‘Disney Time Capsule’ feature showcasing the major events of 1942 and the promotional artwork section of the image gallery. Other then that, it’s pretty much an exact copy of the Platinum Edition DVD.

jade wrote: What is this Lion King clouds error i keep hearing about on the newest dvd? Is this new DE worth picking up?

Specifically, 10 secs and 35 secs into this video:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IWiRPAb8KNw" frameborder="0"></iframe>

You should notice the missing clouds. To answer your other question, yes it's worth picking up but be aware that the vast majority of the supplemental material are on Virtual Vault (ie a total pain to access) and that they haven't issued a replacement program for the missing clouds yet. They also removed the original Blue Castle logo during the opening of the film and replaced it with the new CG castle, which unfortunately also removed the sound effects that were heard during it (animal noises and such).

To elaborate further upon what rodis brought up, the sky being changed from pink to orange takes place during the “Can You Feel the Love Tonight” number and was first seen implemented on the Platinum Edition. Why? I really don’t know. It make the whole thing a little weird when the sky just suddenly turns pink part way through the sequence when it was originally pink all the way through. All I know is that during the commentary Roger Allers specifically mentions the sky as being pink when it no longer is.

Also, I hate to keep quoting and linking to myself but I’ve discussed some of The Lion King changes previously in the following thread:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... uds#582709

jade wrote:I've heard that Beauty and the Beast was comprimised when being restored? What happened and should i pick up an earlier release?

Disney Duster has pretty much told you all you need to know about the color controversy, which is leading cause of headaches among fans. Of course, they have changed animation and messed up editing and such but that would all take to long to explain, since they seem to do something new on each release.

I’m going to link to myself again here. Below I have some comparisons between the standard Diamond Edition release for Beauty and the Beast and the 3D Diamond Edition release (also seen in theaters), which brought the colors closer to the theatrical release:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 793#597793

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 419#600419

Disney has yet to issue a replacement program correcting the regular Diamond Edition release to have the 3D Diamond Edition release's colors. Below I have additional comparisons documenting the ever changing color pallet used during the ballroom sequence, in which I feel the Princess and the Frog HD trailer most accurately represents the original colors:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ons#525180

If you’re wondering about changes made to Cinderella and I'm not saying you are, I suggest you save yourself the time and check out the thread Disney Duster already started:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29946

I hate what they did to the Lion King, both intentional and accidental changes and refuse to pick it up in the state its in. The plat looked much better to me except for the fact that its not in HD.

Beauty and the beast also looks awful, only the 3D version represents the version I saw as a kid. Yellows look a tad greenish, but overall it's the best release so far. I just wish it was also available for 2D viewing.

Restoration complaints have ranged from legitimate to eye-roll worthy to just plain weary. Sometimes some look too much into them. The complaints also range from blatantly obvious to extremely subtle. Color issues are another problem as TV-rips (from the 80s-today), over-saturated VHS's and laserdiscs are used to as reference to color when they are questionable at best. Then there's artistic intent over the original theatrical release. Plus there's the double standard with artistic intent. Artistic intent is wrong with BatB and Original Theatrical Release should be goal while with Pocahontas, "If I never knew you" is more important than getting the Original Theatrical Release.

Wow... I had no idea about TLK and the missing clouds. Then again, I dont have the Diamond Edition.... I'm happy with the platinum... except for the darn crocodiles!

I like those crocs better.


btw, the pink-to-orange change was probably to implement a passage of time that was at least present when you see them running around after drinking the water.

Doesnt matter...I want the original crocs!

Some great and very informative answers in here! You guys are the best, seriously.


I have one more question, how was the restoration of Pinocchio? Anything removed, are the colors in question?


I'm really upset to hear about Beauty and the Beast but are the original animators etc. apart of these releases? Maybe they wanted to make some changes? Not that i'm for that, i'm just wondering if that is whats going on with the Lion King and BATB? I'll take artistic intent over someone else butchering it.


The changing of Cinderella's dress was just awful.


These are masterpieces, why aren't they protected from things like this. These ''restorations'' should be watched over and over again to make sure nothing unwanted happened during the ''restoration''.

Some great and very informative answers in here! You guys are the best, seriously.


I have one more question, how was the restoration of Pinocchio? Anything removed, are the colors in question?


I'm really upset to hear about Beauty and the Beast but are the original animators etc. apart of these releases? Maybe they wanted to make some changes? Not that i'm for that, i'm just wondering if that is whats going on with the Lion King and BATB? I'll take artistic intent over someone else butchering it.


The changing of Cinderella's dress was just awful.


These are masterpieces, why aren't they protected from things like this. These ''restorations'' should be watched over and over again to make sure nothing unwanted happened during the ''restoration''.

jade wrote:I have one more question, how was the restoration of Pinocchio? Anything removed, are the colors in question?

I personally love the restoration for Pinocchio and think it looks fantastic. Some people argue against it, claiming it's supposed to look overly brightened with a yellowish-brown tint over it washing out detail (merely there opinion, since we don't know what artistic intent is) but they're in the minority. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdrevie ... lu-ray.htm

I think it looks much more natural and that seems to be the general consensus. As for whether anything was removed...yes. During it's original release, the Blu-ray was missing a couple of lines during the "Give a little Whistle" musical number. They have since been reincorporated on later presses and Disney has issue a replacement program.

jade wrote:I'm really upset to hear about Beauty and the Beast but are the original animators etc. apart of these releases? Maybe they wanted to make some changes? Not that i'm for that, i'm just wondering if that is whats going on with the Lion King and BATB? I'll take artistic intent over someone else butchering it.

This is actually a really hard question to answer. Yes, the producers and the directors approve the transfer but at the same time we're not sure which transfer it is they approved (when talking about Beauty and the Beast), since the 2D and 3D (also shown in theaters) releases are different. Some things like the messed up edit in Beauty and the Beast or the missing clouds in The Lion King are obviously an oversight that we're all hoping gets corrected at some point.

jade wrote:These are masterpieces, why aren't they protected from things like this. These ''restorations'' should be watched over and over again to make sure nothing unwanted happened during the ''restoration''.

You're preaching to the choir.

jpanimation wrote:

jade wrote:I have one more question, how was the restoration of Pinocchio? Anything removed, are the colors in question?

I personally love the restoration for Pinocchio and think it looks fantastic. Some people argue against it, claiming it's supposed to look overly brightened with a yellowish-brown tint over it washing out detail (merely there opinion, since we don't know what artistic intent is) but they're in the minority. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdrevie ... lu-ray.htm

I think it looks much more natural and that seems to be the general consensus. As for whether anything was removed...yes. During it's original release, the Blu-ray was missing a couple of lines during the "Give a little Whistle" musical number. They have since been reincorporated on later presses and Disney has issue a replacement program.

jade wrote:I'm really upset to hear about Beauty and the Beast but are the original animators etc. apart of these releases? Maybe they wanted to make some changes? Not that i'm for that, i'm just wondering if that is whats going on with the Lion King and BATB? I'll take artistic intent over someone else butchering it.

This is actually a really hard question to answer. Yes, the producers and the directors approve the transfer but at the same time we're not sure which transfer it is they approved (when talking about Beauty and the Beast), since the 2D and 3D (also shown in theaters) releases are different. Some things like the messed up edit in Beauty and the Beast or the missing clouds in The Lion King are obviously an oversight that we're all hoping gets corrected at some point.

jade wrote:These are masterpieces, why aren't they protected from things like this. These ''restorations'' should be watched over and over again to make sure nothing unwanted happened during the ''restoration''.

You're preaching to the choir.

How can i be sure when buying Pinoocchio that they are getting the updated copy? I plan on buying the Blu Ray online next week.

I've seen alot of people upset that the orange light was removed in the candle scene, making it darker. What was that orange anyways, it wasn't paint was it?


If i'm not pestering you too much, how was Dumbo's most recent restoration? It's out now and i may grab it tomorrow night.

according to complainers, the orange light was candlelight, but candles wouldnt be that bright. It probably was just wear.

jade wrote:How can i be sure when buying Pinoocchio that they are getting the updated copy? I plan on buying the Blu Ray online next week.

This article will offer more information on the defective disc:

http://www.examiner.com/article/walt-di ... ge-program

The easiest way is to be sure you're not getting the defective disc is by confirming that the Blu-ray stock number ISN'T 100057. The stock number can be found of the spine of the case.

jade wrote:I've seen alot of people upset that the orange light was removed in the candle scene, making it darker. What was that orange anyways, it wasn't paint was it?

None of us can be certain but like ajmrowland, I feel that it was probably just some kind of wear.

jade wrote:If i'm not pestering you too much, how was Dumbo's most recent restoration? It's out now and i may grab it tomorrow night.

It's been unanimously praised. Even the purists with their personal film prints are pleased.

ajmrowland wrote:according to complainers, the orange light was candlelight, but candles wouldnt be that bright. It probably was just wear.

I suspect wear was the reason why colors looked the way they did on early Disney films when they were aired in the 80s and released on VHS and laserdisc. Most of us first discovered those films though nth generation prints. That's what we were used to and what we have in our heads as correct, whether or not it actually is correct. [/b]

jpanimation wrote:

jade wrote:If i'm not pestering you too much, how was Dumbo's most recent restoration? It's out now and i may grab it tomorrow night.

It's been unanimously praised. Even the purists with their personal film prints are pleased.

Sounds like all restorations should be like that one. What do you mean by personal film prints though? Like they own some original film prints of the movie?!

^he didnt necessarily mean literally as much as the biggest, most hardcore obsessive fans of the movie.

I don't think thats the question Duster was asking.

Duster, yes... Actual film prints from these movies do exist (there's actually a lot of them out there) and if you know where to look they aren't always all that expensive (full films are harder to come by then clips and sections, however). For example, I own a short film clip from a print of Sleeping Beauty. It's not from it's original theatrical run, but from a rerelease.

Disney Duster wrote:What do you mean by personal film prints though? Like they own some original film prints of the movie?!

Yes. I frequent sites where it's not uncommon that users own their own film prints, although usually 16mm prints. Specifically for this film, they were IB tech prints (the ones that never fade) and these colors are supposedly dead on. To contrast, these people were furious over Alice in Wonderland and Fantasia, soo...I consider this some kind of victory lol