DVDizzy Forum

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Probably just the usual "it's cool to hate on popular things" deal

I remember seeing it on its initial release and feeling a little disappointed...Why?

Hype overdrive!

There was SO much hype at the time. Elton's music was being played everywhere, merchandise was everywhere and...people were seemingly talking about it and reading about it everywhere! Lol!

It also seemed that it was suddenly 'cool' again to like a Disney film as a child or an adult, and most of my peers (and older) that I knew, had or were going to see it.

At the time I was just 'discovering' Disney and was busy catching up with the classics that never interested me much as a child, on VHS - the ones of course that I could get hold of as a few had already been deleted. In a way I couldn't help but draw comparisons between them and this 'new' film, and so although I did mostly enjoy it, I really couldn't understand the fuss and commotion. I had never been much of an Elton John fan either.

I suppose it's like anything else, if you see a film or listen to an album after everyone else has (and is raving about) quite often it doesn't live up to your expectations.

I think there's very little hate, if any, for the Lion King among the general film watching public but maybe there's not as much (but still plenty of) love for it among Disney animation fans, as to us, I suppose, we see it as part of the whole Disney story and enjoy its many strengths but are more aware of its weaknesses.

That's not to say there aren't people that visit these pages that will always rank Lion King as their No.1 but there's also a great number that place it lower down.

Anyway, that's my take - if it makes sense!

Yeah, I'm aware that I've generalised above but if you have time to snoop around I think you'll find that I'm not far off the mark in my views!

Matt

rexcrk wrote:Probably just the usual "it's cool to hate on popular things" deal

Pretty much this.


Lion King may not be the best but to me it one of the most memorable and one of my personal favorites due to my like for Lions and Africa. This movie was practically MADE specifically for me.

I think popularity plays a big part of it, yes. If there's a big following for something, there is bound to be a fair amount of vocal hatred for it as well. And like MattDean said, the film was heavily hyped back in the day.

But there are a few fair points used in criticizing The Lion King, and some of these include:

1- Simba's character. A lot of people consider him to be whiny or lifeless, the majority of viewers preferring Scar to him.
2- The music. I think some Alan Menken diehards resent that Disney decided to use Elton John instead of Menken for the music, and Hans Zimmer for the score. And then there's some who just plain don't like the songs, Elton or not.
3- How similar the film is to Bambi. Both are coming-of-age animal films in which the young prince of their respective animal kingdoms go through their life, lose one of their parents at a young age, and rise to become king and raise a family.
4- Timon and Pumbaa. A lot of viewers think that they distract from the story and are more gross and irritating than funny.

I think there's more, but these are the first that come to mind. Out of these points, I understand them all, but only really agree with 4.

I think Simba is a likable character. His emotions reflected mine throughout the film. When he was curious about heading over to the elephant graveyard, I was curious with him, and excited when he, Nala, and Zazu tried to escape from the hyenas. When he and Mufasa would play with each other, I felt happy with them. And when Mufasa died, you better believe I was saddened. Simba reminded me of myself at that age. If I can totally and utterly feel for a character like that, then they've succeeded in being. True, he might be a little underdeveloped, particularly when he grows up, but that seems to be true for a lot of the Disney leads when I think about it.

As for the music, I'll admit that I never much cared for "Hakuna Matata", even as a kid, and can take or leave "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" (and don't even get me started on "Morning Report"), but the others are songs I really like, and would put among my favorite Disney tracks. Even the biggest haters seem to like "Be Prepared", though, as well as Scar in general.

And yes, there are a few similarities to Bambi, but I think that's more of an influence than an imitiation, myself. They're quite different in execution. Bambi is a lot more subdued, while Lion King is vibrant and more cinematic.

I understand and respect the flaws in The Lion King, but I don't necessarily agree with all of them. It's among my favorites in the DAC, and I wish that Disney would make more movies like it, since I tend to prefer their animal films to the fairy tales.

Listen here, dude; Every movie has haters and lovers. That's just how it is.

I wouldn't call it hate- I'd call it good, old-fashioned annoyance. But then, isn't that enough talk of pre-"Where Are They Now?" Jonathan Taylor Thomas... The Lion King is just, simply put, one of the most obnoxious movies I have ever seen in my entire life. They try to turn every single thing in the story, with the music and characters, up to 11(*). What that does is it takes a lot of smoothness out of it. It's a bumpy ride. Too bumpy. Mostly bumpy. And whatever I might have responded to along the way wears off before the big "epic" confrontation. Scar is the most interesting thing here, bar none. And when he actually acts upon one of his evil promises, he turns into the laziest villain in animated history- even compared to Robin Hood's Prince John, Scar is a blob. And that is going to challenge in-his-prime Simba? (When he finally becomes someone we can tolerate: animated Matthew Broderick.) In an epic-styled throwdown worthy of the stakes this movie has laid down- Idon'tthinkso,Tim. Also: no interesting female characters, potty humor (and graphic at that, by Disney standards), I don't believe there's enough given in the beginning of the film to make us care about what happens to Mufasa. I think one of the reasons this movie was hyped so much is that they wanted to sell the viewers on how much they would like the voices (since almost all of them, children will recognize) and use that to fill in the considerable character blanks. The characters are mostly blanks anyway- so the movie pads itself with strategic one-liners ("Tastes like chicken" being the most obvious one), of course those horrible songs (sorry, Frankenollie- I outright disagree with you on the inherent quality of the songs... well, except for "Be Prepared"), watered-down dramatic highpoints, and lots of little bits of screen-filling business inbetween the jokes and songs which are like Test-Screen-Approved pokes in the ribs to remind kids that it's okay to laugh and smile again. Even though I never bought into the drama of the film, even at age 11.

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuzpsO4ErOQ

Yeah, I think it has to do with the fact that it's hugely popular. That, and maybe Timon & Pumbaa. Simba and Nala are kind of bland, and it's an ultra-manly film (the lionesses have practically no role in this story).

Still, it was one of my favorite films as a child and, even though I like it less than I used to, it's still in my top ten Disney films, and I do believe it's one of Disney's best.

(Would make a better post and respond to other people, but my home phoneline isn't working and I'm busy at the library right now)

Personally, my only beef with this film is how it's popularity seemed to effect the popularity of the films following it (specifically Pocahontas).

Although Pocahontas had some story flaws, I honestly believe that if it had been released prior to The Lion King the film would have been better perceived by fans and the company alike. I don't remember it's box office numbers specifically but I do remember reading about how the film made around the same amount of money as The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin. Due to The Lion King's massive success, however, Pocahontas has been seen as performing badly. I'm sure there are some minor inflation differences, but the whole idea of the "fab 4" has never really settled well for me.

It just feels to me that in a way The Lion King led to the downfall of the studio because instead of just making good films they were focused on making a lot of money. That kinda led into the whole "Disney Formula" idea. I'm not saying good films didn't come out of that late 90's period, but I think we can all admit they lack in popularity comparied to the early 90's. If Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, and Tarzan would have been released instead of TLM, BatB, Aladdin, and TLK would that still be the case?

Because it presents us with cheap symbolism, lazy recycling of New Age ideas about 'the circle of life', in-your-face conversations and images about The Message (in capitals) that the movie wants you to take away from it, and it tries to pass all this off as something intelligent, deep and thought-provoking, when it's everything but. Instead, it's the exact opposite. The movie is full of cliches, like when Simba is looking into the well and his reflection turns into his father, and they're horribly overdone too. You don't have to do any thinking or introspection for this movie; it tells you everything. In fact, it hits you over the head with it. It tries to be much bigger and more important than it really is. It's pretentious and that wouldn't be so bad, if what it had to offer, would actually be entertaining. But even that falls flat because of the total lack of characters to care for or songs to enjoy.

I have no problem with the film and like it very much but I don't think it justifies the hype that surrounds it to this day. I agree with singerguy04, that the unprededented success of the The Lion King played a part in the decline in the success of those films that followed. Personally, I think The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Mulan are both better films than TLK.

Doesn't matter what it is, any film, song, band, actor, person, tv show, whatever has hate.

There are things that are liked by many, many different people. The Lion King is one of those films that is beloved by so many people.

Goliath wrote:Because it presents us with cheap symbolism, lazy recycling of New Age ideas about 'the circle of life', in-your-face conversations and images about The Message (in capitals) that the movie wants you to take away from it, and it tries to pass all this off as something intelligent, deep and thought-provoking, when it's everything but. Instead, it's the exact opposite. The movie is full of cliches, like when Simba is looking into the well and his reflection turns into his father, and they're horribly overdone too. You don't have to do any thinking or introspection for this movie; it tells you everything. In fact, it hits you over the head with it. It tries to be much bigger and more important than it really is. It's pretentious and that wouldn't be so bad, if what it had to offer, would actually be entertaining. But even that falls flat because of the total lack of characters to care for or songs to enjoy.

Maybe becuase there is no such thing as a movie that everyone likes? There will always be someone who thinks a certain movie is good or bad in contrast with the majority. And sometimes, the majority likes crap or doesn't like good movies and the one in contrast is spot on. The thing about stories or works of art is it comes down to personal opinion.

For me, while it is not my favorite Disney film, it is on my top ten list. I've heard the criticisms for a long time now, and while I don't agree with any of them, can at least understand why some may feel the way they do. Thankfully, with 51+ Disney Animated Classics, there is at least bound to be one that everyone at least likes somewhat.

@Goliath: I do agree that the movie is pretty pretentious, that it beats you over the head with its ideas and that it heavily relies on cliches, but I feel just about every film between Aladdin and Lilo & Stitch have the same flaw (except perhaps TENG). Just because TLK shares the same flaw with others doesn't mean it's any less detrimental here, to be true, but I do feel this film was only the tip of the iceberg from that perspective.

Lazario wrote:Scar is the most interesting thing here, bar none.

Completely agree that Scar is the best thing about the film. I know you don't think he's great in comparison to other villains, but I personally think he’s one of Disney’s few great male villains--though they aren't an especially amazing breed anyway.

I think one of the reasons this movie was hyped so much is that they wanted to sell the viewers on how much they would like the voices (since almost all of them, children will recognize).

I didn't know any of the voice actors as a child, except maybe JTT--but I didn't watch Home Improvement, so it must've been from some other things he was in at the time. I know you've complained about him before, but I don't really like Broderick either voice-wise, tbh.

(sorry, Frankenollie- I outright disagree with you on the inherent quality of the songs... well, except for "Be Prepared")

I’ve never been hugely crazy about “Be Prepared” myself; I find “Circle of Life” and “Can You Feel” to be the best from this film, although they aren’t the type of songs I listen to very often--and they're far from my favorite Disney songs. I do feel they are great mood-setters though.

I guess what bothers me most about LK is the contrast between the "epic" stuff and the goofy, obnoxious, unlikebale characters/lines*. A good example would be to think about how the opening scene is devoid of any of that type of material that follows it. In the intro the characters are drawn more realistically, they don't speak and it has a very dramatic sweeping feel which is very well done it's by far the best part of the movie. Unfortunately, it goes downhill from there with not only Timon and Pumbaa, but the Hyenas, young Simba and even Zazu at times acting bratty in a way that I find very unappealing (but others find hilarious, go fig.). There are some other moments later in the movie that capture the feel of the opening, but their too brief for me. The hype doesn't help either.

LK could have been alot more like Bambi, with a bigger emphasis on visual, atmospheric storytelling instead of constant chatter, but it sadly didn't. At least "Circle of Life" is there.

*other 90s Disney movies have this too, but I find they have less annoying characters and better songs, especially Hunchback.

Super Aurora wrote:

I really like that gif! I want to flash it at Confused Matthew (a movie reviewer) who made an hour-long movie complaining about The Lion King. He split the movie into three videos and posted them on his website.

it seems people just hate in general. i cant say how many times ive had to defend something from a firestorm.

Sky Syndrome wrote:

Super Aurora wrote:

I really like that gif! I want to flash it at Confused Matthew (a movie reviewer) who made an hour-long movie complaining about The Lion King. He split the movie into three videos and posted them on his website.

An hour-long video complaining about The Lion King? I could spend that much time watching grass die.

I think its just the studio that makes it seem overrated and people are just in disagreement with that.