DVDizzy Forum

Assuming everybody has heard, Uganda has a pending bill that would harshen criminal sanctions against homosexuality in their country, going so far as to execute gays for multiple offenses (although that particular clause may be pending along with the bill).

I would like everybody who opposes this law to sign this worldwide petition against the bill. The goal is to reach a million signed names, and so far it has just over 900,000.

Here's a link to the petition:



http://www.avaaz.org/en/uganda_stop_hom ... ion_2/?twi[/url]

I won't sign the petition, just because I don't believe in them --I don't believe they change anything. I think the Ugandan government would just wipe its ass with it. The real underlying problem, of course, is that the vast majority of people in Uganda agree that homosexuality should be outlawed and be punsihed by law. Even if the bill wouldn't get passed, homosexuals would still have to fear for their lives. In those kind of countries, the government doesn't have a grip on all parts of the country and that means the people will 'deal' with gays and punish them, themselves.

What are Human Rights organizations doing about this? Why isn't there any international pressure against this by powerful Western countries?

Sotiris wrote:What are Human Rights organizations doing about this? Why isn't there any international pressure against this by powerful Western countries?

I don't know, do they have oil?

Even though Uganda is only 12% Muslim and 84% Christian, I fear for the rights (and safety) of gay people when Europe becomes majority Muslim which is predicted by 2050.

carolinakid wrote:Even though Uganda is only 12% Muslim and 84% Christian, I fear for the rights (and safety) of gay people when Europe becomes majority Muslim which is predicted by 2050.

I am absolutely not racist and accepting of all religions, yet the idea of a mostly-Muslim Europe scares me.

I consider myself open-minded yet at my core I don't seem to be quite that.

Sotiris wrote:What are Human Rights organizations doing about this? Why isn't there any international pressure against this by powerful Western countries?

Actually, Uganda's president was first in favor of the death penalty for homosexuals, but changed his stance after pressure from the US and UK (at least that's what I read in the paper). But, 'parliament' can do what it wants.

carolinakid wrote:Even though Uganda is only 12% Muslim and 84% Christian, I fear for the rights (and safety) of gay people when Europe becomes majority Muslim which is predicted by 2050.

That's a paranoïd conspiracy theory put forth by extreme right-wing politicians who hope to win votes by scaring the shit out of people. There is no way in which Europe would ever become a majority-muslim continent, even if we let all asylum seekers from the Mid-East in and they all had at least one baby every year for the rest of their lives!

People, don't buy into this fear-mongering; it's a lie! And, as Uganda shows, Christians aren't any better when it comes to tolerance of everybody who's not like them.

I respect your opinion, Goliath, and God knows you live there, but I read this in US Newsweek which is hardly a right wing publication. I believe France will be the first country in Europe (not counting Albania) to go majority Muslim. It's a question of simple math. French women average 2 babies while most Muslim women have 4, 5 or 6.....conversions to Islam are also up especially among women...it's not a question of if but when Muslims become the majority in Europe. The most popular name chosen for boy babies in Paris in 2009 was Mohammed.

Goliath wrote:

carolinakid wrote:Even though Uganda is only 12% Muslim and 84% Christian, I fear for the rights (and safety) of gay people when Europe becomes majority Muslim which is predicted by 2050.

That's a paranoïd conspiracy theory put forth by extreme right-wing politicians who hope to win votes by scaring the shit out of people. There is no way in which Europe would ever become a majority-muslim continent, even if we let all asylum seekers from the Mid-East in and they all had at least one baby every year for the rest of their lives!

THANK YOU!

Seriously, Islamophobia (is that correct?) is so 2010. Ugh!

I read somewhere that 120% of the world will be Muslim by 2050. Scary stuff!

I wrote:I consider myself open-minded yet at my core I don't seem to be quite that.

Scratch that. I AM open-minded and WILL NOT be scared by the proposed increasing popularity of another religion, regardless of how bogus the theory is. So there.

That's telling you!

carolinakid wrote:I respect your opinion, Goliath, and God knows you live there, but I read this in US Newsweek which is hardly a right wing publication. I believe France will be the first country in Europe (not counting Albania) to go majority Muslim. It's a question of simple math. French women average 2 babies while most Muslim women have 4, 5 or 6.....conversions to Islam are also up especially among women...it's not a question of if but when Muslims become the majority in Europe. The most popular name chosen for boy babies in Paris in 2009 was Mohammed.

It was also reported the most popular name for boys in London was Mohammed. Those bits of trivia are eagerly used by hard-right politicians, because they appeal to people. It's a simple bit of information from everyday life that we all can relate to. But what does that say about the total number of muslims in a country? The majority of muslim immigrants are always centered in the capitals and other big cities, but almost nowhere to be found in other, less densely populated areas. That leads to the fascinating phenomenon that most people who vote for anti-muslim parties live in small cities and villages where no muslim can be found, whereas those parties are small in big cities where lots of muslims live.

Moving away from that particular example. The theory that Europe will be a majority-muslim continent by the end of the century is put forth by Bernard Lewis, a scholar who is well-known and adored in right-wing circles for his anti-islam remarks, including the theory that muslims will take over Europe. However, Lewis and his theories have been widely discredited by his peers in the world of social sciences. This doesn't stop right-wing extremists from using his paranoid fantasy, because, obviously, anybody who opposes Lewis is, in their minds, a soft left-wing multiculturalist muslim-hugger who is blind for the pending danger.

To the numbers: the muslim population in Europe is now estimated at about 20 million people. Lewis and other right-winger have named the number of 54 million, but you only get to that number when you include the muslim populations in the south of Russia --not a part of Europe at all; that's Asia. Twenty million muslims in Europe nowadays, that's a meager 4% of the total population. If one were to believe Lewis, Newsweek and others, this less than 5% would have to expand to 51%; that's a jump from 20 million to 250 million in less than 40 years! Now how the muslims will ever be able to do that, nobody knows.

You mentioned that in France, muslim women get twice as much babies as the average non-muslim women. This is often said of muslims in The Netherlands, as well. It's a popular belief that's hard to get out of people's heads, it's a stereotype that still persists. But research has shown that this was only the case with the first generation of muslim immigrants. The next generations have adapted to our society and get, on average, around the same number of children we do. According to the Dutch Bureau for Statistics, the total number of muslims in The Netherlands will never be higher than 9% of the population. I don't see why this would be any different in France or other countries. There are no indications for it. Second, immigration laws have been severly tightened in almost all European countries. It's very hard for people from non-Western countries to get in.

So there are no grounds for this fear. I'm not here to defend Islam. Even though I know and have befriended muslims in my inner circle, I think of it as stupid and useless --like I view all religions.