DVDizzy Forum

Its no secret that Blu-ray and how certain studios treat the format has resulted in feelings of resentment towards for format for those who choose to stay with the DVD format. Such feelings are not good for the format, and ironically I feel that the situation has got so far out of hand that the studios are actually doing more to discourage adoption of Blu-ray!

I feel the solution is simple. Treat both DVD and Blu-ray purchasers will respect and the conflict will disappear.

To that end, I have drawn up a code of conduct for everyone who releases movies on home video... hopefully if these were followed, there would be no reason for either side to complain.

1. No DVD release shall have ordinary film/video based supplements omitted if there is room on the release to include them. (Either the single disc DVD or second disc should it be a 2-disc set). Regular film/video based supplements do not use any of the additional or enhanced features available on Blu-ray, so there is no need to exclude them.

2. No DVD release shall have a digital copy on disc. This takes up vital space that could be used for regular supplements. If you want to include a digital copy, use a download code instead. Blu-ray discs with their extra capacity may include a digital copy on disc - even if the majority of people will be unable to access it until Blu-ray PC drives become more common.

3. No release (be it DVD only, Blu-ray only or a DVD/Blu-ray combo) which includes a digital copy on a separate disc may include that disc in the disc count when promoting the release.

4. No DVD release shall have compromised encoding and/or bitrate in order to make a Blu-ray release look better and/or cram more supplements onto the release. The first is the equivalent of lying to the customer and the second is simply not needed - just make the release a 2 disc set.

5. The only Blu-ray exclusives should be supplements which make use of the extra features available to the format. Not only will this eliminate a lot of (quite right) resentment from DVD customers, but it will encourage technological and creative advancement. Its only now, four or so years from the introduction of the format, for example that we're finally getting two full 1080 streams available for viewing. Why is that? It was all but promised from early 2007 IIRC.

6. All Blu-ray releases will make use of BD-Live to include extra, timely supplements which would not be possible to include on the original Blu-ray due to scheduling. For example, most home video releases are finalised before the film in question is released, making it impossible to include supplements on the premiere, the critical or audience response, awards, promotional appearances, etc. These are ideal for BD-Live.

7. Blu-ray PiP content will not simply consist of pointing a camera at a normal DVD commentary session and showing the results in the corner of the screen. PiP content will include more imaginative content such as clean title sequences, VFX before and after comparisons, storyboards, B-roll footage etc. Ideally edited and arranged into a meaningful context.

8. No Blu-ray/DVD combo shall cost more than a Blu-ray release on its own. Most studios follow this policy, but alas, not all.

9. If ever a release is available with physical extras it shall be offered to both DVD and Blu-ray purchases (at the very least by releasing as a DVD/Blu-ray combo). In the past Blu-ray purchases have missed out, but increasingly DVD purchases are missing out today.

10. No release - DVD or Blu-ray, shall include a slipcover with the same design as the regular cover. Its just pointless. If a slipcover is included, it shall not be limited and will not be withdrawn on future production runs.

You know what is sad? How bare bones many Blu Ray releases are. Case in point? Disney really messed up on "Fantasia" with not have any of the original DVD extras and have meager extras that were included. The new Blu release of the holiday classics like "Rudolph the Red Noise Reindeer" had some fun extras on their original DVD's, yet have nothing on the Blu Ray. The Blu release of "The Never Ending Story" had nothing of the original merger extras from the DVD. They had a chance to have some really great extras, including the music video and dropped the ball. I could go on here, but I think my point is made. If we are suppose to adopt this new format, they can't have weak releases.

Excellent points. Send it to all the home video departments immediately! Although I think digital copy downloads are preferable to putting them on the Blu-ray for now.

I'm really loving this code of conduct and would love to see studios heed it. I would, however, quibble over a few smaller points:

2099net wrote: 5. The only Blu-ray exclusives should be supplements which make use of the extra features available to the format. Not only will this eliminate a lot of (quite right) resentment from DVD customers, but it will encourage technological and creative advancement. Its only now, four or so years from the introduction of the format, for example that we're finally getting two full 1080 streams available for viewing. Why is that? It was all but promised from early 2007 IIRC.

I think there are rare instances in which purely video/film-based bonus features are justifiable as Blu-ray exclusives when the sole reason is disc space. For example, a studio might release a fully-loaded 2-BD + 2-DVD combo pack. Even with both DVDs filled with content, they might not be able to contain all of the video/film-based supplements on the Blu-ray set (especially if the Blu-ray has multiple hours-long documentaries). In this case, the studio could probably just add a 3rd DVD but doing so might be cost prohibitive. Obviously, it's the rare release indeed that sees this kind of effort from any studio.

2099net wrote:6. All Blu-ray releases will make use of BD-Live to include extra, timely supplements which would not be possible to include on the original Blu-ray due to scheduling. For example, most home video releases are finalised before the film in question is released, making it impossible to include supplements on the premiere, the critical or audience response, awards, promotional appearances, etc. These are ideal for BD-Live.

I'd modify this to say "All Blu-ray releases will make use of BD-Live only to include extra, timely supplements which would not be possible to include on the original Blu-ray due to scheduling." ... I agree that the uses you described here are ideal for BD-Live, but in most other cases, supplementary material should be reserved for the disc itself. BD-Live is a real pain to access and should be used sparingly, and only when there's worthwhile content justifying it.

2099net wrote: If a slipcover is included, it shall not be limited and will not be withdrawn on future production runs.

I'm okay with limited runs on slipcover production. I'm sure it's a cost issue and at some point, it's less reasonable to continue demanding slipcovers. If slipcovers are that important to consumers, they should act quickly to secure them, or else turn to the second-hand market. So long as both DVDs and Blu-rays both see slipcovers retired after a given period of time, I don't think this practice is doing anything to create conflict between the two formats.

Otherwise, I love all of your suggestions and wholeheartedly endorse them!

AwallaceUNC wrote:

2099net wrote: 5. The only Blu-ray exclusives should be supplements which make use of the extra features available to the format. Not only will this eliminate a lot of (quite right) resentment from DVD customers, but it will encourage technological and creative advancement. Its only now, four or so years from the introduction of the format, for example that we're finally getting two full 1080 streams available for viewing. Why is that? It was all but promised from early 2007 IIRC.

I think there are rare instances in which purely video/film-based bonus features are justifiable as Blu-ray exclusives when the sole reason is disc space. For example, a studio might release a fully-loaded 2-BD + 2-DVD combo pack. Even with both DVDs filled with content, they might not be able to contain all of the video/film-based supplements on the Blu-ray set (especially if the Blu-ray has multiple hours-long documentaries). In this case, the studio could probably just add a 3rd DVD but doing so might be cost prohibitive. Obviously, it's the rare release indeed that sees this kind of effort from any studio.

Yeah, I think you're right there. Take Scott Pilgrim for example. Apparently Europe and Australia will get a 2 disc DVD set, but even then, the Blu-ray will have more content. But I don't think any European/Australian DVD purchaser can reasonably complain, because at least Universal have (I assume) filled 2 DVDs with content.

(On a related issue, the US did get a 3 disc Hot Fuzz DVD release (which the UK didn't) but even then I believe the Hot Fuzz DVD contains more than was on the 3 disc set.)

So yes, sometimes Blu-ray can legitimately hold more. However to date these instances have been rare - its much more common for a DVD release to hold back on short featurettes and save them for Blu-ray than it is for a DVD release to not feature an archival TV program and/or in-depth making of documentary.

As for slipcovers, I just don't see the point of them when they reproduce the case cover - even if they do include foil stamping, embossing or other enhancements. I only really see a need for them if their design is considerably different than the normal case. In which case, it probably is worth keeping them for subsequent production runs.

2099net wrote:Its no secret that Blu-ray and how certain studios treat the format has resulted in feelings of resentment towards for format for those who choose to stay with the DVD format. Such feelings are not good for the format, and ironically I feel that the situation has got so far out of hand that the studios are actually doing more to discourage adoption of Blu-ray!

I feel the solution is simple. Treat both DVD and Blu-ray purchasers will respect and the conflict will disappear.

To that end, I have drawn up a code of conduct for everyone who releases movies on home video... hopefully if these were followed, there would be no reason for either side to complain.

Well said, 2099net. EXCELLENT post!

You've hit the nail right on the head regarding my feelings. I was completely neutral/indifferent about the format in a Super Audio CD kind of way until I saw a steady stream of releases get the shaft regarding bonus features on DVD, even though these features could fit on the DVD and were on the Blu-ray. At first it seemed like one or two things would be "BD exclusive" but with Up and Princess and the Frog, this practice hit a shameless low regarding the number of things left off the DVD. So this is what turned me "negative" about the format - the feeling that if it didn't exist, the DVD for these films would have been better.

Of course, being mostly a Disney fan, I pay attention the their releases the most, but I'm noticing other studios starting to adopt the same underhanded tactics. Such as the recent Sound of Music and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang "combo packs", with one version in, as Luke eloquently puts it, "deceptive DVD packaging", for sale in the DVD section, yet with the bonus features only available on a blu-ray disc even though these features are in standard definition and were on the original DVDs, which were put out of print to make way for the new combos. Shameless!

I could go on and on, so I'll just say I really appreciate your post and wish more BD fans could see it the way you do. And more importantly, I wish the studios would actually take your suggestions to heart!

milojthatch wrote:You know what is sad? How bare bones many Blu Ray releases are. Case in point? Disney really messed up on "Fantasia" with not have any of the original DVD extras and have meager extras that were included. The new Blu release of the holiday classics like "Rudolph the Red Noise Reindeer" had some fun extras on their original DVD's, yet have nothing on the Blu Ray. The Blu release of "The Never Ending Story" had nothing of the original merger extras from the DVD. They had a chance to have some really great extras, including the music video and dropped the ball. I could go on here, but I think my point is made. If we are suppose to adopt this new format, they can't have weak releases.

Great point, milojthatch. If I was a BD collector, I'd be royally ticked off at the shoddy Fantasia release leaving all the classic bonus features from the excellent Anthology set as only available via "BD-Live" and not as disc-based features.

Another thing that would concern me if I collected BD is the relative lack of titles available on BD compared to DVD. Just out of curiousity, I counted my DVDs the other day and was curious how many were available on Blu-ray. Less than 5 percent were!

Granted, I know all new major studio films will be out on the format, but I'm more into catalog titles. And if I ever DID get into Blu-ray enough to want to upgrade my entire collection (like I did from VHS to DVD) it would be a LONG time before even a simple majority of my collection would be available on the format.

I also collect a lot of "souvenir travelogue" type of DVDs since I love to travel (such as the WDW theme park souvenir DVDs and plenty of others). Most of these are independently published outside of the "major studio system", and I've seldom seen any of these type of titles that are in my collection available on BD. (the only one I can think of is the recent Travel Channel Disney theme parks boxed set that Aaron reviewed for UD, and even there the BD left off half of the programs that are on the DVD)

So it's kind of hard to get excited about a format when so much of what I would want to buy is not available on the format.

One last thing that 2099net kind of touched on when discussing including the digital copy in a disc count.

Remember the "good ole days" when if you had a "4 disc set" you were in for a real treat full of HOURS AND HOURS worth of bonus features spread out over multiple disc? I miss those days.

Now it could just mean Disc 1 for the BD, Disc 2 for the 3D BD, Disc 3 for the DVD, and disc 4 for the Digital copy! If you are only into one format (regardless of which one it is) and would prefer to have the other discs filled with bonus features instead, instead you get 3 discs that are completely redundant and repetitive.

Agreed. These were my biggest peeves before I started buying blu-rays and the biggest issue I had with them. These are why I resented them so bad early on. I definitely feel the pain of DVD-only buyers.

The one I do want to comment on is in regards to Digital Copies. GET RID OF DIGITAL COPY DISCS! They are pointless and a waste of space and money. If some studios can provide a digital copy by code-only why can't all the studios do that?

One thing I think you should add with pricing is Disney's Deluxe DVD BS. Withholding DVD features on the DVD-only release and putting it on the DVD+Digital Copy release is a rip-off. One has to pay for a digital copy to get something that could fit on the DVD-only release (both only contain 1 DVD). The Deluxe DVD costs almost as much as a combo pack. If I were able to do this all over again I would have bought Bolt and Up combo packs instead of Deluxe DVDs. Unfortunately at the time Blu-ray wasn't even a consideration for me.

On that note, I think DVD prices and Blu-ray prices in general need re-evaluating.

2099net wrote:As for slipcovers, I just don't see the point of them when they reproduce the case cover - even if they do include foil stamping, embossing or other enhancements. I only really see a need for them if their design is considerably different than the normal case. In which case, it probably is worth keeping them for subsequent production runs.

I totally agree that slipcovers should differ in some notable way from the underlying cover art!

The_Iceflash wrote:One thing I think you should add with pricing is Disney's Deluxe DVD BS. Withholding DVD features on the DVD-only release and putting it on the DVD+Digital Copy release is a rip-off. One has to pay for a digital copy to get something that could fit on the DVD-only release (both only contain 1 DVD). The Deluxe DVD costs almost as much as a combo pack. If I were able to do this all over again I would have bought Bolt and Up combo packs instead of Deluxe DVDs. Unfortunately at the time Blu-ray wasn't even a consideration for me.

It seems like Disney has done away with the Deluxe DVD option. As of now, it's either DVD, DVD + Blu-ray, or DVD + Blu-ray + DC. The DC option may even be getting phased out with it not being provided on Secretariat.

Maybe I missed it, but I'm suprised you left out: A movie's DVD release shall not be staggered behind its Blu-ray release with the intention of selling more Blu-rays.