Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

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Escapay
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Post by Escapay »

Goliath wrote:Well, let me say this on The Last Crusade:

It was a complete rehash of the first film's plot, only weaker and dumber. Search for long lost Biblical artifact? Check. Nazi's looking for it, too? Check. Going from clue to clue to clue to find said artifact? Check. Nazi's defeated by the very same thing they wanted? Check. It's the same film all over again, only the nazi's are turned into clowns (Indy getting Hitler's autograph? Really?) and so is Indy's sidekick Marcus (who was a smart guy in the first film but is a buffoon in this one). Sean Connery as Indy's father is possibly the worst about the film. It results in corny jokes and stupid endless bickering, which effectively kills all the excitemint in every supposedly dangerous situation. And don't even get me started on that worthless beginning with the young Indy, where he picks up all his current habits and character traits in less than 10 minutes... :roll:
I agree with about half of this. I like Sean Connery too much to dislike his Henry Senior role, and I think the concept of the prologue was good, but unnecessary for this movie (which is why I loved the tv series that came later). Actually wrote more or less the same thing a couple years ago:
A long time ago in a thread not so far away, Escapay wrote:Temple of Doom is far from the weakest of the trilogy. Sure, it took unused concepts of Raiders and gave the franchise a darker turn, along with a female companion that's too annoying for words, and a kid who is unnecessary to the story (but is a great way for viewers to live vicariously with Indy, as we all imagine that we could be Short Round). But it's a lot more enjoyable than Last Crusade, which I feel is the weakest, it suffers from the following:

-Not Enough Action - yes, there are some memorable sequences, and no, a film like Indy Jones doesn't have to be action after action. But when compared to Raiders and Temple, Last Crusade is surprisingly lighter.

-Too Many Nazis - almost sounds like the name of a really bad musical, doesn't it? But the Nazi concept was already done in Raiders and while it *just barely* works in Last Crusade, the Nazis didn't need to be used *again*. Especially since they're empty villains here (who pretty much are the lackeys of Donovan), compared to the real threat they were in Raiders.

-It's Raiders 2.0 - back to the Nazis again. Their incentive for getting the Grail, and Indy's incentive to stop them, is essentially Raiders, but you substitute an Old Testament relic with a New Testament relic.

-Indy Doesn't Get The Girl - I know it would have been cliched if Elsa lived and turned good. But that's exactly what the story needed, because the Indy movies are based on the old serials where you expect a happy ending. The reconciliation between Indy and his dad is satisfying, but not satisfying enough because it's pretty much an action/adventure movie staple for the guy to get the girl.

-The Dumbing Down of Marcus - for a guy who appears to be very "with it" in Raiders, they've turned him into a buffoon that serves as comic relief for the few scenes he's in. <strike>Also, with the whole prologue showing that Indy and Marcus are near the same age, it is suddenly very jarring now to see Indy and Marcus when they're adults, as Marcus has always been visibly older.</strike> I later was told it's not Marcus, but a friend named Herman Mueller. All this time, I thought it was Marcus. Silly Scaps!

-The Prologue - I love the prologue, I really do. It's a great way to showcase Indy's beginnings (especially since the TV series wasn't conceived yet), and has a great performance from River Phoenix (who played Harrison Ford's son in The Mosquito Coast - hey, that's another film to add to your list, Panfan!). But beyond establishing the tense relationship Indy had with his father, as well as where he got the hat, the whip, and the scar, it's really not necessary to The Last Crusade, at least not as one large chunk in the beginning of the film. Had they spread it out into "flashbacks" Indy has (perhaps along with additional material beyond that one brief adventure), it might work better. But it's otherwise just filler.

There's probably a few more reasons why I'm not fond of The Last Crusade but I think those cover the main stuff. And made this post longer than necessary.
I had written that before I saw Crystal Skull, and were I to rank the Indy movies today based solely on my own favoritism, it'd probably be this:

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984)
"The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" (1992-1993, 1994-1996)
Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008 )
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989)

I still need to get the Young Indy DVDs, but they're mad expensive and unfortunately, not often to be found in stores anymore, so I'd have to order them online.

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Post by Barbossa »

Escapay wrote:I still need to get the Young Indy DVDs, but they're mad expensive and unfortunately, not often to be found in stores anymore, so I'd have to order them online.

albert
I was lucky enough to get all three sets. I agree, they are hard to find in stores now.

My biggest gripe with Crystal Skull was the jungle chase sequence - too comically over-the-top - and that includes the monkey swinging, fencing between vehicles etc. C'mon, they could've put that jungle cutter to much better use by wood-chipping a Ruskie Fargo-style. A guy got taken out with a propeller in Raiders, a rock crusher in Temple, and a tank in Crusade (or decapitated by a skil saw blade). Skull lacked a gruesome bad guy exit.
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Post by jpanimation »

I always felt Raiders of the Lost Arc was the best, closely followed by The Last Crusade. Then we drop way off a cliff where Crystal Skull sits and Temple of Doom even below that.
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Post by SmartAleck25 »

Barbossa wrote:
Escapay wrote:I still need to get the Young Indy DVDs, but they're mad expensive and unfortunately, not often to be found in stores anymore, so I'd have to order them online.

albert
I was lucky enough to get all three sets. I agree, they are hard to find in stores now.

My biggest gripe with Crystal Skull was the jungle chase sequence - too comically over-the-top - and that includes the monkey swinging, fencing between vehicles etc. C'mon, they could've put that jungle cutter to much better use by wood-chipping a Ruskie Fargo-style. A guy got taken out with a propeller in Raiders, a rock crusher in Temple, and a tank in Crusade (or decapitated by a skil saw blade). Skull lacked a gruesome bad guy exit.
I'm thinking death by evil army ants, and making someone's head explode.
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Post by Barbossa »

SmartAleck25 wrote:
Barbossa wrote:I was lucky enough to get all three sets. I agree, they are hard to find in stores now.

My biggest gripe with Crystal Skull was the jungle chase sequence - too comically over-the-top - and that includes the monkey swinging, fencing between vehicles etc. C'mon, they could've put that jungle cutter to much better use by wood-chipping a Ruskie Fargo-style. A guy got taken out with a propeller in Raiders, a rock crusher in Temple, and a tank in Crusade (or decapitated by a skil saw blade). Skull lacked a gruesome bad guy exit.
I'm thinking death by evil army ants, and making someone's head explode.
There are those two deaths, but they don't feel or look as gruesome because they were done with CGI.
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Post by Jilted »

I think Indiana Jones lost their charm with the last movie....a future one is just sad in my opinion...
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Post by Goliath »

Jilted wrote:I think Indiana Jones lost their charm with the last movie....a future one is just sad in my opinion...
Well, that's what's going with currently with actors and directors/producers who had their biggest successes in the 1980's. They just can't let it go. Instead of trying something new and original, they rather play it safe and reanimate franchises that had ended 20 years ago. Recently it has been the new Predator film, and before it was Stallone with his Rocky and Rambo-films, Harrison Ford not leaving Indy alone and now Bruce Willis has said he wants to make two more Die Hard-movies... even though the last one sucked like few movies in history have ever sucked. At some point, there have been talks of a fourth Godfather or Back to the Future, but luckily that never came into being.
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Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by HarryCanyon »

Since last year's buy-out, i think Disney and Paramount should join forces to do the next movie and have a new Indy but who should play Ford's role? i think Ryan Gosling should do the part.
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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by Escapay »

I'd rather see another movie with Ford (now 71) donning the fedora. But, if they decide to take the franchise in a different direction, they have three possibilities:

1. Reboot entirely with a new actor playing Indiana Jones, creating a new "canon" that disregards the 1981-2008 film/television franchise.

2. A "midquel" series of movies set between 1938 and 1957, thus taking place between Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Just throwing this out there, but Harrison Ford turned 47 the summer that Last Crusade was released, and Sean Patrick Flanery (who played Indy, aged 16-21, in "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles") is now 47. At long last, young Indiana Jones has turned old enough to once again play Indiana Jones. ;)

3. A "prequel" series of movies set between 1920 and 1935, thus taking place between the last "Young Indiana Jones" telemovie (Hollywood Follies) and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (which was, as few realized, a prequel to Raiders of the Lost Ark). This would allow for a young, twenty-to-thirty-something actor to take the role.

Just don't give us Johnny Depp as Sallah, and keep Shia LaBeouf away from the franchise entirely.

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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by HarryCanyon »

Great ideas so far.
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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by milojthatch »

I like your last two ideas the best Albert. But I'd love to see a fifth (and final?) Indy film with Mr. Ford if it's possible. From what I gather, the hold up may be George Lucas himself. Anyway, this was the last things I had read on the topic:

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/01/d ... ana-jones/

http://news.moviefone.com/2013/08/06/ha ... a-jones-5/
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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by HarryCanyon »

How about also ignoring the events of Indy 4?
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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by disneyboy20022 »

HarryCanyon wrote:How about also ignoring the events of Indy 4?

That might work, also given Shia LaBeouf burned bridges with Harrison Ford and Steven Spielberg after Shia said they dropped the ball on Indiana Jones 4. Here's the quote of an article I found

In an interview with the Los Angeles Times in 2010, the actor, who was 23 at the time, said he and director Steven Spielberg "dropped the ball" on the fourth installment of the Indiana Jones franchise, "The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull." That interview did not sit well with the director or Shia's co-star Harrison Ford, who later called LaBeouf "a f--cking idiot." Ouch. Two years later, Shia revealed that he "deeply regretted" making those comments and that Spielberg gave him a talking to: "He told me there's a time to be a human being and have an opinion, and there's a time to sell cars. It brought me freedom, but it also killed my spirits because this was a dude I looked up to like a sensei."
Here's the link

http://omg.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/9 ... 00925.html

I would like to request we only talk about Shia's statements in the article, and not focus on any other aspects of it.


EDIT

Actually it was George Lucas who came up with the Alien aspects of Indy 4. Steven Spielberg wasn't sold on it but out of respect he went with it If I remember correctly. A few years Later though, Spielberg I thought might have had some remorse over the decision.

The Problem I had with it wasn't so much Shia, but mainly all the build up for a horrible climax
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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by HarryCanyon »

Maybe have a better writer this time.
Last edited by HarryCanyon on Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by Barbossa »

I met Sean Patrick Flannery earlier this year at our local comic expo. He was here with his fellow Boondock Saints costar Norman Reedus. I asked Sean if he knew anything if the mouse house is planning to do anything with Indy, even if just his show was hitting Blu-ray, but he hasn't heard a thing. I told him it was getting quite tiresome that all the focus has been put on Star Wars, and Indy has pretty much been swept under the rug. He got a chuckle out of that. Blew me away that he's already 47.
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Re: Any plans to do Indiana Jones 5?

Post by HarryCanyon »

Yes poor Indy needs more attention even if SW is the bigger Lucasfilm franchise but Indy will always be second.
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Disney now acquired Indiana Jones rights

Post by HarryCanyon »

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/12/06/d ... ana-jones/

Sounds awesome we'll get Indy 5 soon besides SW 7 which includes some of Lucasfilm's other properties! now the circle of complete and maybe soon we can get an animated show plus new games and maybe even have him in Disney Infinity and in a future Kingdom Hearts game (just imagine Sora with Donald and Goofy joining along with Indy to fight Mola Ram since Mola loves to rip hearts out) and even a couple of more Indy attractions at the parks plus new merchandise.

I hope the new movie ignores the disappointing Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and make something more about exploring and all that plus no aliens, make it based on Fate Of Atlantis.

Just imagine the opening to the movie with Lucasfilm logo then with a live-action opening of a European castle with the words Disney Pictures on it then the credits.
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Re: Disney now acquired Indiana Jones rights

Post by DisneyJedi »

But... Didn't Disney already have the rights to Indiana Jones when they bought Lucasfilm?
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Re: Disney now acquired Indiana Jones rights

Post by HarryCanyon »

Well yes but for rights to distribute future movies as they got the rights away from Paramount yet Paramount owns the 4 existing Indy movies and Disney will do on merchandise, films, TV show etc. rights.
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Re: Disney now acquired Indiana Jones rights

Post by Chernabog_Rocks »

With no offense to Harrison Ford intended, I think it would be interesting to see them go back to a younger Indy. Maybe they could get Sean Patrick Flannery to reprise the role, that way it doesn't change to someone totally new to the role. Plus, going back to younger Indy means we can ignore Shia's character completely.
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