DVDizzy Forum

Hey there
What a interesting topic of discussion. I was reading a comment made by Tommy Kirk, concerning his termination from Disney over his homosexual lifestyle. The statement basically said that the Disney company was homophobic and terminated his contract when his lifestyle became more prominently known. On the other side, it has been said, that he was let go because, he was having a relationship with a 15 year old boy and was using drugs. Tom Tryon, the actor who played lead in the TEXAS JOHN SLAUGHTER series, was rumored to have been let go by the company because he too was homosexual. It really struck me odd, for a company that is widely known now to be very gay-friendly, was at one time not. Clearly, at a time when the company that was at one of it's highest commercial and creative zeniths! they did not have this policy. I I was just curious if anyone, knew what the "old" Disney mentality was or if there was any truth to these rumors.

i think that the whole world was homophobic back then. heck, it was and still is illegal to be gay in many places. i dont think it was solely a disney issue, but something faced by gays in every type of employment.

its only within the last 20 years that gays have become an acceptable part of society and no longer considered akin to lepers. in some places they are still not given as many rights as straight people are, but it is getting better with the allowance of marriage/civil unions between same sex couples becoming more commonplace.

i work with a 24 year old girl. im the same age as her, and also a female... when i started the job i was honest about who i am... i had just split with my girlfriend and consider myself to be bi at the very least.
she is scared of gays, and, as i found out a few days ago, had tried to spread a rumour about a former male co worker, saying he was gay. he has been with his girlfriend for 18 months. so homophobia still exists and is alive and well among the closed minded people. it will never entirely go away.

Tommy's contract was dropped due to his un-ethical behavior (having an affair with a 15 year old while he was 23, drugs, etc) becoming a liability to the company.

http://www.originalmmc.com/tomkirk.html

Wow! that is pretty scandalous! and shows how self-destruction can ruin a career. The article ( in my interpretation) seems to say that the studio and Walt himself knew of Kirk's lifestyle, and, as long as he did not create scandal by it, there was no problem. Would be very interesting to really know from someone who was there, the general attitude towards the subject. It was a "hush hush" topic in the 1950's/60's, but, it really intrigues me to know how other actors in the same situation were treated.

The_Iceflash wrote:Tommy's contract was dropped due to his un-ethical behavior (having an affair with a 15 year old while he was 23, drugs, etc) becoming a liability to the company.

http://www.originalmmc.com/tomkirk.html

I think that is fair. If he had sex with some one underaged.

Well, didn't Donald, Joe Carioca and Donald Duck come out in The Three Caballeros?

Oh, and there is no such thing as a "gay lifestyle".

no one ever wonders "was Warner Bros homophobic?" just because Disney is entertainment aimed at children.

Yes they were homophobic, but guess what, so was everybody else. Watch "the Celluloid Closet", a fascinating documentary on the subject. excellent film.

Goodness, it's scary how many would try to demonize a man that has been dead for almost 45 years! Sexim, racism, anti-Semitism (did I spell that right?). Poor Walt!


It wouldn't be too much of a stretch Walt had his own prejudices that were prevalent. I mean, come on, he lived in an era where ethnic minorities, women, gays and etc....Had little to no rights but I doubt he was some hardcore bigot or anything like Archie Bunker from All in The Family or if he hated Jews.....Regardless of what Family Guy believes

I have to admit though I'm gay and kind of tire of hearing people go on and on about Walt Disney and said comany being racist, sexist, homophobic and etc....There's no disputing there's a possibility he may have been all that but to such extremes? I really doubt it.

Some make it sound like he was some hardcore Neo-Nazi, part of the KKK or any popular hate group. It's really disgusting

All of this is my own personal opinion, I didn't bother to read the original post.

"Even more than MGM, Disney [in the early 1960s] was the most conservative studio in town....They were growing aware. They weren't stupid. They could add two and two, and I think they were beginning to suspect my homosexuality. I noticed people in certain quarters were getting less and less friendly....In 1963 Disney didn't renew my option and let me go. But Walt let me return to do the final Merlin Jones movie, 'The Monkey's Uncle,' because those were moneymakers for the studio."
Tommy Kirk


That is a quote posted on IMDB.com, made by Kirk. I posted the thread, because, I was curious in knowing if things like this happened often at the Disney studio. Especially, when other actors were homosexual. I did not mean to offend anyone with the post.

As for someone saying that there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. I am not sure what intention you have by making that comment. But, I did not mean to be politically incorrect. I guess instead of referring to a "homosexual lifestyle", I should have stated, "having the preference of feeling affection and sexual desire for someone of the same gender". Hope that clears everything up.

Okay!
first and foremost, I do not think my original post in anyway tried to "demonize" Walt Disney personally, nor did it attempt in anyways to "demonize" the company. I simply asked a question, and information about the subject. I simply stated that it was something that I was curious in knowing about and wanted to know the company's attitude. As for the comment about the Celluloid Closet, I agree it is a great documentary and very informative, but, I don't think it covered Disney.....did it? and afterall, this is a DISNEY forum. Therefore, I posted a question that was relevant to Disney, in a Disney forum.....not a Warner Bros. forum. [/quote]

PatrickvD wrote:no one ever wonders "was Warner Bros homophobic?" just because Disney is entertainment aimed at children.

Yes they were homophobic, but guess what, so was everybody else. Watch "the Celluloid Closet", a fascinating documentary on the subject. excellent film.

What?[/b]

justcuttinhair wrote:Okay!
first and foremost, I do not think my original post in anyway tried to "demonize" Walt Disney personally, nor did it attempt in anyways to "demonize" the company. I simply asked a question, and information about the subject. I simply stated that it was something that I was curious in knowing about and wanted to know the company's attitude. As for the comment about the Celluloid Closet, I agree it is a great documentary and very informative, but, I don't think it covered Disney.....did it? and afterall, this is a DISNEY forum. Therefore, I posted a question that was relevant to Disney, in a Disney forum.....not a Warner Bros. forum.

It wasn't exactly toward you. It just seems there a lot of people who hate Disney in general that seem to find fault with a dead corpse with their 21st century mind set. Granted, there are reasons why some people not like Disney (they truly are money-grubbing pigs in many aspects) but it's usually for stupid reasons.

So yeah, it wasn't directed toward you.

justcuttinhair wrote:As for someone saying that there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. I am not sure what intention you have by making that comment. But, I did not mean to be politically incorrect. I guess instead of referring to a "homosexual lifestyle", I should have stated, "having the preference of feeling affection and sexual desire for someone of the same gender". Hope that clears everything up.

I made the comment about "the gay lifestyle", because that's used as a codeword by mostly conservative politicians/media figures to paint homosexuality as a choice. (While all reasonable people know it's something you are or are not.) I'm not saying you meant it that way, but I felt the need to point that out, even though I'm not gay myself. (Well, I am happy, but...)

Well I am gay, and to compare my comments to those made by politicians or media outlets...is a bit confusing and somewhat insulting. I did not think my post was trying to demean or discredit anyone. I simply asked a question.

ive been doing a bit more thinking about this. i think this also relates to whether disney is racist [either the man or the company... they are one and the same]

people say song of the south is racist... same with the character from fantasia, and i saw another example on the silly symphonies collection, but cant recall which short. same with enid blytons noddy series featuring a gollywog.

i dont think that including black characters makes the subject racist, merely reflecting the truth as it was at that point in time.

if nothing else, people are bound by the rules of the time. if it was popular for women to only ride a horse side saddle, then thats what was depicted in the movies [mary poppins?] if men took their hats off inside, same again. women only wore dresses, children were polite and respectful... etc.

so if it was "bad" to be gay and blacks were only doing certain jobs, then thats what the public was shown. acceptablity changes all the time... theres no way a movie from the 30s can reflect the way we see things today and can only come across as offensive to someone, somewhere. when smoking maybe one day gets outlawed, then the films of today will offend someone whose ancestor died of a smoking related illness.

now, i dont know any black people, but i wouldnt be surprised if it was some bigwig somewhere that decided gollywogs and song of the south were offensive and made the decision for everyone. thing are reversing now anyway... gollys are popular for toy collectors and i wouldnt be shocked if he returned to noddy stories. therefore, i also believe will will see unedited fantasia one day and song of the south as well.

Justcuttinhair,

I think people are being critical of you because you seem quick to side with Tommy Kirk's belief that he was fired over being gay in your OP, nevermind the fact that he was involved in illegal activity.

A family company like Disney is not gonna overlook stuff like drug use and sexual relations with a minor. Otherwise all those pedophiles would still be working at WDW.

And Kirk seemed to have the perfect scapegoat since the minor was the same sex as him.

Unlike the racial controversies there's not a whole lot of information out there in regards to Disney's past policies towards gays. I dont really see Disney as being gay friendly but rather gay appealing. A company like Disney I imagine would remain neutral on the issue today and would try to market to everyone without being exclusive or creating controversy.

In response to toonaspie:

Ok, I am a bit lost in why you think I am "siding" with Tommy Kirk. If you would be good enough to go back and read my first post. I clearly, asked, if the rumors of his drug use and relationship with a minor were to blame for his termination. I also included, the quote made by Kirk, that stated, he felt he was let go simply because he was homosexual. I wanted to know, if anyone knew the TRUTH. Also, if you would be good enough to read my reply to user The_Iceflash comments, you will read how I agreed that it was a scandalous act and sad that his choices ruined his career. Before, you begin to make comments on what I support and don't support, I would think it prudent to read and try to comprehend, what the original comments stated. Gay appealing or gay friendly? Umm, well, is it appealing or friendly whenever the company hosts "Gay Days" at it's themeparks? Just curious

sunhuntin wrote:people say song of the south is racist...

Where's the *Raises Hand* smiley?

sunhuntin wrote:i dont think that including black characters makes the subject racist, merely reflecting the truth as it was at that point in time.

Well, times have changed and like I mentioned in the Song of the South thread, black people have found the film insulting for many decades. Since at least the 1970's. Do fans of this movie or Disney historians think black people got together in groups at that time and allowed one person to brainwash them into thinking the film is offensive. The film is offensive and represents the worst qualities of black education of the time. Nor does the film teach anyone anything about life, it's just more childish parables for children who ask very few questions. I have changed my mind about one thing - it deserves to be seen. The last time I talked about the movie, I said it should basically be kept in the vaults. The Treasures collection would be a good way to release the movie. And God knows there are things equally as offensive in other movies. Equally as silly and lame-brained ("Casey At the Bat" being a full-on culture shock for me when I bought Make Mine Music on VHS back in '05). And of course, the clothing and lifestyles of the characters. All the smoking and old-fashioned humor.

But racism isn't just an implying of hatred toward black people. It's the reinforcement of simplistic stereotypes that black people are lazy and/or stupid. When I watch the film, the black people look about as good as the white people do - only in different ways. Certainly there's nothing more obnoxious here about the live-action black people in Song of the South as there was about Bobby Driscoll in Melody Time or the kittens in The Aristocats.

Lazario wrote: But racism isn't just an implying of hatred toward black people. It's the reinforcement of simplistic stereotypes that black people are lazy and/or stupid.

Racism
–noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Goliath wrote:Well, didn't Donald, Joe Carioca and Donald Duck come out in The Three Caballeros?

Oh, and there is no such thing as a "gay lifestyle".

didn't know there were two Donalds in that film.