DVDizzy Forum

I know it's very belated after my trip, but decided I would share and post my recent pictures from my trip to Magic Kingdom. It was a wonderful time and we also went to Epcot, but I didn't get to take a whole lot of pictures there. Here's my favorites from the trip.

Roy O. Disney and Minnie Mouse


Roy Disney's Dedication of Walt Disney World


Adventureland





Fantasyland













I love the Crump-errific clock











Frontierland



Trixie - The Tampa Temptation


Swingin' Teddi Barra


The Five Bear Rugs


Terrence - The Vibrating Wreck From Nashville Tech


Liberty Square



Yay! The Mansion waits!



Tombstone tributes to Wathel Rogers - WED and the Mansion's audio-animatronics programmer and designer; and Marc Davis - the attraction's art director and character designer, and former animator.


Tributes to Marc, and X. Atencio - the attraction's show and script writer and lyricist, and former animator; Bill Martin - layout designer and master planner; and Dave Burkhart - concept model maker.




Tribute to Yale Gracey - head special effects designer and illusioneer, and former animation layout designer.


Tributes to Gordon Williams - head of WED sound dept and the mansion's sound editor; Chuck Myall - architect and set designer; and Cliff Huet - architect and set decorator.


Tribute to Fred Joerger - concept model maker and faux rockwork designer.


Tribute to Bob Sewell - former head of the WED model shop and concept model maker.


Tribute to Claude Coats - atmospheric, concept, and track layout designer, and former animation background painter.


Tribute to Leota Toombs - audio-animatronics make-up designer and wigmaker, concept model maker, and the face of Madame Leota and face and voice of Little Leota.


Abigale Patecleaver's portrait in the chicken exit hallway.


Alexander Nitrokoff's portrait in the chicken exit hallway.


Lily on the highwire.


Conservatory


Exit Tombs

Great pics Tim !

The SWSA ride looks like it has a lot more content than the one in Paris. (Which is the only one I've ever been to since HKDL doesn't have one.), I hope to see it myself, hopefully before they replace it with a BATB ride.

I love how you pay attention at all the interesting little details through out the park, Tim. I'm like that BTW, I always notice everything, it's the little things in life that make it so intriguing.

what's the exit chicken hallway? I mean why it's called that?

Great job, very enjoyable!

Like Jack Skellington said, I like how you caught a lot of the design details that make the parks special (that a lot of people probably don't even notice in their rush to get to the major attractions). Details like the Roy/Minnie Statue, Dedication Plaque, Tiki Totems, chess game in perpetual "check", Castle mosiacs, Philharmagic preshow posters, Donald in the gift shop which continues the theme of the finale, Snow White mural, Country Bear paintings, etc.

I particularly like how you got the Cinderella fountain picture at exactly the right angle to show how the crown fits Cinderella's head.

Thanks for sharing!

It's a small world that music will drive you crazy.

Thank you so much for the compliments every one! I'm glad you're liking the pictures so far.

Whenever my gf and I go to the parks together, we always love to take our time too and stop and notice the little details. I never understand why so many people rush through the park to try and "get everything done." We went at our own pace, and we managed to do Pirates, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, and Snow White all twice, went on the Haunted Mansion four times, and Country Bear Jamboree, Jungle Cruise, the Liberty Belle, Small World, Peter Pan, and Carousel of Progress once. We only didn't get to do Space Mountain and the TTA since they were closed. So we always manage to do a fair amount in one day, yet we always take our time to stop and rest and eat, or browse through the shops. Both of us feel our trips are some of the most magical times together.

Super Aurora wrote:what's the exit chicken hallway? I mean why it's called that?

There are two ways you can find it. After you leave the stretch rooms, in the loading area/hall there's a door on your right that says "For those too full of fear, exit here." Mostly it's a hallway used by parents if their children have been too scared by the stretch room and want to leave before boarding their Doom Buggies, hence "chicken exit."

The hallway itself is rather narrow, but it's very detailed like the rest of the mansion. It has gas lamp like fixtures, chandeliers, and has the original Marc Davis paintings of the Alexander Nitrokoff and Abigale Patecleaver stretching portraits. You walk down the hall to a door that exits right out into the exit hallway of the ride that goes right by the crypts at the exit.

My gf and I really wanted to see it since I heard about it and wanted to take pictures of the original Davis paintings. We asked one of the Mansion CMs late at night after the crowds had died down if we could see it, and he was nice enough to allow us to see it through the exit door and take pictures inside, and allowed us to go through the door into the loading area to get on the ride afterwards.

It's a small world that music will drive you crazy.

You know, a lot of people say that, but I actually love the music and all the country instrumental variations on the theme. I actually listen to the soundtrack multiple times with a big happy grin on my face.

Amazing pictures, Tim- you seem like an excellent photographer!!! Seriously, I've been to WDW so many times, but your pictures were like seeing it for the first time. Well, not really the first time, but you captured everything really well. You know what I mean.

And something that has always bothered me (well, since 2004 anyway, lol) is: Why do the Cinderella murals look different from the movie? The park opened in 1971, so easily they could've looked like the Disney characters! Someone may have explained this to me before, but if so, I just don't remember.

blackcauldron85 wrote:Amazing pictures, Tim- you seem like an excellent photographer!!! Seriously, I've been to WDW so many times, but your pictures were like seeing it for the first time. Well, not really the first time, but you captured everything really well. You know what I mean.

And something that has always bothered me (well, since 2004 anyway, lol) is: Why do the Cinderella murals look different from the movie? The park opened in 1971, so easily they could've looked like the Disney characters! Someone may have explained this to me before, but if so, I just don't remember.

Thanks, Ames! I'm glad you liked the pictures!

I think the murals were chosen more to reflect the architectural style. Personally, I love Dorothea Redmond's work and her redesign of the characters into the 1500s/1600s style of art in the murals. Cindy's Castle at Disney World itself is based on various castles built in the 1500-1600s, so I think if they had simply done a Mary Blair style or a generic Disney Store style mural in the castle, it would just look unfitting to the theme and architecture of the castle. I personally like how it's sort of a new way of intrepreting the characters into the style for the castle, sort of imagining you're looking at tiles from the 1500/1600s and how the castle artists depicted Cinderella's story at the time after she wed Charming and moved into the castle.

Also another detail I loved that Redmond did, is that two of the characters in the mural are based on two of her fellow Imagineers who she worked closely with on the design of WDW.

I never made it to Haunted Mansion and Pirates because I couldn't find them maybe next time.

Also PrincePhillipfan, where that avatar and sig come from? Got a link for it?

I hope you can next time, bradhig. The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean are the top examples of Walt's era of creative Imagineering, and showcase just how talented people like Marc Davis, Claude Coats, Yale Gracey, Blaine Gibson, X Atencio, and others were in their area of expertise.

And about my siggy and avatar, I got it from over a friend I met at Doombuggies page. He runs a terrific Finnish and English websites dedicated to the Snow White's Scary Adventures rides, the Haunted Mansion, Phantom Manor, and the dark side of Snow White. He did a couple of wonderful photoshop illustrations too of the abandoned concept of the Prince being captured by the Queen. You can check them out there.

http://www.kennetti.fi/swscary_11.html

The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean are the top examples of Walt's era of creative Imagineering

The ones in Orlando are post-Walt era, but made by his same imagineers. The originals in Anaheim, were guided by Walt himself. But yes, I agree they are Disney classics everywhere they exist for a good reason.

dizfan wrote:

The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean are the top examples of Walt's era of creative Imagineering

The ones in Orlando are post-Walt era, but made by his same imagineers. The originals in Anaheim, were guided by Walt himself. But yes, I agree they are Disney classics everywhere they exist for a good reason.

That's true of Pirates, however Haunted Mansion were both identically made at the same time. Walt saw a lot of the Mansion before he passed away, but he died three years before it opened at Disneyland, so I'd say it's the first major attraction built and opened anyway in the post-Walt era. And actually when they were building Disneyland's version, they were building WDW's version as well, making two sets of everything, with the sets being shipped off to Florida to await the opening of the park, while the other set was shipped off to California. (In fact, the Mansion was the first completed attraction at Disney World, ready to open one year before even the rest of the park). So even though DL's Mansion opened first, both were built at exactly the same time.

However, you are right though that Pirates was opened later and definitely did not see the influence that the Disneyland version had at Walt. However, the WDW version of Pirates was led by Marc Davis, so I put a lot of his judgment into trust. I know many people don't like Florida's version compared to California, but after having been on both, I really don't see the big difference much. The queue at WDW is a lot more expansive and immersive than DL's, but at the same time WDW lacks the beauty of the Blue Bayou and the extended skeleton caverns. However, I can see Marc's judgment when he was working on WDW's version. He was never satisified with the skeleton caverns at DL and said he thought it was "too long until you got to the meat of the show," hence why they're trimmed so far down in Disney World. And Marc got to do the fitting finale he wanted at WDW that he felt lacked at DL.

Although now both finales at each ride are destroyed by Jack Sparrow any way.

PrincePhillipFan wrote:I know many people don't like Florida's version compared to California, but after having been on both, I really don't see the big difference much.

Really?! Wow. I've been on all 4 and the one in Orlando really is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to this particular attraction, even though it's still good.

I don't really understand what Marc meant with the ending not being good enough. Because in DL, it really adds something to end the ride by "going up the waterfall". Nothing about the ride in Florida is really better than the others, just the queue is amazing.

As for Mansion, it did open after Walt's death. But he worked on the specifics for this ride for years, from selecting his prefered facade to several shows scenes for the Disneyland version. Luckily, he got to see the actual mansion he selected built in the park a few years before his death. By saying that the Orlando one was duplicated still kind of gets my point across.

Maybe it's just me, but I personally never found WDW's Pirates lacking to me personally. After having been to DL, I admit that the bayou and added caverns are very beautiful, but their exclusion from WDW just never really phased me. As long as it has the main show from the battle to the finale, that's what matters most of me. So I guess I agree in Marc's respect that he always felt that the caverns were just uneeded filler until you get to the show. But that's just different stokes for different folks. The less Pirates doesn't phase me, but after being used to the gallery, library, and music parlor at WDW's Haunted Mansion, I always felt that those missing scenes at DL's version made the beginning of the ride seemed rather empty and very short. But as I said, it's just a matter of difference.

I agree with you though that I'm confused as to why Marc felt the finale at DL seemed rather a letdown. I really enjoyed the arsenal scene and felt it put a nice capper on the attraction, and I enjoyed the up the waterfall segment. Marc however said he always felt that the waterfall was very jarring, and rather boring to him, stating that he felt it was taking you out of the experience by going up a standard flume chain. But that's just his opinion and I enjoyed the "up the waterfall" part nonetheless.

As for Mansion, I'm not sure how much Walt actually saw before he passed away. He had many projects on his plate at that time that were more important to him (Walt Disney World, Epcot, finishing Pirates of the Caribbean, the Mineral King Resort project). All I can tell is that Walt selected the final facade from Ken Anderson's illustration, the idea of the stretching room and its portraits, the changing portrait hallway, and Rolly's Museum of the Weird idea were the only ones set in stone really. Marc had done plenty of concepts of various ideas for different rooms, like the library, music room, a kitchen, corridor of doors, and different vignettes for the ballroom, attic, and graveyard. But Walt had passed away before any could decision on what he really wanted in the ride other than the stretch and portrait hall rooms, and the general idea of a ballroom and graveyard. It was pretty much up to Marc and Claude Coats to decide on their own what to include and what not to include from their ideas. Even the idea to make it a ride thru still hadn't been decided yet when Walt had passed away. So I really think the Mansion was more of a project done by Marc and Claude themselves, with some of Walt's supervision, with Marc and Claude eventually deciding themselves what scenes to include and how to design the Mansions both at Disneyland and Disney World.

I hope you know that I'm not trying to bash either park or debating "which came first" or "which is better." Everybody has their own personal opinion on what they like. Personally, my vote for the best Pirates is at Disneyland, and the best Mansion is at Disney World (especially now after the enhanced rehab), but that's just my own personal opinion, and I'm sure others might like something else. I'm just trying to straighten out the facts about from what I've read on the creation of both attractions, and from interviews I've read and watched with Marc and Claude.

If we were trying to debate which version of these two attractions was better, we would not be talking about DL or WDW!

Just stated simple facts that there are the ones Walt worked on, then there are the ones that followed. My thoughts come from footage of Walt, interviews with imagineers and info from walkthrough tours of the attractions at the parks.

PrincePhillipFan wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I personally never found WDW's Pirates lacking to me personally. After having been to DL, I admit that the bayou and added caverns are very beautiful, but their exclusion from WDW just never really phased me.

I haven't been to any other park but WDW(mostly due to the fact we have relative that live near there) but I found the WDW Pirate ride pretty fun. I haven't experience the new one with Jack and Barbossa in it so I can't comment on that yet, but old WDW was great one. I find the Pirate in Adventure land way better and more fitting place than New Orleans (Since Pirates were in the CARIBBEAN). Still never really ever got Louisana and pirate concept.

PrincePhillipFan wrote: but after being used to the gallery, library, and music parlor at WDW's Haunted Mansion, I always felt that those missing scenes at DL's version made the beginning of the ride seemed rather empty and very short. But as I said, it's just a matter of difference.

But if the concept of the library and music parlor (I'm assuming Sinister 11 weren't included due to having changing portraits in DL) were some considerations for DL by Marc, why weren't they included?
And why did they originally scrap changing portraits for Sinister 11 for WDW? Were they actually were considered ideas for DL?

I remember you telling me that Dracula, Beard Man(formally as Rasuptin), The Couple, and The Villager were originally some concept ideas for changing portraits.

I believe December and Medusa are only two that made it in both concept.

dizfan wrote:If we were trying to debate which version of these two attractions was better, we would not be talking about DL or WDW!

I bet you'll say Paris' one for HM but what's Pirate's? Tokyo's?
As I said before, I haven't been to any other park but WDW, however from reading and seeing many info, pictures, and videos on Paris' I felt It took too much away of what the Haunted Mansion was aimed to be. It was ment to be a spooky yet fun and entertaining ride. I feel the Phantom Manor is too serious and dark that takes away what HM was originally aim to be. That's just me. SO, I'm with Philip that WDW is a great one.

Yes, I do feel that Phantom Manor is the most amazing version storywise and pretty much every other way. I love that the story of the mansion is so different and serious in tone, it must be the European flair. Good things come from doing things completley different, the same can be said with most of Disneyland Paris - the most beautiful Magic Kingdom.

When I first saw the streching room, and there was not only a hanging body but someone actually hanging that body, I knew this was a whole different animal. I love that you go underground in the graveyard, I love going into that Western ghost town, and I love the lord of the manor being throughout the ride.

With that said...

The last time I rode it, it was in terrible conditions. But it's original greatness still shines through, and one big refurbishment is all it needs.


I actually enjoy Pirates in Paris the best as well. Again, mostly because it's so different. And I love that they take your picture on the drop! The one in Tokyo is actually my third favorite. It's almost indentical to Disneyland's, but it only has one drop instead of two and some scenes vary.

Super Aurora wrote: I find the Pirate in Adventure land way better and more fitting place than New Orleans (Since Pirates were in the CARIBBEAN). Still never really ever got Louisana and pirate concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Lafitte
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barataria_Bay

Being from New Orleans, just something I'm aware of

As for the topic of which is better, I've only been on the US versions of the rides in question, but out of those I agree with Tim - I prefer Mansion at WDW and Pirates at DL. And I think Pirates at WDW is a better ride than people generally give it credit for.

Super Aurora wrote:But if the concept of the library and music parlor (I'm assuming Sinister 11 weren't included due to having changing portraits in DL) were some considerations for DL by Marc, why weren't they included?
And why did they originally scrap changing portraits for Sinister 11 for WDW? Were they actually were considered ideas for DL?

I remember you telling me that Dracula, Beard Man(formally as Rasuptin), The Couple, and The Villager were originally some concept ideas for changing portraits.

I believe December and Medusa are only two that made it in both concept.

The main decision came down basically to logicistics and how differently the workings of the ride are set up. Since New Orleans Square was built in such a confined corner of the park, the show building for the HM had to be placed outside the "berm" (perimeter of the park). At DL, the original intent of the stretch rooms are elevators that lower you down to the lower floor. From there you walk along the changing portrait corridor, which is actually a tunnel that takes you under the Disneyland Railroad tracks and to the show building outside the berm. The main reason why I've heard that the library and music room were cut from DL's version from Marc was a simple matter of space. Since DL is already crowded on space, both inside the park and outside the berm, they only had a certain amount of land for the show building, which meant that the library and music room scenes wouldn't work in the smaller building. So they were decided to be cut and guests simply ascend upwards to the endless hallway and start their trip from there.

At WDW however, space wasn't a problem since the Magic Kingdom was built bigger and they were starting from scratch. WDW's Mansion's show building is completely inside the berm of the park, all at one level. So technically the stretch room isn't needed since it stays on the same level, but everyone deemed it as such an important introduction to the show that they decided to keep it. Similiarly, no need for the changing portrait hallway was needed, so they decided to cut that and have guests walk straight to the loading area. However, they wanted to include a gallery scene in the ride, so they devised the Sinister 11 gallery. Since the Doom Buggies travelled at such a set rate, and since the original changing portraits worked more slowly, they thought the effect wouldn't come as quite convincing in the Doom Buggy. Hence they came up with the idea of a gallery full of portraits with eyes that could follow you based on a simple illusion, which became the Sinister 11. It wasn't until just two years ago as we saw that the Imagineers showed that the changing portraits can work correctly while being seen from the Doom Buggy, with the new fiber optics that they first used on DL's portraits in 2004.

Anyway, jumping back to the original '69 planning of WDW's mansion, since the show building was built inside the park, that meant the Imagineers had a lot more space they could use to add to the actual show. So this more availability of space not at DL lead them to using the stairwell, library, and music parlor scenes they had planned. It also changed the layout of Little Leota. At DL, they needed to get guests to return back up to ground level, so after guests unload from their Doom Buggies, they ascend up an escalator and pass Little Leota on their way. At WDW however, the escalator isn't needed, so the Imagineers also planned for her to be instead seen from the Doom Buggies at the very end of the room before unboarding.

As I said before, I haven't been to any other park but WDW, however from reading and seeing many info, pictures, and videos on Paris' I felt It took too much away of what the Haunted Mansion was aimed to be. It was ment to be a spooky yet fun and entertaining ride. I feel the Phantom Manor is too serious and dark that takes away what HM was originally aim to be. That's just me. SO, I'm with Philip that WDW is a great one.

That pretty much sums how I feel as well. From what I've seen from videos and hearing the soundtracks, Phantom Manor is a terrific ride and I enjoy it on its own merits. However, when compared to WDW, DL, and Tokyo's Mansions, I prefer the originals. I enjoy and appreciate the more dramatic storytelling of Phantom Manor, but I just prefer the original direction that Walt, Marc, and Claude had wanted to go with the mansion. I love it for its moments of eerie atmosphere that Claude worked on, laced with plenty of black humor and grim gags that Marc oversaw and directed. To me the Mansion, and its storyline of being a house that's teeming with spooks from around the world, some funny, some mysterious or frightening looking, just seems more mysterious and enjoyable to me.

dizfan wrote:I actually enjoy Pirates in Paris the best as well. Again, mostly because it's so different. And I love that they take your picture on the drop! The one in Tokyo is actually my third favorite. It's almost indentical to Disneyland's, but it only has one drop instead of two and some scenes vary.

I hope one day to be able to see the Pirates at Disneyland Paris myself. From what I've seen, it looks like the prettiest and most elaborate of the Pirates rides, and I love the new scenes of the burning fort and ship in the beginning of the attraction.

David S wrote:As for the topic of which is better, I've only been on the US versions of the rides in question, but out of those I agree with Tim - I prefer Mansion at WDW and Pirates at DL. And I think Pirates at WDW is a better ride than people generally give it credit for.

I think that WDW's Pirates often gets a bad rap too. It's the shortest Pirates ride, and no bayou and cut caverns, but I think it doesn't make it any less of an enjoyable ride or true to its nature. And, along with Paris' pirates, probably has one of the best and detailed queues for the attraction.