DVDizzy Forum

Hello I'm an A2 Media student and I for my next exam (which is in Januray) I am required to pick a question and research everything myself. Being a huge fan of Disney (particulary regarding their animated classics), I have decided that I want to look at the representation of women in Disney's Animated Classics (DAC). As this is a rather broad subjects I have decided to focus on what some call the "princess movies" i.e. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937), Cinderella (1950), Sleeping Beauty (1959), The Little Mermaid (1989), Beauty and the Beast (1991), Aladdin (1992), Pocahontas (1995) and Mulan (1998). I have choosen these because all but one (Aladdin) has a female in the lead. As well as looking at the representation of women in these films, I have also decided to look at the ratio of women in these films compared with Pixar's films from Toy Story (1995)-Wall-E (2008), as I believe there's an apparent lack of female characters in all of Pixar's movies to date (obviously I will mention that Pixar's first film of the fairytale genre(The Bear and the Bow) is set to be released in 2011 and this will be the first to have a female lead). I am using a variety of primary and secondary reasearch, and as one of my primary research methods I have decided to use a message board, to ask people what they think of the woman in these movies, and what better place to ask than Ultimate Disney!!! I would be very grateful for those who respond, so please don't hesitate to voice your opinions and discuss away........

These topics can help...

Positive or Negative Portrayal of Women in Animated Films?

women representation in disney animated films

Representation of women in Disney films......please help!

Women: Disney vs. Anime

Are the Disney Princesses Bad for our Children?

Disney, it is time for a black Princess!

albert

Thank you for the links I will certainly read these I can't wait to here people's opinion, ideas and attitudes towards this issue. BTW although I have stated the films I'm focusing on mainly, don't hesitate to mention other animated Disney films

Hi again, I was just wondering does no one have any views or opinions they would like to share on the topic? If so please do so, I would be very grateful, I have trailed through the links above which were very helpful to my investigation, however I need to gather my own reponses as this is part of my primary reasearch. (Crosses fingers for any response ) BTW just wondering has anyone read "Good Girls and Wicked Witches" by Amy M. Davis, I am currently in the processing of reading it as part of my secondary research and am really enjoying it

I am really unsure of this topic that you have chosen, to me it seems a bit odd. If you were looking at how women are portrayed in advertisments produced by one particular advertising company, and then took an advertisment from the the 1930s and other advertisements for the same company up until the end of the 1990's, you would be hard pressed to discern what that company thought of women. What you may see is the popular image that the media had at the time the ad was made.

The Disney cartoons and animated films are just entertainment and at best represent the period of film making of the time that they were made. I think that you are misled by the idea that just because a movie is named Cinderella that this in turn means the movie is being carried by the character. In fact in Cinderella it works because the mice are the central characters. In Snow White it is the Seven Drawfs who take up the majority of screen time.

Sleeping Beauty is a film where the heroine has some more active participation but the movie is also a product of the 1950'a and the three fairy's and the in-laws are also elements that take up the screen time.

Once we get to The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast we have movies that reflect a more modern idea of women and they are much stronger roles.

But the reality is that these are children's movies and the emphasis on all of them is to tell a simple story. Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty can all be summed up in a sentence or two. The plots are simple and only fleshed out by the funny supporting characters.

Movies like TLM, BATB, Pocahontas and Mulan reflect modern values but still have supporting characters that propel the story along. So the movies portray more stronger female leads, but so does any film made in the 90's.

I think that the Disney princesses though have much more personality than the Disney Prince's. Who in the early films have as much excitement as a damp cloth.

Hopefully you will do well with your paper, but I think that the topic is flawed and will at best show that society and movies as a reflection of society portray women differently than in the early years of film making. Which is just common knowledge.

My personal opinion (coming from a 20 year old Brit) is that the "princesses" and their respective films reflect the world that they were brought into. As you may or may not know, fairy-tales mostly originated from the oral tradition, being passed down from generation to generation before being written down by authors such as Charles Perrault (Cinderella, Puss in Boots etc), the Brothers Grimm (Hansel and Gretel, Snow White, Rapunzel etc) and Hans Christian Andersen (The Ugly Duckling, The Princess and the Pea, Thumbelina etc). As these authors captured down these folk-tales and recounts of the supernatural, they infused a part of their culture, society and self into them. Bluebeard, a story by Charles Perrault, has references to buying aristocratic titles (which occurred in France a lot in Perrault's day). Hansel and Gretel and others were edited to reflect more the Grimms' protestant and Germanic values (e.g. evil birth-mothers turned to evil stepmothers) and they ended up collecting retellings of Perrault's stories that had re-entered folklore (Little Red Riding Hood and Sleeping Beauty, for example). Meanwhile, Hans Christian Andersen took fragments from folklore and pretty much wrote new stories altogether, many with an autobiographical nature (The Ugly Duckling is a barnyard recreation of his rise to fame, The Little Mermaid is said to be a story about his repressed homosexual love for his best friend).

Likewise, Disney, when adapting such classics, has infused a spirit of the era and North American values into the traditional stories. A lot of the heroines seemed to have been influenced by popular actresses and pop-stars of the era they were made in. Snow White is hardly an independent figure. Cinderella, released in 1950, has a somewhat more independent heroine, and Sleeping Beauty from 1959 has a heroine even more independent, though at the end of the day, both Cindy and Sleepy still rely on men; essentially, there's hints that emancipation is starting to appear, but it's not that big yet. By the time that The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast etc appear, we can see that a lot has changed, as the heroines, although still somewhat anchored in romantic fairy-lore, have characters with a brain and a strong determination. Andersen's mermaid was a drippy waif, whereas she resembles a spunky teenager in Disney's version; they are both naive, but Disney makes a more accessible heroine.

As well, look at critical studies on Disney's use of fairy-tales. These links given here could be of use (this is from a site on the subject of fairy-tales):

http://surlalunefairytales.com/introduc ... tales.html

Also, what could be useful is to look at the original source materials. On that same site, there are annotated versions of the original, variants throughout folklore, illustrations by golden-age illustrators such Arthur Rackham and a gallery of modern interpretations. I'll give you links to the tales that Disney adapted:

http://surlalunefairytales.com/beautybeast/index.html
http://surlalunefairytales.com/cinderella/index.html
http://surlalunefairytales.com/littlemermaid/index.html
http://surlalunefairytales.com/sleeping ... index.html
http://surlalunefairytales.com/sevendwarfs/index.html

I'd also recommend looking (even just briefly) at other films with important female characters, such as Alice in Wonderland, Enchanted and Peter Pan. The women in Neverland, who range from around twelve to early twenties, all have a sexuality and love for Peter Pan of sorts (in particular Tinkerbell, who is completely infatuated with Peter). Alice, although a younger girl and not having any romantic interest, is a fairly strong character and compared to, say Cinderella, can stand up for herself or get cross like any normal girl would. And Enchanted is essentially a nostalgic/tongue-in-cheek commentary on Disney fairy-tales...

Wonderlicious wrote:Alice, although a younger girl and not having any romantic interest, is a fairly strong character and compared to, say Cinderella, can stand up for herself or get cross like any normal girl would.

Sorry, but did you forget Cinderella stood up for herself being able to go to the ball, and (though perhaps arguable) try on the slipper? And that she got cross, especially with Lucifer? And she has a brain, especially when you see how she eventually knows what her stepmother does to her and she thinks of how to stop Lucifer and get out of her locked room, and she has determination, being determined to keep believing, find happiness, and go to the ball, and marry the prince.

I would also say Cinderella is far more active than Sleeping Beauty or Snow White in her film. Many agree.

I find it weird how whenever the Disney women are analyzed the first one to get harpooned and criticized is Cinderella. They target Snow White sometimes, but Cindy always seems to get the worst of it. Snow White was the one constantly singing about a man coming her way. Cindy didn't even care that much, she just wanted to get out of the house and have fun!

I think she gets criticized a lot because her best features are so subtle that the only thing that stands out is her desire to go to a ball. Like Disney Duster mentioned, Cindy has a lot of things about her that make her a great character in the Disney canon.

While she is kind and sweet she has an edge to her that not all the princesses have. Like when she looked at the mice and said "Interrupt the..."music lesson". Then when she was in denial about not going to the ball, only to admit it after all. She has traits that make her a wonderful character.

I think the reason she gets criticized so much is because she envisions an image of femininity that some women HATE. Many women, especially young teenagers, feel as if they are trapped in a household that doesn't understand them, or take them for granted. Yet, they believe that they will achieve more in life, whether in terms of professional growth or relationship wise. When they realize that it doesn't come easy they realize that they've been tricked by a fairy tale. So when Cinderella appears in the scene it just inspires anger and hate. You know how people hate other people simply because they remind them of something that they HATE about themselves? I think the case might apply to Cinderella, and thus are now teaching young girls to be strong from the get go rather than he hopeful and optimistic.

To an extend, I understand why some women would hate Cinderella. The whole story is about a person being rewarded for their kindness and way of living. In short, its an extremely idealistic belief, one that doesn't happen in real life often. So, its wise to mix idealism with realism. But, how is keeping your daughter away from the princesses going to help that?

I think doing this might hurt them worse than if they stick to the princesses. I've always believed that parents should give their children enough freedom to enjoy what they like. Parents should still watch over them and educate them when the time comes, but they shouldn't be hovering over them and raise a shield whenever something comes their way. Doing this create bitter children that have anger towards their parents because rather than holding them by the hand and educating them through life they just raised a shield and told them that everything is evil. Or they create an adult that has a paranoid vision of life, and they try to pass that onto their kids.

So, while its admirable that there are women that want to help young girls avoid the pitfalls life might offer. But it might backfire is not done right.

I know I am rambling like crazy, but I'll finish this with something a MAN once said; femininity is not a weakness. Its a trait that defines certain women. Simply because some women are more feminine than others it doesn't make them any less powerful than the men she is "trying to please". Condemning it would be sending a wrong message, that the only way that a woman can be strong is by being a man.

Obviously feedback was not really important, will have to remember not to waste time next year.

Thank you to everyone that replied, I really am grateful, though my apoligies to this taking so long. I had thought that I'd already thanked you guys, and it wasn't until StitchExp626 PMed me saying I hadn't that I realised Sorry guys that was very rude of me, "begs forgiveness" Honestly I am truely grateful your reponses

Well, first of all I would recommend using substantial less films to study. If I were you, I would stick with Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty and Little Mermaid. This in itself will be a huge body of work. I'm doing a film studies, and we're used to only study two films at a time at most (to compare). If you want to involve the other films you mentioned as well. it will prove to be nearly impossible to do anything else than scratch the surface. Also, Mulan is not a princess, no matter how hard Disney tries to market this. The comparison with (*all*) Pixar movies will make it even more complicated. I would advise you only focus on the Disney nimaed Classics.

Your question is, I'm sorry to say, really vague. *What* is it about women in Disney animated movies you want to know? Without specifying, it will be very hard to answer the question. There must be a certain aspect about them you want to study, right? If not, your question remains far too broad to do any focused study. Also remember this domain has already been studied a lot, so for your study to be relevant, you will need a perspectve that hasn't been used yet.

This is late, but thanks pap64 for trying to help Cinderella out!

I agree with so much you said, including finding it weird that Cinderella's picked on the most.

Lately, as part of my thinking for my big post about Cinderella (yea um...I got kinda sad for a while about robots so, uh, we'll see when I ever finish that post) that maybe the thing is, in the original tales, Snow White isn't forced to be a slave by her stepmother, and never pines for a prince beforehand (but Disney's decision to spark some love between the prince and her awake instead falling for her asleep is a good thing, I think), and the dwarf's kept their house clean so her doing it for them could have been just to keep up with how things had been for them, and then when she's asleep she can't help waiting for a prince to rescue her. Also, with Sleeping Beauty, she couldn't help waiting for a prince to rescue her in her sleep. These girls were under enchantment. Cinderella was alive and capable of helping herself, as they say, but she didn't.

However there's still so many bad things I could say about Snow White and Sleeping Beauty and good things about Cinderella, including things that undo the things I pointed out above. For instance, Snow White and Aurora got into their bad predicaments of their own accord. But that's what people say should happen anyway, that girls should do, do, do, be active, even if it turns out badly. And I can understand that and don't think that's bad myself. And I won't get into it but Cinderella does do things.

Now, what I really would not like to believe is that women hate Cinderella because there are things in her and her story that they see in themselves, and all women, and hate. Self-hate is horrible. I just don't believe that girls hate Cinderella because Cinderella has some things they have that they hate. I believe not all girls have to have any aspect from Cinderella, except the fact she's a girl. I just won't believe that girls hate Cinderella because they hate the fact they cry or something.

But I agree with most of what else you have said. I think that is so good to do for girls, let them do what they want, and teach them and show them lots of things and other options, and try to get them to try a lot of things, but never force them to do/like something, or not do/like something. And that last quote is a good quote.